U. S. And most of the e. U. Its yet to be recognized by serbia russia or china. To stay with us inside stories up next on that. Thirteen russians have been accused of interfering in the us president ial elections to sway the vote in favor of. These indictments do not mention collusion and moscow says the charges are irrelevant but the broader investigation is far from over so what happens next this is inside story. Hello and welcome to the program today with me peter davi russias alleged interference in the twenty sixteen president ial election in the United States is long plagued donald trump since he took office and now a federal grand jury has concluded the russians did play a role on friday thirteen russian nationals and three Russian Companies were indicted for meddling in the president ial Campaign Quotes russia says there is no evidence to support that but the u. S. Special counsel Robert Muller says an attempt was made to sway Public Opinion and to promote republican Donald Trumps campaign ahead of his democratic rival Hillary Clinton did it have an impact on the election result trump has tweeted it did not well find out what i guests think in a moment but first rose jordan with this report. The Munich Security Conference often focuses on weapons of mass destruction regional war and the threat from road nations and groups but at this years meeting the conflict is between russia and the us which is now and died thirteen russian citizens for allegedly interfering in the two thousand and sixteen president ial race the Russian Foreign minister Sergey Lavrov called the indictments irrelevant. So until we hear the facts Everything Else is just blather the indictment says otherwise the defendants allegedly were promoting Donald Trumps candidacy and undermining that of his democratic rival Hillary Clinton. One example an anti trump protest march in new york shortly after his election allegedly organized by the defendants and not by ordinary americans the allegation is that the russians were using the anti trump protest to cover their tracks in supporting him the special counsel Robert Muller has indicted thirteen russian citizens and three companies for allegedly interfering in the two thousand and sixteen elections according to the unsealed indictment the accused allegedly conspired from two thousand and fourteen until now to interfere with the u. S. Political and electoral processes including the two thousand and sixteen election the special counsel alleges that the group posed as americans and controlled social media accounts focusing on divisive social and political issues one important point the indictment does not allege that anyone in the Donald Trump Campaign colluded actively with the russians the u. S. National security advisor h r mcmaster told conference delegates the rumors of russian interference are now fact the United States will expose and act against those who use cyberspace social media and other means to advance campaigns of the. Formation subversion and espionage the former Russian Ambassador to the United States long accused of using his post to interfere in u. S. Affairs told delegates the indictments are nothing more than fear mongering and whatever. The amount of the against. A simply fantasies is that theyre being heels for political reasons inside the United States roslyn jordan aljazeera washington. So heres what we know so far u. S. Intelligence agencies believe russia wanted to ensure the twenty sixteen president ial vote was in favor of donald trump its alleged Russian Hackers attempted to undermine the rival candidate Hillary Clinton by providing her Campaign Details to wiki leaks thousands of the Democratic Partys internal emails were leaked several congressional committees were set up to investigate including one led by the then f. B. I. Director james comey he was later sacked by mr trump fueling speculation the president was trying to interfere with the inquiry Robert Muller was then appointed a special counsel to find out if anyone from the Trump Campaign team colluded with the russians it was reported trump would also be investigated for possible obstruction of justice members of the president s inner circle have been questioned former Campaign Manager paul mann of ford has been charged with conspiring to defraud the United States in his dealings with ukraine two former advisors were also involved George Papadopoulos confessed he lied to the f. B. I. And Michael Flynn admitted making false statements about a meeting he had with the Russian Ambassador ok lets bring in our guests today joining us from washington d. C. Bruce fein a former u. S. Associate Deputy Attorney general in moscow yes just love to solve a former russian diplomat and also in washington on skype Sean Michael Cox director of the office of International Academic affairs there in the states a warm welcome to all of you bruce fein in washington first is this just blather or something else. Well i think its something in between on the one sense because all the indictees are russian the companies are russia the likelihood of an actual trial to test the version of the veracity of the allegations the indictment is close to zero there is no extradition treaty the United States has with russia theyre not likely to turn over the accused voluntarily they havent done it with ed snowden they have more reason to be reluctant with regard to their own citizens so we dont know whether the actual allegations will be tested in a fair way to determine their truthfulness or not now its certainly more than blather when we speak about what its political ramifications are i think that the fact that there seems to be unanimity not only with the Intelligence Community but in congress that russia did intend rather they succeeded or not to influence the outcome of the two thousand and sixteen elections by deceiving social media as the identity of persons who are making comments will result in tighter legislation that will impose greater sanctions on russia make it more difficult to try to reduce the tensions that are leading to something that might be called the new Nuclear Arms Race and i think politically it will be make it make it very difficult not only for president trunk but for a successor president to try to get back to what we call the era of at least a peaceful coexistence detente because the animosity is very very high with regard to the russian attempt to influence whether its justified or not thats just a reality my own view is that we also attempt to intervene and influence the outcome of elections elsewhere i spoke to someone who actually was involved in the United States effort when he was posted yesterday less than a year ago to moscow to try to influence the outcome of the elections there of course the ability is much less. Up opportune because let the freedom of of. The vote there in russia is not at all what it is in the United States but this is something that all nations state do thats a whole different conversation we believe that one for another day yes love to solve in moscow if its not blather surely its something more than that im interested whats your thinking on why mr lavrov needs to dismiss this why does he need to get beyond this given what mcmaster was saying at the same security conference it is now an established accepted fact that russia meddled particularly for some people very high up in this us administration. I seeing that russian factor in inside american policy it is not. Right we saw guns throw up International Relations relations with russia because of course it is prohibited to interference in tunnel affairs especially electoral process for president over the United States or Russian Federation and they if they had such a teen person russian region that they will aiding american law and for all documentation wait game and. Inside the United States i think it is or are up to all the American Court to decide and to judge them were and nobody in russia will be against because it is punished not only in the United States and in russia too but as i referred to that article in bloomberg. The bank is seven. Thousand sixteen while it was in las vegas. It did the big eight a bet when Hillary Clinton and donald trump and this article shows mad at how donald trump we know the public American Public he was supported not the russians sucked in person from coming for a mirage obvious for all documentation as it is laid down in the miller. Paper i think if they cannot play and you significant role it just broke a step i agree was fully im going to just interrupt you there for a second is to myself that the significance of the role is in itself highly significant its not about percentages its about the fact that they according to Robert Muller they did it and they did it successfully thats the key thing here i dont consider that they were concerned again amended to say that. I want to add that its nonsense to say that all the russians want to have a trial if that were true mr putin would be handing over the accused to the United States already so that there could be a trial so the assertion ali the russians want there to be a trial to determine whether there was foreign interference in American Elections is nonsense show michael cox lets bring you in from washington as well mr trump his first reaction was of course to go on to twitter saying there was no collusion that is that smoke and mirrors on the part of the white house because these indictments very carefully did not talk about collusion point number one point number two as mr trump excepted a change to the landscape here because hes now not using the h word hes not talking about its a hoax he can surely carry that one off. And surprisingly the trump camp focused on two parts of the indictment announcement one that no american willingly participated in activities and second that any of these activities had no impact on the elections so hes claiming a victory there that in fact russian interference whatever it was and will ultimately find out what it was had no impact on it is being elected president so he thinks hes been winning there as for it being a hoax hes been playing a whole longer whole time letters and sacks and construction of the state news media as he calls it and of the Democratic Party and his camp still is emphasizing that as well that this is actually very little thing and its only the democrats and the opposition media thats making it a big deal yes that must serve in moscow if mr miller has got this right this speaks to Old Fashioned cold war espionage overlaid with a quite unsafe istic eighty two use of Technology Yes or no well i think thats not from both sides the god given year. Continuing because espionage from both sides russian and american we cannot concentrate attention on the on russian the spanish deal surely it doesnt it doesnt its here only matter should it does not materially matter whether theres espionage on both sides because were talking here about the us election having been skewed not the Russian Election or that its the significant point here well we watched where it tentatively ference of the United States in demonstration then russia involved in a square for example the us three years ago what they do americans they are it delayed did their being growed in the center of moscow get in or goes to move from one corner of the square to the ennahda from t. V. Internet t. V. And they pull in russian speaking and i think were sitting in San Francisco going on our show michael cox you want to come into the area and that in fact. I want to say that thats not the russia or the issue at hand the issue at hand is talking about the indictment russians of interference in the u. S. Elections if any russian Government Organization or Court Indicts americans and we can talk about that what were talking about here is the role that russian links troll groups clearly in trying to influence elections going back as far as two thousand and fourteen thats whats important here and the reality surely as well bruce and i dont think i had a level he has pardon me actual laws have been broken real laws Real International laws covering spying covering espionage. Well the certainly laws in the United States make it a felony for if youre a foreigner to do anything of value to influence the outcome of an election whether or not you succeed and that clearly seems to have been done in this particular case and moreover in typical spy it contacts you ask you know who benefits who has the incentive to do this and we know that mr putin the president of russia was quite hostile to Hillary Clinton he thought that she had made efforts that were disparaging about his reelection being fixed and had an incentive to get back in the theory that she was going to be much more tough with regard to russia if he were elected than donald trump you know her reset button really didnt reset anything except for the worse so why would there be an incentive for just some russian citizen with no connection to putin to come in and try to influence the outcome of an American Election when theres nothing in it for a private russian citizen who would only be the government that would benefit and thats why i think it points the finger right directly at the kremlin yes that must. Feel foreign minister mr lever olds why does he constantly refer back to this kind of and russia agenda he says he claims if one reads what hes written or listens to his interviews he claims there is an end to russian agenda say in the vote the move towards independence in catalonia he says there is and the russian agenda play behind the whole brics it vote im intrigued to know as to why the Foreign Ministry in most screw feels threatened by this kind of thing and therefore as a consequence of feeling threatened has to meddle with things. In russia. Absolutely i believe that. All this convict russia for interference based on. Internal american polish because democrats lost their. Electoral process and donald trump when it it was on the expected this step now is that a bit until now they cannot come down and they accept this. Well done the drama as a president and responsibility should be. Blazed on. The hands that russians are are here responsible for that i think that they lost because of different sayings it cost Hillary Clinton the years Larry Oconnor and. Means for sure. Electoral company and donald trump as as i refer at this article in bloomberg because it was work and it was internet all his money he poured upon it im going to stop you there because we have another discussion since we have done the discuss in detail and he has not we have done the discussion to death on this child hell as to why Hillary Clinton lost Sean Michael Cox one point to you keeping it within the context of what were discussing today for the white house is there a sense that mcmaster might be something of a loose cannon because instead of reacting defensively hes reacting almost very openly very transparently and saying look weve got these indictments there from Robert Muller you dont want Robert Mueller going through your underwear drawer or your trash can because hes empowered to do that kind of thing hes very powerful hes got powers of inquiry therefore it must be real no smoke without fire troops management style has been to build up those this courtroom and not close down it seems. To be going off the ranks of those that are setting new standards so mcmaster has followed along very closely and it is actually quite surprising that he is trying to support your assurance and. Maybe it will just temporarily fall asleep or. He might be back to the line which is what the white house wants to be seen discussing and so. It is actually very surprising that. After this transfer of bruce fein if these allegations are true so surprising hold me for interrupting you again if these allegations on the disprove show you the Trump Presidency therefore lacks lacks legitimacy difficult to quantify how much legitimacy at lenox but it certainly goes down a notch or two well maybe a little i dont think that the American People are going to feel that mr trump is illegitimate because of this particular indictment its a one man theres never going to be a trial and oftentimes you know anonymous speeches is oftentimes protected under the First Amendment in the United States whether its true or false i think thats a small issue i think number one going back to the very early or observations that what mr macmaster said is basically what everybody outside the white house is saying other than mr trumps inner circle its not just mcmaster its all the republican and the Republican Leadership in congress is the director of National Intelligence which trump appointed its his cia director mr pompey o which mr trump appointed all of the republicans are even more forceful then the democrats in condemning russia and demanding that there be additional sanctions now theres one other element that weve overlooked that could be very important that is i think the indictment now almost is a shield for mr molder against being discharged because now if trump fires mr molder it looks like now youre trying to cover up and protect the russians and thats a far different thing then try and get mahler because hed indicted carter pager or. Mr flynn or someone else who had pled guilty and that i think is an important component of this particular indictment yes lengths of in moscow surely if this no means as well that most go is quotes on notice so what who cares it wont go any place because as bruce fein identified at the top of our discussion there is no extradition agreement between moscow and washington so even if people are indicted theyre not going to end up in a court of law in the United States well as far as this question i can come prayer all declaration of the on the ground before the election and his policy after election and what we were because he did declare ration before election where ready heart they demanded to have better relations with russia privately relations were his potent and that was a subject for democrats who want to not go give chaunced of dont like drama dont do well of this ideas and i seeing that what is good not what now we are watching between russia and youre not just states and the boat dont know drama in the restricted area not to lead him to fulfill all his promises before elections show my course on a selected on his because he is his for example in vietnam he was escaping from even welcoming putin he was doesnt want to speak your strongest of all we get we. Need to show michael called lame is it too late for trump to pivot away from the every time i talk to Vladimir Putin he tells me he didnt do anything wrong therefore i know hes innocent lying because thats a line hes been going with for what three months now four months maybe its not too late for you to do it but it was actually an important for him to consider is there two things one were rule or investigation leave because its not over. The scene actually senate. We have these are. Just a geisha. Trying to consider were going to and they should probably do something around here to burn trying to do. What the secretary considered this year is relatively primitive attempts to influence u. S. Elections and maybe it was just a first round what land or in senate floor two thousand eight hundred strong actions of the two thousand and three president ial elections and how will russia manifest itself for those bruce fein in washington as well does this undercuts some republicans or does it undercut some of the traction that they want to deploy when it comes to carrying on with the lock up faux news we dislike Hillary Clinton still the democrats whilst propagating the trump agenda well it certainly it undercuts that and i want to underscore contrary to your area visitor from moscow the republicans more than the democrats have been vociferous against the russian interference or attempted interference through the social media to dictate the outcome of the two thousand and sixteen elections its not a democratic model anymore its bipartisan on this score and trumps out there alone the last legislation that called for ratcheting up sanctions on russia was almost unanimous almost unheard of in the United States congress where most of the divisions are quite partisan but there is a consensus on both sides and i do think trump runs the risk that if he does nothing and remains passive despite the overwhelming evidence that russia continues according to the Intelligence Community the temp to influence the elections in two thousand and eighteen like two thousand and sixteen if there is some kind of detection of hacking into Voter Registration rolls the count state or local elections trump is going to take a hit because it will look like it was his passiveness that enabled encourage russia to move forward on this so i think unless you retract very much from what he stated about his credit. Mr putin to tell him the truth he will be politically damaged by this but take it or indictment in its aftermath gentlemen we have to leave it there thanks to all our guests today bruce fein yes love myself and Sean Michael Cox and thank you to you too for your company you can see the program again and its im via the web site al jazeera dot com and for further discussion to check out our Facebook Page thats facebook dot com forward slash a. J. Inside story you can also join the conversation on twitter handle at a. J. Inside story or tweet me also if you back on that its a double whammy for me peter dhabi and everyone on the team here in doha thanks for watching the season by. The way we communicate is what defines us. You dont always has been. As innovation in technology continues to shape our lives. By any ring content creation and distribution utilizing Cloud Technology and dr fisher intelligent. The future thats never seemed closer than it does today. And what lies beyond the horizon. Take us to a friend to see the future of media leaders some. Limited abilities. A unique poor trait of a small gulf nation living under siege what made this different was they targeted. Their pain to be forced to leave would just be all and their gains by the celeb it has given us the desire to carry on with our lives and be creative maybe others are in downs its normal its part of business. Has become more united. Beyond the blockade at this time on aljazeera. More than a century ago britain and france made a secret deal to divide the middle east between them now we can draw a map. But what were the last thing a facts of this agreement theres a regional set to six because its at those borders were drawn without consulting the people how to live with the. Psych speak lines in the sand at this time on aljazeera. It was always telling you how famous he was going to make it thats how he presented hello my name about it without manchester citys northwest representatives can. Do to put it all. As the jury member that we had the special meeting about the nail and he said no. Thats not the topic and you immediately this is a cover up in a piece on the on the city yeah al jazeera investigation put all of silence this time. This is al jazeera. And i arent hey this is the news hour live from london coming up. You can take back to do a message to the current structure on