Transcripts For ALJAZ The Boy Who Started The Syrian War 20240713

Millions along to you i said did you agree with that assessment of i mean this is serious stuff we could law for 23000000. 00 on pools of amphitheatres in a country where half the population lives on less than 5. 00 a day you accept. No its not a question of accepting or not accepting part of the challenge that we have is that part of that is actually Government Property which was actually for purposes of ensuring that there are Health Facilities nearby for the president to be able to be looked after or any of the stuff in 2016 there was a lot more Constitutional Court ruling that said jacob zuma should pay some money but it also ruled against the National Assembly that you speak saying you would quote fail to fulfill its constitutional obligations to hold the president accountable thats a thats an indictment of you years a sister of parliament is not an indictment of an individual because the individual actually does not determine the position that parliament or the National Assembly has actually end up taking. Democratic alliance versus speaker of the National Assembly shall you because i am the leader and therefore on behalf of the institution i become the person who is quoted you believe you are a neutral impartial speaker i was then why is it that as a neutral impartial speaker you had to apologize for calling an Opposition Leader Julius Malema a cockroach. Is that a neutral impartial. Not in parliament so lets not go see you only neutral in part. I said but even in a political context i was in the north where id had to apologize you dont sound very apollos it was not correct for me to call another person a cockroach whether. Just looking forward south africa has a new president who claims to be determined to stamp out corruption even though he himself has been accused of Misleading Parliament over a Campaign Donation and even though out of 21. 00 corruption scandals during the 25 years in office just one senior party figure has been brought to account in terms of going to jail how can anyone have confidence in the current and see government to clean things up when only one person went to prison i think you have seen the excellence of the president how he has dealt with the issues of strengthening the institutions of governance strengthening in particular the Justice System bringing in people who are going to act differently people who are going to have the courage and to do things focused on correcting what has been wrong in the system just on that one person who was sent to prison this was the former chief whip tony who was sent to jail for fraud i believe you accompanied him to the prison gates how is are not putting your party and your alliances above the interests of parliament in the country accompanied. Me because i did not believe in what he was being said to have done and i accompanied him is a complete so you dont accept the courts verdict in a democratic so im not saying that im just telling you that i need it and i dont feel guilty for that you dont can you tell our viewers what position tony and danny this ex convict was appointed to by the mc last Year Position you know he was appointed to chair of the working group on corruption. One thing person who went to prison. On corruption in the a. N. C. Political lives. We look at things sometimes not exactly the way other people like them agree with. Lets go to our panel who waited to come in im joined by mco seacoast a former m. P. Who resigned from the party in 2017 after calling for president zuma to step down following corruption allegations in your view macos and you were there for a lot of this period did the a. N. C. Fail to hold president zuma to account did the speaker fail to hold the president to account in your view of course yes i think they did fail to hold him to account and in fact some of us that were speaking out against what we saw is an attack on the constitution and on the social contract where persecuted and especially. Is somebody that i held in high esteem is somebody who will molded me as a young person and as a feminist i expected it or to have received some kind of support from her so from that point of view i honestly to think it in terms of into tisha snus leadership in treaties justness i think they have to prove themselves if they are to people leave did you fail to give them a cosi the support she needed to let it out i didnt let it down she and i had a Quick Exchange outside just to agree that we have stuff to catch up on and we will do that ok i mean im all for you catching go but just for the purposes of the people watching around the world in this room do you want to deal with the point you made down as a feminist m. P. Trying to hold the president you were there to back her oh i was there to back up when she needed security i made sure that we should look into the issues of what kind of support parliament had to ensure she had and we did. Well to that very fairly very focused said lee. Kalani is the executive chairman of south African Business abroad a member of the a. N. C. Do you think people have faith in the sea to deal with this corruption issue thats been festering on their watch especially given the current president has his own Campaign Donation issues going on where local South Africans have a huge feat in the African National congress you must remember that we inherited a situation where we have an infrastructure that was not capable to assist our people hospitals were only designed for the privilege the majority of black people were able to attend hospital if we were only 2 universities they were not there catering for black people so we put all that the government of the is have done so much for the south African People it is for that reason the low that they keep voting for them but i must add Something Else the fact that i am having this privilege to have this discussion with you in the United Kingdom it is also that the government of the n. C. We were not allowed of black people to be able to see the talk free me it was a criminal offense for me to be the last thing i wanted to see it come to the corruption issue very briefly when it happens in africa we label it as corruption but it happens in the hours of calm or m. P. Is out claiming 2 houses and we call it a scandal but when hes in africa is corruption charges leveled is the. Thank you i thank you let me bring in Andrew Feinstein is another former c m p resigned back in 2001 these are all sort of off to the party a personal journey inside the a. N. C. Is now director of corruption watch u. K. And you said you left the a. N. C. Because the government at the time refused to investigate corruption properly how bad has the corruption issue become for the South African government not just on the tab mbeki but jacob zuma and the polls. 1st of all many i think that cologne is point is very well taken i think that we mustnt lose sight of what has been done in 25 years of democracy nor lose sight of the fact that what we inherited was a systemically corrupt system because the biggest problem has been however that our only to ship including comrade and better whos been a very important leader of our liberation struggle and of our democratic era have not been prepared to call out colleagues in leadership who have engaged in corruption and that started all those years back with the arms deal that i tried to investigate in which south africa spent 10000000000. 00 on weapons that we neither needed no barely used and the primary reason that was done is because around 300000000. 00 of bribes were paid and unfortunately then president tabo mbeki was prepared to undermine our institutions of democracy including parliament that he and many others that sacrificed so much to bring about in order to cover up corruption because if that had been stopped then. I dont think we would have gone on to the state capture crisis the in canada cry let me put that point to did you never feel the need to call out your jacob zuma or did you just feel you couldnt you were in the big 6 in the leadership of the party you know there is a tendency to be even hiring for things to be damned positions to be taken against people before the actual investigation has been down but youre acting like this is just popped up now as these things were happening you were being criticized you dont just get a report from someone and they declare whatever they say whatever they believe you must do and you just hash off and do it you go to app apply your own mind into whatever people see ok right under is just right to come back in very briefly and these are constitutional bodies there was a report from the Auditor General about corruption in the arms deal in 2000 parliament decided unanimously to conduct a multiagency investigation into it it was the leadership of the a. N. C. That stopped that investigation because leadership of the a. N. C. Would themselves complicit and this is been the problem time after time the information has been there from constitutionally mandated bodies another big topic thats in the news especially right now in south africa in recent months your country seen an increase in violence and a phobic attacks foreign owned shops run sacked protests and chants of foreigners must go back to where theyve come from how worried are you about the this rise in violent racism we are very worried. And they have been statements not only from the president himself both in south africa and in neighboring countries for instance when he went to prison mugabes funeral he took the opportunity to apologize and put a perspective on what had happened it was not only foreign nationals that we cute many South Africans were also. You know victimized in that public violence our minister of International Relations has actually been having a meeting with all. Embassies or ambassadors mil you say that youre worried you say the president s worried and yet a. N. C. Ministers have kind of helped escalate this crisis you have the deputy minister of police a couple years ago saying we foreigners of taken over the city centers in johannesburg he said we fought for this land we cannot surrender it to foreign nationals that then Health Minister blamed overcrowded hospitals and diseases on foreigners this is the kind of far right xenophobic rhetoric that we see in other parts of the world leading to violence this is not helpful we nor recently at a meeting we had as the National Executive Committee Led by the president in the top 6 weve all our branches in johannesburg discussed this issue and we took a leadership position that said we must correct whoever is involved so you say you say when i want to Branch Leaders did the a. N. C. Premier of how david macor did he not get the memo because he said this year some specific crimes are committed by specific nationalities drugs there are specific nationalities how do we have so many drug terms that are operated by nigerians is that helpful rhetoric when people are being not heard fooled by this also true. Its true whats true in certain cases people have been found to be guilty of running dry or no juries in this is sam nigeria literally. You said there are many South Africans also im glad that you can where you stand on the one hand youre saying we shouldnt single them out on the other hand youre saying its true what he says when years im out it is true when it is true its true but i do condemn a statement that makes it sound like all nigerians are doing all they could be is enjoying this big when in fact we ourselves are also involved because because they are worried are you the truth about what is currently happening is that you have a quantico corrupt Police Service if you know that there are people that attack traffic in order to win something why are you not arresting them because that is a crime but you to attribute that to a specific nation ality it is in your 4 pick because you are basically inciting the communities to lies against for the nice because they would start looking at for the night is the people that are playing into that when they try trafficking is happening in collusion with the police. And do you agree with or disagree with the well meant i must take this opportunity to once again my president have turned this inside out and i think. The guests have turned to the 2 opera joys of into india and the ordinary african here or a latino with an African Heritage topologies on behalf of the South Africans in the sport of whatever but when there is a criminal element lets be able to point them out by race nationality i didnt say that i mean even the whole lot of intellect even with respect i need to learn when former president tom he said in september yes the truth of the matter is that there are nigerian criminals who are involved in drug dealing and thats true. There is no South African that goes around chasing nigerians because they are nigerians is are not denialism of the problem by no more pro let me give you more all or if you agree with that not here i have to give you what the polls that have said what you have said but stuff tested and the report says to us now 16 people have passed away on the recent incidents that are out of the 16 theres no way of know theres no one from nigeria 14 a South African one of 4 milo why are we not talking about that as facts ok let me bring in that and then feinstein its not a problem theres no issue with. The 1st is that the key roots of this problem are the levels of economic inequality that you mention in south africa and these have to be addressed id like these have to be addressed by our leadership the 2nd problem is the lack of accountability of leaders when they make statements like you mention from the premier of the how tang province that is completely unacceptable that is the language of trump and for raj that is not the language that should be coming from the leadership of the Liberation Movement with the proud tradition and history of the African National electorate rudely they. Should stop using the live language of trump and fraud that those are his with and im asking if you agree with them xenophobic it is it is if it is people in your house guilty of xenophobia some people not all senior people some. People yes. Im glad we can agree on the amount note its time for a break after a very tough join me off to the break for paul to a head to head where well hear from all very patient audience here in the oxford union and continue our discussion of the andes legacy. The most memorable moments with aljazeera was when i was on air as Hosni Mubarak fell with the crowds in Tahrir Square talking. If something happens anywhere in the world aljazeera is in place were able to cover this like no other news organization. Were able to do it properly. That is our strength. 1982 egypt and israel built on that drove away between the neighboring communities of sinai and comes out. Aljazeera. Stories from. The division. Sinai and the world. On aljazeera. Hello im daryn jordan in doha with a quick reminder the top stories. Are protesters in lebanon not planning to head back onto the streets for a 5th day despite reports the main Political Parties have agreed in principle on a package of Economic Reforms some day so the biggest drop since demonstrations began 4 days ago of a plans to raise taxes Stephanie Deca has more from beirut. To be honest all people about this tonight. Said it wasnt all that no we dont we dont care about their reforms we have a problem with the people who are running this country want them to change theyve lied to us before theyre going to lie to us again its too little too late these protests are all very cute. And you know it was like a Party Atmosphere it certainly was on friday night night when the army came down hard used tear gas and also what your can and we were there so again with these things anything can change in a 2nd Chinese Government has extended a nighttime curfew to cities across the country its in response to violent protests against a rise in trains that is at least 8 People Killed in the analyst. Early results in bolivias president ial election show that the incumbent is ahead of his rival qantas message but it appears neither have secured an outright win which means theyre likely to face a 2nd round of voting in december. In Syria Kurdish fighters and civilians are being evacuated from a strategic town near the border with turkey opening the way for turkish but rebels to take over the kurds departure from russell lane is a major condition of a cease fire deal ankara wants to establish a socalled safe zone in the area. Britains government is expected to try to put its new brigs that deal before parliament for a vote this week it could happen as early as monday on sunday the European Union said it had received u. K. Prime minister baraks johnsons unsigned letter asking for a 3 month delay to the brags that deadline of october 31st he was forced to send a letter after losing a crucial vote in parliament. And Pro Independence supporters in catalonia have protested for a 7th straight night around great about the jailing of separatist leaders the mayor of barcelona the regional capital has appealed for calm hundreds of counter protesters were also out in force they want catalonia to remain a part of spain. So those are the headlines the news continues here on aljazeera after head to head station them so much in buffalo. Welcome back youre watching had to had on aljazeera english my guest today is miss blake and betsy a former speaker of the South African Parliament former Deputy President of south africa we were talking in part one about the Political Economic legacy of a. N. C. Rule one of the low points many would argue of that period was during president tabo mbeki time in office between 1902008 his denier list positions around a and hiv and his refusal to allow antiretrovirals which lead according to a Harvard University study to more than 330000. 00 premature deaths as someone who was an ally of president mbeki at the time of someone who was Deputy Speaker and then speaker of parliament at that time what do you say to your critics who say that he and you were effectively complicit in those unnecessary deaths hundreds of thousands of people. They were putting it maybe is if we set and actually pull our tent that thousands of people must die no it was not like that it was a process of course and our role as parliament through the 11 Portfolio Committee of health is to exercise oversight over what the executive is doing and it is not as though this Health Committee was seized with the issues that whole world was trying to find out whats the best thing to do and i must say that it has been said internationally that south africa we was one of the countries where the best was being tried at all times yes all the rooms all times we made mistakes yes we did make me still ever have a frank conversation. About his views on the subject that led to so many deaths did you ever talk to him about him claiming not to know anyone who died of aids him saying theres no link between hiv and aids his Health Minister suggested you eat beetroot and garlic to combat aids did you have a pushback against any of that ridiculousness maybe it was not for me personally why you 2 liquor a pall of hope members in any scene was our share of the easy with Parliament Hours busy with all the busy people with years very busy when diane people were dying including in my own family but it does not mean we conspired and actually plot said that people should die mistakes were happening people who were making efforts are missing this a. Golic to here in the us is smaller than a mistake townsman can lead you call it madness and i can only call it an unfortunate moment in the history of south africa. Seems like an understatement given where our material died very very unfortunate moment and we wonder where the earth is old and our new used the language unfulfillment is come out of matt and were actually much better than we ever thought we were going to do that is true you have improved and i have led im glad im asking you a lot about is when people were dying and you didnt seem to be doing anything because you say you were too busy maybe im not a doctor i couldnt even if i wanted to could have said mr president youre wrong even in private if you dont want to do it publicly what did you do that i never had a private moment with you were on the nationalized committee of the i was but thats not a private ok in a room full of you and your fellow senior colleagues could have said i think this is wrong the subcommittee of health in the agency was the one that was focusing on this matter and therefore thats why as we speak today was totally out of those woods that we were in well other people at the time were speaking up and one of them was former president Nelson Mandela he made a passionate plea at the a. N. C. National executive meeting in 2002 to lease distribute the retroviral drugs to pregnant women with hiv but he was heckled by Party Members at that meeting mandela was heckled he later said it was one of the lowest moments of his career but it was a low moment for the a. N. C. Too wasnt. You dont think it was a little i mean you want me to say no no of course it was a long moment i mean one witness to form a government minister and walk around he says a. N. C. Members were like of pack of wild dogs tearing at their prey the prey being Nelson Mandela only 2 members defended mandelas right to speak out found the retroviral only to what was the point made in new recording or in these about that moment what is the power how does all take us how i belittle years is the past yes we have since come out of there and why now doing way better than what happened in the families of the people who dont want some accountability and youre not going to get it from this woman whos sitting here tonight why because with her i dont keep playing my presence they did not make me have the wherewithal at that time to understand even what the debate was about because this is one of the fundamental problems of the a. N. C. As a result of your history as a Liberation Movement the Party Loyalty and discipline and unity is always put before Everything Else and criticism debate is shut down whether its on issues around corruption under president zuma or aids under president mbeki the party sticks together and doesnt say anything publicly about the bad leadership. You know maybe right now theres a commission of inquiry headed by. Deputy chief justice was on the zonder commission why we have that commission is because of a discussion of the National Executive committee of the agency and a number of meetings insisted that we needed such a commission and that is why finally that commission was created very late in the day very late of the years of zuma very late in the day agri with you because in place saying that gene women should finish his term in parliament no youre not telling the truth yourself now did you not say that you never saw them ok thats the point i was making is that in parliament we kept saying to the president president please form the Judicial Commission of inquiry so that we can get on with this inquiry into how in fact was this state capture happening and yet president jacob zuma said in 2015 that the a. N. C. Comes before the country thats a bit of a shocking statement for the present of a country to make it so he made it. Did you condemn him at the time for making way should i do agree with the statement i dont know them or not say you disagree what are you proving his point why is your previous point no one will criticize me for no no made of the countries mechanic out thing of why didnt you do it this way why didnt you scream at that moment why didnt you shall you could have said it softly no their point though is that if a person did not respond on their way you want them to have responded so as not to mean they necessarily agreed so you disagreed quietly in prayer ok lets go to the panel who are waiting to come in im joined by under feinstein form and c m p you resigned in 2001 author of the book after the party a personal journey inside the sea you are an m. P. For the 1st 2 years i think of president term is it fair to say that the debate over the aids antiretrovirals was shot down even when raised by someone like Nelson Mandela on the 28th of september in the year 2000. He had just been at the United Nations where he had been forced to say that he was withdrawing from the science of the relationship between hiv and aids he returned to an empty caucus meeting on that day and he said i have not changed my views hiv does not cause aids the vast majority of m. P. s including the leadership cheered tabel mbeki statement this was as the corrupt arms deal was taking place and the reason i linked those 2 very quickly is because those 330000 avoidable deaths the 32000 babies who were born hiv positive every year for 5 years after that according to Harvard University was at the time that we were saying we did not have the financial resources. To provide antiretroviral medication but we were spending 10000000000. 00 on weapons that we didnt need because of the drives and it speaks finally made it to the issue of accountability and this is where the a. N. C. Has failed itself and the people of south africa so let me put that point to kalani color who is chairman of the south African Business abroad and a member of the and see deal with that point under 330000 us 32000 babies born a year with hiv is that a stain on the conscious not just of south africa but specifically of the a. N. C. In your view. Many things has been have have happened we feel sore about it but lets be honest about 2 things here the government of the African Nation Congress its own members at large they go to a National Policy conference to discuss policies how to help those who are suffering from this disease. I think there is a perception here that the media didnt translate president i will maybe never actually denied the treatment must be given he was actually looking for a long term treatment not how it was true and involved being treated in dollars well i was miss or been through it is not part and parcel of it but president was saying lets look also at the nutrition how to help or people how to look at the long term prevention under your shaking head very briefly why its very quickly i mean problem becky said explicitly that antiretrovirals kill the problem is the taboo and becky bought into the dissident science on hiv and aids and to his credit. Jacob zuma did not and ultimately rejected it but hundreds of thousands of South Africans avoidably lost their lives ok because as a former n. Z. M. P. Who resigned in 27 team after calling for president zuma to step down following corruption allegations because i asked somebody about whether Party Loyalty is considered to be more important in the a. N. C. Than the interests of the country she said she disagreed with jacob zuma statement which he made in 2015 saying emcees above the country is an accurate description of how the a. N. C. And its leaders behave well certainly from the experience that i have because i chose to play the constitution of the country but i was disciplined for not at hearing to the party position. Notwithstanding that i too want to comment on this. I really do think that we have to meet that at its initial stages it was tragic a lot of women in particular lost in their lives and i dont think we should sugar coat our mistake we should at need but what is good is that the a. N. C. Did at some point to listen to Civil Society and they did a tear to the will of the people and hence the many lives were saved ok. Or not note were going to shift to our audience whove been waiting here in new york for union to come in. Here in the 2nd row thank you to mila publica while the state was being looted universities were being chronically underfunded and in 2015 in 2016 the fees must for movement shook the country and put this on the National Agenda many of us suffered injuries from Police Brutality at the time in fact some students were killed Benjamin Petilla was killed by police how do you as an activist reconcile that the policing in south africa right now by the a. N. C. Is reminiscent of the policing and apartheid that you yourself were a victim of as an activist at the time thank you. To it where police have been brutal their law must take its course against them as well. And so we as government cannot be hippie with bad elements among the Police Elements that still exhibit signs of really actually being more like the old order and therefore i agree with you that where police are behaving brutally they should also be dealt with as criminals no one has been held accountable they are because i know with the meanest output discuss these issues and in fact there is a programme putting an eye on the conduct of the police themselves is a different minister of police to the one with the Swimming Pool video no yes its a new minister. Lets go to the back good evening member lekha we find ourselves in what can be termed as the perfect storm as a nation in south africa and we find ourselves at a time that we deeply divided and were also all introspecting as a nation could you kindly share what your outlook is for south africa especially for young people and also what your message would be to potential Young Leaders to convince them to stay in south africa thank you whats your message to Young Leaders stay in south africa i think Young Leaders must know that south africa the future of our country in fact must be their consent they must be involved they must find forums where they must participate in different sectors where they can also contribute towards becoming active. Decision makers about their own future. Of the struggle against the corner you see the place in south africa been heard a kind of my question is for the maracana incident. On the 6 in the focused no one has been brought to counter that so what are you doing about it is there culture of impunity in south africa hes asking about the merican a massacre 201234 mine workers who were killed by police no one has been held to account for the 7 years later what are you doing told me what the Police Accountable now and find out. Hold on the american massacre is a big star and i know he does not find out more information im just saying i have to add my information but youre aware no one is being held to account for the killing of 34 people some of them were not to show up at that thats why i must find out i mean were pretty sure because we looked into it 34 people i want to be held you know i know that i know how many people died very briefly the commissioner of police if you remember very carefully she was recalled from the position he. Saw something have happened while 34 people dead and someone got fired you said nothing of happy number i meant in terms of process im guessing he meant in terms of putting people in prison for killing people and shooting them in the back to the audience member asked about people going to prison youre aware that no Police Officer went to prison specifically for killing any of the 34 people is that wrong with that role and saying my own information needs to be ok and if its updated and find out that nobody went to prison is that wrong do you think someone should have gone to prison. Because people were killed ok this gentleman in the brown jacket. In 2017 you said following the fall of Robert Mugabe the military coup in zimbabwe one and im quoting your words when one member of the 1st family grace mugabe thinks he has the right to determine who should be thrown out of the ruling party. I think anybody you meant the military in this case has the right and responsibility to intervene now since 27 his civilian military Coalition Government has taken over in zimbabwe that when abductions shootings by the milage in the street economic downturn and persistent risk of another coup my question is do you still think militaries have a responsibility to intervene in politics in light of these development did you support a military intervention in zimbabwe i thought it was great that intervention was politically motivated it happened to be an initiative of military people. Was a coup was it a military coup because it was the military then i guess who will do but im saying there was a crisis is easy and folding in zimbabwe do you think it was better for that i think that intervention helped zanu p. F. Ok were going to. Go to the back judge when the glass is there my grandmother and mother kitty to care for in c. K. Does and taught them how to create an Education System in iraq they remember. I was one of the people with the open border policy in south africa who was able to become a doctor and a Rhodes Scholar here and i only became a citizen in south africa a month ago and i am deeply hurt that people like me have no future in the country because we are seen as being zimbabweans and nigerians who conduct crime how can i tell my girlfriend to come back to south africa with me to contribute for a future. Can you please take this opportunity to think about your views with your heart when people like my grandmother thought for your liberation in south africa not knowing when it would come ok. Thank goodness it was it is exactly people cause as the a. N. C. Weve been thinking with our hearts that we are in the problem that we have when we were hoping it would work for us all to live together in our communities and like where we lived in in the refugee camps when we were in other countries and unfortunately it has not wet and what we are saying is let us sit down to gather with you and your girlfriend and talk about the reality. Just today to challenge you saying you want to see it to use kind of quote unquote western lingo tougher border controls tougher migration policies less immigrants is that what youre trying to say weve got weve got to man the jews coming into the borders like every country does every country does not just allow anyone to come in without proper documents and come and do as you like but worried about going on here about scapegoating immigrants for some. Breaking laws of the country very very quickly we dont allow. Very briefly because it was very pretty step the point what im hearing because this this means that south africa will never be developed because if we as South Africans are going to take an exceptionally stiff view that means we will never be able to integrate our economies south africa in chinese thames its just a village where only 56000000 people and i think we ought to begin to think a product than just thinking of south africa is a Little Island in exceptional terrace. Ill come to the general and then well go to the general. Good evening i just want to ask you why is it so difficult for any cigar meant to solve a live issue problem in your country because 72 percent of farm land is owned by white minority thats where the problem is which you are facing right now is going to be a time bomb. It is a problem. I agree with you we must deal with it we have not been great at it in the past 2 decades or 2 and a half decades and we asked seized with it right now. President of course the named cabinet consisting of 50 percent of women so do you think in the next decade maybe well have a woman president thank you. I hope so. Do you want to throw your hat in the ring or young you know. Generally so an article in 2017 bbs news referred to the government as a organized Crime Syndicate and levels of criminality in the government have reached such stages where theyve resulted in a breaking down of moral and social fiber of the country and Violent Crime has flourished to stream levels with is on average 56 murders and 100000 rapes every single day my question is because this seems to be a theme of denial both here tonight and not taking responsibility for anything what responsibility do you take as a Senior Member of the a. N. C. I think we cant blame the problems of south African Society on the a. N. C. Creamy nally has been in south africa for more than 3 centuries especially after the colonial days came and brought cry from the euro to africa and though you can say they. Brought hold all over me now you are sitting in the u. K. Lets be clear the British Empire did do exactly what you just said but they did to a lot of countries why is it south africa has the 5th highest murder rate in the world in 2015 im wondering. The United Nations you may have. Been a little while so what ok it was a no you know world bank were way over on times its going to be the last question i hope its a really good one no pressure. From a speaker welcome to the space my question is in light of ways of africa finds itself in both politically economically and socially. How do you see your role in the facilitation of the erosion of Public Institutions in south africa and what would you have done differently that is a question. I have no me outside of the collective that is my home politically you know i do decently as an individual and as you could have done anything differently over the last i dont have a person on space to do things you know personally as an individual really no. One last question for me chris harney the antiapartheid icon who was killed 26 years ago he said in october 1902 what i fear is that the liberators emerge as elitists who drive around in a sadies benzs and use the resources of this country to live in palaces and gather riches was he rather prophetically describe in the south africa of 29220 to a certain extent as weve been finding out about the kinds of things that some of us some of our own people have been doing and i am saying. Its not a bad thing that that is coming out is actually a good thing because then only can we at all not know misspoken better well have to leave it there thanks to our audience here in the oxford union thanks to our panel of experts here and thank you to you for joining us head to head back next year thanks for watching at home and. Hello there we have some rain showers across sections of the middle east you can see the cloud in the last few hours weve got of thunderstorms as well that continue to work their way eastwards over the next couple of days now monday some fairly widespread rain through central and eastern turkey pushing eastwards into Northern Iraq all of it towards iran as well temperatures a little bit lower because of this rain and this cloud and then choose day it sings for the south was all there is unlike youll get a shower across into baghdad but a high time to the 34 celsius and again it clear away from the eastern end of the mediterranean 21 in kabul and fairly clear cloudy skies now across the Arabian Peninsula weve got temperatures generally in the mid to low thirtys and again things beginning to fill best limited levels have been coming down steadily so fatal change monday into tuesday 31 celsius in moscow 35 over in doha and then we had down into Southern Africa a dry couple of days ahead into madagascar also mozambique dry as we go through monday maybe just a few showers really on that fall south coast of south africa but staying dry in cape town at 20 celsius double a bit of an unsubtle flow for the next couple days so the chances of showers cooler on choose day and thunderstorms and john is the 32. Told just there i. Really dont believe in the 2 state solution the do you still believe in the 2 state solution we listen what i said was that pakistan would never start a war im anti war we meet with global news makers and talk about the stories that matter just 0. Mass protests continue overnight in lebanon a Cabinet Meeting is due to begin shortly to approve measures to fix the deepening economic crisis. Hello im daryn jordan the saudis iran live from doha also coming up bolivias president looks like to face a Runoff Election as he attempts to secure a 4th consecutive term in power. For the. State of emergency is extended to more parts of chile as anger grows despite the president reversing a hike in train facts. And australias newspapers blackout their front pages accusing the government of a clampdown on press freedom. Protests are spreading across lebanon then a general strike is planned even as politicians try to agree a package of reforms aimed at solving an economic crisis thousands of people stayed out all night chanting and waving the lebanese flag the Prime Minister saad hariri is holding a Cabinet Meeting later this hour the ministers will try to approve measures report to be agreed by partners in the Coalition Government well harry reids plan reported includes a 50 percent cut in the salaries of current and former president s ministers and m. P. s and more than 3000000000. 00 in contributions from. Banks to achieve a 0 deficit in the 2020 budget it also involves a revamp of the telecoms and Electricity Sector which is a crucial day long from potential foreign done as an investor has to unlock 11000000000 dollars in funds joins us live now from the lebanese capital samus another big night of demonstrations last night in the protesters have called for a general strike today what do we expect them. Well protesters are back on the streets he said that there was a late night to protest yes massive demonstrations not only in the lebanese capital but across the country protesters have called for a general strike shops and schools universities banks theyre all closed in fact in many ways protesters have taken over the streets there blocking roads its very difficult to move around the capital and its also very difficult to reach one city to another highways are being blocked so the protesters piling yet more pressure on the government which in the next half hour will be meeting Prime Minister sato is going to present his new economic plan to his ministers and theyre expected to approve the plan and then the Prime Minister is supposed to address the nation but we understand that economic plan doesnt involve imposing new taxes on the poor and this is what triggered the protests because there were reports on thursday that the government intended to impose yet more taxes on the people in order to raise revenues but for the people here its too little too late what theyre saying is that the government should have done this earlier if theyre able to do this why now these are corrupt officials and we have no faith in the protesters have outlined exactly what they want they want the government to resign they want the Transitional Council to take over that council is to be made up of judges who do not have any political affiliations and that they want early elections but they want the elections to be held under a new law that lebanon will become one single constituents. Which means people from different sects will no longer be electing people from their own sect so the aim really is to eliminate political sectarianism in the country but many will tell you their demands are under realistic its highly unlikely that the political elites will agree to that already the Ruling Alliance has refused to resign saying those who say the protesters demands will be difficult to achieve is this will require the political elite giving up power so what is this protest movement achieved so far that. Well daryn in many many ways a revolution has already happened in lebanon demonstrations are not rare theyre quite common but the crowd of this size some are estimating more than a 1000000 some say almost 2000000 in a country of 5000000 people its very hard to independently confirm the numbers but there is no doubt a large crowd and widespread not only in beirut spontaneous this is not being mobilized by any Political Party these are the people who are fed up theyre also rising in their traditional strongholds sects are are rising up against sectarian leaders which is very very rare especially in she areas which are controlled by the speaker and everybodys imo movement and the iranian backed hezbollah people rising up these people were following these these parties for ideological and religious reasons and this is why it just goes to show you how dire the Economic Conditions are here people are no are able to survive they feel that their politicians are just becoming richer and they are becoming poorer so in many ways a revolution some sort of a revolution has happened things have changed there is a new beginning but where will this lead its very hard to answer that especially since weve seen this in the past weve seen the army and Security Forces use force to disperse crowds so this is something people here are worried about but for the time being theyre holding on to their demands theres defiance and in many ways theyre controlling the streets. In the lebanese capital beirut say not. Now preliminary Election Results in bolivia put president item on as a head but it looks like hell have to face a runoff in december or honest doesnt appear to have enough support to win a 4th term in office outright john holeman reports from the paths. Of the bolivian president ial elections looks set for a 2nd round the 1st time since ever more oil is surged to power nearly 14 years ago preliminary results show the incumbent picking up 45 percent of the vote was his nearest challenger Carlos Messer not far behind with 38 enough for a runoff. And celebrated as if it was a win it so. Says that at the moment this is a Crucial Point after almost 14 long years the bolivian people have taken a decision in defense of a democracy that needs to be consolidated and renovated. The president were and is didnt accept these results is definitive 83 percent of the votes have been counted so far he believes those still to rifle through areas give him an out right when he goes hit the general as always we trust the vote in the countryside thats why were going to wait until the last vote is being counted to continue with our process of change fire whatever happens this election is being seen as a setback for a man whos used to winning by a landslide ever moralities his supporters celebrating the fact that it did come 1st in this round of voting but in the last election because 60 percent of the phone so its popularity pretty has come down. To bolivians a divided many like schoolteaching learn to keep faith with the president hes always tough poverty and kept the economy growing again assented. In the government but full morality that wasnt development they had the chance and they didnt do it ever arrived and made the economy. Grow it might not have got to all of it but he has tried. And if you eric thinks differently about the longest standing president of bolivia is history getting were going to. You know was we want to see a new candidate whos going to take the country to a Better Future we think that with evo will just stagnate. A mini its not just a desire for change through also worried that were alice is slowly eroding democracy in the country. Just to run in this election to change the constitution and defied a referendum in which the electorate never really rejected. I guess they could be away for up to 7 days the remaining 1st from votes to be counted and to see if the president or allison his followers have a full term to celebrate or another elect told battle the herds john holdren 00 pas. U. S. Troops have crossed into iraq as part of their withdrawal from Northern Syria its believed at least 19 vehicles have gone to the sahana Border Crossing in the northern province of the hook they heading into territory controlled by the peshmerga in Northern Iraq semi autonomous kurdish region the pentagon says just troops will carry on the fight against iceland from there u. S. President donald trump called American Forces out of syria making way for a turkish little peroration against u. S. Backed kurdish fighters well in syria the Kurdish Syrian Democratic forces say its fighters are pulled out of a strategic town near the border civilians and hospital patients have also been evacuated from ras alain the departure from the town is a major condition of a u. S. Brokered ceasefire deal it gave the Kurdish Militia 5 days to leave and then on tuesday evening wants to establish what it calls a safe zone between its border and territory controlled by the s. D. F. Which are structured as more now in the turkey syria border. Certainly according to a Statement Released now by the f. D. A. If those Kurdish Forces today saying that there are no s. T. s fighters left in. Russell laine they say that they left along with what we understand could well be at least a couple of 100 civilians wounded civilians wounded fighters in the 2nd to calm voice the 1st one having gone in yesterday. So yes the s. D. F. Saying that their fighters have now with the jewel from that town. Just to talk a little bit about russell line it just being the focus of some of the heaviest fighting in the build up to this cease fire. We saw predominately what we believe to be. Sorry syrian fighters these are the Free Syrian Army fighters that have created a full frontal just fight fighting alongside the turks they effectively surrounded that city that was besieged. For well over a week so there were huge concerns for the civilians trapped inside a great relief that they are out now but what remains to be seen and what needs to be attention. Needs to be focused upon is the fact that the president or the one wants this has proposed a safety zone to be 440 kilometers along the border and around 30 kilometers deep inside syria what we understand is that according to the s. D. S. They had agreed to withdraw all their fighters from russell line to tell labia which effectively is around 120 kilometers in distance between the 2 so were having some analysts estimating that only around the very most 25 percent of the area within that proposed safety zone. As to force these have moved out from that area when you have threats from president obama saying that effectively in 48 hours this temporary cease fire. Aims and if those if the if force is havent been havent left that area in full military operations will. You draws great great attention to the concerns of United Nations aid agencies for the work in this area the pressure to potentially hundreds of thousands more civilians will be trapped in another conflict zone. When we come back canadians head to a general election which is being seen as a battle between progressive and conservative values. In indian administered kashmir is affecting farmers their state