Transcripts For ALJAZ NEWSHOUR 20240713

Millions along to you i said did you agree with that assessment of i mean this is serious stuff we could law for 23000000. 00 on pools of amphitheatres in a country where half the population lives on less than 5. 00 a day you accept a net and lets use no its not a question of accepting or not accepting part of the challenge that we have is that part of that is actually Government Property which was actually for purposes of ensuring that there are Health Facilities nearby for the president to be able to be looked after or any of the stuff in 2016 there was a Landmark Constitutional Court ruling that said. Jacob zuma should pay some money but it also ruled against the National Assembly that you were speaker saying you would quote fail to fulfill its constitutional obligations to hold the president accountable thats a thats an indictment of you years a speaker of parliament is not an indictment of an individual because the individual actually does not determine the position that parliament or the National Assembly actually end up taking. Democratic alliance versus speaker of the National Assembly shall you because i am their leader and therefore on behalf of the institution i become the person who is quoted do you believe you are a neutral impartial speaker. Then why is it that you as a neutral impartial speaker you had to apologize for calling an Opposition Leader Julius Malema a cockroach at an a. N. C. Rally is not a neutral impartial. Not in parliament so lets not go see you only neutral in part. I said but even you know political context i was in the north where id had to apologize you dont sound very apollos it was not correct for me to call another person a cockroach whether im. Just looking forward south africa has a new president who claims to be determined to stamp out corruption even though he himself has been accused of Misleading Parliament over a Campaign Donation and even though out of 21. 00 corruption scandals during the 25 years in office just one senior party figure has been brought to account in terms of going to jail how can anyone have confidence in the current government to clean things up when only one person went to prison i think you have seen the excellence of the president. How he has dealt with the issues of strengthening the institutions of governance strengthening in particular the Justice System bringing in people who are going to act differently people who are going to have the courage and to do things focused on correcting what has been wrong in the system just on the one person who was sent to prison this was the former chief whip tony who was sent to jail for fraud i believe you accompanied him to the prison gate how is are not putting your party and your alliances above the interests of parliament in the country accompanied. Me because i did not believe in what he was being said to have done and i accompanied him as a complete so you dont accept the courts verdict in a democratic so im not saying that im just telling you that company. And i dont feel guilty for that you dont can you tell our viewers what position tony and danny this ex convict was appointed to by the mc last Year Position he was appointed to chair of the working group on corruption. One thing how you personally went to prison. On corruption in the a. N. C. Political lives. We look at things sometimes not exactly the way other people like there and agree with. Lets go to our panel who waited to come in im joined by mco seacoast a former m. P. Who resigned from the party in 2017 after calling for president zuma to step down following corruption allegations in your view macos and you were there for a lot of this period did the a. N. C. Fail to hold president zuma to account did the speaker fail to hold the president to account in your view of course yes i think they did fail to hold him to account and in fact some of us that were speaking out against what we saw is an attack on the constitution and on to social contract where persecuted and especially. Is somebody that i held in high esteem is somebody who will molded me as a young person and as a feminist i expected to date or to have receive some kind of support from her so from that point of view i honestly do think it in terms of into tisha snus leadership in treaties justness i think they have to prove themselves if they are to people lived did you fail to give them a cosi the support she needed to let it out i didnt let it down she and i had a Quick Exchange outside just to agree that we have stuff to catch up on and we will do that ok i mean im all for you catching go but just for the purposes of the people watching around the world in this room do you want to deal with the point you made it down as a feminist as an m. P. Trying to hold the president you were there to back her oh i was there to back up when she needed security i made sure that we should look into the issues of what kind of support parliament had to ensure she had and we did. Well to with that very fairly very focused said lee. Kalani is the executive chairman of south African Business abroad a member of the a. N. C. Do you think people have faith in the sea to deal with this corruption issue thats been festering on their watch especially given the current president has his own Campaign Donation issues going on where local South Africans have a huge feat in the African National congress you must remember that we inherited a situation where we have an infrastructure that was not capable to assist our people hospitals were only designed for the privilege the majority of black people were able to attend hospital if we were only 2 universities they were not there catering for black people so all that the government of the is have done so much for the south African People it is for that reason the low that they keep voting for them but i must add Something Else the fact that i am having this privilege to have this discussion with you in the United Kingdom it is also that the government of the n. C. We were not allowed of black people to be able to see the talk free me it was a criminal offense for me to be here the last thing i wanted to see it come to the corruption issue very briefly when it happens in africa we label it as corruption but it happens in the hours of come on m. P. Is out came into houses and we call it a scandal but when hes in africa as corruption charges make will receive a. Thank you i thank you let me bring in Andrew Feinstein is another former sea m. P. Resigned back in 2001 these are all 3 of after the party a personal journey inside the a. N. C. Is now director of corruption watch u. K. And you said you left the a. N. C. Because the government at the time refused to investigate corruption properly how bad has the corruption issue become for the South African government not just on the tab mbeki but jacob zuma and the polls. 1st of all many i think that kalani is point is very well taken i think that we mustnt lose sight of what has been done in 25 years of democracy nor lose sight of the fact that what we inherited was a systemically corrupt system the biggest problem has been however that our only to ship including comrade and better whos been a very important leader of our liberation struggle and of our democratic era have not been prepared to call out colleagues in leadership who have engaged in corruption and that started all those years back with the arms deal that i tried to investigate in which south africa spent 10000000000. 00 on weapons that we neither needed no barely used and the primary reason that was done is because around 300000000. 00 of bribes were paid and unfortunately then president tabo mbeki was prepared to undermine our institutions of democracy including parliament that he and many others that sacrificed so much to bring about in order to cover up corruption if that had been stopped then. I dont think we would have gone on to the state capture crisis the in canada cry let me put that point to did you never feel the need to call out your jacob zuma or did you just feel you couldnt you were in the big 6 in the leadership of the party you know there is a tendency to be even hiring for things to be damned positions to be taken against people before the actual investigation has been down but youre acting like this is just popped up now as these things were happening you were being criticized you dont just get a report from someone and they declare whatever they say whatever they believe you must do and you just hash off and do it you go to app apply your own mind into whatever people see ok right under just right to come back in very briefly and these are constitutional bodies there was a report from the Auditor General about corruption in the arms deal in 2000 parliament decided unanimously to conduct a multiagency investigation into it it was the leadership of the a. N. C. That stopped that investigation because leadership of the a. N. C. Would themselves complicit and this is been the problem time after time the information has been there from constitutionally mandated bodies another big topic thats in the news especially right now in south africa in recent months your country seen an increase in violence and a phobic attacks foreign owned shops run sacked protests and chants of foreigners must go back to where theyve come from how worried are you about the this rise in violent racism we are very worried. And they have been statements not only from the president himself both in south africa and in a neighboring countries for instance when he went to prison mugabes funeral he took the opportunity to apologize and put a perspective on what had happened it was not only foreign nationals that we cute many South Africans were also. Victimized in that public violence our minister of International Relations has actually been having a meeting with all. Embassies or m. Ambassadors will you say that youre worried you say the president s worried and yet a. N. C. Ministers have kind of helped escalate this crisis you have the deputy minister of police a couple years ago saying we foreigners of taken over the city centers in johannesburg he said we fought for this land we cannot surrender it to foreign nationals but then the Health Minister blamed overcrowded hospitals and diseases on foreigners this is the kind of far right xenophobic rhetoric that we see in other parts of the world leading to violence this is not helpful we nor recently at a meeting we had as the National Executive Committee Led by the president in the top 6 weve all our branches in johannesburg discuss these issues and we took a leadership position that said we must correct whoever is involved so you say you say when i want to Branch Leaders did the a. N. C. Premier of how david macor did he not get the memo because he said this year some specific crimes are committed by specific nationalities drugs there are specific nationalities how do we have so many drug duns that are operated by nigerians is that helpful rhetoric when people are being not heard fooled by does also true. Its true whats true in certain cases people have been found to be guilty of running dry or no juries in this is sam nigeria literally. You said there are many South Africans also im cousin you can where you stand on the one hand youre saying we shouldnt single them out on the other hand youre saying its true what he says when years im out it is true when it is true its true but i do condemn a statement that makes it sound like all nigerians are doing all they criminality is in johannesburg when in fact we ourselves are also involved because because they are worried are you the truth about what is currently happening is that you have a quantico corrupt Police Service if you know that there are people that attack trafficking or doing something why are you not a listing them because that is a crime but at that specific nation ality it is enough for pick because you are basically inciting the communities to rise against for the nice because they would start looking at for the night is the people that appearing in tribes when they tried trafficking is happening in collusion with the police. And do you agree with or disagree with the well meant i must take this opportunity to once again my president have turned this inside out and i think. The guests have turned to the to apologize even to any other ordinary african here or a latino with an African Heritage topologies on behalf of the sort of indians in the sport of whatever but when theres a criminal element lets be able to point them out by race nationality i didnt say that i mean even though its a lot of out of human activity with respect i need to learn when former president he said in september yes the truth of the matter is that there are nigerian criminals who are involved in drug dealing and thats true. There is no South African that goes around chasing nigerians because they are nigerians is are not denialism of the problem by me give you more in all or if you agree with that so here i have to give you what the polls that have said what you have said by the stars test it and the report says to us now 16 people have passed away on the recent incidents that are out of the 16 theres no way of know theres no one from nigeria 14 a South African oneness or milo why are we not talking about that as facts ok let me bring that under feinstein its not a problem theres no issue with. The 1st is that a key roots of this problem are the levels of economic inequality that you mention in south africa and these have to be addressed id like these have to be addressed by our leadership the 2nd problem is a lack of accountability of leaders when they make statements like you mention from the premier of the how tang province that is completely unacceptable that is the language of trump and for raj that is not the language that should be coming from the leadership of the Liberation Movement with the proud tradition and history of the African National electorate rudely they. Should stop using the lead language of trump and fraud that those are his with and im asking if you agree with them xenophobic it is it is if it is people in your house guilty of xenophobia some people are not all senior people some. Senior people yes. Im glad we can agree on that on that note its time for a break after a very lively 1st half join me after the break for part 2 of head to head where well hear from our very patient audience here in the oxford union and continue our discussion of the andes legacy. To strengthen the good you have to do good all the more with the fight against corruption. Heroes like new who are about to be refused a 15000000. 00 brian the achievement of heroes like him to showcase by the international. It shines a light on these heroes because your best way to fight a dark used to shine the light lets make a router bit to please. Your anti corruption. Counting the cost the 7. 00 word tweet the prove. How china silence his critics that eyes access to its 14 trillion dollar economy the cost of hiring at oil tanker is soaring for the lazy and fishermen are facing financial losses counting the cost. Hello im Lauren Taylor none of the top stories on ars are lebanons Prime Minister saad hariri has given rival groups in his government 72 hours to unite and get behind his reform plans hes addressed the nation in mass protests over Economic Conditions at least 2 people have died during the demonstrations protesters are demanding the resignation of the government they accuse their leaders of looting and bankrupting the country which is in a severe economic crisis the latest protests were triggered by new taxes including a fee to use whatsapp that was scrapped but people are still out on the streets. Board. I am giving our partners in the government a very short deadline 72 hours to give us a solution like and visit us and the people in the streets and our International Partners violent protests are taking place in barcelona after hundreds of thousands of people descended on the city in a show of support for 9 jailed cattle and separatist leaders right police fired rubber bullets at several 100 people who surrounded the National Police headquarters and set fire to the streets spains acting interior minister has warned violent protesters they faced up to 6 years in prison the rest follows a day of largely Peaceful Demonstrations more than 500000 people converged on the catalan regional capital in a mass show of support for the politicians they were handed like lengthy jail sentences for their role in catalonia failed independence bid 2 years ago. The turkish president richard one says the offensive in northeast syria will resume quote within minutes if kurdish fighters dont abide by the terms of the cease fire the 5 day truce is largely holding so far theres been some unverified reports of sporadic fighting a cease fire agreed by the United States and turkey is supposed to allow kurdish led s. T. s fight is to leave areas controlled by turkish forces. At least 62 people have been killed in an explosion at a mosque in afghanistan the attack happened in the House Community street to the east 9 the hard times where shippers had gathered in a mosque for friday prayers explosion caused the buildings roof to collapse injuring dozens more no one has claimed responsibility for the attack those were the top stories do stay with us head to head continues next and ill be back after that with a news acid do join me then if you can thanks so much watching i found. Thank you by your watching head to head on aljazeera english my guest today is miss blake and betty former speaker of the South African Parliament former Deputy President of south africa we were talking in part one about the Political Economic legacy of a. N. C. Rule one of the low points many would argue of that period was during president tabo mbeki time in office between 9992008 his dinner list positions around aids and hiv and his refusal to allow antiretrovirals which lead according to a Harvard University study to more than 330000. 00 premature deaths as someone who was an ally of president mbeki at the time or someone who was Deputy Speaker and then speaker of parliament at that time what do you say to your critics who say that he and you were effectively complicit in those unnecessary deaths hundreds of thousands of people. They were putting it maybe is if we sat and actually pull our tent that thousands of people must die no it was not like that it was a process of course and our role as parliament through the little relevant Portfolio Committee of health is to exercise oversight over what the executive is doing and it is not as though this Health Committee was seized with the issues that whole world was trying to find out was the best thing to do and i must say that it has been said internationally that south africa we was one of the countries where the best was being tried at all times yes all the rooms all times we made mistakes yes we did make me still ever have a frank conversation. About his views on the subject that led to so many deaths did you ever talk to him about him claiming not to know anyone who died of aids him saying theres no link between hiv and aids his Health Minister suggested you eat beetroot and garlic to combat aids did you have a pushback against any of that ridiculousness. Maybe it was not for me personally why you tunic of pall of hope members in any scene was our share of the easy with Parliament Hours busy with all the busy people with years very busy when diane people were dying including in my own family but it does not mean we conspired and actually plot said that people should die mistakes were happening people who were making efforts are missing this a. Golic to here in the us is smaller than a mistake townsman can lead you call it madness and i can only call it an unfortunate moment in the history of south africa. Seems like an understatement given where our material died very very unfortunate moment and we wonder where verse is out and out when you use the language unfulfillment is come out of matt and were actually much better than we ever thought we were going to do that is true you have improved and i have led im glad im asking you a lot about is when people were dying and you didnt seem to be doing anything because you say you were too busy maybe im not a doctor i couldnt even if i wanted to could have said mr president youre wrong even in private if you dont want to do it publicly what did you do that i never had a private moment with you were on the National Committee of the i was but thats not a private ok in a room full of you and your fellow senior colleagues could have said i think this is wrong the subcommittee of health in the a. N. C. Was the one that was focusing on this matter and therefore thats why as we speak today totally out of those that we were well other people at the time were speaking up and one of them was former president Nelson Mandela he made a passionate plea at the a. N. C. National executive meeting in 2002 to lease distribute until retroviral drugs to pregnant women with hiv but he was heckled by Party Members at that meeting mandela was heckled he later said it was one of the lowest moments of his career but it was a low moment for the a. N. C. Too wasnt. You dont think it was a little warm you want me to say no no of course it was a long moment i mean one witness to form a government minister and walk around at lodhi says a. N. C. Members were like of pack of wild dogs tearing at their prey the prey being Nelson Mandela only 2 members defended mandelas right to speak out found the retroviral only but whats the point made in new recording or these about that moment what is the power how does all take us how ability years is the past yes we have since come out of there and lie now doing way better than what happened in the families of the people who dont want some accountability and youre not going to get it from this woman whos sitting here tonight why because with her i dont keep my presence they did not make me have the wherewithal at that time to understand even what the debate was about because this is one of the fundamental problems of the a. N. C. As a result of your history of the Liberation Movement the Party Loyalty and discipline and unity is always put before Everything Else and criticism debate is shut down whether its on issues around corruption under president zuma or aids under president mbeki the party sticks together and doesnt say anything publicly about the bad leadership. You know maybe right now theres a commission of inquiry headed by. Deputy chief justice was on the zonder commission why we have that commission is because of it discussion of the National Executive committee of the agency and a number of meetings insisted that we needed such a commission and that is why finally that commission was created very late in the day very late of the years of zuma very late in the dad grew with you because in less saying that gene women should finish his term in parliament no youre not telling the truth yourself now did you not say that no you never saw them ok but the point i was making is that in parliament we kept saying to the president president please form the Judicial Commission of inquiry so that we can get on with this inquiry into how in fact was this state capture happening and yet president jacob zuma said in 2015 that the a. N. C. Comes before the country thats a bit of a shocking statement for the present of a country to make it. So he made it. Did you condemn him at the time for making way should i do agree with the statement i dont know them or not so you disagree what are you proving his point why is your previous point no one will criticize me for oh no made of the country this mechanic out thing off why didnt you do it this way why didnt you scream at that moment why didnt you shall you could have said it softly no their point though is that if a person did not do this on their way you want them to have responded so as not to mean they necessarily be agreed so you disagreed quietly ok lets go to the panel who are waiting to come in im joined by under feinstein former and c m p you resigned in 2001 author of the book after the party a personal journey inside the sea you are an m. P. For the 1st 2 years i think of president term is it fair to say that the debate over the aids antiretrovirals was shut down even when raised by someone like Nelson Mandela on the 28th of september in the year 2000 and becky had just been at the United Nations where he had been forced to say that he was withdrawing from the science of the relationship between h. I. V. And aids he returned to an empty caucus meeting on that day and he said i have not changed my views hiv does not cause a the vast majority of m. P. s including the leadership cheered tabel mbeki statement this was as the corrupt arms deal was taking place and the reason i linked those 2 very quickly is because of those 330000 avoidable deaths the 32000 babies who were born hiv positive every year for 5 years after that according to Harvard University. It was at the time that we were saying we did not have the Financial Resources to provide antiretroviral medication but we were spending 10000000000. 00 on weapons that we didnt need because of the bribes and it speaks finally made it to the issue of accountability and this is where the a. N. C. Has failed itself and the people of south africa so let me put that point to kalani color who is chairman of the south African Business abroad and a member of the and see deal with that point under 330000 us 32000 babies born a year with hiv is that a stain on the conscious not just of south africa but specifically of the a. N. C. In your view. Many things has been have have happened we feel sore about it but lets be honest about 2 things here the government of the African Nation Congress its own members that they go to a National Policy conference to discuss policies how to help those who are suffering from this disease. I think there is a perception here that the media didnt translate president i will maybe never actually denied the treatment must be given he was actually looking for a long term treatment not how it was true and involved being treated in dollars well i was miss or been through it is not part and parcel of it but president was saying lets look also at the nutrition how to help or people how to look at the long term prevention under your shaking head very briefly ways very quickly i mean problem becky said explicitly that antiretrovirals kill the problem is the taboo mbeki bought into the Decision Science on hiv and aids and to his credit. Jacob zuma did not and ultimately rejected it but hundreds of thousands of South Africans avoidably lost their lives ok because as a former n. Z. M. P. Resigned in 27 team after calling for president zuma to step down following corruption allegations because i asked betty about whether the Party Loyalty is considered to be more important in the a. N. C. Than the interests of the country she said she disagreed with jacob zuma statement which he made in 2015 saying seize above the country is an accurate description of how the a. N. C. And its leaders behave well certainly from the experience that i have because i chose to abide by the constitution of the country but i was disciplined for not at hearing to the party position. Notwithstanding i do want to comment on this. I really do think that we have to meet that at its initial stages it was tragic a lot of women in particular lost in their lives and i dont think we should sugar coat our mistake we should at need but what is good is that the a. N. C. Did at some point to listen to Civil Society and they did a tear to the will of the people and hence the many lives were saved. Or not note were going to shift to our audience whove been waiting here to come in. Here in the 2nd row thank you to mila publica while the state was being looted universities were being chronically underfunded and in 2015 in 2016 the fees must for movement shook the country and put this on the National Agenda many of us suffered injuries from Police Brutality at the time in fact some students were killed Benjamin Petilla was killed by police how do you as an activist reconcile that the policing in south africa right now by the a. N. C. Is reminiscent of the policing and apartheid that you yourself were a victim of as an activist at the time thank you. I think when police have been brutal the law must take its course them as well and so we as government cannot be hippie with a bad elements among the Police Elements that still exhibit signs of really actually being more like the old order and therefore agri with you that where police are behaving brutally they should also be dealt with as criminals no one has been held accountable they add because i know with the meanest output lease we discuss these issues and in fact the ease of program putting an eye on the conduct of the police themselves is a different minister of police to the one who made the Swimming Pool video yes its a new minister. Lets go to the back good evening member lekha we find ourselves in what can be termed as the perfect storm as a nation in south africa and we find ourselves at a time that we deeply divided and we are also all introspecting as a nation could you kindly share what your outlook is for south africa especially for young people and also what your message would be to potential Young Leaders to convince them to stay in south africa thank you whats your message to Young Leaders systems of africa. I think Young Leaders must know that south africa the future of our country in fact must be their consent they must be involved they must find forums where they must participate in different sectors where they can also contribute towards becoming active. Decision makers about their own future ok lets go i said destroyed were going to turn the corner you see the police in south africa been hurt a kind of my question is for the american incident on the 6th in a focused no one has been brought a country that so what are you doing about it is their culture of impunity in south africa is asking about the merican of massacre 201234 mine workers who were killed by police no ones been held to account for the 7 years later what are you doing to the Police Accountable now and find out ill be very nice and i say hold on the american massacre is a big story and i know he does not have find out more information im just saying i have to update my information but youre aware no one is being held to account for the killing of 34 people some of them without in order to show up out that thats why i must find out i mean were pretty sure because we looked into 34 people i want to know i know that i know how many people died very briefly during the commission of police if you remember very carefully she was recalled from the position he. Saw something have happened while 34 people dead and someone got fired you said nothing of happened but i meant in terms of process im guessing he meant in terms of putting people in prison for killing people and shooting them in the back to the audience member asked about people going to prison youre aware that no Police Officer went to prison specifically for killing any of those 34 people is that wrong with that role im saying my own information needs to be updated. And if its updated and find out that nobody went to prison is that wrong do you think someone should have gone to prison. Because people were killed yes ok this gentleman and brown jacket. In 2017 you said following the fall of Robert Mugabe in a military coup in zimbabwe one and im quoting your words when one member of the 1st family grace mugabe thinks he has the right to determine who should be thrown out of the ruling party. I think anybody you meant the military in this case has the right and responsibility to intervene now since 27 is simply a military Coalition Government has taken over in zimbabwe that when abductions shootings by the militant the street economic downturn and persistent risk of another coup my question is do you still think militaries have a responsibility to intervene in politics in light of these development did you support a military intervention in zimbabwe i thought it was great that intervention was politically motivated it happened to be an initiative of military people. Was a coup was it a military coup because it was the military then i guess who will do but im saying there was a crisis is easy and folding in zimbabwe do you think it was better for that i think that intervention helped. Ok were going to go back to sort of go to the back gentlemen the glasses there my grandmother and mother kitty to care for in c. K. Does and taught them how to create an Education System in our area they remember. I was one of the people with the open border policy in south africa who was able to become a doctor and a Rhodes Scholar here and i only became a citizen in south africa a month ago and i am deeply hurt that people like me have no future in the country because we are seen as being zimbabweans and nigerians who conduct crime. How can i tell my girlfriend to come back to south africa with me to contribute for a future can you please take this opportunity to think about your views with your heart when people like my grandmother thought for your liberation in south africa not knowing when it would come ok. Thank goodness it is exactly because as the a. N. C. Weve been thinking with our hearts that we are in the problem that we have when we were hoping it will work for us all to live together in our communities and like where we lived in in the refugee camps when we were in other countries and unfortunately it has not wet and what we are saying is let us down to gather with you and your girlfriend and talk about the reality. Just to be a challenge you say you want to see it to use kind of quote unquote western lingo tougher border controls tougher migration policies less immigrants is that what youre trying to say we weve got to mind the truth coming into the borders like every country does every country does not just allow anyone to come in without proper documents and come and do as you like but worried about going on here about scapegoating immigrants for some. Breaking laws of the country very very which we dont allow. Very briefly because it was very poorly step to point what im hearing because this this means that south africa will never developed because if we as South Africans are going to take an exceptionally stiff you that means we will never be able to integrate our economies south africa in chinese tense its just a village where only 56000000 people and i think we ought to begin to think a product than just thinking of south africa is a Little Island in exceptional terrace. Come to the center and then well go to the general. Good evening i just want to ask you why is it so difficult for any cigar meant to solve a live issue problem in your country because 72 percent of farmland is owned by white minority thats where the problem is which you are facing right now is going to be a time bomb. It is a problem. We with you we must deal with it we have not been great at it in the past 2 decades. And we asked seized with it right now. President of a poster named kenneth consisting of 50 percent of women so do you think in the next decade maybe well have a woman president thank you. I hope so. Do you want to throw your hat in the ring or young and. So an article in 2017 by biz news referred to the government as a organized Crime Syndicate and levels of criminality in the government have reached such stages where they have resulted in a breaking down of moral and social fiber of the country and Violent Crime has flourished to stream levels with is on average 56 murders and 100000 rapes every single day my question is because this seems to be a theme of denial both here tonight and not taking responsibility for anything what responsibility do you take as a Senior Member of the a. N. C. I think we cant blame the problems of south African Society on the a. N. C. Creamy nally has been in south africa for more than 3 centuries especially after the colonial days came and brought cry from the euro to africa and so you can say they. Brought all over me now you are sitting in the u. K. Lets be clear the British Empire did do exactly what you just said but they did to a lot of countries why is it south africa has the 5th highest murder rate in the world in 2015 im wondering. The United Nations you may have. Been a little while so what ok it was a no you know world bank where way over on times is going to be the last question i hope its a really good one no pressure. From a speaker welcome to the space my question is in light of worries of africa finds itself in both politically economically and socially how do you see your role in the facilitation of the erosion of Public Institutions in south africa and what would you have done differently that is a good question. I have no me outside of the collective that is my home politically you know i do decently as an individual that is you could have done anything differently over the last 10 i dont have a person on space to do things you know as an individual really no. One last question for me chris harney the anti apartheid icon who was killed 26 years ago he said in october 1902 what i fear is that the liberators emerge as elitists who drive around in Mercedes Benz is and used the resources of this country to live in palaces and gather riches was he rather prophetically describing the south africa of 292228 certain extent as weve been finding out about the kinds of things that some of us some of our own people have been doing and i am saying. Its not a bad thing that that is coming out is actually a good thing because then only can we address it on that note misspoken better well have to leave it there thanks to our audience here in the oxford union thanks to our panel of experts here and thank you to you for joining us head to head back next year thanks for watching at home thank you thank. You. Weather remains very cool into southeastern parts of australia but further north there is so much side 5 danger in place particularly up towards queensland up towards the northwest as well but one must see these showers you can just see a little bit of clout there just around that eastern side of queensland just around the Sunshine Coast actually be the case as we go on through the next set of the temperature contrast 29 celsius for brisbane 1314 degrees down towards a southeastern corner on the other side of the country we could touch 33 in perth may well get down to around 29 on sunday but plenty of heat around a little bit of cloud pushing into south australias we go on through the next day or so but down to the southeast temperatures pick up a little interfet toria 18 celsius the full melbourne that cloud is making its way towards news a little push its way through very mobile system this one say expect to say some wet sand windy weather over the next couple of days back to south solid as we go on through saturday the north island will see some showers and itll change as we go on into sunday temperatures typically around 18 degrees celsius is a sort of temperature we can expect across northern parts of japan heavy rain coming into hong she was a guy through saturday and that may well affect the rugby in tokyo. The environment doesnt know any boundaries what goes up into the environment goes around the world. Im trying to that its a very modern way to do pop believe me the measure of progress. The domestic population has become organized enough and active enough to believe. In the ideas of good will kill people are more vulnerable to suckle of poison on aljazeera. This is al jazeera. This is the aljazeera news hour live from london coming up lebanons Prime Minister sets a 72 hour deadline for political leaders to back his Economic Reforms as protests gripped the country. Protesters and riot police clash in barcelona amid continuing anger over the jailing of catalan separatist leaders. And the ceasefire Northern Syria is largely holding but turkeys president warns the offensive could restart in minutes if kurdish fighters dont abide by its terms. And im peter stands in doha with all your sports protests in the council and region have forced organizers to call for real madrids match at barcelona well hear from a real coach synod in sudan later in the program. Lebanons Prime Minister saad hariri has given rival groups in his government 72 hours to unite and get behind his economic reform plans hes addressed the nation amid mass protests across the country over Economic Conditions and political paralysis at least 2 people have died during the demonstrations in a moment well have the latest from Stephanie Decker in beirut but 1st our hierarchy has this report i. Gunfire in northern lebanon i want to guard to a former politician apparently opening fire in the city of tripoli the shooting goes on for a while. And the injured off ferried to hospital. Moments later protesters burned down a bus station owned by the politician i tension to in the lebanese capital. Beirut was holes for revolution and bring down the system are being echoed across the country was lebanese from all walks of life protesting on mass for a 2nd day fed up they say with the high costs of living and demanding a change of leadership here today thats what our rights that country is what i meant that garbage and the number that mean why fed up with all this is why here for the future of our kids theres no future for god no job at all and this is not acceptable anymore we have stood up put all the time and now its time to talk protestors blocks major roads forcing parts of the capital to come to a standstill. Security forces and protesters scuffled on the main road to the airport years of crippling economic crisis has left many lebanese struggling to make ends meet made worse by political upheaval in the cost of caring for one and a half 1000000 Syrian Refugees who fled the war the latest protest began on thursday against government plans to charge users of the Whatsapp Messaging Service the outcry forced the government to quickly scrapped that plan but the anger has turned into a nationwide protest against the dire state of the economy. Lebannon has the 3rd largest debt in the world more than one and a half times its g. D. P. Banks Russian Foreign currency last month and the government declared a state of emergency but none of the companies that my mom and i had we want the downfall of the regime all the way from the top of the pyramid we are hungry we are dying we are tired. The government has announced it will no longer impose new taxes Prime Minister saddle heidi they canceled fridays Cabinet Meeting saying his efforts to bring in much needed reforms have been repeatedly blocked by others in government but job or i am giving our partners in the government a very short deadline 72 hours to give us a solution that can convince us and the people in the streets and our International Partners but some protesters see the climbdown as too little too late that aljazeera. Stephanie decker has more from the streets of beirut 1st 2nd day and night thousands of people have come out to the streets of beirut there is one young man being arrested here by the army but this gives you an indication a lot of windows have been smashed and a lot of the roads have been blocked its impossible to move around the city even off when we came from the airport had to be picked up by camera on a motorbike because all the roads have been blocked these kinds of fires fires burning the message from the people is one of unity which is very rare when it comes to lebanon this is a country divided along sectarian lines people are now all turning together and turning towards their politicians and saying that it is time for change and also we heard from the Prime Minister we heard from the foreign minister but no one seems to have taken responsibility you can still hear chill gas and stun grenades going on the numbers are much smaller at this point in time in the evening but certainly the result remains strong people seem to have had enough and its all about the quality of living they believe the politicians are corrupt these are the same faces that have ruled lebannon for years and years and years and they want change and people will tell you what is happening here is unprecedented lebannon has never seen anything like it. Going political crisis is having severe repercussions on an already weak economy which many predict is on the verge of collapse critics blame a small number of sick tarion leaders who ruled lebanon since the 15 years civil war came to an end in 1990 despite tens of billions of dollars spent talk of the conflict infrastructure is crumbling including daily at christie cuts and limited clean Water Supplies lebanon now has the 3rd highest level in the world at least 37 percent of people under the age of 35. 00 unemployed and use a regional term one has also seen an influx of one and a half 1000000 Syrian Refugees since 2011 and thats on top of the 475000 Palestinian Refugees who are already in the country. Even him now as a Teaching Fellow in International Relations at Royal Holloway University of london he joins me live by skype from windsor thanks for being with us so its not the 1st time theyve been protesting in lebanon but are you surprised by the scale of and that the violence of all this time. Yes i am surprised and everyone is a prize even the protesters themselves despite the fact that this is not the 1st time that people took to the streets the size of the crowds and also the nature of the protests and how widespread they are across the country is indeed unprecedented is it organized or spontaneous. It started spontaneously but having said that its important to mention that even prior to this this escalation there have been a wave of protests organized by different syndicates and groups that have been doing limited protests against the austerity measures of the government or the attempted measures of the government and how syria mean that theres austerity measures that are involved here how serious are they have they actually been exhibit theres the talk of course about the the trigger for these protests the removal of the or the introduction of a charge or whats up phone calls that since been moved what do you think was the why do you think that was the final straw for people. Yeah i think its the final straw because it reflects how the political elite lack of the creativity to enforce meaningful reform without disproportionately impacting the middle and lower classes and that is something that people were patient about but then the fact that they are touching on the most basic livelihood of people and things that are extremely ridiculous really triggered why why whats reporters today and yesterday and how vulnerable is the government and harry and hes asked for hes given a 72 hour deadline for the reforms to be backed and so on what do you reckon about his position. I think that his government is vulnerable but its important not to turn this about it into a conversation about the government because in lebanon we have a very robust power arrangement among sectarian elites so the the resignation of the government and how did it themselves does not really mean that things will go towards Something Better given the fact that the power structure itself makes sure that the process of changing governments does not really mean meaningful transformation of policies i mean it is part of the problem here hes well known for being a billionaire is that part of the issue here that people see him as being completely detached from the concerns of ordinary people as you mentioned it before and did not only how do you see every other political elite in lebannon and also members of parliament have really managed to make a lot of wealth from the miseries of their support nation and that it could only come up to the system has been in force since the Peace Agreement the type of agreement after the war which allowed a very small minority of the political elite to amass a huge amount of worlds and enjoy the develop the the wards of up to this development while the rest of the population was distracted by sectarian myths thank you very much indeed for joining us there if you have holly. Youre watching our 0 live from london still ahead on the news hour mexicos president defends the National Guard after they released the son of notorious drug lord el chapo. Dozens of people were killed in a bomb attack on a mosque during friday prayers in eastern afghanistan. The countdown is on to the biggest day in the history of japanese rugby a look ahead to their world cup quarter final against south africa. Says the offensive in northeast syria will resume within minutes if Congress Rebels dont abide by the terms of the cease fire the 5 day truce is largely holding so far there have been some unverified reports of sporadic fighting seen in close to you has this update from istanbul. Reports of superadded fighting continuing in syria the day after turkey agreed with the u. S. To pals its minutes to operation for 5 days turkey says the power is to allow the Kurdish Peoples Protection units or why p. G. Time to with throw from the border region both the why p. G. And they are oppositions National Syrian army accuse each other of failing to abide by the deal the us stays its a ceasefire turkey says its a temporary suspension of its military operation which began 9 days ago turkeys president trajectory brad john refuted the reports of violations he expects the why peaches with rubble from the designated safe zone area over the next 4 days and the u. S. To oversee the process are done is warning that defensive will resume within minutes if kurdish rebels dont abide by the terms of the deal. So the issue of the safe zone will be solved with us can realize their promises when the ceasefire is due to end but if the promises are not realized as soon as events are operational peace spring will continue more rapidly than before at least 15000000 of turkeys 80000000 citizens are kurdish turkeys leaders are repeated reiterating that their target is not the Kurdish People but the y. P. G. Because of its links to the p. K. K. Which is designated as a terrorist group the European Council president donald tusk is urging turkey to immediate the withdrawal with forces from syria so called ceasefire this is the approach we expected. In fact its not a she said the month of capitalization of the cuts. But i think that we have to be very consistent here. And we have to do