Of thousands of Rohingya Muslims remaining in me and more face a serious risk of genocide thats according to a new report from a United NationsFact Finding Mission u. N. Investigators are also calling for top generals and me and more to stand trial for war crimes but would that be enough to end the suffering of one of the most persecuted minorities in the world this is inside story. Hello and welcome to the program. 2 years after me and more as military crackdown on the one hand you an investigator say conditions remain deplorable for the muslim ethnic minority that 600000 rohingya living in iraq and state face a serious risk of genocide and that it is impossible for hundreds of thousands who fled to bangladesh to return last year the u. N. Fact finding mission found that military officers carried out a campaign against the regime with genocidal intent the investigators are now calling for me and more to be held responsible and Army Generals to face trial over rapes and killings mean mars government has repeatedly denied all accusations the reports also concluded that me and more is failing in its obligation to prevent investigate and criminalize genocide rohingya living in iraq and state face hate speech and restrictions on almost every aspect of their life factors for arbitrary detention killings torture rape and other forms of Sexual Violence are still present the mission calls for the Un Security Council to refer me and more to the International Criminal court and urge governments and companies to sever all business ties with the military. It says it has a confidential list of more than 100. 00 names including officials suspected of being involved in genocide and war crimes. All right lets bring in our guests from germany by skype is dr anita shook head of the women children and Public Affairs department for the European Council and from yangon and me and more also by skype is john quigley a human rights specialist at Fortify Rights a nonprofit Human Rights Organization thank you both for joining us anita showed so this new report from the u. N. Fact finding mission has now been handed off to the independent investigative mechanism for me and more what happens next. What happens next our i answer this question we have to make sure that that in depend this independent mechanic is him its not a coat itself and thats why its very important mendo chord already has said that the you know under remain knowing it in are kind stupid are under the thread or are facing the genocide anger and genocide so youre we have to consider that this is independent mechanism is not a coded south but it the used to evidence to chaz being given collided by the effect cunning mission to persecuted a general in the future or so it is very important that International Community takes a concrete action referring the minute tree the country itself to i. C. C. End to the International Criminal court of justice because otherwise deviated the the me a mama to tree n. D. Civilian government new continue to do enjoyed the impunity so the crimes they have committed of bein the complicit for the genocide against doing a community here and genocide of there were new community does not stop it is being in but other communities are being also involve like their kind people the schantz the could genes so there should be beyond the mccann is a beside the mccann ism they should be and action now lips so is this what the International Community has been providing our d. Politico 0 political bit it should end drunk when the i saw you nodding along the to what and euna shrug was sayings i want to give you a chance to respond because it looks like you want to jump in but i also want to ask you to expand upon the point that are neither showed was making when it comes to the International Criminal court because this is a process that is be set with complications and bureaucracy at the moment there is an official request by the prosecutor at the i. C. See in front of a panel of judges for an official investigation to be opened into the crimes against the rahane gut but we have no idea when decision will be made and we dont yet know when or if this could actually show up in a court room form correct yeah i think their Actual Community should use all the tools that has and its tool box to be able to push for International Accountability. So that means you know like anita said the i. C. J. The i. C. C. Even the fear i mean the m. R. Generals here care in the country they fear International Prosecution so this can have International Accountability and even the idea of it can have a preventative effect and stop future atrocities from taking place in the country anita should one of the recommendations made by the u. N. Fact finding commission is for International Organizations other countries to stop doing business with me and morris military but is there any evidence as of yet that the tide has turned on that that these groups that are doing business with me in march military will listen to these pleas and stop doing so. I dont think so does food happen very soon in the future because it at the end of the day the plight of door is basically because of the economic interests in the country because everyone things that they have they have to have a piece of cake in the newly open market in the year and the m. R. Is not not one of the explorer markets so every country every and many of the companies are billing to. Look. The genocide of do here and continue to do business as usual so i think unless and until these an accountability the military being dragged to the International Community coat and the country itself for why need for not being able to or not willing to protect the its a very Vulnerable Group or ethnic minorities in the country i dont think so if theyre in the near future this is going to stop on the companys been continue to do so john quigley one of the points made repeatedly throughout the new report is that sexual and gender based violence by mean more is military remains a prominent feature of conflicts there but were not just talking about the ring or correct them were talking about conflicts that theyve had with other ethnic groups and shannon catchin states correct. Yeah i mean the coach and the shon the quran there are hendra have all experience atrocity crimes from the me of our military the Miramar Military is the problem in there theres a lot of solidarity happening between the ethnic groups right now you know rape has been used as a weapon or in cases like a trial on shonen and kitchen states and this is not just happening against their handa and its not just happening against women men and transgender or 100 people have also been targeted by the military and you know experienced Sexual Violence against them. I mean to show from your vantage point. You know again and again weve seen in geos weve seen u. N. Organizations put out these calls for the International Community to do more to help the rain why is that not happening i think as International Community or the u. N. Has stated very many years ago there are. Not only the most persecuted community or ethnic minority and a lot but theyre also. The ones who have the least friends and the test shown again during the atrocities in 2017 and to know now that the empathy our people should be receiving it they have failed to receive them to the beach to deserve and this is that inaction of the International Community because i dont think so. Are to such an extent marjan life and they can offer anything to the International Community. A one of the reasons that the rank are so marginalizes because they are effectively stateless and you recently authored a report for Fortify Rights called tools of genocide in which you you really described in detail the history of what is called the National Verification card and how you say that has been used i mean mars military to further marginalise could you go into a bit more detail about what exactly that National Verification card scheme is and how it has been used. Yes and not hold their kitchen card or the n. B. C. Affectively identify of their hand as a foreigner. In their own land and it strips their ahead of access to full Citizenship Rights be n. B. C. Is based saw discriminatory law called the 1982 citizenship law which also does not allow their hand access for citizenship at best the n. B. C. Can ground or hand naturalized citizen ship but a naturalized citizen can be stripped of their rights at any time by them myanmar by the state so this is not sustainable solution for him in the country tree or for those that may return in the future anita should theres been a lot of coverage over the past 2 years about these repatriation deals these agreements that were made between the governments of of me and more and bangladesh in order for rangar refugees in bangladesh to return to me and more i was on the ground in coxs bizarre bangladesh last november when they tried to initiate one of these repatriation schemes and the un was involved they interviewed all the names that were on the list that have been provided by bangladesh to me and more and not one rohingya refugee who is in or interviewed agreed to go back because they were so afraid for their safety are you concerned that they will get to a point in bangladesh where there could be a forced repatriation scheme because up until now its only home and terry. Yeah you know i think and this is a nod to restore missional full Citizenship Rights to do he gets inside myanmar is guaranteed and unless and until military who has perpetrated the genocide against our community are held accountable there is no save and security for our people and not a single he is beginning to return home thats why the dam might be a time in the future there but not this hes frustrated the empathy is going to be very no for the people like in 1992 when a dish has forced people to return to me m. R. So their dam might be at times but now theres an in to International Media coverage there is a pressure on the Bangladeshi Government also so i am not sure if none of this government is going to risk its image there might be an attempt like pushing them to question char island but pushing them to Rakhine State i dont think so they would risk destroying their image junk when they what do you think about that point i mean bangladesh has government it has has said over and over again that repatriation would only happen if it was on a voluntary basis but there are indications right now from officials in bangladesh and from Media Outlets in bangladesh that perhaps patience seems to be running out when it comes to the rink issue do you think we could get to a point where repatriation could be pushed again and maybe they suggested it would be a forced repatriation. Yeah i was i was in cox bazaar during the repatriation process in november 2018 i was also in caucus are recently in august 22nd monitoring there are a trace in process of her rights and myself spoke to people who are hendo refugees in the camps on august 22nd that were on the repatriation list and all of them like anita said. Dont want to go back without restored Citizenship Rights they also talk about the need to go back to their original holy land and many of them talked about the need for reparations for the law office theyve occurred from atrocity. You know right now bangladesh is making it very difficult for the rich refugees to live in the camps theres been you know restrictions on internet and sim cards in the camps and this makes it very difficult for rejoinder refugees to communicate with the outside world you know i n. G. O. S in the camps are being restricted right now so this is kind of a squeezing a fact that could lead for him gets a fear living in bangladesh so you know sort of rights calls on the ball and actually government to protect or hinder Refugee Rights and to restore access to you know internet and sim cards and allow freedom of Movement Access to formalize education in the camps and to make it a sustainable place to lift you know but the main issue is that me amar needs to create a situation where there are hendra are willing to return and and right now we see in myanmar is a situation of ongoing genocide and persecution and there is no access to education in state now and theres still attacks going on against their head and other ethnic minority its an issue got i want to ask you to expand on the point you were making a few moments ago because you mentioned box on shark char for our viewers understand this is a a tiny this silt island thats off the coast of bangladesh in the bay of bengal. And the idea is that they would perhaps the government of bangladesh will be moving potentially hundreds of thousands of the refugees from the camps and coxs bizarre to these these units that they built to house them on this island how close are you how close do you think we are to seeing that potentially happen there i mean guys are not when we were in cooks those are our people are not building to move from one camp to another everyone is willing to return home if there are restriction of our our rights our Citizenship Rights and there is an accountability and protection for us for doing a community so they want to again here also there wont be any one entry movement of the ruling yes from one camp to bus one char ion and char island is very slug cool era now recently in those are in the refugee camps we have seen houses have been flooded and and people who are living there for many years and now the absolute its all imagined what are the consequences in bashan jar and there are some emergencies and even the humanitarian send the doctors to reach a child 8 and 23 hours so it means we are risking putting these really in your community again in but entire island at risk of losing their lives john quickly in late july i believe it was the u. S. Government decided to impose sanctions on top military leaders in me and more but many critics said that that simply didnt go far enough is there any indication that that is making any kind of a difference when it comes to me and morris approach to this. Yeah i mean part of our rights is calling for more sanctions take place against me m. R. Officials and the military own enterprises in the country there should be you know a global arms embargo as well and the u. S. Government can go farther in their sanctions and they have i think you know the travel restrictions that they put in place and you know naming general min online which the u. S. Government did and they sanction him i think that was a good start but i think they can also you know they can move it further and they can implement more targeted sanctions against other military and Police Officials the u. N. Fact finding mission they have you know at least 100. 00 names of people that could be responsible for crimes against humanity and genocide sort of pyrites in. 18 put out a report on the atrocity crimes that took place and we name 22. 00. Military and Police Officials that we believe should also be investigated so theres a lot more that can happen and theres a crime the International Community and either show ive been to coxs bazar 4 separate times in the past year and a half and i can tell you that the types of atrocities that have been described to us and weve been in the camps are among the worst that my team and i as journalists have ever encountered are the men and women and children who suffered so much trauma and so much abuse do they come close to getting the kind of help whether it be medical whether it be social whether it be counseling that they need. It is very important that you have asked this question because many many visited the cocks bazaar be have interviewed me have met many victims including children and women and if every want to highlight one point when people go to our people in any need to un take testimonies they return home be severely traumatized and they are not the direct victims and did receive the counseling unfortunately our very young Children Women victims of rape people who have lost to siblings who lost their parents and they have seen how their parents have been killed in front of dahlias dibble forced to see they havent received even a single psychological support counseling sessions and talking about 65 percent of decent out of 1100000 population and it may be psychological support or medical support now i ds a huge gap because. Camps are not equipped or are not to appear to provide Tertiary ServicesSpecialist Services should be have even met kids children who have been directly shot and they are paralyzed and they are having complications like you had to keep it is and which needs Plastic Surgery and there are no help for such children so these are huge deficit and i think the International Community beside. Looking for politico so lucian dish should be also aiding in supporting the very traumatised Rohingya Refugees psychological support medical support and also education because 64 as i said 65 percent of the people are children and losing our generations and these are didnt have seen i have bitterness trauma and if you dont put these children are dont create a hope for them they will be easily radicalized and displayed become a problem for the burden of this government for the people have been a vision also in for me amar in the future thats why its very important that all despots all the odds are met. All right joining us now from london is ronan li a visiting scholar at Queen Mary University of londons International StateCrime Initiative ronan thanks for being with us look i think a lot of people that maybe follow this story just from time to time dont quite understand the magnitude of the persecution faced by the rohingya i mean were talking about decades here right could you go into a little bit about the waves of migration that weve seen in the seventys the ninetys in the past couple of years from me and more into bangladesh. Well weve seen 4 major waves of forced migration from me and mother bangladesh and the common denominator every time is when me and maos military interacts with the rich the direct result is atrocities against rohingya civilians and tens of thousands of. Being sent to bangladesh during the seventys they claimed that what they were doing was checking Citizenship Rights within me and ma the direct result was atrocities committed against civilians and hundreds of thousands crossed into bangladesh that was repeated again in 1992 when again 200000 rating or thereabouts were forced into bangladesh and many of those subsequently returned but returned to the same kinds of conditions within me and ma that had led them to leave in the 1st place again during 2016 there was a forced migration when me and muslim military used an excuse which was that there had been a dead bin unrest in the region and 90000 ringgit were forced into bangladesh and then as we know during 2017 the largest forced migration ina asia since the end of the 2nd world war 700000 drinking forced into bangladesh and made credible accusations from International Bodies as we see now including the United Nations that acts of genocide were committed i mean atrocities against civilians and most certainly crimes against humanity john quickly we only have a couple of minutes left someone ask you to please keep your answers short as you can but you touched upon something that i want to follow up with you about and thats mainly the issue of mobile internet partial shutdowns in bangladesh and ive been speaking to a lot of working the refugees the past week obviously they cant communicate as often as they could in the past and theyre really worried about what this means ive seen you tweeting a lot about how symbolic the mobile phone is for because this is a way that they were able to document in the past the atrocities that were committed against them could you speak a bit about this issue and how important it is for the ring and just how scared they are right now. I mean mobile phones inside Rakhine State for many years and even still to today are highly restricted range a call with a smartphone or call with International Numbers in their cell phones in Rakhine State can be prosecuted they can be beaten they can be extorted for money so now that bangladesh is also limiting Internet Access and sim cards you know their engine know this process well and there are who want to communicate with the out by world and not have you know rock trainer and the ability to access sim cards creates an environment where human right to be says can happen and go on documented. That were flame the country in shell from 17 to bangladesh documented you know the atrocities that happened against them so theyve used mobile phones and internet to disseminate information to journalists human rights monitors and been able to show the world themselves whats happening to them are what we have run out of times were going to have to leave it there thanks so much to all our guests anita sugar ronan leigh and john quigley and thank you too for watching you can see the program again any time by visiting our website aljazeera dot com and for further discussion go to our Facebook Page thats facebook dot com forward slash a. J. Inside story you can also join the conversation on twitter our handle is at a. J. Inside story for me. And the whole team here my friend. 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