Breach. Iran out starts what angry iraqi protestors were shouting as they set fire to the iranian consulate in the city of najaf a significant anti test run escalation but how much influence does iran wield in iraq is it a force for good or is it holding back the country and its people this is inside story. Hello and welcome to the program im Adrian Finnegan after months of violent antigovernment protests in iraq anger has turned towards neighboring iran demonstrators stormed the iranian consulate in the holy city of knowledge of the for setting fire to it on wednesday a number of people were killed in the crackdown which followed adding to the hundreds who died in the last 2 months of protests its the strongest expression of anti iranian sentiment in recent months with demonstrators accusing to iran of supporting the government that theyre trying to fight it comes off to similar attacks on iranian properties in karbala earlier this month and in bastra last year when baghdad has condemned the attack sending Army Reinforcements to try to suppress the violence a curfew has been put in place and socalled crisis cells have been set up meanwhile irans foreign minister says that iraq has a responsibility to protect the consulate and must send a responsible strong and effective response. Well get to our guests for our discussion in just a moment but 1st lets look at why protesters accuse iran of meddling in the countrys affairs like many iraqi politicians Prime Minister abou mathy has long running ties with iran having worked with its leadership before the fall of Saddam Hussein others include former Prime Ministers Nouri Al Maliki at every amount of fiery and former Islamic Supreme Council leader Amar Al Hakim and his late father is al hakim both political and military leaders said to maintain a quote special relationship with temp grant which was detailed in a series of intelligence reports leaked to u. S. Media earlier this month irans also allied with the armed group the Popular Mobilisation forces the group is sanctioned by baghdad but some say the group represents an Iranian Military presence in the country. So lets bring in our guests for todays discussion from london were joined by joe what a member of the Research Committee of the middle east center at the London School of economics via skype from hartford ship me a Legal Advisor to the National Council for iraqi opposition and a senior solicitor from turkey iran for what is already a professor at the university of tehran in the faculty of world studies a warm welcome to you all gentlemen lets start with you its clear that protesters are angry about what they see as iranian influence in iraq but are they right is iran im a lion actor influencing or meddling in iraq e politics religion and economic affairs. They are not only a right but that are very much examples they have very much. Too much examples about this. As the rain in the last one was then when this is the most raised the illustrations started and they were asking for the Prime Minister juries and the e. U. Was ready to resign by the way then if any and stepped in and influenced him to remain in power defying all the protest of the people the 2nd example is that says 2003 the iranian have been supporting corrupt sectarian affective failing politicians to rule iraq and they kept all recycling them through these 17 years and they have profit even supported them to the to the and even to the fact that they kept them in power for all these 17 years then they have created this or they have. Mobilized or i should say. Taken advantage of the creation of the Popular Mobilization forces and they have taken control of 60 or 70 percent of this forces by them by by their political by by their lay the. Us and survey monies controlling them and they declare in public that they follow orders from iran are not from the Iraqi Government although the Prime Minister was supposed to be their commander in chief so all these things have instigated the iraqis they are archys and they feel that the other iranians are really happy with such corrupt failing and an effort of government sectarian government and they would like to keep it like this because they could control the country through these through these people so hashmi najaf is the seat of the Shia Religious Authority in iraq what are your thoughts on the attack on the consulate and its significance or the demonstrations concerns legitimate. First of all thank you very much for having me and i would like to offer my sincere condolences to the church of the childrens who have. The money to buy the pricing and to their families now in terms of the significance the significance and the high seas because the jobs are really known to your heroes is the holiest shrine in share islam and therefore the time on it signifies time to i think the message from somebody you may then sell on within the demonstrators might have been sent to the iranians that youre on hold or welcome because also pogroms come to the city in order to took the whole religious duties now. I think we need to be very very careful in our life situation i dont think its a full on conclusion that the demonstrators all the ones who attacked the embassy or consulate sorry because 1st of all there are always a few bad apples within a huge group of people like the demonstrators they may be some number 2 we have also the possibility of a selfinflicted wound on the whole flag attack clearly the iranians all looking in to see it in iraq this time both in the open for us this could provide them with a pretext although i see you tell me i think for you by the way the irony of this was when it was attacked and the Iraqi Security forces would have informed the u. A. E. And to evacuate the embassy theres also this type of yes or no and that is the case i think iraq is security is a little bit capable of defending this also that against demonstrators who are largely on all exceptional. Now this raises a number questions if that is that case was this orchestrated im not know as i dont have the answers because youre talking very recently and i dont have much information about it just going back on the ones that made. Us and mother. I think the roots of your reading of homer those are very early on since the invasion of iraq has 3 when the better forces who are openly funk who were in the front it allied and trained by the iranians and to iraq and impose themselves on the Security Forces went in to me that they getting all of those Security Forces they are excused all human rights breaches since early from the invasion so i dont think its and then there are also the most recent revelations by intercept to the New York Times the papers that were revealed documenting step by step almost being individuals with whom the iranians have had contact and that was the revelation the entire government is corrupt and abusing human rights so that somebody like the iranians backing them up i think will invoke some restraint that is not to say that me and dont the he attack on the consulate it is hiding it for all but i would also say this is a whole lot during practice to get a rainbow was blessed with an attack on the American Embassy but early on in 97. 00 janata the hostages were held will meet your years a year year and it so therefore i dont think this is an iraqi whole mark it seems to be that there is some outside interference and now we have reinforcement coming in from baghdad. To crush the demonstrators who always a lot always change. Ok lets bring in. Saudi into round youll no doubt want to response to respond to some of or you youve heard there especially whether this attack was orchestrated or whether it was a false flag attack but but 1st. Tell me does iran seek to control or influence those in political power in iraq is it no longer welcome that. You know i think you know one tries to have good relations with iraq we remember what happened and we had someone like Saddam Hussein in iraq that fast for 8 years and that was ended in having hundreds of thousands of people kids so having good relations with your neighbors is not something that the iranians want that is the norm in International Relations that you should have close konamis links Culture Links political links with the neighboring countries especially when you live in the middle east where you have lots of wars and terrorism and other Security Problems having good relations that your neighbors become even more important so if. Iran is that iran wants to have close links with different iraqi parties or iran wants to make sure that another side doesnt stay in does not come to power in iraq then thats a fate of accusation that you can all right is interested in having girl a ship but dont let it run accusing the secret tell you the wrong thing control r. T. What happens in iraq to what extent is is what happened whats happening in iraq today does does iran except that it did its fault. And its just totally exaggerated if iran had that much power maybe they could have. Secured their own consulates imagine so exaggerating irans influence in the is of a of the losing parties in iraq election to accuse the venice of elections of some foreign connection when you accuse the Iraqi Government youre basically insulting the iraqi people that voted for that government you know that iraq is one of the few other countries that actually has a presented a government to be have monarchies the have dictatorships we have a general us thats come to power to criticize in the arab world and we have iraq that actually holds elections and they want to have leadership change and some some of these monarchies dont like to see democracy in iraq thats why the excuse that i see government of different so how do you explain the anger in iraq at the moment particularly directed at iran. Yeah thats a very good question the basic question is that the people who act track. You down and installations in there are the consummate are they were presenting their arky people dance that is absolutely not i encourage you to take part in that a brain walk makes yes i dont know if you know this but there is this religious ceremony for the database in the for the it day that im on the scene and a sound was martyred at that religious seminary in. A ceremony in iraq and you have 20000000 iraqis are walking from najaf to care about every year and about 5000000 iranians join this people and iraqi people feel that is that 1000000 iranians that it has that has nothing to do you know that has nothing to do that i think of going has actually been going on for centuries now no no thats not doing saddams time that 1st prohibited people were not allowed to take take that so if you want to live off the force and now the us and i was going to not know the people who attacked the line and consulate based on the local police and local authorities in they just came from outside niger they are not fun measure for us we have some a look a sound ok in iraq that that i dont like you dance so so much i would what do you make a what you heard just there that its a total exaggeration that iran has that much power and that the protesters are insulting the iraqi electorate well let me correct a few things to start with no iraq you want to have another war with iran iraqis are keen with relations with the 2nd thing its an insult to the iraqi people if you tell them that the last elections well it through are genuine and it was not it was not false because 80 Percent People of the people did not participate in these elections and there was a lot of. Question marks about the result that even the government talked about these things 3rd thing is iraq was not the only responsible part about the iraq iran war the 2 countries were keen to have such well every country every leadership thinking that it could defeat the other part strike a victory over it and within a month or 2 now if you come to your questions i think that the religious ceremonies that takes place in the jeff and ceremonies that take place in the jeff at karbala have nothing to do with the feeling of the iraqi people or the iranian polygamys are always welcome by the iraqis theyve never attacked them like that what the iranian does with some of the archipelagos when they went to iran to mush that now we with the iraqis are happy to have these people and mind you under Saddam Hussein there were hundreds of thousands of people from iran coming to this pelicans and the Saddam Hussein found that this was a very good way to improve this Economic Situation and that the sanctions the problem is that the iranian responsible air in the visions speak clearly or spoke clearly about how they are controlling 5 arab capitals nowadays baghdad damascus beirut and and and and and santa and bahrain and how they ad out they are the ones the government and how they regard back that is the capital of their empire all these talks have insulted the iraqis have been injured theyre there theyre more out there their National Feelings and thats why they do not want to see an inflow furcal influence they could they are ready to see good relations with the iranians but political influence and most of all supporting corrupt governments. I mean come any and there are i mean now that i am people bill are the libs of all the president and religious leaders so why do they dont not approve it why do they prevent the Iraqi Government or the lack of course from trying of fishes out of running the now under the name of iran sell a house for me. Twixt into our iran and the us using iraq right now as a pawn in the in their regional strategies. Well unfortunately of course iraq the chain open thanks you dont since the invasion of 2003 inches an insult to anyones intelligence to suggest the iranians or the iranian government not talking about the iranian people we all sympathies for all that reason against their government directly talking about the iranian government yet since the American Invasion it opened a huge gap in iraq it all takes since of course the dismounting or iraq infrastructure like the state including the long and the Security Forces that opened the door or uranium trained proxy used to enter the country and she used to do this a couple seen since then they have been building up to their credit quite successfully. And so they buy this according to structure in order to control the country and to make cronies all. Neighboring iran and they have in as i said successful now what has happened is that the americans also lost most control on the ground because the iranians have been preparing this for years and i will give you an example because what happened in the pricing against Saddam Hussein in 9091. 00 there are credible reports which suggest that there are iranian backed forces cross the border to support the revolutionaries at the time but of course there are costs why the iraqi army was reasonably powerful during both the period now as i said you know americans have conceded but conceded power all their grounds to iranian influence because what has happened is that those critical of usefulness of all travel and also directed by the reigning government sees all of the open corruption in iraq and they have built. A mountain of wealth they just finished a school the creation ok nowadays. Armed militias who are backing them up and this is exactly the problem this is what the demonstrators are complaining about people are talking about this mysterious 3rd party i do not think that this 3rd party is no longer mysterious if there are there they are on the militia mediations but. Who are supporting this corrupt because they share on interests this was a so the corruption of those arms on to them and they are talking waiting and. Joining. Through an idiot in tehran Irans Foreign Ministry spokesman condemned the attack in jeff and demanded decisive effective and responsible action against what he called destructive agents and addresses this mysterious 3rd power. Who did he mean when he said that and can you answer me this question iranian Security Forces involved in any way either is advisors or directly on the ground in confronting demonstrators in iraq. I think hes talking about the u. S. Government the u. S. Embassy in baghdad that has about 5000 employees which is an amazing number Iranian Embassy in baghdad has about 50 employees so then when youre talking about foreign influence you need to talk about the number of people that the u. S. Government has in baghdad and the number of people that iran has in baghdad we have the u. S. Forces r. Q. Pieing Iraqi Military installations to be hard. U. S. Vicepresident pense visiting iraq and not visiting baghdad going to the kurdish region violating at our facility we have the saudis that have interfered in Iraqi Affairs for many years using petro dollars and paying anyone who was available to attack you that we had isis thats try to overtake baghdad and based on what we hear from our iraqi brothers if it was not for iranian help iraq it would not be able to. Resist against isis in starts and they even try to take over the core of this huge and based on what the court additionally there say that it was irans help that saved Iraqi Kurdistan from isis so when youre attacking iran and youre entitled to it to do that thats ok iran is mature enough to be able to take this type of attack and are its forces how its forces on the ground that. Are its forces involved on the ground in confronting the demonstrators in iraq or are advising Iraqi Security forces very briefly if you can please. The Iraqi Security forces capable of security in their country fight against isis there are key government does not have good relations with the United States thats why the Us Government officials dont visit back that they want to basically overthrow the government rocky Prime Minister wanted to have a contract with chinese and the Us Ambassador event to his office ask him not to go to china they dont like the fact that iraq is buying weapons from russia we have a lot of geopolitics going on here and then you see 50 people a 100 people attacking anybody and installation please remember that this is not because i think there are cities where the rock is sort of the people who look at it is that they didnt that and even walk for me i need you to give me a brief answer here is were almost out of time is iran ready to accept an iraqi Prime Minister who has not lived in iran or or blynde been influenced by iran in any way. Thats not an iranian decision thats iraqi decision iraqi people participate in elections and if they dont like the Prime Minister they will change it and if some of your guests dont like the current Prime Minister they need to work next time maybe they get a Prime Minister that they like because there is a democracy in iraq unlike a lot of i have and its not the guest i think its the demonstrators in iraq who dont like it south joe it would give the final word to you could this attack be the beginning of the end of the rainy and influence in iran and if a new government is formed in iraq due to the protests is it going to be possible to appoint politicians who are not some way linked to or influenced by iran i need a very brief answer from you please to start with by when we criticize you and that doesnt mean that we are supporting the americans we we look at them both as harmful influence they have on from our own will influence in iraq the 2nd thing this could that could be done because the Prime Minister tried to resign and the president of the republic said that on t. V. That he was ready to resign and all things were moving towards finding someone else to replace him but there anyone with a stop to step to change this decision so i think unless the iranian government i was thinking that i always thought that the iranians were clever in politics and they would not support failing or secretary our corrupt politicians but in iraq they are doing their own that they could always support people who are on the iranian side but clearly not nationalist and could do the good things for their country. Im sorry to keep it so brief that gentlemen were out of time thank you for joining us today salah joe what for it is a day and solemn hashmi thank you as always for watching dont forget you can see the program any time again. By visiting a website at 0 dot com for further discussion on this issue join our Facebook Page at facebook dot com forward slash a. J. Inside story and you can join the conversation on twitter a. J. Inside story from me adrian for the go the whole team here and so thanks for watching ill see you get from place. To. December on aljazeera as this year comes to an end we look ahead to 2020 and the stories that may shape the people in power investigates the shocking treatment of disabled people in Eastern Europe scandal its an exclusive look at the Worlds Largest conference on h. I. V. In rwanda movie efforts achieved an aids free africa a true part series charging chinas rise as a 21st century superpower. U. N. Leaders will gather in spain to discuss issues about Climate Change and examine the possible Global Solutions join us for live coverage to somebody on aljazeera. We know the culture we know the problems that affect this part of the world very very well and that is something that were trying to take to the rest of the world we have gone to places and with point on a story that you might take an International Network for months to be able to do it United Nations peacekeepers are out there blowing antiriot. We are challenging the voices were challenging companies who are going to places where nobody else is going. Violence is power. Tools its the political wild card that consummately shapes clothes. The structure that is defended cost. With the support of the people fall through the crushing of their will. People in power exposes the use and abuse of power around the world. On. The taliban says its willing to restart peace talks with the us as president tells troops in afghanistan he thinks the group is ready to strike a deal. This is. Also. Hoping to rise traces of asked the president. To dissolve his party and dismantle his regime. A new political era