Anything the family Boris Johnson kendricks is done and where does the u. K. Go from here fully believe general election 100. From kashmir to block just on to religious minorities is pakistan willing to take responsibility for its human rights abuses i lost the human rights minister in iran comes government. Here in missouri thank you for joining me on up front youre the human rights minister in a government that is perhaps the worlds number one critic of Indian Government human rights abuses in kashmir abuses that weve covered on the show very recently but what about pakistans own contribution to that human rights crisis in kashmir youve backed armed groups like gesture mohamad and lush going to pay about that have killed civilians that have engaged in torture that have ethnically cleansed kashmiri hindus thats all undeniable isnt it its absolutely did. We not done any ethnic cleansing. In fact the but. For a way that created the situation. I think nobody in the world believes that the dish needs in occupy wall street. Fighting to liberate themselves from. The scene and locked our. Forces in. The scheme its not 121 days i mean weve covered weve weve covered the lockdown extensively im just wondering you can still have an indigenous Freedom Movement while also having pakistan support violent groups like gesture muhammad and whats going to say about you dont deny even your Prime Minister has admitted that your country in the past. Has backed some pretty vicious groups here that yes the past we have backed the Freedom Fighters and we had back groups supporting goes to the fight just that was a long time ago and nothing and youve done the best human rights by occupation for. The violence that has led to. Indigenous struggle to say to you so you know did you discuss marys but didnt the leader of gesture muhammad take responsibility for an attack on Indian Security forces in february that almost led to war between your 2 countries he did that while allegedly sitting in a Pakistani Military hospital bed hes quoting attacks on india from pakistan your little bit where. Attack was a false flag operation deliberately to try and crack. Into what you had already and which was of course the lockdown being an expression of the august august. When and we know that india was going to this election liberate you know what to detract attention and the this does not really step this who was behind the obama ad that we have all use a false flag but the un committee which blacklist terror groups blacklisted gesture mohamad earlier this year or tried to blacklist the Group Earlier this year you know that theyve claimed responsibility for that attack and you also know that the Financial Action task force which is one of the worlds leading Global Financial watchdogs based in paris says has said repeatedly this year that your government is not just the past your government today is not doing enough to curb Terrorism Financing and Money Laundering inside of pakistan thats what the Financial ActionTask Force Says they were on weed out of playing with most of the demands of the Financial Action task force but you also know they meant that one of the members of the f t f is. Having to serious problem and we have protested objected. Yes but those that politicize this what should not be opened it. Up when it does not let me. Or to try to improve. Sort of you for proof and comply they say youve only complied with 5 of the 27. 00 action items theyve asked you to take on terrorism and Money Laundering lets just talk about mary independence you talk about them. Yes just briefly respond to the Financial Action task force has not. Shown that we are cooperating with. That and i think the general impression is that despite it yes. I mean up at this well. You mentioned indigenous Freedom Movement in kashmir but its not as if your government pakistan is offering customary freedom is it in pakistani administered kashmir known as in your country which means free or independent kashmir the politicians are forced to sign a declaration there saying quote i solemnly declare that i believe in the ideology of pakistan the ideology of the states access into pakistan and the integrity and sovereignty of pakistan that doesnt sound like freedom or independence for the customer is there that looked into your country a new government and listen this is the pot of fish need that little bit strong and get occupation and that it was going to link up with one it is not and occupy if you. Just know memory either is or its not free its not independent and the parliament they have then elections and its part of the. Constitution to say and this declaration and we have said that we have not even focalized our border with china that they reported agreement impacts and guinea to the private settlement after the initial. So. To be clear and to be clear are you offering question marys independence yes or no does the pakistani government offering me the have said. They want that letter said i dont think you would support missions but the us people get it as you notice here in missouri the un pub as it does not have independence question on it it says join India Pakistan im on 3 would you out of the question on independence. We have. To sit and they want to. Join. Us want it we have to go we should give the right to. The Indian Government says you have no credibility when it comes to criticizing their actions in crimea given your own actions in baluchistan your countrys biggest province where the pakistani government has dealt with a decades long insurgency by killing abducting torturing thousands of people even today. Listen india. Is an internationally recognized. But meaning. So one believes that isnt and. Secondly we havent. Got the province makes its choices well this is absolutely not the bad as in yes i absolutely no comparison 1st of all you say its an integral part of our country thats exactly what india says you blame india for supporting the military insurgence thats what india says about part on in kashmir and just sort of the fact the voice of below its missing Persons Organization you must know the v. B. M. P. They say that since 1948 pakistan has quote been killing people and throwing dead bodies they say 45000 people have been killed or abducted by pakistani Security Forces those a pakistani citizen saying this by the way. A lot of them are not. Living up to. Provoke thats. Just on what. Exactly. You have updated your information we have no combat a bit but again. We have a good mission which is focusing on getting out in force just. Yet. Anybody. Has a problem with. Ringback the lad but the fact of the matter is that if he gets. In good actions in battle to the man this man shared a story whether it was about the let us know what the understand how this sounds to a global audience watching this they hear an indian politician come on the show a few weeks ago and say pakistan is behind everything bad in kashmir then they hear you come on the show and say india is behind everything that is bad and blah to stop its a mirror image no i am not saying yes and. I think thats. Me accept it was a little it had been in the bag but and yet they say the same about you and you. Know im talking about. What not understanding like you do what they dont. Know you maybe you just need. To recognize that the disputed territory not an occupied territory but if you want is just to be clear. But being yes but it is a place where as you yourself say there are enforced disappearances you told me a moment ago that all possibile to stop in force disappearances which suggests that you know that that is not disappearing. And other human rights abuse in your the human rights and. Let it will be looked. Up to be that made it true also. But we recognise it yet you link with it and we have institutions where you can. And i think this is the basic difference between and. Yes i think you made us points you made that i said well look the better they looked at other things like. You know ok well were going to run out of time so im going on here to talk about india we have to talk about pakistan just sticking with your portfolio which is human rights a lot of people around the world look at pakistans pretty draconian and barbaric blasphemy laws as something i discussed with imran khan when and he was on the show a couple of years ago some pakistani politicians have tried to train them they got killed for speaking out against your blasphemy laws do you understand why those laws leave religious minorities in your country like christians and shias and hindus and ahmadis feeling still persecuted demonized target is. Us she has like not of my daughter. And that bothers them. So please let me get on when we talk about my daughter but the sheer. If you have an oppressed Minority Community in pakistan or a lot of other absolute really that havent been and havent been killings of shia professionals there havent been disappearances of has already she isnt blood just start there hasnt been a sectarian campaign of hiatus i havent been suicide bomb attacks and. We just imagined. The unbuttoned and one attack the other but to say that this yes that might well use fact. We have a slim simpsons and we are the minority i mean not the one muslim citizens yes then the problems but not. The separate press that accusations last week charges. And took less than just you up to it a blasphemy yes we. Will stems were trying to destroy it and. So i mean that issues really dont you know bit and i dont mean that piece of it well oh my god Long Distance it doesnt have all just little of. Imaginable that were not seeing is that things happening in the gulf of course the ahmadis were in a tricky situation because you say theyre not muslims they say they are muslims heres what and how many spokesman said this year under your government he said how many have no religious freedoms in pakistan and recent actions taken by the authorities mean that the situation is going to deteriorate further and make it impossible for ahmadis to carry on with their everyday lives that was just 67 months ago under your government let me listen to the end of these according to our constitution our anonymous and every right to. Come into politics just elections on non muslims they have every right to practice their religion but we dont have the land themselves not muslim in order to participate in pakistani public life some would say thats a form of not. I dissipate an update like but yes when we have to sign a form to get except the finality of the prophet up on him and all of those but not once do definition on muslims so theres no denial of that right but if then says the that constitution is wrong and they want us to change that then im afraid that that means you say theres no doubt of rights you say theres not a lot of us in the show back in 2016 when i asked him ron can your Prime Minister if he would extend equal rights to ahmed if he said and i quote all human beings have equal rights anyone who is a pakistani has an equal right yet shortly after he was elected to office last year Princeton University economists are to for me on whod been selected to serve on the Prime Ministers Economic Advisory council was asked to step down because hes a mama why did the Prime Minister stand by him why did you stand by him if everyone has equal rights in pakistan if he was not a bystander he was in the us so lets be very when you think equal rights you have equal rights and the constitution you want to bring about changes that many people on stage again just which may improve with it the 18th amendment we have not bothered didnt want to bring about any change in the whole good. But i think that that we had this was unfortunate and there was a wonderful if you look at what discriminatory. You know i think that it was the choice of the government finally but i think that. The better of me and the fact of the matter is that. It should not have been done in the way it was done if you pick up on the question we should never have taken that position the 1st gentleman is not bystanders in living in the state so its not that it was being denied a right to be part of the government and he was being asked to be an advisor and i think that. Is one of the leading economists ok but it was targeted because i. Know the country was. He was treated needlessly and i think that it would have been handled better but he was not denied any any you must say it was being asked to come as an advisor or sort of look sure in missouri thank you so much for joining me on up front. From worldwide protests over corruption and inequality to the popularity of socialist politicians like Jeremy Corbett and Bernie Sanders its hard to get away from the idea that theres something very wrong with the Global Economic system even billionaires and Business Leaders talk openly about capitalism being broken so is it really on the way out or all reports of capitalism is demise much exaggerated greece blakely is an economics commentator at the new statesman magazine in london and author of the new book stalin how to save the world from financialization 0 argos a financial policy analyst at the Cato Institute in washington d. C. A libertarian free market think tank thank you both for joining me in the arena how much of the recent protests that weve seen around the world in latin america in the middle east as one of the rise of politicians like Jeremy CorbettBernie SandersElizabeth Warren how much of all of that is about the explicit failure of capitalism to protect workers to share the proceeds of growth to reduce inequality gross i think specifically when youre looking at whats going on in latin america at the moment youre looking at the massive pushback against International Institutions that for decades have been in place in 40 states are actually actively involved in foisting a very particular economic and political order on nations that simply democratic and have rejected many of those policies as a significant source of instability and many of those states its hardly surprising that people who are basically losing the right to vote to have a say over their economy are really getting angry about this stuff when you actually look at the countries that are seeing protests that were its interesting because some of the countries that have the most violent protests right now are the ones that have been most prosperous in the last 3 decades chile is by far the richest economy latin america inequality there has gone down which hasnt happened for example in when as well or its opened up in liberalized massively it has trade agreements also unoiled going to be discontent thats driving these protests and i dont think its primarily economic disk. Discontent reflected by the figures anyway in your new book stolen you say quote we are currently living through the death throes of fine slow growth would you be so in the book i talk about this idea of finance libraries being a kind of model according to which economies particularly in the global north have been governed for a long time and an institutional arrangement that privileges the interests of a small class basically corporations because of financial lies theyre far more focused on their standing in wall street the city Financial Markets and they will do anything to kind of short term share price even at the expense of long Term Investment and paying their workers. So that there is a very strong for us well i mean you know it takes a lot i why all the system economic and political systems to break down and we are seeing the cracks i didnt see the breakdown greece i have to say you know you look over the last 30 years in the big story of the last 30 years is a massive massive reduction in extreme poverty primarily driven by 2 things one since the late ninetys seventys china opening up to the world which had 900000000 poor at the time that it opened up in a house less than 100000000 still 100000000 to many but a massive improvement in then since the ninetys india doing the same thing thats the dramatic story of the last 30 years now in terms of indebtedness in developed countries including the call to within developed countries that is a phenomenon that i am concerned about in one that is i think driven a lot of the time by regulatory restrictions that benefit the people who want assets at the expense of everybody else but you look at the developing world inequality globally has actually gone down it is happening the china case is really interesting right because the way that china has got to the position its in today is by breaking all the rules that those International Institutions want to impose on it it has had capital controls its not Exchange Controls it has not state ownership of many of the most important institutions. In the economy not to say ownership of the Banking System of Big Enterprises mentioned use which as we know but that is why its been able to weather the storm but it doesnt mean i mean today the main driver has been for interest investment from other countries and the fact that foreign capital could. Movie in the main driver of chinas growth of the last 10 years has been state investment in fact has basically been the only gripe of a lot of a lot of the last 10 years is the smallest bit of this whole period your only point to this is the problem for your way of looking at the world but its not just socialists or people on the left who are saying capitalism has major problems whether its inequality or stagnant growth its also the International Monetary fund the World Economic forum the world bank hoard cool capitalist institutions are saying this stuff yes im a left wing plot no i mean i dont i would say its a little in plot but i think the narrative has to be differentiated here is theres a difference between pointing out specific problems with the Global Economy right now and i think there are plenty of them but i think most of the time theyre driven by misguided interventions by specific National Governments whereas the trend in the general adoption of free markets around the world in the last 30 years there is no question that its improved the world over all the worst of all not know where youre from billionaire radar earlier for example says capitalism must evolve or die but its not working for the majority of people do you agree with it no i dont actually know i think as i say the main driver what we want to eradicate is situations where people cannot satisfy their basic necessities in cannot flourish in a humane way around the world and i think we havent had a period in the history of the world like the last 30 years in which the vast majority of the global population even in the most deprived places have suddenly and finally gained access to the most basic essentials in the cities in that has been driven universally by liberalization i actually agree with the point that a lot of this has been driven by governments i think we have to look at capitalism as a joint venture as it were between the free market and a particular camp that form of their states and they have often over the last 40 years whether you look at that tourism in britain reaganism in america you know various pinochet in chile right states have worked with markets to actually break down protections that existed so when you know someones whats your model greece what country one of them is it is real democracy and this is the thing that no this is. A specific country this is the knowledge of what germany and Bernie Sanders are promising is something that has not existed but thats what theyre demonstrating for a real world exam because often critics of socialism will say venezuela cuba extreme and north korea is the real world examples of people like yourself can point to and say no this works what are they going for there are places you work there are plenty of examples of d social democratic states if not socialist states providing much Higher Standards of living for the majority of their citizens thats something i think we can whats one or all the nordic countries right you know its interesting to have them up higher rates of legs and let me tell you something has Better Health outcomes better education outcomes at least a few other things that people dont realize are not economies sweden has the highest wealth inequality in all of europe its privatized the schools its private a lot of the hospitals agree with you it has very high standards of living in a very large safety net that helps a lot of people but its not the picture that Bernie Sanders who said i was going to say was that those countries have historically had a much Better Outcomes because theyve had a bigger role for the state in providing all these things thats not only the lives that have been 40 years those protections social institutions Public Services have been eroded if you look at the most prosperous countries in the world they have the rule of law they have very well protected Property Rights in they have a big role for markets even within the provision of Public Service and if you look im talking about new zealand well australia nordic countries germany france even they are beginning to adopt that model since were usually degrees of the problem want to go for the phone when people in the us in particular have this debate about capitalism socialism they say oh social is really bad venezuela and then you say what about the nordic countries and they said oh actually theyre capitalist countries just like ours when you kind of a both ways if theyre so similar to the u. S. Or more does the u. S. Do what those countries are doing in terms of regulation well it doesnt really like the extent and usually multiple u. S. Economy is similar to the norwegian economy in many ways it is yeah i mean its open to trade it has capital mobility it doesnt it doesnt. Have the same level of good wages minimum wage the taxpayer pays for more health care in sweden. The provision of health care is in many ways the same as it is in the areas that we will see that it is not universe there which is that both systems are all caps or systems as and they are economies in which there is private ownership of the most important resources we need to produce stuff and those are also used to maximize profit and i supported by the state whats socialist today are arguing for is a step beyond that is socialized ownership of all the stuff we need to produce things and its democracy in our economy as well as in our politics that means walk ownership of it means you know workers actually making the decisions about what we should be producing its democratic control of our Public Services in the democratic to be clear are you saying that the public that the government should own all Public Services all utilities are saying that there should be Different Levels of a ship so that should be nationalized ownership of some things that are natural monopolies but primarily we need an economy that is run by people for people we have tried this before right i mean worker ownership was something which i didnt so it was yugoslavia it was originally the model for the soviet union and steadily the state took over more and more roles in yugoslavia it was simply deeply inefficient its an economy that was stagnant for decades if this is not a noble argument its a very inefficient way the evidence it is to organize an economy because its a court of one of the engineers and we run out of time do you have to ask a big question before you run out of time how much is Climate Change per resident its completely changed the game is going to be impossible to solve the Climate Crisis under capitalism and it provides so much c to those movements that are actually seeking to provide about a logical actually couldnt disagree more immediately and great to have to say you look at the environmental record of the socialist economies all across history and its been terribly poor by calling russia is completely drink as a result of slave management of the whole me i get why you want to say you know the basics you let me know when say we will go into the us i want you were in this in our democracy going to able to give you an example of our greatest of the greatest literate Human History to do a search for america the worlds most famous couple has to come or you would deny it well i mean but look at the evolution of Carbon Emissions in the United States in the last 10 years its in. Driven by private market you just have to put us on the record i know you work for the Cato Institute which is funded by the Koch Brothers you believe in caused Climate Change of course ok and you think steps should be taken to tackle it oh yeah absolutely and they will be driven by innovation in private by capital that they go inside of cup you think capitalism can solve the Climate Change bill its the only effective tool to do so if you look at the historical evidence will have to leave it there do you go grace thank you both for joining me in the arena thats our show up front of will be back next week. The shocking treatment of disabled people in Eastern European state run cattle in these cages who cannot have access to toilets or water and the bureaucratic indifference to their plight she has his hands and his fates tied to the beds 5 years off to fast highlighting such abuses the people in power returns with a 2 part investigation to continuing mistreatment and neglect europes recurring shame hot one on aljazeera. Aljazeera. Where every. Week i think the great thing was the great show the ascent to some. Part of the day a precursor of whats to be done. As president thank surat after the 2 Countries Exchange prisoners. Im Richelle Carey this is al jazeera live from doha also coming up several saudi nationals in the u. S. Are questioned over the deadly shooting at a naval base. And escalation of violence