Countries that will be seeking to find ways to intercept vessels at sea that may be defying u. N. Sanctions by carrying Refined Oil Products to pyongyang for it you have today this is the latest headlines from. Coming up next inside story. Is donald trump playing with fire by backing kurds in syria yes he is says turkey which feels threatened by a new army of thirty thousand mainly kurdish soldiers on the Turkish Border how much volatility will they add to the war zone this is inside story. I welcome to the program im jane u. S. Support for kurds in syria is leading to threats of retaliation from turkey the u. S. Led coalition plans to set up a thirty thousand strong force in syria just across the border with turkey take this president thinks the kurdish led force is a threat and is valid to attack the city of afrin in Northern Syria afrin is a major stronghold of y. P. Kurdish fighters taking considers the y. P. G a terrorist group linked to Kurdistan Workers Party or the p. K. K. Fighters waged a long war against turkish dominance but in a hundred ports. Turkish president today chip Tayyip Erdogan and using a party address to look staunch in the face of a u. S. Backed Kurdish Force on his southern border he promised to respond with a show of force saying to a key will launch its own military operation and the Northern Syrian city of buffeting not so still a lot of religion that just like we do not let the Kurdistan Workers Party or open their eyes within our borders we are determined to vanquish them on the other side of fall border god willing in the coming days we will continue the operation to purge our southern border from terror. Ticky has fought kurdish factions. Then its borders for more than thirty years and doesnt want to see they could gain power and neighboring syria the u. S. And the European Union say the p. K. K. Is a terror group but in Northern Syria the americans say theyre supporting Kurdish Forces not the p. K. K. Specifically the kurds are the most effective fighting force against the Islamic State in syria and theyve been very successful in that thats the american purpose but the turks regard the kurds and the why b. G. As a dire threat to u. S. President trump promised that he would stop being and training could fight is but the pentagon never made that official now tikki is furious about reports of a new u. S. Backed border force of thirty thousand personnel with the Syrian Democratic forces a group of largely controlled by the could ish y p g they will reportedly deploy along the border of turkey iraq to the southeast and the Euphrates River valley the dividing line with assads military how the american backed could just wipe e. G. Posted this online in december purporting to show clashes with Turkish Forces its enough rain in Northern Syria the same could. Be one now says he will launch a military operation in the coming days well get there are many kyler despite it all we believe we have common interests with america in the region and hope we can act in concert because the time has come to support turkey and the time to give strategical peroration is due. Afrin could be the taste for a difficult three way relationship between powers in the syrian war two key the United States and the kurdish fight is so hated by one side and supported by the other media mahommed al jazeera. And its bringing our guests joining us from washington d. C. Garonne Peoples DemocraticParty Representative to the United States of america a cheapie is a kurdish Opposition Group in turkey in istanbul mitten good jan a security analyst and former Turkey Military officer and from reza italy by skype is Joshua Landis directs the center for middle east studies at the university of oklahoma very warm welcome to all three of you let me start off with you Joshua Landis what do you make of this outright support now for the kurds in syria and the u. S. Backing this thirty thousand strong force. Well its its clearly a new departure for the United States the u. S. Went into syria saying that it was a very narrow policy to defeat isis today isis largely defeated yes there needs to be more policing but the United States has developed a policy which goes far beyond defeating isis today it is trying to roll back iran we can. Help its allies israel and saudi arabia and did nine. Capability to rebuild to keep it weak and divided this means supporting the kurds in the north and a larger un claims this is infuriated turkey an heir to want it is driving turkey towards russia and i believe its a dangerous policy for the United States because itll be very difficult and it will isolate the United States from iran turkey and eventually even iraq met im going to turn what do you think the u. S. Is up to here and how are you gauging take his response and the military response. And i mean just literally three hours ago president are done he made an a very very strong speech and this has been the most inflammatory speech that he made is so far so i. Think that to y. P. G. Forces take a affiliated forces is an imminent threat for the security of turkey and is very firm on this issue with this rhetorical present and has been trying to emphasize underline this fact and there maam i have to say that. When taking into account the military situation on the ground it is very hard its getting getting increasingly hard at the moment and wait no one taking into ankaras firm stance against by p. G. Thinking that i suggest that the armed confrontation in the north of syria between Turkish Military or Turkish Military backed Free Syrian Army forces and wipe the g. Forces is imminent at the scale of these armed confrontation is however is not debt or mind by ankara neither on current nor why p. J. But is going to be decided on the on two capitals first one is must go the second one is d. C. And the ones are the ones concerns about why p. G. D. Justified is it as much of a threat to turkey as a consensus it to be i have to say that. To an eighteen year two thousand and eighteen is going to be with a high probability is going to benediction years of course. I mean the strategic rationale behind the his inflammatory rhetoric first one is surely its recolors of the most important call consumption but the second point is also relevant i think turkey or anchor has been feel. A grave threat by being encircled by the terror belt or p. K. K. Belt stretching from the north of. Not then iraq starting from country in the region connecting syria to iraq we dosser to countenance in the west i mean in the east of your if its arm into syria and call bunny countenance and did this in canton in the west of europe his arm in the club and canton saw uncle right on his you feeling under very big pressure on how to first prevent him from prevented this terror belt or p. Take a belt from happening and have to counter all the things going on in the north of syria and get on can your view that kurdish fear of these moves by the u. S. Well the move by the u. S. Seemed to please the kurds in the region firstly because until now. That the alliance between the kurds and the us has been largely seen as transactional i mean and u. S. Officials have said that that relationship is a tactical relationship and is based on the defeat of isis but as we see now isis has largely been defeated in syria but this relationship is continuing the u. S. Says that this is to maintain stability in the region and i think the kurds are pleased by this that this relationship can move forward from not just defeating isis but maintaining and as the ability in the wider region but also may be further down the line turn into a political relationship rather than just merely. A military one against a joint enemy so i think the step taken by the u. S. Now with the Border Security force or further diplomatic relationships which seem to be also developing at the same time pleasing the kurds in syria specifically it because it makes an editor once said that tom had to choose between turkey and nato ally or the kurds the sort of move seems to suggest that camp and the u. S. Have made up their mind when it comes to this relationship. Yes i mean this is a clear message and president trying to increase its leverage in india post i said think there are three things to be done in syria at the moment first one is to tame. The second one is to balance irans increasing influence particularly in the north of syria and the target one is. First marginalize and then eliminate sell it to ration in north of syria saw this in for these three tasks i think what the u. S. Controlling the east of your if its and russia controlling the west of europe its. Been reliant on white p. G. A. As a coherent military force on the ground as an local proxy and pew id as a political actor to achieve this three object of so im going to has been seeing this and then uncle right now by pressuring by creating a sort of pressure on that the saturday Decision Making mechanisms in the d. C. Has been proposing this is grim or important a factor of nato the memberships and the Traditional Alliance between u. S. And turkey just it seems by this move and the fact that the u. S. Went ahead unilaterally that they have done nothing to apply the turks here can therefore to do that now well thats the big question thats the Million Dollar question the United States does seem to be giving up turkey there is no doubt about it by supporting kurdish nationalism in Northern Syria. This is alienating turkey its been driving turkey into the arms of russia as weve seen over the last few years turkey was hoping that that relationship u. S. Kurdish relationship would begin to reverse once isis was destroyed that is not the case the United States is building an argument for remaining in Northern Syria. Saudi arabia would like the United States remain there israel would like the United States to remain there to cut down assads government and to deny the Syrian Government oil water and Agricultural Land thats what chopping syria up into two and developing a long term relationship with the kurds in the north helping them get to develop greater independence will ultimately do itll keep syria very weak this is a way to night iran the fruits of its a victory in syria and also to bring russia down a notch so i think the United States is seeing this as a way to hurt its enemies russia anyone and to help its allies. Both israel and saudi arabia the trouble is is that turkey is Collateral Damage here the United States relationship with turkey is going from bad to worse and this dependence on the kurds is in a sense underlining now at the United States unfortunately i believe has looked at turkey as a last partner that its moving towards dictatorship greater islamists im less democracy is not something thats going to be reversed and that america cant reverse i think the United States the state department increasingly is writing off turkish interests mentioning that its going to stay that reflects. I mean and to some extent are you agree with. The point im im trying to emphasize is this green fact foreign turkey for almost two weeks we see a sort of strategy shift in the narrative well for u. S. Decision makers you know in particularly in the when theyre talking to they are directly with is in the east of unit if its you know a once and they were saying that the u. S. This is you make this medical Decision Makers they were saying that they are full cooperation with the y. P. Forces on the ground is very limited at the tactical level and only limited with the fight against isis but with this is a shift in strategy shift of this narrative of you know right now u. S. Decision makers are talking about creation of an a Standing Army for Border Protection you know the army of the north in Walking Around trees. You know combat proven soldiers what we are here talking about their emergence or a creation of an Standing Army i think with this subject shift of narrative. I will say bells in an anchor and this is the first point is the critical juncture that we have to. Remember the second issue i think in india right now is west of europe history see the advance of torso russia backed as a force us. Into a city center you know controlled by. Radical elements within h. T. S. So our anchor also has been a little bit it disturbed by this a recent development and this is some complaining about this advance this attack is to r. C. Deep walt. Create a sort of friction in the at any rate they are going all out here i mean russia turkey and iran. Wanted it i do want to talk about this way but i mean this is quite a military forces in the thirty thousand many countries dont have that do you think this will be that call of some sort of our military so if this is to go on. It may well be but i think i think the highlight here i think what we what we need to highlight is that the relationship between the u. S. And the kurds is going to continue and and this implies maybe not directly a nation building project by the u. S. But it definitely implies that theres going to be some sort of a consistent relationship in the short and medium term and i think another thing that we have to underline here is the turkish states the turkish nation state historic. This like towards kurdish aspirations in the region and as this relationship develops between the kurds and the u. S. And as this moves on from a nearly military relationship to a more diplomatic and political one which may well turn into a strategic strategic relationship that turkey states reactions going to be more aggressive and i think thats what this whole rhetoric is mostly about yes i understand the international conjuncture and how the International Relations are playing a huge part in this problem right now and i agree with joshua that and met him actually as well but this is going to be between moscow and d. C. But i think that there is a current that has to be highlighted here the turkish states historically actions towards any sort of kurdish aspirations in terms of both autonomy or independence its a severe aggression and this displeases that turkey the turkish state and i mean we saw this in iraq you kurdistan to the reflexes of the turkish state in iraq to kurdistan with similar yes they werent as aggressive but they too at the same time in iraq to kurdistan rule so against. The kurds of south Iraqi Kurdistan developing their nationalist aspirations and now with whats going on in north of the sea. With the u. S. Until recently was saying the relationship with the cause is transactional but right now off the vices i think the talk is that it is beginning to understand and well seasoned to be gullible in this sense the us is going to maintain a longer relationship with the kurds and i agree with joshua yes this is at the expense of turkey the that the us is slowly less concerned about losing turkey to russia which previously the state department and the u. S. Has always been worried about but i think that concern is much less now than what it used to be especially with the one at the helm this may change some point so he does care about going to change of attitude so that you raise that i mean the u. S. Was against the kurdistan the independence referendum and iraq and yet they seem to support this some that type of action if it ever were to get to that point in syria a real change in policy here isnt it it is it is and i think youre very right to bring up that comparison because many friends have been saying oh but theyll america will abandon the kurds in syria the way they have abandoned them in iraq now first of all i do not think the United States abandoned the kurds in iraq the referendum deal in which the baghdad government took share cook a disputed sit in america did not what some think that the United States had always told the kurds they couldnt have they could just take your books i dont think the United States abandoned the kurds in iraq but but that clearly the accusation has been made and this makes america more sensitive to abandoning the kurds in syria the big difference is that america does not like assad and sees damascus as an enemy americas ally israel and saudi arabia both want to weaken. By staying and helping the kurds in Northern Syria the United States is hurting its enemies and helping its friends the United States that are there as a friendly power and that they built the constitution the United States did help build a constitution and its going to defend it in iraq in syria the United States believes it can use the kurds to gain a leverage over on our side to fulfill the geneva process which the United States is trying to pursue a Peace Process that will allow the u. S. And its allies to gain important interests in damascus i dont believe it will succeed in this but i do believe the United States is committing itself in the medium and short term to the kurds of Northern Syria and this is a big change and let me translate it like a pretty dangerous game doesnt that. Threatening their former allies in a sense medicine way do you think this leaves damascus or do you think will say listen you know of all but cleaned up in syria its nearly a victory for me im prepared to let this go. Im inclined to buy this argument of the u. S. Has been is now less concerned about ankaras interest and preordered prioritization in syria i am inclined to buy that argument the point im trying to emphasize is an important how can i say getting increasingly visible dynamic instrumentalists zation of the y. P. G. As a coherent little of force on the ground and q i did as the political actors in the rivalry between russia and the yes in in in in the post isis setting in syria so turkey has been or ankara has been trying to accommodate this to a system level actors they are. Diverging interests which is getting harder and harder. You know passing months for again twenty thousand i think it will be eighteen will be an indecisive year we will see whether turkey is going to accommodate this interest of two system level actors you know one controlling us controlling the east of europe its russia controlling to rest of europe it and there right now also another important dynamic at the end of january we have sochi you know meeting and if this will be any very very important meeting for turkey and the promotion of turkeys agenda in and in sochi we will see a major run or moscow will be happy with that or not so as i said before the instrumentalists action of y p g between in the right will be rebuilt when russia and us in the future of syria i thing is an important dynamic that again is very. Very digesting here and if it is on the other lists a lot of talent just one another will play this now because it could possibly be seen that curts are one of the few when its from the syrian war now. Well i mean the kurds up until now have actually balance a Good Relationship with both the u. S. And russia and one must accept theres not or not many forces on the ground in the region that have been able to do this and yes the kurds since the outbreak of the conflict in syria have had relationships with both sides are currently still mintage maintaining the relationship with russia to the west of the euphrates and with the u. S. To the east of the euphrates now what will happen if arab on does actually follow through with his fruits and attack after him we know that the only way that could possibly happen is if russia allows. The turkish army to actually enter the city where opens up its airspace. To the turkish army and so i think if that does happen then theres going to be a difficult discussion between the kurds and russia then and both russia and the us understand the importance of having healthy relationship with the kurds in syria and leave it there are people who had an affinity for that in syria many moving parts to the story thanks for discussing it with us very much get on ours can make it in go to john and Joshua Landis and thank you to you for watching you can see the program again any time by visiting our website aljazeera dot com for further discussion get our Facebook Page at facebook dot com ford slash a. J. Inside story you can also join the conversation on twitter handle is at a. J. Inside story from the jane data and the whole team here about an hour. I am doing this for the benefit of people. So bad they see the importance of guys. Who witness documentaries that open your eyes. At this time on aljazeera. 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Hello again on Martine Dennis in doha these are the top stories turkey syria and russia have criticized the u. S. Plan to form a thirty thousand strong Border Security force in Northern Syria the turkish president accuse washington of trying to create