Is iraq becoming a proxy battleground between washington and tehran angry protesters stormed the u. S. Embassy in baghdad accepting a u. S. Attack in the arabian backed our military so how can this latest tension we can take this instance like story. And all their warm welcome to the program im Julie Macdonald dramatic scenes that the u. S. Embassy in iraq supports as a members of the iranian backed Popular Mobilization forces surrounding the u. S. Embassy compound in iraqs capital baghdad their demand an end to American Intervention in the country they threw rocks and set fire as ive cited security personnel responded with tear gas the u. S. Then deployed marines to secure the compound before the protest as leaders told them to withdraw President Donald Trump blames iran for the demonstrations but tehrans denying being involved at all as widespread anger over recent u. S. Airstrikes against the has blob brigades in syria and in iraq u. S. Says they were launched in retaliation to a rocket attack on friday near kirk cook that killed an american civilian contracts oh well well talk to our guests shortly but 1st our reporters Simona Fulton brings us up to date we are in front of the checkpoint that leads towards the u. S. Embassy behind us and this is not a 2nd day where hundreds of fighters and supporters from the Popular Mobilization forces have besieged the u. S. Embassy there have once again set fires to the outer gates perhaps you can see the smoke rising behind me and for now they are refusing to leave were seeing increased security presence today with Iraqi Security forces actually manning the checkpoint which was not the case yesterday when these crowds were allowed to march on the u. S. And this is. Theyre still allowing them to go through and for now these crowds are refusing to leave the u. S. Guards inside the u. S. Embassy are deploying tear gas to try to manage these crowds and as we understand the goshi actions are currently ongoing between the leadership of the Popular Mobilization forces and the government to see whether these crowds are willing to leave of course the Prime Minister either of them he has called on them to depart yesterday but they seem to have simply ignored his orders they have camped out overnight they have put up flags on top of the fence of the u. S. Embassy and it remains to be seen whether they will withdraw today of course any withdrawal of these crowds here would have to happen on the terms of the call for the mobilization of forces their very presence here was a very powerful show of this violence a sign that theyre capable of marching on the u. S. Embassy and it is clear that the bulk of the Mobilization Forces and their leaders are the ones currently calling the shots on whether or not to stand up here at the u. S. Embassy will seem on a full team aljazeera or inside story. So lets bring in our guests awkward rushdie is senior Foreign Policy advisor for the speaker of the Iraqi Parliament he joins us from baghdad Mohammad Marandi is head of north american studies at the university of tehran and he joins us from tehran a smile also donnie is a former Iraqi Defense attached to the United States and retired iraq Brigadier General who joins us by skype from manassas in the u. S. State of virginia gentlemen a very warm welcome to you all Ahmed Rushdie if i can start with you these are frankly extraordinary pictures that we see i have to baghdad from your perspective what story do they tell the world. Well i tell the world d so many messages tell the world is that there is a real problem between washington and tar on top of the world is that there are a real problem inside the inside the local politics in iraq and there is a real miss understanding between the Iraqi Government and the leaders and also its a a very Important Message is that still iraqis those that see all those images not proof profitable for their demands its not accurate for their demands which is rising up the other way of their demands its. Actually making reforms about the whole political system and also their demand there their real ordinary demands like electricity Like Services like lowering the unemployment and so on so all these messages have been seen for the last 2 days and let us not forget its it gives a bad messages about iraq itself in a front in front of the world Mohammad Marandi from your perspective what stories of these pictures tell any weve heard the reaction from iran calling the u. S. Attempt to blame it for the protests audacious. I think the biggest problem that the United States has and its not only limited to iraq is its arrogance the fact that americans can buy iraqi forces and murder thousands of iraqi soldiers heroes who are fighting against isis along the border with syria some of them inside syria which was very far away from the base where the americans claim that they were involved in some attack and again even that is problematic the americans are both a judge jury and executioner so the americans show no regard for iraqi sovereignty they attack iraq the war heroes and they have no respect for the Iraqi Government and that is the story of the United States presence in this part of the world for many decades now and for the americans to call these people or pundits to say iranian back to you right these are iraqis with iraqi id cards and they are the ones to push back isis the very same isis that the United States and its allies helped to create when we look at the but i dont know if you know Mohammad Marandi on that but only that you know us him and that on that note we have heard from people at the embassy and theyre saying that they are completely separate to the peaceful protest movement which has never gone to the embassy they say theyre completely separate that the people at the embassy belong to the p. M. S. And they have a completely different agenda that as rushdie pointed out actually detracts from what they want which is wholesale political change. But we have to keep in mind that the whole problem that iraq has has been caused by the United States the United States created the monster Saddam Hussein they gave him chemical weapons to use against even his own people they then attacked the country then they impose sanctions on the country where over a 1000000 people died then they invaded the country they destroyed the countrys infrastructure and occupied it and even now the u. S. Embassy is the size of a country this is not the embassy of a friend of iraq this is the embassy of an occupier so when the United States tries to prevent iran in iraq from hammy having normal ties when it manipulates the country when the United States and others help support extremist groups in syria and then they spill over into iraq the United States is not in a position to to complain about iran or iraq or anyone else and what goes on near the embassy no one in iran is going to believe the american narrative the fact is that iraqis many iraqis are outraged that the americans murdered the soldiers that belong to the Iraqi Armed Forces that helped save the country and that these people who are at the embassy their brothers in arms were murdered by the americans so for somehow if they say they are iranian backed killing them makes it more acceptable in the eyes of western pundits and think tanks they were pretty pleased when they bought western think tanks were pretty please when the americans bombed these people and killed these people now as i said they were nowhere near the base that the americans claim that this group was behind ismail also danny let me bring you in on this is american arrogance as our guest pointed out there parts of this picture i mean how much of a blow is it for the americans to have these pictures of their embassy frankly under siege beamed around the world i mean doesnt it show weakness in in Foreign Policy or strategy if there is one. Who well i think your guest in the horizon has meant his own perspective from his own side. He is blaming america course that is the official iranian. Point of view but as an iraqi and have served in iraq and iraqi army for for almost 30 years. You know the picture should be more compressed comprehensive i think iran and iraq are iran and america are you know contributing negatively in and reaching this point unfortunately those countries are having their own complex and they would like to fight each other on iraqi soil and this is the fact. Unfortunately hes talking about United States is not respecting. The iraqi sovereignty theory they are rocket government and and i are you really would like him to see the picture in iraq he perspective. Rather than his own perspective iraqis are also fed up of prom the iranian proxies who are you know controlling on ivory thing and in your report just now we have heard that the Iraqi Government is negotiating with the shabby with him up in. The end use Popular Mobilization forces in order to. Them to leave leave their positions in front of the embassy i am wondering where is your on with accept their forces and with their you know official fatigue and uniform to protest against any diplomatic. Of our Foreign Mission to iran i dont think should they would be accepting this you know so the government is negotiating and security at part this which is belong to it and should are done is done to leave the place that without any condition this is this is the way if you respect the iraqi civilian a t and the spec the iraqi you know Iraqi Government are unfortunately it is it is it is very sadly to say that these these forces i dont say that these forces are not sacrificing i am you know admire i am respecting their circular file says and theyre fighting against diet and against isis and they have defeated their isis defeated isis by their blog and their lives and not let us stop here just for a 2nd as i come back to monitor andaz to get a response to that in a 2nd but i want to bring in our my trusty hes obviously in baghdad so can you give us the perspective from where you are then is iraq becoming a proxy battleground between washington and tehran and is that the feeling of the iraqi people are at least some of them. All actually lets talk lets be frank on the on the 20 is that there are about 11 attacks done by the pm or done by qatar possible on the american bases the last one killed about one contractor and when the dozens of 1st soldiers and as a reflects whats happened is that theyre americans attack hezbollah brigades in their camps and let us not forget also asper the this critter of defense told our that i believe the 4 hours before the attack is that we are fed up we should make their tax so it looks like in a way in another its an awfully shell attack and either our demand is sad that said i talk to our supporters that just wait let me talk to the people that are settling something or on that way asked for said not the decision had been made so its all show you is that the Iraqi Government until now didnt make a real decision about whats happening now its even didnt get to be a mediator between the 2. Parts no according to that it show you also all the reflects is of the people specially now we have to kind of the most traitors we have at the demonstrators and now we have the other demonstrators which is run by qatar because well against the American Embassy and those are the where there are demonstrators against what what whats happened in iraq and against the corruption and bad services and so on but all of all those things i think it will reflect on the political process in iraq it will be reflected on about choosing the next Prime Minister about the early elections about how to deal with the situation from iraq is proper the prospect about whats going to happen next so and let us not forget also all is that. Maybe it just maybe it pushed the truth of Prime Minister in a way or another that we need someone whos balancing the relationship between the horizon and washington and its frankly speaking if this is the reality this is the geopolitics working on a new we need as iraqis we need someone who can handle the situation for my from my point of view i think that our demand it cannot run such a delicate relationship we need someone who can move in between he is willing to settle the issue between tehran and washington hes willing to settle some economical and geopolitical issues with the iran and let us not forget they are not our neighbors and they will serve our neighbors so its still there are so many relationship between baghdad and tyrant on many aspects politically economically even socially so what and also this man who should be also has a very good connection with the International Community because we all know iraq for no sure speaking has many problems has debts about 134000000000. 00 and also iraq is the International Community for rebuilding issues for rebuilding and reconstruction of the destroyed areas and also to fight terrorism so all those problems need to be settled by the iraqis rather than proxy iran proxy america Mohammad Marandi it is one of the difficulties here that there are 2 very different opposing stories so the u. S. Wants to tell the story that irans asserting a vice like grip over iraq and that essentially iraqs become if you like an Iranian College colony whilst iran maintains actually its a partner to iraq it wants to help rebuild and supports its neighbor and yet parts of the criticism were hearing today is that this p. M. S. Protest at the embassy is simply an attempt to draw attention away from the Peaceful Protesters. I think its pretty clear no matter how one frames it that the americans have repeatedly bombed the Popular Mobilisation groups and they murdered many of them and the accusations that they have attacked american positions are simply american accusations there is theres been no court of law in iraq that has proven this and if the Popular Mobilisation supporters and their people do not leave the gates of the u. S. Embassy. During the goetia asians with the Iraqi Government possibly its because its linked to the fact that the Iraqi Government told americans not to bomb them and they did so theyre not going to sit probably theyre vulnerable being be prepared to be bombed again to have their children murdered to have their relatives murdered to have themselves maimed and killed because they Iraqi Government is standing we confronted the United States obviously as human beings they have the right to feel in secure in their own country so that if the Iraqi Government was in control of u. S. Forces i dont think this situation would occur and on the other hand it is not iran that is trying to drive the United States out of iraq after all iran has no troops in iraq iran is working with the government that have was elected through a elections and the United States keeps sanctioning sanctioning people and governments that even do business with iran so its the americans have military bases its the americans who are trying to prevent the normalization of trade the american sodium rocky media day and night is carrying a cycle of carrying out psychological warfare trying to turn the iraqi population against iran then you have thousands of n. G. O. S literally thousands funded by the United States in iraq active and then despite of that the United States behaves with impunity murders people takes responsibility and they expect people not to go. And protest the problem is the u. S. Occupation and its not just limited to iraq look at yemen look at libya look at what they did in syria on it let me stop you there just because i want to bring in a smell saddam to respond to this does the u. S. Have to conclude on the basis of what mohammad just said that its mission in iraq has failed it appears to have no clear vision or strategy does it have to conclude that it spent all this money and failed. Frankly i would say that you know i say its part of what is going on i didnt deny anything but when youre in this to gate the United States of course United States is is going to react so i think iran our iran backed you know forces in iraq instigated the United States surely act so if iranian got what they have wanted in fact a from from that reaction in fact thats is the Golden Moment for them to condemn what has done by american but. And the other hand we are turning a blind eye for what is going on in the other side i think what is going on that iraq iraqi you know state is not a state is a project to say its not me who is saying that iraq is a fragile state and why its iraq is a fragile a state because of the Political Parties who ons are going to groups not only the shia but maybe also the kurds who are having. They dont want to state the floor they dont want a state that. They dont want to state is a powerful death with control on each and everything they want to be above the lol and thats really is pushing you from a foreign world Iraqi Government is is is in this situation or in the position they cannot you know react they cannot do anything towards any think that its happening and i would ill shoot this question out i ask and yes with the Iraqi Government didnt or didnt Iraqi Government specked it what is going on what will happen after the bumping of the position of to thought as well off in syria and iraq of course that there should be some security sense to anticipate what will be going there there were many threats from the leadership of the how you xabi to you know to make some reaction against american show why do you Iraqi Government did not force the protection against the american you know which are obviously the American Embassy in baghdad and the green zone which is more fortified its not let me say not just for a 2nd because i want to concentrate also on what the iraqi people seem to want so what we are. Youre talking about is a country that appears to have numerous layers of influence which ever way you look at it whichever side you are on the us names iran iran blames the us but the Peaceful Protesters they want basic services and Good Governance how do they get that on the ground in such a complex environment. Well honestly speaking i dont think such a situation going to help. To reform anything but i think the 1st step now to choose a Prime Minister that has a real background about whats happening more or less outside the political blocs and more or less has a very good knowledge about to get a very good relations with all the partners here in iraq which means that to her on 1 washington and maybe even the gulf states and turkey on that way this man or this Prime Minister or this cabinet can start to make some sort of a message is sent some sort of a mass or just a few more reforming of the economy to the International Community and said ok we can start up a little bit of investment even with whats happening now just because the the new Prime Minister is accepted by the demonstrators special and this out he will be accepted by the demonstrators in the south so you can imagine its a start point but that does not mean that everything going to be peaceful and evidently going to be as its supposed to be calm as it is why because this Prime Minister has the supposed to be has the duty to talk also to the political blocs who should share power with him and it will end it and his power will end with the early elections which maybe it can be on a 6 month or maybe one year now all those images that i am saying is actually in the mindset of the iraqis now they are actually dreaming about it now whats happening now is not helping them whats happening now is actually making the situation very complex and eventually it show you that we have a weak Iraqi Government we have a Weak Parliament and also we have a weak political process so the faith the iraqis. Faith on the political process is going down so thats why i am saying is that sending those drug rough edges to the iraqis to the regional countries to the world is making a bad picture about iraq and i think thats why you are asking this question is that what hope that iraqis will have with this situation thank you gentlemen for your fascinating thoughts on this subject area well a big thank you to all our guests up with rushdie Mohammad Marandi and his smile so danny and thank you of course to you for watching you can see the program again any time but visiting our website aljazeera dot com and for further discussion go to our Facebook Page thats facebook dot com forward slash inside story you can also join the conversation on twitter our handle is at a. J. Inside story from egypt in tunnels and the whole tell you about. Almost the last time you were out on the streets protesting whether on line you feel the weight of the system going to walk through each and every leg or layer further and further into the jail or if you join us on say entry has to start from day one whether again you and attention or youre incarcerated this is a dialogue everyone has a voice so far there are studies that support our coverage will be varying accounts but i want to give people the reason for it join the global conversation on aljazeera with its leaders in jail agree clear nazi party when eyes on the lives mothers and daughters of the imprisoned leaders to represent them meet the women behind the fierce some rightwing nationalist party going to do not start when you say im not to do you know what exactly does it mean it means national not used golden door as a witness documentary on aljazeera do you support the mostest. When the news breaks today the current government has lost the trust of the people by god to anything because the protesters are against it when people are to be cut by thought word will represent the law of dogs for opponents of rex its drawing from the conservative aljazeera has teams on the ground it now hopes the meeting in paris will push politicians to create a competent and credible government to bring new moon documentaries and life moves on air and online. This is al jazeera. 11 doha everyone on come on santa maria and this is the news hour from aljazeera defiant departure iraqs Popular Mobilization forces were treat from the u. S. Embassy after a 2 day siege. Also in the news protesters demanding more democracy in hong kong ring and then you get in defiance and promise to keep up the pressure. And we speak to the daughter of angolas former lead