Perfect cocktail for street protests expects the Vice President the back door plus cameras cash crunch the competition lining up to take Netflix Crown counting the cost on aljazeera. Imo we could be here in the stream today is co nary. A thing and the last of us there is the shows on the legacy of colonialism wilted digests this cuisine concept of who owns the rights. And since everybody eats anyone can join the conversation tweet us at it a stream or leave a comment on our live chat and you too can be in the stream ringback. I am sure of course am dress and you are in this story. Have you ever looked at the food on your plate i wonder where it came from not just shots of the farms but the very origin of it and the stories it can tell that is topic is a Community Pitch from joe hes a policy analyst a writer and production editor at the elephant thats an Online Knowledge and civic pop form in nairobi kenya. Talk about colonialism into his events are civilizing mission for granted People Project seldom do we have a talk about the simple yet put into it efficient behind community for instance region such for food was a major factor behind the persian conquests subsequently our current food and culture systems still seem to evidence signs of colonial ety in todays world to paraphrase Thomas Sankara if you want to find colonial ity just look at your political. Joining us now to discuss food and colonialism from Johannesburg South africa its when shes a chef and food entrepreneur in Santa Barbara california daniel stone hes the author of the food explorer the true adventures of the globetrotting botanist who transformed what america eats and in doha qatar here jim park enjoyably journalist here at aljazeera english and the hosts of work the system a colon area Exploration Program so we cant talk about food without having to food in the studio so were joined by asked special guest apple pie more pilots are welcome everybody is really good to have you this concept ladies joy heroes in all of colonialism and food and making that connection can you explain what that is for us i think you can look at it in a number of different ways but firstly i think you have to think about but impractical only all of them are going through waves and we have it now how has past colonialist history changed the way we eat food and the way we harvest and the way we distribute. Yeah and i think a lot of it has to do also with the relationship that we share with each other right who has and i think this is a question that were going to explore who has the power to you know determine who gets to eat what and who has access to certain types of resources food isnt just food at the end of the day who tells a story of immigration a politics economy and i think coronary colonialism is a really fascinating space to interrogate these questions so i love that you just said food isnt just food because there are members of our community that completely disagree with you so this person does serve africa who right then food is food leave food out of politics another person even before the show had even started wrote to us on you tube i want to share that comment we were literally just starting the show when this person wrote in colin area colonialism is not a thing its food the stuff that keeps people alive its just made up propaganda so you hear those 2 comments but i want to share someone elses comment someone who believes that is the thing and has a personal story to back that up this is sherman hes a chef himself and heres what he told the stream here to talk about the term colony colonialism we see this every day with an indigenous foods north american native american foods with the use of fried bread and bannock utilizing ingredients i have nothing to do with indigenous cultures but something that has become integrated into a part of our societies as Indigenous Peoples we really push for understanding a deeper sense of indigenous food systems and trying to attain a truer sense of indigenous food sovereignty. So how do you get this one to you because he serves what he calls de colonise meals he prepares meals with no pork beef dairy processed cane sugar or wheat flour because those were ingredients that were introduced from europeans into native diets and are not doing so well necessarily for native how so talk to us about what that term might mean for you the colonialism and d. Colonizing that food. Well for me you cant talk about food and not talk about colonialism or slavery or even trading because thats what influences all our food for instance africa aakrosh okra which is an indigenous plant that grows in africa its found all over the food in america is found in india and it was transported from africa to india by the project. And the somalian traders so again you can speak about food and not bring colonialism because thats how all the places are transported all over the world so if you look at africa for instance its got weve got indigenous ingredients the growth here in africa but those ingredients can be found all over the world because of trading because of slavery because all of all kinds of. Migration that have happened throughout the world and you can look at africa and not see that in spoons i mean you look at the food of the western cape its influence very much by the french englanders who came and brought with them see grapes which are very integral part in western cape could mean those are brought to the take by the french who are going to who came with the dutch in 1642 they broke with the cape malays marry who have influenced that part but we janov africas food so same thing in durban if you go to cater then which is another part of south africa which is the south is is on the coast. The colonialist came with them with slaves from india who worked the sugarcane fields of the durban they brought with the indigenous ingredients that are now grew indigenously in south africa and they become part of the indigenous convened there and they become part of the local and what what when people refer to tradition. No recipient you just know who come up how do you feel mazing is a force like almost every little bit of south africa is in from and spied other places and all the pasta well then im just wondering you was a food historian is this a bad thing is this on the go is it more. I think there are a lot of ways to look at it but i think you know what we were just talking about about south africa thats true everywhere in the world its true every continent every country every city and what i think is fascinating and its a particularly rich conversation in the United States where we have so many foods and almost none of them are from the United States. Apples that we come from parts of asia that oranges that we eat come from also china we come we get bananas from new guinea and this is a story of colonization like were talking about daniel so that was a genuine i promise popeye in this show so i could have it delivered lets lets break down some pie so weve got a pipe graphic and we kind of broken down and read it see you can see this to have fun making this show we did not make this i. Ate an apple pie cinnamon sure lanka apples hello asia ginger Southeast Asia not make it into the 0 sugar india there would be no thought there would be no apple apple pie if it hadnt been for all of the 7 places around all the one thing that i want to argue about the daniel and maybe you can help me out here pastry from france but pastries come from all over the world different kinds of pastries so even when were breaking down where the food comes from the conversations within that how doesnt help us understand what weight eating should be more of what we eat saying daniel from the boat that you don. Well i think to our earlier point that we were talking about in those those viewers that you mention that said food is just food whats the big deal right thats a triumph of decades and centuries of people working really hard to make food you know grow it in the field transport it sell it get it to our plate to the point where we dont have to think about it at all right so to your point an apple pie and we have a saying here in the u. S. That something is as american as apple pie apple pie isnt really that american at all all those ingredients come from other countries mostly from asia and even the pastry you mention from france i mean butter was 1st produced mostly in egypt in ancient egypt and wheat in russia so we dont really have any claim in the u. S. To apple pie and thats true for a lot of countries and a lot of foods so you know i dont know that. Yes and also i mean it only becomes toxic great only becomes bad call and i dish im only becomes bad if its toxic to the Indigenous People circle instance. The cards are all. That has come or is also part of my a lot of developing nations and that culture is toxic so one of those asian in that way then becomes a bad thing because then the people are not taking care of their help because fast food as we know and this is being you know that has been done that fast food isnt necessarily good for your help so now colonise ation no longer is no longer adding value to the locals or to going to generous people but instead its taking away in that case that its bad so im glad that even when things become toxic and enjoy it i want to bring you in with this because we have another example from our community and its shared in a tweet like this this is from krista who says its when it delves into appropriations or Cultural Appropriation happens when power imbalances from conflict are present are generally not too cheesed off by folks adapting pizza but adapting hamas while in open conflict with the people who originally made it thats when its not so great so i want to share a video comment for you to to listen to from a couple of people we put their comments together because theyre very similar ruff from dad hes a visual artist in tunisia and shes the coauthor of the gaza kitchen have a listen. 6 degrees of vegetable dish from tunisia libya energy. Related to our music because growth was a jew sophistries were lately in the persian mediterranean diet is already starting to claim to this effect from within and by doing to be doing so raising the. History of the past the Jewish Service an. Attempt to appropriate arab and palestinian foods like hamas and to laugh a lot amongst many others is simply an extension of their attempt to colonize palestinian lands it can also be viewed as connery colonialism it is an attempt by them to think of it really eat the other erase the other and replace the other the joy had been wondering your thoughts on that. I mean i think food is definitely one of those arenas where you have these larger political struggles really play out in this particular i mean the hamas example is. One of those things that is so kind of explosive i mean there is 0 is thing about this example when george and i were actually having breakfast in the jordanian restaurant here in doha and we were talking about hundreds we were kind of asking this question of the playfully like where does one thats come from is it from lebanon is it from palestine is it from israel and lo and behold someone comes up to us and shes like wait are you guys talking about where hummus comes from and she sat down with us and it completely sparked a different conversation precisely because this is not only just a very personal conversation but you know nationalism really sees itself played out in certain types of dishes and i think thats very particular in this case yeah and i think when we come when we talk about hamas i think this is a extremely political topic obviously because its seen as a way to pink brush what is happening and the occupation within past and so i think this is an especially political topic but and even when we move away from Something Like hummus and go into something to discuss Cultural Appropriation for example i think it becomes a big problem when sued and dishes are complete need to somebody from the history and the culture that it actually had and its kind of been misappropriated or being commodified by people who dont actually really have a claim on it and being you know sold i think thats what people feel very upset about when. Air for example when those 2 white sheriffs went to mexico and got tortilla recipes and started a taco truck like a lot of people are really upset because these and these recipes that have history and happening to these people have been disavowed body from its origin and yet he can and commodified you know these guys im going to let me bring in david hare because david is has written a story about an assumed explorer who went around the wild absent. Connected discovered foods. And im really interested in the way that you frame the stand with east peoples food was the appropriate thing was he spreading goodness around the out way for on this strike he has a little bit about this gentleman thats a great question his name was David Fairchild and he was an agricultural explorer for the United States government going around the world trying to find plants that he could introduce to the United States and d a lot of countries had people who were doing this type of work certainly in western europe certainly in asia trying to find plants that could be economically useful so if you take a main go from india and bring it back to florida in the United States and create a new type of dish or dessert maybe a sorbet or an ice cream is that a new dish or is that derivative of something that should really honor its Indian History right and i think thats kind of the question what with all were talking about here who owns a miss right you know think of it as the middle east we think of it as palestine israel chickpeas originally come from from the mediterranean right from much further west so does that mean that someone owns chickpeas and someone else made something great with them and then they can each owned that portion of the of the journey of hummus and potentially you know then someone in the United States or someone in france can make some new type of hummus and only that i think all of these stories in a way belong to all of us but to the point of appropriation its really important to honor who did be innovation who created these dishes i have to share inspired to innovate i have to share this with you because one of my favorite twitter accounts and last names sadly as in is a palestinian american see whats the buzz feed but the reason i think its because she is obsessed about the way that thomas is changed no one lays but not the pie hummus goodbye and have it not any penalty sweets minus mint chocolate chips. Harris i will wait to digest that and move on to many well how do i want to bring you the i want to bring you back in here with this year i thought its interesting when we hear the story of how the u. S. In the early days since out explores this part of the department of agriculture to really bolster the u. S. Is food sources we needed this out to our community about britain and britain search for ingredients including sugar pepper tea cold cod and more drove the rise of the empire and this is how one of our Community Members responded ronald says africans never had to search for anything i guess thats why were always victims of colonialism what are your take on his thoughts there clearly a little bit tongue in cheek but theres an underlying point. Yes well for me i mean if you look at some about gradients in africa had had colonialism or had. You know the explorers not brought things like planted bananas into africa because those are not african natives but little breeders of become such a big part of who we are as africans that some element for instance banana lion is used in you know in uganda wedding celebrations become a big part of who we are so had those barriers not you know made their way through to west africa we wouldnt have that so my one thing is you know colonialism can work and it also you know it depending on where you know if its toxic or its adam very new or if its improving. The community that its working in so for me you know the whole thing around who owns what as long as im like its Cultural Appropriation if people are not. Referencing got original recipe so if youre going to take almost and say this is my i created this whole most and not reference it to the regional people the original people who came up with the recipe thats definitely a Cultural Appropriation i would love eating the following for the system because if you just love journalism is a perfect fusion going on right that the latest told us a story about a fusion happened not by any commercial interests but by People Living around the world and creating their own food and talking about korean failed have a look at this little clip. This is why the owner of. Her grandfather was one of the 1st to open a dozen men restaurant in korea aside from its popularity in deliciousness touchingly and tells a fascinating story of immigration it belongs to unique genre cuisine korean chinese food which is music korean chinese and no its not a fusion its its own thing created by chinese immigrants in korea and then. Got on get money out now. By the change. Such a fascinating story is there anything about the way that we the food and the way that we move around to bring athletes and we not is is universal so its going to happen sadly not get all caught up in this is colonialism or you stole our food because and take our food anyway wherever we may. I mean definitely theres always been movement of people and with people theres always going to be movement of food and when you get to a new place and you have access to certain ingredients and you dont have access to meetings that you had back home of course youre going to have something new and i think soleil hardness at san franciscan shack called it assimilation cooking rather than really fusion because this is not really a melding of 2 cuisines per se but more like adapt at adapting our own cuisine to like the current environment you know and i think this exchange of ideas is what really makes us so human right but i think when were talking about coal unary colonialism i think whats really interesting is this idea of Cultural Capital i think right now particularly it seems like we kind of live in a space where your difference kind of gives you Cultural Capital like i can imagine when i was a kid growing up in california korean food was not by any means popular you know i eventually had to my mom to not make korean food i think this is a very familiar story for a lot of minorities who grew up in lets say the u. S. But today if i go out for dinner with lets say 9 korean friends in the u. S. You know a lot of times theyll ask me so wheres the best korean place to go to and it becomes this kind of Cultural Capital but i think the problem is when that Cultural Capital doesnt translate to maybe political or Even Economic capital so i think you know when you have the spread of different cuisines and even these beautiful and alive for you know mixtures and influences of each other thats fantastic but we also have to be conscious that you know these people who maybe these cuisines originally came from can also be able to participate at least in the shaping of that narrative is also learned from the capital that comes im so glad you brought up economic capital because it makes me think of some. So i bring up this one from anthony he says new zealand and australia have a fun fight over who invented pavlova it was new zealand by the way if you take food more seriously than that and im going to roll my eyes there are 0 victims appropriation is hot air im tired of victim culture so keep that in mind before i show you this comment we got after someone watching live on you tube mitchell says food wars are responsible for destroying the indigenous corn crop in mexico and many hundreds of times over that destroying valuable organic crabs for the toxic g. M. O. Poisons its sad so daniel i want to give that to you because anthony said there are no victims but are there livelihoods at risk here absolutely there are victims and a comment like that generally we hear from people who have been kind of the victors of history who have lived in countries where they dont have to think about the source of many ingredients or the combination that comes together that other people created to make the dishes that they enjoy every day but theres a limit to this i think theres you know we dont need to sit down in a restaurant and be given an entire list of everyone in every culture who contributed to our meal that evening and i think of these foods kind of as colors right so theres theres these primary colors that you can mix and match together to create new colors and maybe you create a new color and then someone mixes and matches that to create an even newer color and you know how far back do you have to go to really cite the source certainly a few levels back the challenges when it comes to cultures a culture cant really you know copyright of food in the sense of kind of a global patent and so its really on us its really on those of us who study food who think about food and who eat food to really be aware of kind of the political and geo political and economic story that thats coming together with every meal madi i think we cannot talk about food to us without talking about jhana fries the russian with which people talk about jonah fry which is obviously from nigeria oh is it recycle or is it from guyana. Is it taste delicious let me leave you with this thought hey this is from do the following harris hes not even hating on the other west african countries hes hating on high. We dont want to package we are big do you guys please dont come on the long lines i walked cuisine and believe i was just gone back and read johns dont know who but someone who brings up the joke manufacturing be awful do you any does the United Nations join us on this want to put in a proposal to. Drop them on a soft drink of this product 1st it will become a vision of a modern up next stop underground blast on a reduced to one we do not so much passion about say thank you gas for sharing your passion as well frankly community and thank you for everybody knew how to spread the legacy of kindness and this week rick and i will see you on line. Our planet is warming as never before with profound consequences for all life on earth but the worlds leading Scientists Say there is still time to act planet s. O. S. 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