Al jazeera famous. This is really an attack on the truth itself is a lot of misunderstanding of what free speech is supposed to be about the context of hugely important setting the stage for a serious debate up front at this time on aljazeera. You can. See. Ricardo diallo is a french activist feminist filmmaker and writer a long time anti racism campaigner she has found herself at the center of a debate about racism and free speech in france last year she was forced to step down from the governments Digital Council an incident that only served to reinforce hope belief that france has a problem with state sponsored racism today on talk to aljazeera we discuss the social issues shes fighting to push toward frances agenda and whether shes hopeful the country can bring its people together. A cardiology thank you for talking to aljazeera now first i want to start off with the fact that you were one of the two people appointed to this french Digital Council it is a committee that advises the government on Digital Affairs but you are asked to step down why actually the government was asked by people who disagree with my views to evict me from from the council. And i was not even asked by the government to step out of the government issued a statement to say that he asked the head of the digital to make me go away from me the fact that i was talking stage races on state sponsored this isnt what i was supporting muslim women who wanted to wear the he job if they wanted to and many it was basically it was that those views do wear. I frame my views on the recession and the racism in french inference. So i want to talk to you about that because as you say one of the main complaints that people had against those who actually austria to be forced out is council was the fact that youve talked about state racism what is state races and few are you saying that the french state its institutions all races im saying that the french institutions produce racism in france if you are perceived as an arab or as a black person you are twenty times more likely to be checked if you are a man than any any other category of the populations meaning that the police is overcontrolling a category of the population and the police is an institution of a different from rick and you have several examples of institutions being or having different ways of tweeting treating some people or because of their race i can also mention the fact that in france was to have overseas territories that used to be colonies and now our friends. In those departments you can use search and account of pretty sites and you can spread them over those territories which is bound in the french mainland so to me given the fact that those. Islands and territories are most people created by people of color is mean that you have a difference of treatment between a need of a friend people who live in the mainland who are mostly white and french people who live in those territories. Just to pick up the point about the police i mean it could be that there are certain people within the police force who are racist perhaps our racism and in the police force but does that necessarily mean that the state is supporting them i mean are you saying that the state is actively promoting and supporting racism the fact is that the Supreme Court in friends sentenced to stage four. For racial profiling. To defend itself the state say that that those profiling that were focused mainly on black blacks and arabs were just defied so the state doesnt even deny the fact that the police is overcontrolling black people and arab people or mostly men so to me that means that there is nothing that is done to prevent that and france has been also sentence several times by the European Court of human rights because of that and many institutions after i call that do you. Know rights watch and the international saying that france isnt doing anything to protect. Its citizens of color from Police Brutality and from pretties for fighting so what about the french people i mean to make a difference between institutionalized state racism and the French Public all the French Public places because im part of the French Public as a friend first and so when i say that there is reason from Different Institution im not saying that all the french people are this is i just im just saying that the state should implement measures to stop that how about you in your personal experience because you are the daughter of african parents you are woman you are muslim but you are often in Mainstream Media you often contribute to television to radio you are a french personality what is your experience been i mean have you managed to navigate the system in france how the. Dunnit i feel like im an exception because if she was different she you dont see that many faces looking like mine and today i really consider that i have a privilege and i try to use that privilege to tackle racism because i know that many of my fil a french citizen the one thats white doesnt have im not as mickey as i am and they dont have the means to be vocal and to make public statements the kind of this meant that they used to make public and i have a feeling that being a black woman and the black muslim woman i dont have the right to say as much as. As other people who are there because well because when whenever i start to speak about racism in the way i do i have much backlash so lets talk a bit now about frances new president a man womack or do you think in some way things might change because from the outside at least it seems as if he might have a more inclusive vision of france. I think that he does have a more inclusive vision of france because he belongs to a different generation compared to the former president so the way he sees friends is actually very different from the people from the former generations because hes used to see friends with diverse face but the other thing is that he was part of the print the previous government so what is implementing now is not that different from what was started before as he was the minister of finance. The other thing is that we used to be under a state of emergency for two years from two thousand and fifteen and two thousand and seventeen and. Pushed a new load to replace the state of emergency but to me it was just. Many zation of the state of emergency because the state of emergency elos. The police to have powers that it doesnt have out of that state of emergency and its really reduces the power of the judges to me that doesnt work just create the feeling among a lot of deliberation that they dont belong so if the state of emergency perhaps isnt the signal that you would have liked to have seen if it wasnt cancelled could you not say theyre going back to man or mark or the whether you agree them or not he has instituted the sort of change that youve actually been talking about in some ways because you have the National Assembly which now has made up of many health women people from Civil Society people from diverse backgrounds people very much like yourself is not known changes that move in the right direction its a very very good move so there are thirty nine percent of women. As well as a matter which is not how often but quite much as. It was before all you have many. Who are people have. Who are from who are mentioned in the former engineer ation so thats a very average age as drop down and its a very very good move but if you want your government to move in that as good as it was before the only doubt only two people of color in the government one is the minister of course and the other one was the one who asked me to resign from the country and hes not the hes not the most important member of the government that would have been very important to have someone holding a very important and strong but still its a its a new generation who is who has the power and thats something i can definitely be happy about so lets move on to that very very french concept of secularism its called life in france and to is its oh its a way of life in a way for the french state its all about trying to make sure that religion has no influence in government and schools and institutions in hospitals france has very strict secular laws what do you think about. I think its a very very good principle that say that there is a separation between religion and the state and that different republican public is supporting the freedom of religion and freedom of conciousness meaning that you can believe on the believe you will be supported in your freedom by the government so that thats a very very good thing on the paper so one of frances best known secular laws forbids people to wear any visible very visible religious symbols such as keep this fails crosses in state institutions so they cant wear them in schools they cant wear them in hospitals what do you think about that i know youve been quite vocal on this point yes the thing is to me that will ease an exemption to the principle of place to do it so the law of two thousand and four by. The religious signs in schools for students the principle of this says that if you are Public Servant and you dont you cannot show in the end display in the religious symbol which makes sense but if you are a user of Ability Service youre not supposed to be neutral so it was a case for all the Public Services until two thousand and four which made which made an exception with school so now as a user of school you have to be neutral as if you were if you were a Public Servant when i was not the principal i place it in the more its so low but we had to go to a new low to be added to the law that started the principle of racing in ninety five because that law didnt illo that you know to me school is a place where you can learn about diversity and its important that the teacher. Show neutrality display neutrality but the students dont have to be to be bound by such measures because theyre not actually done theyre not in contract with the state i mean the french state would say that all of those children should be seen as equal they should be nothing visible the might mark one child out from another so do you think that in principle is a good idea or not it is beautiful but the reality is quite different and it. Wasnt the head of schools in a very very strange. Place because they have to guess the religion of searching students because if a black student wears a headscarf is it religious is its cultural they have been controversy. Because of some students who were there he job out of school they put it out when they go to school but they have long. Skirts and some head of schools and of high schools especially said that it was a religious skirt so you would interpret the skirt as being religious because you know that the student is muslim but if another one who is not muslim wear the same skirt is not a problem anymore and to me that does it for instance is just a way for this to do is to learn to live through to live together. The whole conversation in fronts around the veil has also become very much. Linked to womens rights you hear government ministers people in the public often talk about the violence say that it is an erosion of womens rights and therefore facts is reason to balance it in school what do you think about that and i think that the first ride thats a woman have is to do whatever she wants to do with her body so if you want to cover your body you should be free to do so and she dont want to cover to cover your body you shouldnt be forced to do so and you should be supported in having the right of removing its you know the head scarf or whatever covers it. Its really its a very posh revising way of seeing women saying that ok we have a way. We see freedom means being dressed in that way and we would have to muslim women to understand that freedom is uncovering and we will even force you to uncover to make you understand that all feminism is right that its very ethnocentric and very patronising. Feminism to me because we are. You said that i was muslim i dont cover myself but i dont want everybody to look like me i can totally understand that some women in my family would like to cover and we are belonging to the same time media we are still missing and i dont want to. Criticize them because they are they have their own we are as women all right so lets talk about feminism now because you have written extensively and you talk a lot about womens rights you campaign a lot for womens rights we have seen recently a huge Global Movement against Sexual Harassment the Womens Movement the need to campaign on social media what have you thought about that is it progress yes to me its a major progress its even according to. Turning point. Because women used to try to say and to be vocal about the harassment that they are exposed to every day the fact that they have. There are surrounded by. Men who think that they can. They can. Access to their body in the way they want they can pressure them to use the way the fact that there are women to gain some favors. And it was not something that was very public it was something that women used to speak about together in a behind closed door but it was in the door sorry but it was not public in front there was a letter written im sure youre familiar with a. Newspaper one of the main newspapers here in france it was signed by a hundred prominent french women including the Movie ActressCatherine Deneuve and this letter basically said to me to campaign at this this Womens Movement against Sexual Harassment was in a way puritanical and men should be allowed to make sexual sexual advances on women why not for them they said women on victims we are strong is that not another brand of feminism im not sure about the fact that even claim feminism because that tax was proclaiming the right for the men to further women i dont know have you come how you can say that and at the same time say that you defend women so i remember that the text mentioned men who molested women in the in the in the in the ways its been something very commonly in friends who have men theyre using the fact that they can have proximity with women to just with their body of close to them and they said that to some women it was not even an event. The first thing is that i dont. In the in the french material so i dont think that she knows what she speaks about and the other thing is that how can you say that its not an event having a mind that youve never seen in your life putting his body on you and not being not being able to scream because youre afraid because there are too many people because you shocked you in shock so to me its a very conservative backlash and it would even if you have a look on the list of the women you will see that they are mostly from or another generation ive just got a few more things to ask you in there about some of the things that youve spoken about in the past you wrote in the Huffington Post in twenty fifteen it was an article about immigration exotic about refugees it was the height of the refugee crisis in europe and you said im ashamed to live on a continent where the immigration policy consists of building walls where money spent on barricades instead of investing in human destiny that was back in twenty fifteen are you still ashamed to live in europe and why i am because. I have seen what happened in thailand i have seen. Immigrants living in the streets even in my neighborhood in Paris Police Officers coming destroying terence stopping preventing n. G. O. S from giving water to young people. Its its an acceptable its unacceptable to know that the e. U. Is spending much more money on barricades. On supporting people from other countries. Just to make a living i have seen a woman delivering her baby in the in the streets in paris a young woman from africa france has never been as well coming as germany when i compare france or germany i can see that there is a problem because we do we have never consider. Opening the borders to people from syria or from countries out there are out war where people really need to get asylum from you talked about germany germany sweden there are countries that of done a lot to help refugees so in a sense when you say youre ashamed to live on this continent i mean those are European Countries i think that there are several different policies in europe and some countries are much more welcoming and friends even in threat if science has been for a long time a country of immigration i want to ask you one one last thing about something that you have said before i mean its quite complex there was this this outcry here in paris the afro feminists collective its an organization had a festival in paris they organized some workshops some of them were prohibited to north African Women others were open and there was a big outcry at the time because it was seen that white french people were being banned from these workshops i read the you said the north African Women asian women were also not so loud. But whoever was most into loud isnt it still some form of segregation you know because segregation is something that comes from the state and that really instore account of the hierarchy so saying that there are people who have moved more value that other people those workshops where men for black women just to meet and to speak about their issues for a couple of paris so that doesnt threaten anything regarding the low its just a space where black women can speak about the issues that can be discrimination that they are facing the very specific discrimination that theyre fifteen as black women you have some other activities that would be open to all women of color because as a woman of color you dont experience the same kind of racism as men of color and as white people definitely so its led to me is not a threat and i was kind of surprised by the attention that small festival gained because in paris for example there is a place that is called little little club which is a very wealthy place where rich men can. Gather and meet together and its not a load for women to go there so if me as a woman i want to use their pool i wouldnt be i would be banned but there is a difference between excluding people and prohibiting them from going to an organization a club or meeting and holding a meeting in assuming that people might come along i mean there is a difference between saying you are not welcome. In the same way that the Automobile Club that you mention. Its obviously something i imagine that you dont admire the fact that women are excluded the fact that they reserve band on a certain type of person or gender whatever it might be is something that you would normally support so why is it different in this case because its made it made. People who dont have many spaces to express themselves to have for once one space to express themselves without being interrupted without having people doubt team of the time that there are exposed to discriminations to choose mockeries even if even sometimes its Something Like this time its just having a couple of hours to speak about you know how it how it is to be a black woman in france and its something that you can do with someone who is not a black woman but its not a project of for the for the French Society its not something that they were they would like to be in store for ever. I understand that but why ban them why prohibit people from coming you can have that meeting theres no reason for a group of African Women not to meet together and talk i mean most people probably wouldnt want to go to that meeting unless they had an interest to go to that meeting so why say to some people who arent african who want women you are not welcome if you are a woman you have been exposed to Sexual Harassment even to rapes you know that the conversation between women who have been explored exposed to Sexual Assault weve not been the same if there is a man a man in the room is not excluding the man is a lowing the women to express themself themselves freely because there are some topics that you cannot speak comfortably about if there are some people who are not affected by the issues the issues you raise you your brain seeing ok suggest finding work. Looking for it i mean how do you feel about the state of france because theres a lot of concern im hearing a lot of concern what about the future is there any hope yes i really think that there is hope if i had i was not hopeful i wouldnt be an activist and i wouldnt try to work on those issues so im sure that there is much hope there is a new generation that is coming who are starting to be vocal too to raise awareness on issues that didnt used to be mainstream before so the fact that we are speaking this who have as hear about friends and race me as a black human being in the lakes where back in those issues even if its not easy every day to me its a sign of change and im really hopeful about the future. All right thank you very much thanks for talking to presume it was a pleasure. For the congolese the journey to work all aboard that means unimaginable hardship i prefer to live though because they got the call can truth chancing life and live on a dangerous journey through the jungle. And from home to do a real job for a nearly died. Over children go to school and live because of the trade of risking it all the democratic republic of congo at this time on aljazeera the nature of news as it breaks the u. S. Cut the funding has cemented the feeling here that the u. S. Is now part of the problem and has picked the israeli side with details coverage the Nigerian Government insists negotiations are ongoing to secure the release of the girls and hundreds of others. From around the world three decades on chileans are still thinking about abuses but this time those committed by the church. The. News has never been more available its a constant barrage of it with every day but the message is a simplistic you have been trained good logical rational person crazy monsters and misinformation is rife dismissal and well documented accusation and evidence is part of genocide the listening post provides a critical counterpoint challenging Mainstream Media narratives at this time on aljazeera i was always telling you how famous he was going to make it thats how he presented hello my name and body without manchester citys northwest representatives kind of. Teacher put it all. I should you were a member of that were on the special meeting about. And he said you know. After the new year maybe this is a color you know peace on the mainland city aljazeera investigation. Of silence this time on counting the cost well talk to i. M. F. Chief christina god about how the economic model is changing here in the middle east can ireland break regs it find out how the emerald isle is caught in the middle of a big round between the u. K. And the e. U. Plus the year of the dog in china counting the cost at this time on. The defendants allegedly conducted what they Call Information warfare against the United States thirteen russians are indicted by the u. S. Special prosecutor investigating an alleged meddling in the twenty sixteen president ial election