Thanks. A huge stash of weapons found in italy with neo nazi sympathizers the Italian Government says the see here is unprecedented so how significant is this and what does it tell us about the reemergence of naziism and the far right movement in europe this is the inside story. Thanks. Thanks thanks. Hello and welcome to the program im has an arsenal of weapons has been seized by Italian Police in a raid on a far right Group Authorities say the incident is significant and almost without precedent stockpot was discovered during an investigation into the involvement of italys far right movement in the conflict in Eastern Ukraine and it included in a missile rocket launches and automatic rifles described as latest generation neo nazi propaganda material was also seized police have arrested 3 people including a former candidate for the neofascist foreigners a new all the party fabio. Loans house was found to contain a huge stash of alms as well as hitler memorabilia the europe has experienced an increase in the popularity of right wing groups in recent years much of their rhetoric is based around National Populism and attacks on migrants and muslims and theyve gained more ground with the rise of far right Political Parties in European Parliaments. Right wing movements have held protests against immigration and a slam in several parts of europe and Violent Attacks have been carried out by far right activists including near nazis and White Supremacists germanys Domestic Intelligence agency the b f v says there are more than 24000 far right extremists in the country and believes almost half are potentially violent in france 10 people suspected of planning attacks on mosques Muslim Leaders and women wearing veils were arrested last year and in the u. K. The European UnionsLaw EnforcementAgency Europe poll says 5 right wing terror plots were recorded in 2017. Lets bring in our guests now to talk more about this in pescado italy via skype we have Italian Journalist stephano veggie in lisbon we have michelle believe it he is the chair at the center for research on prejudice at the university of warsaw and in new york also via skype we have. Did george she she is the manager of the far right program at the social Enterprise Group moonshot countering violent extremism good to have you all with us so far let me start with you how significant is this development do you think the seizure. Of these missiles that appear to be. Pretty have been acquired by this Neo Nazi Group in italy. Well according to to the telly and police the antiterrorism police is one of the most significant seizure and the story of italy. Is significant as in both near nasy neofascist groups and one of the 3 people arrested. Used to be can you gauge for a Political Party into the neo fascist Political Party calls for time although. I have to say for some while there remains the statement right after the arrests since tensing itself from from this guy whos name is better. How how significant is it then in in terms of the the the larger far right movement not just in italy but throughout europe that is there is there a connection there so far we cannot say anything about this cause the police didnt say any anything about connections with the other groups what is sure is that the investigations targets. Because the police was investigating an etonians who had fought alongside russian backs the partys forces in Eastern Ukraine namely the dumbass region. So it might have some connections with the other people fighting there is from a logical perspective its quite interesting on a political bases in italy as. Other neo fascists groups Political Parties have pretty much the same ideology as the italys ruling party at the moment which is the league headed by moto salvini if you look at the Political Programs of sorts as a pound and a lead theyre pretty much the same michelle believe its how serious is this sees you do you think. I think this this problem is relatively important and significant in the whole europe and for example the party forced on the war by the right Wing Extremist Party in italia with whom those people that were found today were connected this party has a very strong connection also to the polish far right and they have been present almost every year at the at the rallies of the polish rightwing extremist parties the independence marches in november that we have every hour or so you see that this connections are relatively close and last year the Police President was participating in wanted one of these marches so you could see that they are coming very very close to the mainstream politics and also in many countries for example in in Eastern Europe they are closely connected to football hooliganism and football stadiums are places where much of this mobilise ation of radicalized far right happens. Now the authorities have been tracking many of these far right movements across europe and there has always been this concern that it could spill over into real violence is this evidence of that with with the siege of these weapons or is this is this just an exception is this the one off do you think. So i dont feel they. Fired as an exception very substantial evidence that the threat. Not just across the country. States for example. The global terrorism in that the number of attacks has increased for example in the 13 years prior to 24 were trying attacks but 3 years prior to 22nd 61 attacks that recorded the you take on a program has recorded an increase of 300 percent of referrals to white nationalists so since 2012 or 20 percent increase in jihadism cases so this is an evolving. This is gone except. Interesting if you some tries networks and then were talking about a small number of perpetrators of that have met this kind of activity with violence they have the sense its safe for high impact attacks and to be more interest or. Just broaden this out a bit and i want to ask you a little bit more back how you believe this may all be may or may not be connected with the rise of the far right movements in italy in general which we have seen in the politics in italy in its government and in the recent european elections. Well yes let me stick to the facts so this guy the guy arrested joe is a former officer of the talent customs and Border Protection agency. He was one of 141 of us candidates in 2001 of the senates. In his house police found large amounts of weapons and neo nazi neofascist symbols such as speeches of mostly me and hitler. So going to the political issue. On the other hand we have to notice that for a national leader. Who used to be a member of the European Parliament was sentenced in the eightys bunnytown of tribunals for an armband and terrorism. These party forts and along with because of these are the 2 main fascist parties in italy as i was mentioned before if you look at the their Political Programs theyre very similar theyre both nationally east they both want to stop migrants to come to enter actually. Their very traditionally catholic they say slum wants to invade europe they are against abortion. The most against the globalization both against the influence of the usa i need to be in both in favor for a russian lets say so if you look at the Political Program of the me the party headed by so many youll see its very similar so what happens in the elections is that these 2 new fascist party and sorts and didnt get you can get enough votes to have their representatives elected into the parliament at the same time the league got 34 percent of the votes which is the biggest result they they have are ahead so according to many tali and political analysts much most of the. Voters. In the end decided to vote for the lead and this is why the me was able to get 34 percent of the votes all right michel if we if we could go beyond italy for a moment and look at look at europe more broadly in the rise of these these groups stefana brings up a number of issues there that are that are driving this like immigration globalization and so on to what extent do you see do you see this driving the rise of far right movements elsewhere in europe. You know of course i mean the movements put on the agenda the problem so if you me gratian they are usually very const closely very much expressing homophobia and negative attitudes towards people and equality rights for gay and straight people in a society so there are some things that are very much common for them one thing that i think should we mentioned is the connection with russia and of course when you think about these weapons found in italy i mean they are of no use probably in the current politico activity of movements and parties like forts and what during their home countries but that they might be useful for their socalled International Missions and unfortunately we know that in poland for example the far right wing movement. Was active in the fights in don bus in the eastern or crane joining the russian russian sponsored forces in that area and recently Political Capital institute in hungary made the whole list of right wing extremists the police the sions in the Eastern Europe who have very close ties to russia and to the and and to particularly in the context of war were you know cranes so does this context of. Pro russian these mob this party we just kind of historically paradoxical because they are the young nazis i mean they are very much referring to the nazi nazi rhetorics but to the connection with russia i think seems to be also something which is very similar in in many contexts and the last think hes what already has been mentioned here they kind of mainstreaming of their ideas into the mainstream right wing parties because for example in poland the right wing extremist parties are losing popularity theyre not gaining support significantly but what has really changed is that much of their a genda. Can be now seen in the mainstream the same is true about hungary when its no longer youll be which is proposing the extremist right wing views but rather the central right wing foetuses taking their their ideas so i would say. That their impact on politics most of the in terms of gender setting rather than having their own members of Parliament Members of europe and parliament are having some power as parties as movements you mention never did did did the russian connection michel and i just want to explore that a little bit more what what what what do you think is russias motivation then if theyre supporting these groups is it is it more about just trying to sow chaos in europe and to sort of upset the european liberal order. Its very hard to discuss motivations behind what we can know whats the consequence of that and the consequences this time please ation of political life in europe. Creating a sense of couse and we know that in the sense of cause its much you can much easier. Create an impact on political Decision Making and this might be the potential for the listening russian influence in the region. We talked a lot there about how immigration seems to be driving a lot of this increased immigration in europe their resentment towards migrants and so on but how much it has economics played a role in all of this because we had we had the financial crisis just over a decade ago many people in europe havent really fully recovered from that is to what extent is that feeding resentment do you think. I think that if. All. Parties or individuals that are in power there might be. A crisis 2. Years i do think. Problematic. Whether it uses a canal mates or immigrations of refugees certainly doesnt help the use of certain racist. Reluctance to condemn attacks. On so till all these groups and economic sometimes provide provides a useful ground for for some of these groups to perpetrate their i. D. s its much easier to condemn other. Immigrants especially when there is an economic crisis they see. These kind of referee because of all the games more talks and increases the support that can find a cause Different Countries but it gets italy. Or. He think their popularity. Has affected mainstream Political Parties where many they seem to be giving ground to them in some areas of policy where they wouldnt have done a few years ago for fear of losing more ground to the far right. Its important to. Work for the focuses on. Thats actually really important for us whether thats with. The violent. Violent end of the of. The share the violent end of the movements emboldened by a long violent one. By the use of the party of etheric or narratives by Political Parties sure but little or no let me put that then to stefan do you think that this kind of rhetoric has has kind of seeped into the mainstream Political Parties across europe in that some of them have adopted. Some of the some of the ideas the policies of restricting immigration and so on for fear of not of losing further support to them. I would say definitely yes at least need to leave as i was mentioning before a Political Programs of the new fascist party is the only 2 we have any 2. Showing up at the elections. Are very similar to the ones of the italys leading part of the moment the league i remember there was an investigation by italian couldve been you a few years ago and they record of a member an activist for a member of force. And he was telling to a Better Future of the leader of the party well you should go to salvini and tell him that hes saying exactly the same 1000 of we have been saying for years so in this kind of recording we can see exactly what you were mentioning when you were asking before so yes the Mainstream Party were able to digest. Ideologies there were there were something that used to be only connected to far right political or Political Parties up to a few years ago and now these are becoming mainstream ideas and michelle to what extent do you think. You want to you want to chime in there. To whats the fun i was saying 1st of all because. Exactly you have an impression that is also about sometimes a person personal decisions because recently in poland we had a person from this rightwing extremist movements incorporated in the National Government so the vice minister of to get that info and hes a person who was previously organizing marches of independence and he had very close contacts to for of course on what i need tell you so you can see how close are these environments that we have more or less mainstream Political Party cookies in the British Parliament and this party invited for some 2 of the 2 to visit the polish parliament and. Connections between the mainstream parties and the extremists is becoming increasingly visible one think in terms of a gent an insight into terms of ideology with which seems to be created by right to extremists in europe and now became prevalent also in the mainstream politics is conspiracy theories most of these right wing extremist parties were built on very strong conspiracy theories about george soros about jewish institutions about joint influences about liberal liberal. Liberal governments conspiring against the people and now you can see how slowly and slowly these kind of ideas and these kind of theories are getting expressed also by their leaders such as. Poland or viktor orban in hungary and we know that in times of turmoil in tight in difficult times in times of instability where people lose the sense of control over politics these conspiracy theories organize their knowledge they are helpful in restoring the sense of security and certainty and maybe this is why these ideas that are created on extreme far right became so prevalent today in politics also in the mainstream politics i want to ask you as well to what extent has the internet. Played a role in all of this in particular social media in fueling the rise of these groups i mean one former white supremacist describe the internet as a 24 hour hate buffet the idea that its always there and its easily accessible how how much of a factor is that this is so this is the influence of Internet Activity on such actions are obvious and in many cases for example i think was in case of the pittsburgh synagogue shooting in the United States and several other attacks of extreme right wing violence you could see that these people became radicalized on 4 chan 8 or in the radical social media but this is true also about the mainstream social media like legal like twitter where the debate becomes very much influenced by the pressures from the from the radicalized voices and it seems that much of the of the radicalization current of the and were talking about any form of radicalization but particularly so about the right to radicalization it happens in the social media and our Research Shows that people are exposed to hate speech on on internet india and start to generate such language much more often and so it is a way to transform people who are relatively tolerant into haters into racist and maybe even into terrorist and if such weapons are around use such weapons are accessible to such movements as we could see in italy. You represent a group that is trying to counter this movement particularly as you said earlier violent extremism what are some of the ways that today you try to do that to your nation tries to do that so the americans are who. Has allowed by an extremist. Groups to you but who and radicalize im president im grateful life active a major forums include in twitter a spec you tube also my. Forums and on imports i created the. Forums when accor United States have taken on some of the lawyer. Places like it was also one of this forums on the internet and its a white supremacist. Technology as that basically the use of technology by right wing extremist groups has evolved over the last few years which of course was as talent but it also sort of presents us with with an opportunity and we like to see a much as an opportunity because every individual is coordinating the sort of space most of the time has a presence online and this presence and i. Believe breadcrumbs related to the often activity a lot of times. By searching for how to join certain groups or to buy certain that related to. Google or whether its about sharing some of the content of these foods their views or more performative. And this president has been an opportunity because it allows us to find them. And to provide them with the help that they need to actually turn out to be and so whether this is true local come to messaging campaigns youre going to say some that i work for one of. The global redirect methot which is based on. Using advertising just like. General commercial companies do to identify and reach individuals online and then be direct them away from buying content and towards more positive counternarrative. Down to one to one interventions where individuals are identified online that are one to one conversations are established with intervention providers makes thema. Serapis thank counsel is really whatever been the angels might want. To make sure that they can successfully transition ochlik so is the mens and then once these trustees from the station is a star the star like the conversation then turns a sense into the off like a space where theyre given the support that they need to sort of these engage and to integrate into society or i were going to have to leave it there or want to thank all 3 of you for taking part stephano very genius michel it and. Georgie thanks very much for being on inside story and thank you as always for watching ramy you can see this program any time by visiting our website at aljazeera dot com and for further discussion you can go to our Facebook Page that facebook dot com forward slash a. J. Inside story you can also join the conversation on twitter our handle there is at a. J. Inside story and for me has a cigarette and the whole team here by finale thank. You. 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