A war im antiwar we meet with global news makers and talk about the stories that matter on the edges their own. Ok. One of the real dangers of a ping today we ask a team of experts about the safety of cigarettes and other baiting devices and you can be part of our conversation you can tweet your questions stream or leave a comment in a live chat and the stream. According to the centers for Disease Control and prevention the happening nearly 1600. 00 lung injury cases in United States including 34. 00 deaths linked to pay so sod 1. 00 of the cases happening to a specific brand substance all put out but for many people fighting is seen as a healthy alternative to smoking but how does it work have a look even though there are a ton of different devices out there ranging from pans to box mogs all vaporize years have these few basic components in common a battery coil awake and evacuated the e. U. Liquid is drawn onto the coil by the way from there the battery pushes electricity through the coil heating the liquid until it vaporizes creating a vapor that spanish pales everything beyond that is basically customisations of these components some devices have batteries some have more foils some use different kinds of breaks but all vaporizers essentially work in this same basic way. Joining the conversation in california dr cedric jamie hes a public terry and Critical Care physician and host of the you tube channel medicine deconstructed in North Carolina robert terran hes a professor of biology and physiology at the university of North Carolina Chapel Hill School of medicine and in colorado Amanda Wheeler executive director of the arizona smokefree Business Alliance an organization that represents the states industry welcome everyone. Good to have. A few had a patient who came to you. Today. Knowing what i know about babying the honest bias i would give my patient not as the best i give patients is simply to stop raping we dont know exactly the cause of it but we know that it does induce lung injury and ive seen and had most of all patients in the hospital in the i. C. U. With this injury so my best advice for any and everyone who behaves is to stop doing it do you want to explain what injuring some of what they could but what you see. Thats a good question so again when we look at patients clinically right so we look at them and the way that we define and evaluate or an e. C. Raping induced acute lung injury because we rule out infection we rule out all other causes of a lung injury we get a history of a ping from the patient and then we look at their imaging and we can see on an x. Ray even on a cat scan that the lung is going to appear to look more white whenever you have long looking more white on an x. Ray or cat scan on the lung supposal of black you know that this represents fluid or implementation of some kind now there have been multiple cases where people have actually been biopsied as a result of vaporing and what we see under the microscope and im sure rob can go over this as well as you can see long injury caused within the epoch illegal cells of the lot and the loan once it gets injured once was up until you also start communicating with other cells to recruit them to that area it tends to look like in organizing type of material that can actually lead to fibrosis and scarring and then somebody cant breathe right now before we get too much further into this conversation we got a comment from someone live on you tube who says this is what we should all know so this is c b colace who says 1st of all a distinction needs to be made in the questioning of our show the title what are the real dangers of a thing as the word of a ping is a verb. We must 1st ask what are we being so i mean to actually give out one to you of course because you are the executive director of the smoke free Business Alliance smokefree meaning they ping what is it that your alliance and your organization advocates for what kind of a pens are we talking about. Sure absolutely so our the business is in our organization manufacture and sell nicotine the ping products designed for adults markers who are trying to quit smoking when you. Talk about the race to people if they say did you hear that in a way that made you concerned in any way amanda well much like your commenter from you tube i think we need to be careful when we discuss these things. They ping is a delivery method nicotine theyve been has been around in this country for over 10 years without incident what were seeing right now as an issue with people they being black market marijuana products and marijuana oils in over 80 percent of the cases that is the common denominator were not seeing these injuries show up in the kinds of commercially available Nicotine Products that have been widely used in the United States for the last decade and altering the research is what believed to be the case strain. I would say i totally disagree with that so weve done research from costco bees on healthy baby has even 2 histories of the same rabbit i think on some some of my Science Education just full of the purpose of me going back to school way explain exactly what that means and i was going to do that. I was like nothing changes i always talk to say in a buckets go ahead of it alone its a london thing right yes. I will keep quiet now so this we finished a study about 2 years ago and what we did is recruit healthy baby clothes that didnt have any obvious disease and then we stated them and then we put a tube down into their airways which is the bronchoscopy and then we had a camera about truth we could look around the airways and even these healthy body because they were just smoking regularly cigarettes we could see their ways of really red and inflamed damaged. We also took biopsies from those papers and we studied them and we found a lot of changes quite often more changes than smokers always. And roberts right you know when you when you look at the literature in patients who do vate this is what you see you see some evidence of inflammation within the airway and in fact there has been a study published in which when need people are reaping what it allows it allows for bacteria to actually if youre to the airway a little bit longer than it usually would so the airways arent normal and so i think we have to be careful when we say things like healthy alternative yes its an alternative but im not quite sure about alternative is healthy so its interesting you say that i want to bring in this tweet and from Charles Gardiner ph d. Who writes that the reason that were talking about this is because this conversation coincides with the unique u. S. Explosion of illegal unregulated bootleg t. H. C. Bay poil cartridges that have been shown repeatedly to be contaminated with by timothy acetate oil pesticides and fungus sides is cigarettes he writes have been used safely for 12 years so were not talking about be sick so dr jamie talk to us about your thoughts on this tweet from your expertise specially that last line where he says he cigarettes have been used safely for the past 12 years have been yes thats a good thats a good point and he makes a very good point however this is how i will agree with his point add to his point and maybe even disagree just a little bit when you think about baby yes bates were discovered and really really started to begin to use in 2003 by a chinese pharmacist but the nicotine industry has been using aerosolized type of products since 1963 however if you were going to say that because of the introduction of oil within the delivery devices of t. H. C. Leads to injury you also have to assume when you look at these patients and you look at the data 60 percent of these page. Its use both east cigs and t. H. C. Products i agree with amanda i agree with the gentleman who left that tweet that most of these patients do use t. H. C. Products but again these patients also use Nicotine Products so once the t. H. C. Part of maybe begins the injury you have to assume that vaporing is still healthy even though the injury has begun the injuries begun so even if you say t. H. C. Is the issue right sure but once a long is injured at normal longer has that protective mechanism any longer and is it ok in our area visor isnt there Amanda Amanda was next to mine because i know you have just got to Say Something and then what you come back is if i say or t. H. C. Products is the part of the time that this plant that actually that surprise that short hand is that sad to say that. I believe that i got a case im sure im i am no expert on cannabis or t. H. C. But yes i believe that is correct that t. H. C. Is the psychoactive component of marijuana and you know theres overwhelming evidence with the types of pesticides the types of additives like vitamin e. That are being put into those black market cannabis they its that people really are playing with their lives you know our products that we sell Nicotine Products we have been manufacturing those the same way for over a decade these long and injuries are a phenomenon that has come up in the last year so obviously something in the marketplace has changed you know though the way that we manufacture commercially available Nicotine Products has not changed what has changed are the additives that are being introduced into the black market and the pesticides theyre being used on that black market marijuana and so you know it really isnt an issue that is coming from the legitimate nicotine manufacturers all of our ingredients are fairly registered with the food and Drug Administration our manufacturing facilities are regularly inspected by the food and Drug Administration what we put into our parks and what were doing is the same thing that weve been doing to help smokers for over 10 years and i did you want to explain how you will actually go missing sigal balti and what do you do so everybody compared to not sure absolutely so in a nicotine liquid there are 4 main components you have Propylene Glycol that nicotine and flavor additives. And like i said those are the same things that weve been putting in there for over a decade the same ingredients that are used in nicotine you liquid in the United Kingdom where their Health Officials have defended them as i wanted i would have an issue but i think experience if you want to. Discuss that experience its water vapor and nicotine and labor and then what you get out of that how do you make how does that feel. I mean you know i use a very low nicotine liquid i i its been a long time since i smoked my nicotine levels very low so its just a very mild satisfies a very mild craving for nicotine overall you know a very pleasant experience you know breathing in vapor and exhaling add getting a little bit of nicotine with that satisfying that urge without turning into a deadly product like a combustible cigarette so thats overall you know a very helpful experience were for myself as well as thousands of other smokers i think of i think its important to remember that i remember earlier saying that weve been doing this for a decade without incident again theres incident and then theres reporting i can quite frankly tell you that over the course of the last couple of years in terms of history taking more doctors are asking if somebody uses an isa direct product so you cant really say that there were no incidents before 10 years a bill or 10 years ago within the last 10 years because i can say that positions werent probably asking specifically if people use products or east cigarettes now we ask and because of this epidemic people are now telling us oh my gosh yes i do use this children really important to kind of squeeze that out and not just say that well it didnt take place at all and now its all taking place and asked to be just t. H. C. But im glad that you mention and i just im glad that you mentioned that robert ill go to you with this but i want to link something that dr jamie said which is that now doctors are asking and it could be because of something that amanda said earlier which was something in the market has changed i want to share just an anecdote robert activity for your thoughts after barry read here on twitter says in the high street of the town of kirk and to lock in scotland it now has 8 shops as many Charity Shops and twice as many hairdressers and barber shops one year ago there was one shot. And he goes on to say he thinks the reason is that its another trinket to display and used to show how modern one is devices are popular with both sexes and the tao is predominantly working class so robert i wanted your thoughts on the idea of this being a modern way to smoke and whether or not the public thinks this is the good thing thats replaced a bad thing you know 1st of all commercial just go back to amandas comment that people are being very pink for 10 years or into the so its generally acknowledged tobacco smoking kills about 50 percent of its users however after 10 years those people are actually fairly healthy so if you get someone to start smoking with their 1819 when theyre 29 they look fine by it takes 203040 years to actually develop lung disease but it will catch up with you and we will get it right so saying that people be bracing for 10 years without instances and enough time and i think this is could be a major problem there is the current epidemic which may or may not be due to t. H. C. Or not but theres also the potential long term effects and everything we see in suggests that very thing is setting you up for a long term lung disease exactly the same way as tobacco smoke however if people wait this is a huge experiment which people are on which would be taking part of it and we wont know for another 2030 years. What they do want to just remove that 2nd point that little to put in which is about it was about taking a lifestyle i guess but for a man to pick up on an idea is that its a lifestyle i would say those are you doing it then smoke like ghost ok now save the thing younger people its going to say were going to smoke thats what a lot of people say but innovate. Well i would actually say you know for the businesses that are in my organization the median age of our customers is you know in the early fortys so we primarily cater to people who have been lifelong smokers who have been unable to quit with other products like the patch or gum i understand that for the young people that it may be more of a status thing that theyre picking up on and they also use radically different types of devices than the types of devices that i sell in my business and the businesses in our association so so for those people that are looking at this as some kind of you know cultural trend or some kind of status symbol those really are the people that my businesses and businesses like mine are serving were really here for people who want to stop smoking who have tried Everything Else who are looking for a Harm Reduction tool because thats truly what this is you know it is a norm of Harm Reduction you know and for those smokers who have been able to quit with they think its a different sort of lifestyle its a its a sort of thing that were very passionate about that we advocate very vocally for something that we care about its not something to be trendy or look cool its something thats changed our lives radically and we have a passion for fighting for that for advocating for that and for sharing that with others who may also need similar kind of help i think its something that there isnt that Much Research i just hope tight for one second there isnt that Much Research in that were going to have to wait a while to see maybe what the damage is thats jamies told his perspective his perspective. As a vapor amandas talking about what the benefits that she gets funds are you paying public how does the being land let me let me just hold tight for my woman let me just show you this because this may be evidence or it may be one of the many studies as we go forward about Public Health in. Lens is a Government Organization in the us looking at Peoples Health and they did a study looking at smoking versus faith they filled a bell would draw with cotton balls and 2 bell giles one they allowed to smoke 16 packs over a month of cigarettes the other ones ate for the same amount of time and then this is where we pick up the experiment have a look. Here is the bell jar with cigarette smoke i mean it just is so revolting and thats just the inside of the joke here a lot of tall service whats going on inside your lungs and now were going to come to. The rule. But theres loads of it and this is only after one month. So now lets have a look at the cigarette lets just see a little bit of a car thats the only one thats really got much in the car just 1st what so but i misspoke a Public Health england is a u. K. Organization of course but it looked like that demonstration proved the point of people who like to vacate the smoking is much worse for you then so you ping yes you would look at that demonstration and say what so when i look at that demonstration what i do fear is 1st of all cotton balls cant go to the ice you may cant tell you if they feel bad or if theyre coughing i think bit earlier somebody about the point that its Harm Reduction. When people Smoke Cigarettes and i think cigarettes are bad and i dont think anybody should smoke a cigarette i havent you dont really hear of people for ending up in the i. C. U. After the 1st time they smoked a cigarette ok and im not saying they should and they should not Smoke Cigarettes but kids kids if a man does 14 year old came home and had a baby and in her and she would be upset all im saying is here smoking these kids are less than 35 years old 80 percent of them are getting sick in their in the hospital in the nice e. U. Into baited right 34 patients have died so this is again when i look at that experiment i look at i say oh ok thats cool and i think that thats you know obviously the cotton ball doesnt look as bad as it looked with a smoker but it doesnt mean that no injury is taking place because cotton balls are alive like cells are. You mentioned that this is affecting the youth or what will happen when it affects the youth we got a comment from one of those youth is actually a student in calgary and canada as a biochemist student and this is the comment he left for the string if you like theres just not a lot that we know when it comes to the risks associated with being and we need to have a regulatory response in place while the Necessary Research is being facilitated because just because we dont know what the actual risks are with a ping doesnt mean that we should leave the gateway open for people at risk to get harmed be it controlling the devices controlling the liquid substances what who gets access to it those things need to be in place to protect those who are most at risk. Robert ill give it to you he asked for a regulatory response what do you make of calls to regulate and or ban they ping products absolutely need to be regulated a long war and the potentially flavors we dont know what they do should be banned. Public Health England our School Science experiment is great but when you look at the actual lums you see more changes in smokers lungs which is very concerning which is bad outright they paying well but knowing what you know right now now i think usually start with banning labels so flavors of the number of goals are no great things working initiation and developing into back a companys notice so starting with banning variables menthol for example so you prefer to break so easy to take fruit flavors flavors they should be on the market amount im just thinking back to when cigarettes the information about cigarettes was not being people were not being transparent the industry was not being transparent about the holland cigarettes was doing us it was trying fashionable sometimes even mountains being healthy but it wasnt the case to feel that way revisiting that time but now with a pain point out it is do you think that could be a total possible. You know i dont think thats the case you know really. These Small Businesses in the United States really came up from from independent Small Business owners who had used these products for themselves experienced the positive changes in their own lives and wanted to share these products with other people you know were not these giant corporations that want to hold kids you know that happiest day when im in one of my stores is when one of my customers comes in and they let me know like hey im not going to be coming back and theyre not going to see me and its not because i went back to smoking its because ive not been able to quit being any of this nicotine free like you know where people who believe in the products that were selling who care very deeply about our customers and you know were as invested in their journey as they are you know we celebrate with them when theyre able to quit smoking when theyre able to quit they being and when theyre just able to go out and live their lives you know nicotine free in any form so were were not out there trying to mislead the public in any way shape or form you know im im not a doctor im not a scientist but i probably spend more time with vapors than both of your other guests combined and i know what my friends that they tell me i know what my family that tells me i know what my tens of thousands of customers that they tell me you know and i mean these these positive changes that people have seen in their lives are not diminished by this media scare that really is an illegal marijuana problem demands a raise interest in points and i wanted to bring in someone who might agree with you on you tube a couple of people actually angela says babying got me off of 45 years of smoking kools i barely any more tobacco is so much worse another person talking about reduction. Is i think people are failing to acknowledge that babying is Harm Reduction it is not healthy and thats a point that you were making earlier dr jamie what would you say to someone who is looking to stop smoking and is considering they being products as an alternative. So there are plenty of Smoking Cessation aids theres nicotine gum right theres lozenge is theres the nicotine patch there are plenty of Smoking Cessation aids i would try those 1st and amanda brings up a good point she says listen i love it when a patient or when a client of mine transitions from a regular outs i have you have one sentence left to wrap up this conversation whats the main point you want to make in a sentence if you can do it in a sense thats all i would say there were other Smoking Cessation aids to use and i would use those words while so much more still to talk about but talk to jane robert and amanda thank you for helping us understand this debate about spanking and smoking to be continued for show like i will see you next time on the string attached. To my. 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It is impossible to overstate the mental scarring of the survivors which peter lived in the home until the age of 4 when the nuns sold them all to violent family by that time hed lost his sister she like nearly 800 others the name recorded in the death for just a quarter Catholic Organization put parties in here there were baptized yet about the manger on conservation grounds savages for them become painters and the government is so frightened of the damage to the church that the full excavation would do that it is resisting its so theyre threatening court action i think the only way in which this will be resolved this through an order of the spirit courts of this country i cant see any other way because there is no will theres no wish there is no appetite church and state in this country are still wedded in a poisonous pact. Another day another explosion. From one of the thousands of i. E. D. Strewn through the landscape of this lawless tribal region in pakistan with only the most basic equipment a film this bomb Disposal Unit are determined to counter the horrors of a relentless taliban onslaught. With faith a witness documentary. On aljazeera. Protesters defy line 5 in their ranks cut about last anger against the government spreads. Im sam is a this is live from so coming up the deadline looms for kurdish fighters to leave syria will face turkish forces. Not giving up the u. K. s pride
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