Soften your stance so will take offensive measures the warning from north korea to the u. S. Over stalled Nuclear Talks how will washington respond and what is the new approach from the un says its considering this is inside story. Hello welcome to the show im sam is a than north Korean Leader kim jong un has called for positive and offensive measures to protect the countrys security and sovereignty thats ahead of a year end deadline he sent for the u. S. To soften its position on stalled talks aimed at pyongyang dismantling its nuclear and missile programs kim also warned during a Ruling Workers Party meeting that he may take an unspecified new path if washington fails to act u. S. Military commanders say that could include testing a long range missile something north korea hasnt done since 2017 from mcbride explains. North Korean Leader kim jong un has over the past couple of days being chairing a special Plenary Session of the Workers Party of korea there have not been too many details coming out about whats been discussed apart from these vague references to new offensive measures being considered but of course this is all the build up to kim jong uns new years day address when he normally lays out the way ahead for his country for the coming year and of course it may give us an indication of what he means by this new path that he has threatened to take if the United States did not come back with concessions in the denuclearization talks by the end of 2019 which of course they havent there are fears that north korea may go back to the testing of long range Intercontinental Ballistic Missiles that it was in bucktown in 2017 thats in spite of warnings from the u. S. Not to embark on such provocations but of course north korea did warn of some kind of christmas surprise which was taken as meaning that they were planning some kind of launch over the Christmas Period well christmas has come and gone and theres not been a launch of a longer range missile so there is a speculation here that maybe the new path is not to go back to the long range missile testing of 2 years ago maybe to continue short range missile testing so as not to in danger the possibility of some agreement with the u. S. In the future but more importantly perhaps not to undo all of the work with north koreas neighbors in particular the russians and the chinese who have been calling for some relief from sanctions for north korea Robert Bright aljazeera the inside story. Lets bring in our gay. Stan we have joining us victor gallies Vice President of the center for china and globalization think tank and joins us by skype from beijing im very lank of director at the end pain news an online news source focused on north korea he joins us from seoul in south korea and richard vides is a security analyst that the global Risk Consultancy we can extract he joins us from washington d. C. Welcome to all of you if i could start perhaps with the victor in beijing so by calling for offensive measures is kim jong un basically signaling hes given up hope of the u. S. Softening its position well 1st of all we should be satisfied that there has being substantive progress on the Korean Peninsula over the past 18 months or so and this should give us encourage went and work hard for her 1st arrest has there been do you think victor a lot of the analysts are saying theres been a lot of talk but not a lot of actual substance of movement on any of the denuclearize a well the 1st of all the u. S. Side and that has been no major massive military exercise with our all k. As d. P. Our care has demanded it and certainly on the d. P. R. K. Side theres been no testing of the atomic weapons or Hydrogen Weapons or long range i. C. B. M. For example this should the reasons for us to be happy about how involve the other hand highly theres generally a good leak about it isnt that basically we talk about is there hasnt been any further escalation that doesnt mean theres actually been progress in the new cries nation does it not denuclearize asia remains an unfulfilled goal and its still very much challenging on the other hand we also need to put this into perspective that is before this round of diplomatic hurry. The. Situation on the Korean Peninsula was almost on the brink of a major war which would damage lots of interest not only d p r k r ok but also neighboring countries including the injures of the United States on the other hand i think the way the United States is dealing with it the nigra ization on the Korean Peninsula may be fundamentally flawed no country our no head of state should take this daunting challenge as a walk in the woods nothing is easy in dealing with that the p. R. Case denuclearization and i think it will require a lot of effort to poor resources of all the major countries including china and russia in particular in order to really achieve the deal grows asian and this denuclearization remains as daunting as it was 15 or 18 months ago but i think through to promise and dialogue we should have greater hope in the future confrontation threatening bluffing it will achieve a counterproductive goal or a Korean Peninsula me take some of those points youve raised to washington d. C. Where Richard White says and victor didnt spell out the trumpet ministration there but i suspect he had that in mind when he said no world leader should take it as a walk in the woods when it comes to negotiating the deal you cry zation of north korea is there a sense do you think richard or is it justified to have a sense that perhaps the trumpet administration underestimated the task. I wouldnt say that i mean the people who have been presenting the administrations logic have said well you know its we theres no good solution here with we launch a military strike we couldnt happen a war if we do nothing war end up with at least north korea with Nuclear Weapons perhaps japan south korea and other countries we can rely on sanctions and that i would add that has actually been one success of the administrations policy the sanctions have increased and including those imposed by china and russia the one unusual step President Trump took which was against the recommendation of the many think tank people dont let yourselves on the front do you mind interrupt you too richard but how is that a sign of the success of the trumpet ministrations policy simply slapping on more sanctions success as you see. Yes because in the past the sanctions on north korea were weak and porous there are a lot of complaints about whether china or russia were fully implementing them and in so far as there wasnt a lot of pressure on north korea to come to the negotiating table that was giving them a reason to just go ahead and develop their nuclear and missile potential when in the. U. S. Library isnt that exactly the scenario were looking at now even with more sanctions on the table it seems the north Korean Leader is signaling he might be resuming some of those activities weighs the success. If youre looking ahead then i mean i would say that theres been success in the past 2 years victor gave a couple reasons im given a couple more you are right there are we are now looking at a path at every question we could see resumption of missile and Nuclear Tests resumption of large scale u. S. Military exercises in the region i remember a couple years ago terrible it was every time north korea launched a long range missile the bait in washington as well should we attack them now or can we wait a bit so it could very well go poorly and thats why im glad were talking about how to avoid that now all right so least one thing it seems both of our guests in beijing and washington d. C. Have in common is lets just be thankful things havent escalated into a war alive lets bring in andrei from seoul and asked the question. Is that enough do you think at this point yes its enough because they would like to be quite frank didnt create is asian is not going to happen never i repeat not scott is a Nuclear Power it has been Nuclear Power for 15 years and if you if you korea as long as the king family stays in control of each might easily mean in the us a few 50 years or 70 as the dawn. On the knoll situation going on under the law is that even when. They do that because that is the point of the talks. Yes if you want to know clear ization its not going to happen. Full stop but we have a talks as Still Necessary because its time not to talk about dinnick there is a sion which is not going to happen but about control its not possible to push or blackmail or bribe is it more scary in Decision Makers into surrendering sad endings their Nuclear Weapons because they believe theres good reasons that result Nuclear Weapons they are doomed and theyre probably right. So its a question of life and death the view more compromise but its probably possible visit right combination of incentives of pressure to negotiate some kind of country all deal our goal is not to make it chief and nor new korean or scary if it is not going to happen but over goal is to make a Nuclear North Korea more predictable and less dangerous human to use the word blackmail is north korea being blackmailed by whom. How else can you basically describe sentients its more about its not any kind of morality suggestion and its how states have always dealt these vonda not have built for centuries for me to the idea if you do this i. Punish you or i have you would you block you i would call it blackmail or bribing or i mean its not too polite but they seemed its pretty if you let me take action let me take this points back to washington d. C. Richard what do you make of that that attempting to blackmail north korea is doomed perhaps the u. S. And its allies should be focusing on arms control measures right i would actually use the blackmail term with regard to north korea i think thats what the purpose of all these threats and offense of hints of authentic action are that you know unless you relax the sanctions and make other concessions were going to go ahead and make these tests that aside i disagree that the answer is were never going to seen north career denuclearized i can see scenarios on what you what are current there was some hope that with the new north Korean Leader clearly very concerned about the health of the economy to break out of isolation more distant from china and then the past that there may be openings with him to consider some kind of grand bargain in which north korea you can have those home is a Real Advantage to return for economic. Not presently but you know who knows maybe hell this this war will change in the future i mean there is a widening clear solution what i think will be the solution which is you have reunification of korea into something that looks like big north south korea and that country gives up Nuclear Weapons and get security continues from russia china us and thats how we will solve this problem at some point the problem is they dont know how we get there in the interim so anything that buys us time not sure is bad i mean theyre into and eventually hopefully reach that solution but i just cant say when it may well take decades i wonder how seen by in beijing of course china is one of the few or lost someone allies i think we can say of the democratic republic of north korea peoples republic of korea. Do you think that the thinking in beijing is developing along the lines that we heard talk about that maybe its time to move on from demands of do nuclearization to something else. With due respect i disagree a why because i think denuclearization allat Korean Peninsula must be achieved one way or another thats the ultimate goal and thats the goal set up by the United Nations and a Nuclear Armed d p r k will be a threat to its neighboring countries and i dont think russia or china will have any interest in seeing nuclear arised d p r k continuing sol for many years so i think 1st of all lets agree that the new across asia is a must it must be achieved while way or another secondly we need to really understand why d. P. R. K. Needs a Nuclear Weapon and what forces it into almost a corner to possess and develop the Nuclear Weapon whether there are things which can be done is specially by the United States for example in restructuring its relations with d. P. R. K. And also involving other major countries including china russia which can make d. P. R. K. Feeling more comfortable about its future about its security about for example giving up Nuclear Weapons that is the key that is the granting all nighters that we cannot do that because one more measures should perhaps the u. S. Take all due from the perspective of beijing to make north korea feel more comfortable giving up its Nuclear Weapons and how it should involve china more. 1st of all china has been involved over the past 2 years in the major initiatives in the United States when chairman kim jong il and through to singapore for the summit meeting with President Trump he flew in the air China Special plane for example and when he met with president kim in vietnam he traversed through china by a real way and there are many other reasons but i think the current way of trying to achieve a breakthrough purely between the p r k and the United States in a bilateral way is doomed to failure because d. P. R. K. Will never fundamentally trust the strategic objective of the United States it will always 2nd guess if for example it gives up a Nuclear Weapon whether the United States will pungs up on d. P. R. K. And eliminate the regime killed a leader for example and everything ends up in the disaster in order to make sure right now that has security and so i dont think current can be addressed that thats a more forces werent being well lets let me take that to richard in washington do you agree with that that perhaps this should really be more of a multilateral approach rather than a bilateral one by the trumpet ministry. From think its understood that was going to be the process i mean even russia and china in their peace plan laid out a path of initially you have a station of large scale military activities by north korea and the u. S. Tied with south korea then you have a series of bilateral talks most importantly between the head of north korea and the United States but also involving the heads of russia and china and weve seen that occur in the past here that open and then the next final phase is to move to a multilateral framework and i think thats the administration agrees with that it wouldnt and theyre not enthusiastic about the resuming the previous 6 party talks but there will be some other kind of structure certainly for an enduring Peace Agreement certainly through the u. N. Were still searching for an optimum approach but i think thats understood that and cheating and enduring nuclear free Korean Peninsula is going to require critical support from russia and china as well as the United States japan south korea and perhaps other players bring andre into the discussion the north Korean Leaders talking about suing a new policy what do we think is you know. If you have the full of you have to understand what he wants and he wants to see things if youre so full he wants sentients to be partially 80 ft sentients kind of sections very very tough. No scary year can survive under such a pressure for yes but it can not a chief economic girls and it can survive or only because cheney is a government sometimes in violation of the sanctions regime is provide enough scary the food aid and fuel food it is legal fuel supply is not but channel is doing whats heaven said that. Saw. Needs sanctions to be removed at least partially saw the north korean government of youll be able to resume economic girls because if those few years of the rule of the current north scary indeed or if youre very successful contrary to the common misperception not scary which is a very poor country was growing quite fast so is if your school 2nd goal was to have some of their significant news from as a Nuclear Power because once again all the stalks about denuclearization there have killed it for 20 years ive been laughing at that for 20 years sort of for being able to impolite not going to happen as it is actually not scary of wants to be recognized by the like see india or pakistan or israel as a Nuclear Power and they understand that the president from the have some chances to achieve this goal they wanted to negotiate it they did not succeed so now they will try to follow the usual at it approach they have done it many times in the past if they face a problem they create a crisis. As they try to drive tensions high as the luncheon is science so when you dont the new creating the crisis of. Rhetoric more long range missiles for example. Verbal short range missiles which have been mentioned are not going to walk they have been doing it for last few months americans are ignoring it and they need something that you would be not just by the end medic and demisting audience but the American Voters before the elections this century blackmailing trump everybody is blackmailing everybody in this game. They need something more impressive than just short or Medium Range Missiles what can they do forced satellite launch they can essentially an Intercontinental Ballistic Missile disguised as a satellite they will tell its not military its painted white basically is saved technology but they can claim its set alight peace will settle it then they can have a c. B. S. Test finally they can have a nuclear test but according to what is normal china is deadly against nuclear test probably because they are so much dependent on legal and illegal assistance from china the. Very briefly whatever who we serve i will email a sicilian from china of world chandy shipping a lot of stuff to korea some of this stuff is more some of the shipping is more the violation of the un security or whatever the reason it was only spam of the shipping is a violation. Well he could have if you kept stable for fuel prices and carrying in carry a technically carrier is basically an oscar he is banned from buying a new fuel but fuel thing prices that absolutely stable or if there doesnt fuel come from one or all of those. Grain products moving in the right let lets put pose that question to victor gagne morning and night to the board does is china im sure you have something to say about the suggestion china is violating u. N. Sanctions and shipping fuel this china is china doing that and does it have a vested interest in just keeping the regime at least Strong Enough to achieve not only denuclearization bar some kind of downgrade of the u. S. Presence on the Korean Peninsula is surely also a chinese goal well 1st of all i seen the Chinese Foreign ministry has folks person has repeatedly reaffirmed that china has trickly and faithfully abide by did abided by the United Nations in kohls economic sanctions against the yeah ok and i have no reason to doubt the Chinese ForeignMinistry Statement and according to my personal information china has been very strict in abiding by such you and in polls to economic sanctions secondly china has all the reasons are not all the incentives to abide by the United Nations resolution while about things on here far east of you would probably agree but i dont agree on their arm that yeah ok is a major threat to peace and security in this part of the world and we need to Work Together to achieve denuclearization of d p r k for a better Korean Peninsula or well have to end it there thanks so much to our guests its been a really in gauging discussion lets thank victor and ray and richard. And thank you too for watching you can see the show again any time by visiting our website aljazeera dot com for further discussion head over to our Facebook Page thats facebook dot com forward slash a. J. Inside story can also join the conversation on twitter our handle is an act a. J. Inside story from me sam is a dan and the whole team here for now is good buy. 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As they did draws to a close really look ahead to major stories of 2020 from around the world through a series of indepth special reports. Join us as we assess the Global Impact of what is to come next year. This is al jazeera. Life in doha everyone im Kemal Santa Maria and this is the news hour from aljazeera iraqs prime ministers warning of dangerous consequences of the u. S. Airstrikes in his country and in syria while iran is calling them an act of terrorism also in the news sudan sentences 29. 00 Security Forces to death for torturing and killing a protester. Are none of the top stories from europe including high levels of