A week of demonstrations in the occupied palestinian territories Israeli Forces fired tear gas and stun grenades at protesters who pelted stone bethlehem dozens of palestinians have been injured in confrontations with Israeli Forces says last week those were the headlines about with more news in thirty minutes next on aljazeera its the street do stay with us. Facing reality if a piece of machinery goes wrong is there a train of litigation through which we can bring a legal system to getting to the heart of the matter i dont think we need to the fact that some of my previous users hear their story on talk to aljazeera at this time. Ok and i really could be here in the stream this week a five person panel is set to decide the future of Internet Usage in the u. S. But could it change the World Wide Web as we know it find out what some people say yes. Here in the United States the federal Communications Commission will vote thursday a whether or not to roll back regulations but acting Net NeutralityNet Neutrality its a hot button term but what does it mean well its the principle that Internet Service providers or i are species grant access to web content regardless of the source and without favor most everyone agrees that Net Neutrality is a good thing but not everyone agrees with the best way to maintain it the vote in all likelihood will be a three to two split in favor of rolling back regulations while critics of those regulations will no doubt a pull of the vote advocates fear that it will end the internet as we know it joining us to talk about all of this. Is an x. Counselor to f. C. C. Chairman tom. The head of the f. C. C. He oversaw the organization about the administration also in our studio tom struble hes the Technology Policy manager at all Street Institute thats a washington think tank and joining via skype in oakland california. Whos the founder and executive director of the center for media justice its good to have you here everybody welcome everybody and we start off with with the video we could say this video is the worst Case Scenario for a battle for the net its this is their version of what might happen if Net Neutrality goes away. Well version of let each other see what might happen if the end is nigh or that one persons version heres another persons worst Case Scenario this is ryan on twitter he says a. J. Scream great to hear youre covering this get the word out so you wont have to change your name to the dribble that neutrality is the. Laughing there before our audience that made him understand what he means by that and why thats a bad thing you explain for us let me explain what the f. C. C. Is planning to do on thursday its going to do three things first of all its going to deregulate Broadband Internet access the on ramps to the internet so the f. C. C. Is basically abdicating its role in protecting consumers and competition when it comes to broadband thats number one number two is a limited in the rules that prohibit i. S. P. Is from blocking content from throttling content and from putting in place fast lane so in other words having online Service Providers pay for faster and Better Service which not necessarily means that there will be others in the slowly ok the third thing its doing is its preemptive gets prohibiting the states and the United States from adopting their own laws to protect consumers so not only is the f. C. C. Saying sorry were not going to protect you but the states cant protect you either. Mckay have you seen this yet blocking throttling fast and slow lanes if we go back to before the about f. C. C. Changes whether any of those things actually happening that you saw what we know or you know for a fact that contrast was found to be you know. Found that it was blocking peer to peer technologies that his customers were using over the network you know that the rise in blocked a tweet or excuse me some content from planned parenthood we know these incidents have taken place we know this is new so when people say you know hey this isnt going to happen its never happened before the fact is its just a straight up. Top. So the internets a big place with billions of users of course there are going to be problems and growing pains along the way but i think theres a lot more good than bad the internet has been overwhelmingly positive thing for all of society and we should regulate it in some way to protect consumers and entrepreneurs Online Companies from the biggest and the worst of the harms but there are different ways to go about doing that and i mean i think g. G. Is pretty spot on your characterization of what the f. C. C. Is doing i wouldnt say theyre advocating their entire role because theyre still requiring transparency and they are proposing to Work Together with the f. T. C. But theyre advocating their primary role as the protector of the internet and then also theyre not preempting all state regulations either but only state regulations that conflict with the f. C. C. Is policy so its conflict preemption rather than field preemption deep into legal you know selling it tom. What do you really want to. Thank you for giving me the option why you will be the problem in the future. So here is one thing the. Hash tag neutrality share it on twitter and. He says the problem is we have no idea what will happen Net Neutrality is a protection against a mere riyad a bad scenario if he goes on to say the open internet has changed the world in so many ways theres never been anything like it in terms of globally democratizing information communication there are so many reasons to preserve that neutrality but the only reason to kill it is to increase Internet Service provider profit what youre doing and what would you say to that i say thats not the only reason to do away with it and challenge the premise that we were getting rid of it you know were switching from approaching a trial date based on prescriptive rules to approach an n. F. L. These based on ex post flexible standards case by case if youre cation lawyer talking ok so if that arent lawyers so then the only thing you can it is to increase profits whats wrong with that statement so i dont mean necessarily think i see profits are going to go up i think were going to see more broadband competition Going Forward and. While you might see profits go up in the short term over the long term this should be good for broadband competition will actually drive down prices for consumers and also the benefit so ive never seen my. Bill for my Internet Service play in such never gone down in fact every year i ring up and. Negotiate and i cut in here because thats because there is no competition for broadband in right access the United States so i love being down by ive never heard of you as your political tone so i dont have an absolute maybe that wasnt happening but in relative terms terms of what youre getting for the money youre getting faster speeds all the time youre getting more Access Services through your pipe so the value in terms of what youre getting for your pain could actually be going up and also even if youre getting the same amount of value even prices are going up they may not go up as fast as otherwise would be would you mind if i just laid down some numbers here so this is actually own numbers fifty eight percent of census blocks in this country have a choice of either zero or one Broadband Internet access provider eighty seven percent of aid in the definition of what broadband is that the f. C. C. Takes right now ok eighty seven percent of the country has a choice of two or fewer and by the way when you measure by census blocks when the way the f. C. C. Measures is if one person in the census block has Internet Access that means everybody does so the fact of the matter is is that even feel you were americans have access to two k. So the vast majority of americans have fewer than two choices and thats why your prices stay high i dont see any reason by eliminating f. C. C. As oversight and giving it to the f. T. C. Which has far fewer powers ok the f. T. C. Has four fewer legal and powers and Technical Expertise to deal with this issue i dont know you can write a lot. Commission a trade commissions or the trade commission has less expertise saying and chevys me if you hear this is from del a he says Net Neutrality is an issue that affects americans regardless of Party Affiliations and partys interest but it does feel like this is very much a political conversation why. You know our listeners the political conversation let me say this im a start by saying that neutrality enjoys bipartisan support this is not a democrat issue an issue of republicans this is an issue of fundamental communications right. Seven hundred protests right seven million comments evidence of like a record level participation whos making this a political issue making this a political football is trumps f. C. C. Right f. C. C. Chairman. Has turned this into a sideshow with we havent bought that are participating in the Comment Period we have you know fifty you know fifty million comments that are of come from republicans be from russian you know email addresses this is not a a debate that should be treated like a political football we understand that you would not put the First Amendment out on the stock market but if you have to protest and these rules do that and so making this a kind of a political football thats getting tossed back and for between you know republicans and democrats thats just not the reality the reality is the vast majority of americans support Net Neutrality the reality is that we need in order to prosper the reality is that we need for democracy thats the bottom line and so what this actually means for people in their everyday lives is one of the main things that people online at least are tweeting to us that they dont really understand about this conversation because they dont know how it affects them so here are two examples from people and these are their perspectives this is johnny on twitter who says people of color the l. G. B. T. Community Indigenous Peoples religious minorities rely on the open internet to organize access Economic Educational opportunities and fight back against systemic discrimination so organizing on the one hand on the other is medical purposes this is a video comment we got from a doctor in washington d. C. This is what she said. Africanamericans are two to four times more likely to suffer from complications from diabetes and two to four times more likely to die from it but tell medicine and mobile health apps allow providers who are mostly monitor blood glucose levels manage diabetes and educate diabetes patients all while reducing the need for outpatient visits and reducing overall medical costs its important to note that nowadays even finding a Health Care Provider and bookie medical plan is is something that weve been pushed to do online everyone deserves the opportunity have good health and that requires access to Health Care Innovation this means Everyone Needs to have consistent and reliable Internet Access so were pulling the two thousand and fifteen Net Neutrality regulations will not only exacerbate already existing Health Disparities but also continue to nurture a preferred a Health Care System that favors the haves at the expense of the have nots so what are your thoughts on. Well let me say this you know i spend my time protesting against Police Brutality i spend my time organizing around a number of issues in my community and we use the internet on a daily basis to connect with folks in different parts of the country on these issues let me say this that without the open internet black labs matter the the the movement and the message could not have reached millions of people right we would not know about many of these cases of Police Violence if not for the fact that i am not black any of that content they cant slow it down we dont have to depend on c. N. N. Or or anyone really we can depend on a gesture be about to be able to move move a message the fact is that you know for me personally my wife a stage or. Cancer and you know on a pretty much nightly basis your client me sitting on the couch with the light you know a small light on me with me searching the internet for alternative cures and our target of treatments and all kinds of things to manage and navigate this illness and i dont want and i espied to be able to slow down much i dont want and i ask you to be able to direct me to a preferred site that they want me to visit where there might be some profit gained or some back and deal made i need to be able to choose as the user as the person whose life depends on that and to that information i need to be able to choose so this for me this is about two things and i think for most people as mark so eloquently says this is about whether you and i control the internet experience that has been the experience of the internet since its inception ok if you repeal Net Neutrality and again this is a radical decision because never before has an f. C. C. Chairman either republican or democrat said we dont want to have any. Role overseeing consumers and competition when it comes to Broadband Internet access ok this is about whether comcast t. V. Or rise in your i. S. P. Will control that experience for you will decide winners and losers much like Cable Television thats number one the number two effect in this is really important i worked at the f. C. C. For three years people come to the f. C. C. For protection against any consumer and any competitive practices of Internet Service providers practices from Cable Companies this decision will give consumers pretty much nowhere to go if for example comcast one day decides to double its prices theres nothing the federal trade commission can do about that so the f. C. C. Is known by the public as the place to go to get relief when theyre i. S. P. When their Cable Company engages in practices that they believe to be any consumer so i would jump in and push back a little bit on that because i think if congress were to double its prices overnight that would be an exercise of market power which the f. T. C. Under its antitrust authorities on from competition could bring enforcement action on a little bit let me show you something here and i will get back to look at this headline here the Net Neutrality page the same day. The f. C. C. Announced repeal the same day and then you will and then youre going to say language that everybody who has Internet Access in the last can actually understand it so yeah they deleted one player general place with another pledge where the really only substantive change between the two pledges is they change their promise to not engage in a paper that is ation to not engage in any harmful prioritization which is a big change basically switching from the f. C. C. To the f. T. C. Is a more permissive Regulatory Environment for prioritization some of that could be things like telemedicine thats a common example people forward but a more mundane example would just be you know prioritize gay mean or video traffic which appear to be particularly useful in the context of broadband competition because as you point out a lot of people dont have access to high Speed Broadband but almost every american has access to two providers because we hadnt come but telco incumbent cable operator in every city now the telcos have an upgrade that works with fiber might be able to offer speeds that match the cable guys but if the telco could offer a prioritized Gaming Service and say pair their limited bandwidth with a satellite based delivery mechanism mechanism for video. Ok let me just say let me show you what this this this and you can tell me if if you feel that this is useful for us here tom wrote a piece to me is. I dont freak out about the f. C. C. Approach to Net Neutrality are you freaking out. Yeah because this is not an approach to Net Neutrality this is approach to monopoly and this is a pro in approach to infringing upon the basic communication rights of americans across the country this is not about this is not a fight between two sides who both think Net Neutrality is great and but disagree on how to make it happen one side the side that is the. The side that is adjective the side that has donald trump that side wants to actually see. Greater control over the internet not by you and me but by i s. P. s and authoritarian governments and this is not just in this country you know this is a global battle right now around who will control the internet will it be every day people like myself like you like the people sitting at home watching this show or will it be Big Companies thats the issue at hand here its not about you know two sides that both want Net Neutrality they dont want the neutrality they want inequality they want to profit from discrimination theyve been profiting from discrimination before we had these rules theyll continue to profit from discrimination of these rules are repealed period so let me bring in this other perspective this is josh and he is a former stream gas he was actually an eyelash about the f. C. C. Just says im not sure it matters which way we go with that neutrality because im optimistic that regardless of legislation technology intrapreneur ship will bring us faster cheaper more open internet another person and tom ill direct this to you jared replied to his tweet and said i appreciate those thoughts the fear mongering on the left is hard to completely believe and if it does get really bad the law on the policy can just change it seems like a worthwhile experiment to try another way is that how youre viewing this that if its really that bad it can change yeah i do agree with those sentiments probably speaking because transfer in oversight of broadband providers to the federal. Trade commission they have both their antitrust authority you know unfair methods of competition and also Consumer Protection authority no unfair deceptive acts or practices so if an honest peer is doing something thats unfair either to other broader writers to consumers to edge writers the f. T. C. You can bring a case all they have to do is show that there is consumer harm either actual or likely consumer harm like the f. C. C. We have this you know notion of the Virtuous Cycle and that broadband providers will interfere with that and so we need to regulate them to prevent that that theory is a theory of likely harm to consumers anyone who supports Virtuous Cycle can take that to be able to see and say hey heres some evidence of a likely harm bring it bring a case let me explain why the federal trial automation is only just. Let me to trade commission is not adequate and in fact if you go back just one week Terrell Mcsweeney whos an f. T. C. Commissioner said in an op ed that her own agency does not have the proper tools to protect the public when it comes to any competitive end consumer actions by broadband providers i think thats really important this is a sitting commissioner the f. T. C. Does not make rules ok tom could talk of her all day long you can talk all day long about what you think any trust law can and cannot do in addition to any trust cases being long and expensive you cannot say with certainty unless youre a judge that it would prevent blocking it would prevent throttling it would prevent fast lanes to twenty fifteen rules prevent all those things we have walls that work why do we want to give them to another agency who lacks expertise and Strong Authority yes the campaign either for or against Net Neutrality a little tweaks to it its been really feel so over the last couple of months let me show you some of the celebrity endorsements and pushback theyve been happening not ruffle oh take away net in china tease the authoritarian dream and we just have a look see. What she has been saying let me challenge the mainstream can change the internet if we include less americans not more shouting in all caps and lissom a lot has been very busy lately time though to tweet funny thing happened yesterday agit pio f. C. C. Attacked me for using my voice to speak out against his plan to kill Net Neutrality but what has. The head of f. C. C. Got to say this is what he told fox news on monday have a listen the hysteria has reached a pitch which is completely disproportionate to the facts and as i say we were living in a broken internet in twenty fifteen all of these harms of these celebrities and what not or a talking about our hypothetical would theres no market failure here Service Providers are not and have not blocked content willy nilly and were confident Going Forward given the robust rules that we in the federal trade commission has the one which is Going Forward is that we know Facebook Google and we did ask to be part of this conversation he declined busy right now melitta so this is a perspective that of course this conversation is happening in the u. S. But because were a global t. V. Show this is what were getting from abroad this is nigel who says sitting here in zimbabwe this show reiterate just how important access to information has become in this digital age which flows into this question we just got on you tube says how does this affect the rest of the world do u. S. Laws and regulations stop at their borders g. G. Does the us the world should they be paying attention the rest of the world is paying attention and we have served in the past as a model for the rest of the world and thats one of the reasons that this decision to eliminate Net Neutrality and Consumer Protections gives me so much pause i will say however that india has rejected what were doing and im delighted in fact theyve adopted rules that are Even Stronger than what we adopted in two thousand and fifteen so i say to the rest of the world follow india dont follow us. Did you what are you expecting to happen. Or what are you expecting to happen. Well i expect when you say what i expected to have been mean during the vote of the what do you think the vote might be. Do you feel i mean its like your campaigning that that you know what the result will be. You know well my hope is that over the next day or so that there will be so much resistance to this set of to this policy you know the set of rules that agitprop is putting forward that hell wake up you know that he will wake up here the wakeup call and rescind the order delay the vote i mean hopefully he will begin to cooperate with the new york you know Attorneys Office to be able to investigate all of the fraud that weve seen in the in the comment process some some way in some way my hope was that the f. C. C. Will actually collaborate and cooperate with the American People instead of undermining the democracy we depend on however what is most likely to happen is that they will pass they will rescind the the the two thousand and fifteen order and we will take them to court lucky and tom and teach and thank you so much what mchale was referring to a little bit earlier was this Public Consultation process where some of the names are being put forward a foreign and name so that even the Public Consultation process has been not necessarily that accurate attal. This is the last we dont have to say that who says this will definitely have an impact the global influence of the u. S. And american Online Companies means that repealing that neutrality within the countrys borders would pose an existential threat to the tragedy around the world of course perhaps except for india. Thank you so much to i guess thank you for joining us online as well and on t. V. 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Just pulls all the