That matter to you. Aljazeera. And youre in the stream today china is they think growing International Pressure to stop pressing its population but some surprising voices are speaking up to defend the governments policies and there must someone to get a 3rd party or leave them in our lives. There are some 11000000 weekers in china they are an ethnic mostly Muslim Minority who have lived in the Northwestern Province person cerys and recent years china has stepped up its repression of the Group Survivors recount torture and forced indoctrination internment camps we girls also experience constant government surveillance and restrictions on religious practice Rights Groups say in july 22 countries sent a letter to the United Nations condemning the camps 37 other nations quickly responded with a counter letter defending chinas human rights record including more than a dozen the muslim majority countries so whats going on here have muslim countries abandoned the weaker joining us to discuss from toronto is free the deve canada director of Human Rights Watch free to specializes in matters concerning countries who are part of the organization of islamic cooperation or oh i see recent abbass here in studio with me she is the director of the campaign for weekers and next to her as the unit brahim director for Global Policy in washington d. C. Welcome all of you to the stream i want to start with a clip because it seems american officials have been some of the loudest voices when it comes to condemning chinas abuse of weekers over the past few months secretary of state might pump ale recently called their treatment these stain of the century take a look at in china in china the Chinese CommunistParty Demands control over the lives of the Chinese People and their souls china so to one of the worst human rights crises of our time it is truly the staying of the century since april 2017 the Chinese Government has detained more than 1000000 chinese muslims and other minorities in camps and should john. So it seem why havent muslim majority countries spend more outspoken when it comes to this issue but its a very interesting question to you the reality is that change is rising power of rising superpower its advisors happening a lot faster than anybody anticipated and i think this is just a taste of things to come is not willing to a low countries to be bystanders they have to be fully on board with this oppression and many of these muslim countries are indebted to chain a chain or through its built in good initiative. Organize a mechanism which the cold the diplomacy and these countries are in huge date to show you know and theyre looking to show you know for investment for creed and so on and if it wants these countries to participate whats to be on them on fully on board with this Program Including those against the leaders. What was so interesting about what azeem just said there had to write it down not allowing them to be bystanders and i think thats exactly sums it up very well tell us what we know about who these countries are specifically these muslim majority countries. Yes so i mean the the organization of islamic cooperation is really meant to be the collective voice of muslim governments around the world it has as part of its mandate you know the core objective is to safeguard the rights of muslim minorities everywhere and so one would think that the Organization Islamic cooperation and its members 57. 00 Members Around the world would be outraged by the scale and severity of abuses against muslims in china but what weve seen again and again both you know at a meeting of its Foreign Ministers in abu dhabi in march as well as more recently at the Un Human Rights Council in geneva in june is not only. You know silence you know on the part of the organization of islamic cooperation and its members but in fact youve seen countries go out of their way to applaud chinas treatment of its weekers they did this in a resolution at council Foreign Ministers meeting in abu dhabi they said they praise chinas treatment of its Muslim Minority and they called for greater cooperation between the oh i see and china and then most recently in june at the Human Rights Council in geneva they again applauded chinas treatment and said that its actions and shin jang were leading to a greater sense of happiness fulfillment and security for the people of that region and i want to share what look like they mentioned there that letter this from Kevin Painter who says on twitter heres a letter supporting chinas policies in sending highlights me appreciate chinas commitment to openness and transparency since approximately when the camps began people instancing enjoy a stronger sense of happiness when the mental and security in quote we can see a bear in there and we will read tweet that out our community is not surprised person we got this from someone who says a muslim majority country should be at the forefront of condemning china. Cultural genocide against a Muslim Community their silence is a scar on the conscience of muslims and all those who believe in fundamental human rights so people online not so surprised are you im not surprised im just disappointed because china is using economy ive learned over those countries most of those countries are in debt to china because of chinas heavy Infrastructure Investments those countries and the travel diplomacy that initiative power. On the surprise but the muslim countries we expect them to not to pick economy or china us power over the muslim brothers and sisters faith islamic had this brotherhood says all muslims are all as a one body and the if one parts gets sick the whole body is forced to react right now the entire moslems are being amputated from this body so i hope we are not alone i dont blame the the governments because of their influences by the chinese influences over those countries but the people i think if only they knew what is happening to we are going to muslims they will be with us and they will be outraged and of course you speak to this from a personal stance because you have family members who are there youve been on the stand before and and youve recounted what some of your family members have been through and i know thats a difficult one for you to share but our audience finds it important and they find it important because they feel like no one is talking about this not enough people are talking about this whens the last time you heard from your family and changing. My sister 6 days after i was outspoken about the conditions of the camps at the year Hudson Institute one of the think tanks here. It was the last time i heard. My family heard about her from her its almost a year now i have no idea where she is i dont even know at this point if she is still alive im just the one example of millions of others. My husbands entire family over 30 members of his family last time he spoke to his family was april 27th hearing that this is what they thought we were a Community Opera facing these days. I want to share with their audience what some countries are doing about this particularly 11 example is malaysia because some are saying that this is a tight rope that they are walking a malaysia is one of the muslim majority countries that stayed silent about china in july so here is Prime MinisterMahathir Mohamad explaining why when asked by t. R. T. World around garda a very powerful nation. We treat america. Is also do we have to treat because it is powerful he is capable of taking action only that may be detrimental to the relationship of many muslim countries which chain so the muslim countries have to be careful about condemning china we do what we can we do not over his he gives a stone wall simply because. It is there we can condemn me but. Condemnation alone least not we do it if anything simply because china is. The is no question of us taking any violent action against china. As he says do what we can when you make about. Well at the moment none of the countries are actually doing anything and this is the great irony is that is only the United States has actually spoken out and you can understand why you need to states as a superpower the chain uk is on to bully the United States in the manner it can bully other countries china is a very vengeful nation you know any country that speaks so dont threaten them with putting an investment putting its students pulling out all sorts of goodies that theyve given them so countries are completely unwilling to speak one thing we need to understand is that you know president himself is under immense pressure at the moment he is seen in china as having lost america during the trade war hes no also seen as having almost lost hong kong and so hes under immense pressure from so so i think we can only see the situation with do we go its getting much worse but simply because he cannot afford to lose any further control over the situation on the ground i want to share a comment from our audience an audience member name hamit who explains from his view from pakistan why some countries including his own are not talking about this have a listen. And i believe that chinas investment standout is the china Pakistan Economic toreador more commonly known as the seat next project is going to use of t. And it currently represents 20 percent of the pakistani economy i think its a very important project both the countries especially pakistan considering the fact that it has a big influence on the pakistans. Very the if those figures are accurate 20 percent of the economy one might understand why theyre hesitant to speak out. Now i mean certainly there are a number of countries that are beholden to china and the Chinese Government does buy silence through its investments whether through the bottom Road Initiative the large Infrastructure Project or through other kind of the kinds of investments but what was particularly surprising is there were several members of the organization of islamic cooperation wealthy countries like saudi arabia the United Arab Emirates behind qatar and others that you know similarly were were silent they dont they dont rely on chinese investments theyre not beholden to china in the same way as poor countries but they themselves also lined up to you know to applaud china for its treatment and what we saw was crown prince mohamed bin fellow man of saudi arabia in february go to china and actually applaud the Chinese Governments de extremism efforts in changing he is you know as you know the custodian of the 2 holy mosques in mecca and medina and he himself applauded chinas treatment and so the another rationale for i think you know if you some of the other countries in remaining silent is they equally have very abusive counterterrorism policies and strategies in their countries the Chinese Government is you know using counterterrorism as an excuse for its repression and jang the entire campaign thats been put on place is called the Strike Hard Campaign against violent extremism and fact that bears no resemblance to the reality on the ground whatsoever but its a very useful for oil to use to in a way to be able to justify its repression of 13000000 muslims and changing the detention of over a 1000000 muslims arbitrarily without any Legal Process to be able to label it falsely as terrorism and unfortunately many governments including wealthy governments that arent beholden to china. Are. Are very quick to turn a blind eye because they themselves have very visible counterterrorism policies in their countries of europe and i think thats a very important point you know one of the questions we need to ask is why is cheney actually doing this and these multiple reasons you know you have a ideology of scientific issue and so on but a key reason i believe is that you have to look at what the motivation of china is and chinas number one feed i believe is not that theres going to be a trade war with the u. S. And the u. S. May indeed the number one fear the regime in china is that they call and we will slow down and there will be a Popular Uprising against a regime so what they are doing in. A very large kistler border the its actually creating a highly technological sophisticated surveillance state in which they can muster how to control a Large Population using the latest Technology Surveillance mind control techniques and so on and once they have perfected this they have already started doing this to the rest of the country and theyre also starting to export some of this technology a new hope to other countries like venezuela and the philippines so this is not just confined to we need to understand that we will see a lot more of this Technology Used to control massive populations and you see this sort of in the world and many of these humans that freedom mentioned are interested in this you know this is the reality is that they are interested do you control massive populations with all these kinds of techniques so we will see a lot more of this not just in genes dying but essentially spreading throughout the globe and listen i wonder how much of Greater China know about what is even just just laid out there is happening because we got this comment from someone watching live on you tube a man is as i said in china and a good friend and classmate is a weaker one day he cried in my dorm and told me how they took his father away i didnt know how bad it was in till i left china so do you. I think that there is an awareness a greater awareness of the seen if occasion of china or of be oppression of rights of minority groups in china i dont believe so because of the information blockade there was in china people dont know what is happening. Just like they are trying to tell the world that this is not the truth they are not the concentration camps they are the education walk ational Training Centers they are using propaganda to the for the entire at the chinese population as well even people in our region in noida region from township to township from this area. From the city to see the they dont know what is happening. These funny countries also like i mentioned earlier if the people only know what is happening the many the World Population also this is information era we are not getting enough Media Coverage is on this. So people really dont know the scale of it this is the atrocity of the century but still not being covered in Mainstream Media as even in United States i want to share with our audience a comment because of course we reached out to several chinese officials for comment for today show but they have not responded now in july a Chinese ForeignMinistry Spokesperson defended the nations policies and changing and heres what he said. On the issue of the Chinese Government and the Chinese People have the most say and it excepts no interference by any foreign state or external forces in the face of severe threats posed by terrorism and extremism the. Region has adopted a series of measures of terrorism including this stablish means of Vocational Training and Education Center to reverse the security situation. There had been no violent incidents for more than 2 years and. Where we can see social stability and National Unity and the People Living and working in peace the happiness sense of acquisition and sense of security of the people of all ethnic groups have substantially improved and they sincerely support the governments policies. So keeping that in mind that justification i wanted to share this tweet from. Who wrote similar to what you said earlier for a guy hes a saudi arabias crown prince m. B. s told reporters in february china has the right to take Anti Terrorism and extremism measures to safeguard National Security and saudi arabia and pakistan are unwilling to condemn or even affirm. Mistreatment of muslims he writes then who will talk to us about your thoughts about hearing about the Chinese Foreign ministry and the context behind what countries feel like they can talk about when they have dirty laundry so to speak in their own backyard. Now i mean i think you know the what weve seen from the Chinese Government from you know spokesperson after spokesperson really is a complete white washing of its record engine jang the chinese authorities even lead kind of state to manage highly controlled visits titian jang by diplomats in order to really just show them this sort of glowing picture of whats happening in the country which you know any reasonable person could you know would know is a complete sham but i think you know its its surprising in a way just the level in which the Chinese Government is is portraying its its campaign and changing as a model of a de extremism de radicalization and it is so incredibly dangerous because if this model is be is export it elsewhere one could see you know other countries in which sort of massive human rights abuses take place and you know the irony of it as well is that when you see muslim majority countries completely ignoring this you know situation the hypocrisy is so clear here if 1000000 muslims were arbitrarily detained without any Legal Process in sri lanka and in in india in the United States there would be a you know a public outcry by muslim majority country as you know in china you have a situation in which 1000000. 00 han chinese are being placed in the homes of leaders to document every aspect of their lives to document their religious practice if that happened if 1000000. 00 non muslims were placed in the homes of muslims in any other country in the world there would be outrage but you know what we see is that you know time and again countries including influential and wealthy countries you know that are muslim majority countries are willing to completely ignore the abuses by the Chinese Authority and in fact praise china which really threatens the rights of muslim majorities everywhere in the world really thats a point well made and its a point also made via a video comment we got from a Community Members some are heading into the Human Rights Campaign are based in beirut and heres what he told the story. Muslim majority countries like turkey indonesia pakistan and the gulf states among others however main completely silent when it comes to the issues of the week is this comes as china increases its investment in these countries and it seems as though these economic deals and trade has bought the silence of the muslim majority countries as the issue of the week is becomes far more well known and the repression of that theyve faced is far more publicized well see a growing backlash against not only chinas treatment of the week is in its territory but also the complete silence of its governmental allies in the muslim world. This you mention is a growing backlash is the amount direct that to you because we got this tweet from someone whos not so sure cimatron says the socalled muslim majority countries are either biting amongst themselves or are divided on the weaker muslims oppression giving the impression that they are scared of china maybe the oh i see can do something about it now we reached out here at the stream and aljazeera reach out to the ofc to join us for this program they didnt respond what do you think the fear is because there is the idea that all of the oh i see countries nations combined should have enough leverage to comfort china no one would think that the reality is all diplomacy is done by a door so im not sure why you see me be doing brain door so i cant necessarily comment on that but the way i see the situation i think its just going to get worse and worse china is rising so fast and these countries one of your previous callers spoke about the date and the friendship between pakistan and show you know and so on and i think this is a big point because i dont article on this and the backlash from Pakistani Muslims was quite severe it was actually quite surprising even to me and this idea that china is a benevolence frame to these countries is investing in infrastructure and so on its just people. Benevolence motivations are told they are getting these countries into massive amounts of debt that they will not be able to service and city lanka was a model of this you know they are engaged in economic colonization contradict pakistan is in debt to china over 62000000000. 00 with interest thats going to be over 90000000000. 00 contract is done with a completely dysfunctional economy every service that debt is certainly cannot change will simply move in as they didnt see the line call with president project pascoe and start taking over National Assets to negotiate that date including the gliderport and others this is what we are going to see as economic colonization promises and in that situation do you expect these countries then to stand up to china absolutely not so this is just a test of things to come and these countries because they are poor mismanagement put themselves into the situation russia. Well china is a communist country so those kind of the muslim majority countries and the organizations should realize the atheists come in this ideology they dont tolerate any kind of for leaches believes and that they look at islam as a trip to the coming this region so today the oh i see or any other muslim countries they are not realizing whats happening in our region whats happening to you good people are not going to stay there everything is going to be exploited like what they seem said. Its going to be a you know the Chinese Communist government is calling islam as a mental disease sin the flying islam and they are removing all the how long is science in beijing i wonder what they are i see members are going to go and eat dinner which restaurant in beijing if theres a meeting because. Whats happening to all the good people number one its because of the wealth and Growth Initiative puts our area our region is at the center of the belt and Growth Initiative number 2 is our religion right or should i have to posit there id take your point i think our community would agree thank you so much to all of you for joining us for a the diva rush on our bass and Azeem Ibrahim and of course to our community for joining us as well well see you unlike you my at my at my you. I was raised in france. These are my grandparents. These are my parents and this is mean. By them both isis and us on. The 1st of a 2 part epic tale of a remarkable simony. The father the son and the jihad top one on aljazeera. I remember the 1st time i walked into the newsroom and it felt like being in the General Assembly of the United Nations because it has so many nationalities. 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