Ability. On the previous episode of talk to aljazeera we spoke to even barlow the founder of a South African based private army heres what he told us. The operation were going to were going to 3 phases the 1st phase was to actually cut a dividing line across northeastern nigeria and isolate about problem into 2 defined areas we were not allowed to finish because it came at a time when governments were in the process of changing president jonathans government possibly so the entire boko haram contract if we called it that almost as a last gasp in order to regain popularity the incoming president president karzai was heavily supported by a Foreign Government and one of the 1st missions was to terminate our contract could you name that progovernment yes we were told it was the united states. Now heres part 2 of our conversation with even part. I. Lets talk more about money this is the only thing that would get you to accept a contract and what jobs you have turned down 1st of all lets start with what weve turned down im not going to go through the whole list but i will take you back to a country which was known as zaire known as the democratic republic of congo where a previous president asked us to get involved in assassinating one of his ministers who was that president that was president mobutu he wanted his minister says and i hated because the minister was caught stealing money you know were not in the business of carrying out assassinations on behalf of governments we will go in to help a government thats in a conflict situation and that is actually given up hope when in fact we are the last people they turn to. And sometimes it can be too late to actually help that government. I think the the 2nd part of that question is were approached by governments we dont go and told governments that they must give us a contract but we work in an area now where the Playing Field is very unlevel and i say im level because governments have to pay us where is a lot of the Foreign Companies that come in are sponsored by their host government so it costs the government nothing so the coin is flipped to either pay the South Africans or the South African Company to come in or to take whats offered for free invariably they take whats offered for free and you believe that its free no of course not theres always an exchange theres always a string attached some way. And that string could be resources influence accept or. We are still in africa but was another protagonist the russian that there have been reports that it has cologne you wants a Pioneer Company executive outcomes Business Model in angola and said early on in securing their paychecks by way of mining concessions is this your Business Model i think lets go back to the so called mining concessions that was. A story sucked out of their thumbs by the sprit 994. 00 south African Military intelligence i have the Intelligence Reports marked secret claiming that we are being paid in oil and diamonds. And ive never been able to understand how men would work for a barrel of oil a day or a month or a week. We need funds money to sustain ourselves we need to be able to pay for medical expenses we need to be able to feed our men and we cannot do that on oil and diamonds so they just be very honest and straightforward about that that is a lie and the paper that part of it published that very interesting louis. Took it from the old south African Military Intelligence Report which tells me that someway someone is feeding them this information in order to make it real or just perpetuating lies so as far as that media outlet is concerned i regard them with the contempt they deserve secondly Many Companies of try to clone executive outcomes not only the Russian Company companies in the west of trying to clone executive outcomes any of the admitted to that. The irony is that a soon is the Russian Company came in suddenly they were the ones that cloned the company and that story started as well in the media and in the Mainstream Media system which claim that i was actually responsible for helping them to establish wagner so you know when it comes to companies such as that and stories such as that myself the state got involved in helping to establish wagner. Just a piece of fake news that actually any normal sensible person will will discard with a contempt that is coming to mozambique. These people came into mozambique not understanding the conflict not understanding the origins of the conflict not understanding the operational environment not understanding the area of operations not even understanding the people in the culture. And rushed in and thats not how you contain a conflict in africa if arrogance and overconfidence become the Foundation Upon which you operate you are going to get hurt in a previous single interview you said and let me quote you there are certain key mcs that enjoy the privileges of their own states we are not and that the cold reports say. The vodka is one of those companies that uses russian army and Navy Transport facilities and sometimes the combatants fight side by side with the russian army. Does that represent unfair competition to your company well of course its unfair competition if you regard it is that. You know western pm sees or russian even chinese that are operating on this continent make use of their National Armed forces many of them well most of them are actually paid by their host governments we do not have that luxury we do not have a government that supports us in terms of a host government so what we have to go and try and secure for the company we have to do. In such a way that the government is willing to pay us and as i said earlier the opposite side is they believe theyre getting something for free which theyre not getting for free but those are choices governments make but it does actually minded the waters substantially because of the way a lot of these people have behaved in africa and of actually got involved in criminal activities but ironically the media chooses to always focus on executive outcomes and step companies that have been successful and those that commit crimes on this continent or ignored they never written about the fact that they supported by their own governments is never mentioned and i actually find that a little bit hypocritical because what it does say to me is that as long as africa is in a state of conflict a lot of people are very happy because theyre making their money out of it do you think that is going to be kind of a game changer in the camp and well i dont think so unless they start learning lessons very very quickly. I think what the casualties that wagner suffered and dont get me wrong i do not rejoice when any of the casualties in was in mozambique i dont rejoice when any people are killed of a private military company or a National Force but theyre going to certainly have to up their game and start realizing that this is not europe that operating in or the middle east its a very different continent look what happened to that. Progressing once progressing and relaxed country like muslim baek i mean it was stable progressing and peaceful why such influx of the mcs ironically they discovered oil and gas. It doesnt take Rocket Science to figure out that any country that discovers oil and gas is suddenly going to find themselves under Severe Threat from many quarters as people try to claim that oil and gas for themselves we see my. Big shortly after the oil and gas discovery was announced a previous Liberation Movement known as room norma suddenly reappeared with new equipment and new uniforms where did they get that from. So you can look at any country where you think that from well we can only speculate on that i dont have the proof of that but it doesnt take Rocket Science to figure out who was up there when the oil and gas was discovered have a look at a country such as a bob way which does not have oil and gas no one is interested in it look at a country such as the d r c which is rich in minerals everybody has an interest in a country such as nigeria that has oil everyone is interested in so you know the resources that countries have although it ought to be a blessing is in many cases because for those countries would like to listen to your take on that the earth see whats happening in the r. C. And them and ask oh i think 1st of all if you really look at the d r c and the amount of money thats been put into it to in this conflict i dont think its been very well spent and i need to point out that the un has always been very critical of the companies that i have cheated. Perhaps its because the u. N. Doesnt like the conflicts to end. Number one number 2 i would like to say that the un has had a perfect opportunity to in the conflicts but this hasnt happened. And i really need to understand in my mind why they have not been able to in these conflicts east india see is a mineral rich area but it is also become a haven for religious and criminal inspired terrorist groups Liberation Movements whatever you want to call them and yet the un has done nothing however the un has actually said to me watched people being slaughtered do not go on to the rescue and i find as any force claiming to be there to ensure peace i think these actions are despicable. I cannot understand how people can claim that they want to secure peace and bring about peace when they watch people being slaughtered and people cannot tell me that the area is too big to control that is absolute nonsense and if people say that they are really trying to cover their own inability to do their jobs. Maybe its because of the different nature of the 2 jobs your job your companys shop and the job of the United Nations peacekeeping troops because they are out there to keep the peace which is nonexistent your mission sometimes is to enforce peace. I hear your argument. However how do you keep peace between 2 warring countries why hasnt the un intervene between general halftimes people and the government in tripoli why havent they intervened in syria if they so concerned with keeping peace. And do not get me wrong im not discounting the u. N. As an organization but im saying there are elements in it that are certainly not doing their jobs how can you claim to be peacekeepers if you cant keep peace so to me it is just a little bit of a twist on whats happening in there that conflict could have been ended a long time ago but i think that these both domestic and international will lacking because there are Many Companies that are currently in the d. N. C. Exploiting those Mineral Resources illegally for their own benefit. And under the watchful gaze of the un weve seen this happen time and time again however the un will target us and single us out yet they hire contractors they make use of pm seize to clear mines to help move logistics except or but no one talks about that and in that case it tells me that there is actually a large amount of hypocrisy going on here lets expand on this you always say let me quote you on this the m. C. S. Are more efficient and much less costly in bringing conflicts to an end in comparison to the United Nations peacekeeping troops in light of the u. N. Convention that bans mostly activities dont you think that ties in conflicts can work as a one way train weve weve never advertised or promoted the idea of privatizing conflict. When i have said is that the import of pm sees into a conflict as long as you are part of that National Military can actually end the conflict quicker and cheaper than what the United Nations or others can do and i would like to take you back to the genocide in rwanda the u. N. Did contact us no matter how much they deny it they called us from geneva and asked if we could intervene. We submitted a strategy that strategy was developed when did that happen this was in 199495 i cannot remember the exact dates of the genocide it was submitted to the un the un came back and said that we have to procure all of the equipment that we would need which included the vehicles the air transport the medical support the weapons the ammunition the uniforms except the exception the figure came to one 100000000. 00 if i recall correctly for a 6 month period because that was what we were asked for. It was declined because it was too expensive the u. N. Instead. Trying to do it themselves that cost 150000000. 00 for 6 months and the genocide actually occurred so you know to me it is theres a very clear distinction between cost efficiency and just spending money we have never wasted our governments money and they have never told us we are wasting their money and we never go into a conflict with our only quip meant we make use of a government secret mint so you know the stories that that is propagated in the media that we come with helicopters and tanks and and heavy equipment all lies those are all. I kind of swear on camera but but its rubbish we make use of what the government hands certain critical equipment we will ask him to procure but we dont procure it because its that governments equipment but yes we have been much cheaper than what the un has been and probably will ever be and till someone fixes the department of peacekeeping in light of this do you think theres a need there well need to even though shape the convention and you convention that would regulate the e. M. C. Industry shes in the last 3 and in order to put more restrictions to stop the wyly violations attributed to some of these car companies. Lets go back to south africa there was a more promulgated. To actually control private military contractors operating outside of the country. I think south africa found itself in a unique position into just going to independence it had become or democracy rather. And it suddenly felt that it owed this to africa to prevent people running around causing conflict and maim across the continent we actually contributed to that bowl that was finally passed in parliament for the simple reason that Many Companies set themselves up claiming to be executive outcomes all illegally or trying to get contracts under our name. We were one of the very 1st companies that were actually awarded a contract to operate or license to operate by the South African government the media ever discounted that and i was told its not in the publics interest to know that so if its not in the publics interest to know that that we actually have a license to operate. Why do we then get a license to operate while within subjected to continue a lies and disinformation about the company and why do we actually have to put up with it thats the one side of the coin the other side of the coin is that this industry has given birth to many people that are nothing other then chances they will take whatever chance they have they will deceive governments in order to secure contracts and fortunately though they deception leads to the loss of life on this continent and the list africa puts a stop to it its not going to end but to stop it governments need to develop a very strong and decisive political world is the reason why the same year you have yourself slices in south africa you decide to solve your company well 1st of all i left executive outcomes because ive been targeted for assassination several times in south africa ive become exhausted from having to fight a battle against a street in a foreign country as well as the media the south African Department of Foreign Affairs certain private interests that we hold with rebel movements as well as south African Military intelligence and all of this was being fought in the media against us all the other actions were put in place to try and stop us as i say me being assassinated by lift executive outcomes because i was exhausted i become mentally and physically exhausted fighting this on a day to day to day basis and how do you defend yourself against continual lies you cannot that said that. The closure of executive outcomes happened after i left the company i had left the company and closed down approximately 6 months after i left and the reason it closed down is something that they can best explain the main 2 i gave the company. But i was told that they were several arguments amongst themselves about the future of the company and who would get what and governments didnt want to talk to them if i wasnt day so i wasnt prepared to go back and just put myself through the same actions of having to fight the lies and deception of the media anymore in spite of the United Nations convention banning the mercenary activities we know that the International Organization hired someone. To do some jobs could you give us some examples and why would you think that the United Nations would have such a Convention Center around and Hire Companies like yours i dont speak on behalf of the year in what i can say is that when we were in sierra leone we assisted the World Food Program to safely deliver food to people in isolated areas at that stage were good enough for the u. N. More recently theyve been Contracting Companies that provide. The services of logistics to them oftentimes medical support the clearing of land mines accept so i dont understand what the whole argument is a. Private military companies would not be necessary if National Armies and the United Nations were able to actually fulfill their mandate so i dont think the world should play the blame before us they should go and look at why we exist. Did the African Union at any point used your expertise know the African Union has not made use of our services because its it comprises government organizations however i have been a speaker at African Union conferences especially in relation to the establishment of whats known as the African Standby force. In which i was asked to deliver my opinion as to what could make a stand by force work or not work. You company step claims to have been operating in africa in asia in the middle east could you give us some examples of how these operations we worked in south america we worked in indonesia. We were asked to go to saudi arabia after the message of the pogroms that taken place we lived with the Saudi National guard and gave our input and obviously weve worked extensively across africa so you trained saudi Saudi Security on the list to keep security for the balkans no we were asked to write a strategy for them and that is what we did we did not involve ourselves in the training because their training was done by Foreign Armed forces not private companies. Did you at any time execute an order order as a nation during the time you hit it c. C. P. The Civil Corporation piro executive outcome or step. Ive never done that and its always interesting to me that this question is asked to be was a very covert wing of the south African Special forces. In the region i was in did not make up our own orders we operated with orders from our hierarchy that were given to us. Any order that i received where i was in c. C. B. Or in the armed forces never had to do with assassinating people and secondly within executive outcomes or step anyone who says that is really looking for a fake story these types of instructions have never been issued to anyone but you have been ordered for to execute as a summation of the review you refused yes i have been there was an instance when i was in c c b where i was tossed on a mission and i simply refused the mission because the person or persons in my opinion did not constitute a threat to the republic of south africa so im not going to go out and murder someone in order to take revenge on behalf of a politician or someone else and how did it in the. Ultimate we lost my job so you sacrifice your job for not executing the water well i think we became politically expedient but it was a good way to get rid of me yes. In the middle of all this with these wars against you and your Companies Recently you were appointed by the government of south tommy as honorary consul how did that happen and what are your plans with the new job as a diplomat. Well 1st of all so to my approached me i did not approach that government i was also advised that several governments had discussed me as a potential option for their consul in south africa it was agreed i should get it for sector fice and service to africa my job is to try and explain the interests of south to my in south africa and vice a versa and to that extent a lot of work is really being done that were 5 about south africa and south america. Most of all thank you very much for talking to on this trip thank you very much for your. Frank assessments the one good thing about these bushfires usage really well going to the politics of Climate Change informed opinions economy i think is actually whats keeping donald trump afloat right now critical debate sequel on those 2 school board lawyers on a bogus argument is astonishingly patronize a indepth analysis of the days headlines this is the beginning of a new iraq of a new conscious and aware youth about still against an ethnic sectarian kota inside story on aljazeera. For the congolese the journey to work all aboard means unimaginable hardship i prefer to live no because the i got the call can truth chancing life and limb on a dangerous journey through the jungle i fell onto the rails for i merely died. Our children go to school and live because on the train risking it all the democratic republic of congo on aljazeera. Centuries it was the remoteness of brazils indigenous communities the protected them from the rapacious outside walls now its what shields those who are encroaching on protected Indigenous Territory starting fires and threatening the residents of the county when i had the 1st contact with the outside walls in 1978 and what are you. Talking her native language translated for us into portuguese remembers it well she says they brought diseases that decimated a community but that me a couple years we had a lot of land and we lived peacefully we lived with fear that are very few of us the invaders are coming closer its difficult to gauge why a place so remote so tranquil so
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