And the republic of ireland. There have been widespread protests in our jurors over delayed Election Results with opposition challengers salvador nasrallah saying theyve been manipulated he was leading after the vote on november the twenty six but the latest count has present one hundred one and theres it delete that Series Finale back in thirty minutes next its the stream. Facing the reality if a piece of machinery goes wrong is there a train of all of this took a ship true which we can bring a legal system to bear getting to the heart of the matter i dont think we need of the boat but some of my producers just to hear their story on talk to how does iraq at this time. Ok and your industry live on our air and today we bring you. A milliken by popular demand from our Online Community we explore alleged slavery in libya and stories about exploitation and abuse of refugees and migrants. Away. From one another. With no one. Let us know what. Its like to not dislike you know sometimes. It doesnt like to. Sit secret wish that you dont go to substance. Libya is a gateway for many africans hoping to escape hardship at home but for thousands the danger traveling through a nation in political term or can be just as perilous and their poor you just saw has once again put the refugee crisis in the spotlight the un backed government in tripoli has condemned the trafficking of migrants and both the e. U. And African Union say they help evacuate people stuck in libya but some human Rights Groups accuse them of failing to provide legal pathways to safety this story sparked a huge reaction online with people using hash tag libyans against slavery to express solidarity with their fellow africans and to dispel what they found were myth about racism in libya so what can be done to be a slave trade and prevent the continue to produce a people hoping to find safe haven in europe here with us to talk about this Leonard Doyle spokesman for the u. N. Affiliated International Organization for migration he joins us from Geneva Switzerland in hamburg germany more mccauley is founder of the refugee of Radio Network he also lived in libya and that was before the for the long time leader Moammar Gadhafi in tunis tunisia has some raja is an independent journalist and in new york imad body is a social activist normally based in tripoli for what he could see this headline here from aljazeera slavery is an outrageous reality of the u. N. Human rights organizations all saying that this picture here is incredibly disturbing this is what you do every day larry whats the reality who reality doesnt do. You talking to. Larry and let it lie you do with the refugees once they get to europe let you know whats happening back on the african continent lets start with you. Well we received them traumatic when they disembarked from those rescue ships. The harrowing stories the horrors of rape slavery i heard about the slavery in about twenty twelve friend of mine called me from tripoli and said he was kidnapped and ransom went. From nigeria to those who kidnapped him but as time went home. We saw reports on you too. Ross came from england did a report went to china steve in nigeria also. And so i did a report earlier this year about the trafficking of women from nigeria to. Experience in libya so i. Received the news about the trauma victims forever but they are very strong people determined to move. That out just what i just want to show people a picture of where people are coming from how theyre going for a peer and were seeing in three Major Regions across the african continent where theyre actually going from the far west across to the far east all heading north and that journey takes them from libya very often what has happened in the last few years that has made that journey even more perilous and for there to be even more cases of slavery. I think whats happened is that libya. Is ungoverned states in all you know in effect and there are its a small population its five Million People the same number of people come from the small island that i come from from ireland but its a huge country the size of france bigger. So whats happened is that the economy has become a migrant economy people are essentially exploiting the migrants as they come through full of hope that theyre going to come to someone realize dreams in europe but the minute they step off the bus or more to the point of drugs or truck their dream turns into a nightmare and so long before they reach the ocean those youre showing here these people are put through the mills in ways which i think we only do and the horrors of we only get a little glimpse of it and its truly shocking and what weve learned in the past couple weeks is that its absolutely unacceptable in the modern world that this should be happening and now a few more people have have gotten a glimpse at it as you mentioned there and i think thats whats causing reactions like this this is back on twitter she says its absolutely appalling that this is still happening in these quote unquote modern times another person writes and this is helen and she says this is in comprehensible in the twenty First Century where does the demand side of these markets quote unquote these open air slavery markets as some are calling them where does the didnt come from husain can you give us a few more details on what this actually looks like when it comes to human smuggling and then payment for those same people. Well i mean in terms of in terms of the demand its a very its a very good question i mean theres a lot of that in my interviews with smugglers with people who are working in that trade my understanding is that in some cases the the banning of these migrants is actually amongst smugglers and traffickers so its not necessarily. In all cases its not necessarily in most cases its not necessarily youre buying a slave to use him as a slave its more i need him to sell him off to another smuggler who can then you know exploit that person either for ransom or either to pushing him to pay for the rest of the journey that this migrant is trying to accomplish in my job by staying in libya normally what do you know about this idea of i have a slave trading slave marketing what happens to refugees when theyre trying to get food what do you see with your own eyes. Well building on what has been actually mentioned believe that theres usually two ways through which the migrants actually are smuggled theyre either transported from their home country to the shore which is quite an expensive journey in the small fraction of the migrants going to forward this type of journey because its very expensive on the other hand you have migrants that use a like the leg approach so they stop at certain points to afford the journey from one point to another and they either get money sent from their relatives back home or they work in the point where they stop that and i believe that again they sometimes are sold from one smuggler one trafficker to another and thats where this whole slavery issue comes that let me just bring in abdurahman Alpha Tony Abbott i mean has been walking on the ground in libya trying to walk. Refugees who are in Detention Centers hes trying to walk with people who are in communities. Heading across the sea to want. Abdurrahman can you tell us what its like when you see people in the Detention Centers what are you seeing what kind of life are they having. Of course its a pretty. Major and just like. It was of those guys. Might believe something. Which is in the simpsons. That if. I dont like it and can be a decent and good about. My kids. And see how i was you see. A lot of people talk taking advantage of like that back in. Just make them. Work. Like that stuff that comes expand like. That he is. What im saying is that most of the things where you know. Its just like something thats already action. Will. Be wasted in. Schools. Just the purpose of it its as if you listen you know we have. Thousands. On the other side we have leaves on that. And. So the government. Is really like. That. So. It. Might. Have to thank you so much for joining us explaining that the debt is the issue that youre dealing with. Lets talk about solutions well there are lots of people weighing in on this is just one person billy some on twitter says short term the u. N. H. C. R. Should act on the matter to at least handle those who are in libya and heading to libya long term resolve the discontent back home to cut down on the refugee crisis and the u. N. Must deal with the african dictators properly on the matter rather than dancing with them so lots of ideas there but leonard i want to go to you because of course the i. O. M. Is working on a solution to this if you can call it that whats going on. It looks solution thats happening right now and its not a solution long term its a short Term Solution is to get as many of those people that we just heard of who are in detention at the moment and get them home i mean just get them home get an air bridge going and fly out at least fifteen thousand people in the next couple of weeks we at the u. N. Migration agents have taken out fourteen thousand so far this year people who said that theyve want to go home because this is whats happening theyre being tricked into coming to libya they think theyre getting on a on the bus to europe but theyre not theyre getting into into a murder machine frankly and by the time we reach them they are desperate to go home colleagues of mine were in Detention Center last week there were a thousand people crammed in a small place saying take us home and thats what were doing and were doing it at the request of the African Union with the Financial Support of the European Union and the urging of the u. N. Inspector general and indeed of the Security Council so this is very much lets get these guys to safety and there are many many women there are unaccompanied minors there are a lot of people in a very vulnerable position and i would just like to change the conversation direction slightly because it is true those horrible things happening there in libya but why do people go there in so many numbers and it is because they hear and read about europe on social media they see it on facebook. Free free basics they see they can click and get to a smuggler and one press of a button and we need the social Media Companies to step it up a little bit and play their role in explaining that its not a free ride that youre not going to get a free trip to it afresh job in europe quite the contrary there is too many people losing a fortune losing their lives wasting their lives and being terribly exploited when it is interesting you say that because we got this free from sin you see and larry ill give this to you since he says despite everything i see still some people are making the same journey then and others are still planning why would someone want to risk being a flayed and with that its completely irrational this is one persons view of course but others might say the conditions at home might make that worth it larry what are you hearing from people. Well people are coming because of lack of opportunity home countries so this is the failure of our my own leaders back to africa but on the other hand the promise is in europe has also helped to make this people move towards you. The case of libya my own so i dont want to blame but this really dig deep to choose the path that they are at the moment they want to this week so thats what they get the issue of racism and all those things thats been dead believe. You know the town of county there was. Eradicated after the fall of so lets leave that aside what are the Solutions Solution from i dont respect even my own opinion is that ever creation of our people. Must take place at the very fast pace it travel ban should be placed on libya africans should not go to libya anymore its not viable its not logical its not sensitive and we need to walk an educational process in africa a lot of young people lack education they dont know the dangers of migration so we need to go back to thats right walk with them in schools in in Primary School thats really local centers and Community Centers you know not to relocate to for them to move in wards because theres a lot of opportunities also the scenario that youre speaking of imagine since i no it has to go ahead joining find that quite ironic to be honest that the blame is put on the travel mention the i mean people say a travel ban should be put on libya which might be the case but if you look at it from a policy perspective and shift your perspective away from the libyan environment a bit the and the International Community also contributed to this in february a memorandum of understanding it was signed italy that actually returned and intercept migrants and the Italian Coast Guard and italian the Italian Government is basically making the libyan coast guard do its dirty work because legally this is highly if they are not allowed to just follow now you know i mean this is these are limited if you have people who are policy issues you have peace and policy issues i agree with you europe has done that italys find those kinds of agreements i think the monopoly has. Yet not only that its left with is im not im not and im not in the political divide of europe thats right im im a straightforward person you know the key rule what exactly the mound migration yeah and i might use that but solutions is what we are lucky and the solution is in trouble back when i mean it trying to back trouble back you. African countries african you traveling to europe because it is also an african country and we just remind everybody that we did. Not because i want to learn what it used to be larry let me have it so let me share with this of you and in fact i want to share this with her son as and this is from William William says this is a very sad story and i think the people doing this already know this is inhuman inhumane i think the a u the African Union should quickly intervene with force and then this for me a coup security action should be taken the perpetrators should be brought to book has and what do you make of that the idea of going in in force to stop. Modern slavery is not even possible after that and i dont think it is i dont think it is possible at all i think i think it would just make the libyan crisis in itself worse which is. Which is at the heart of why the migration crisis has has gotten so bad and why were seeing modern day slavery i think in all of these ideas of you know lets just shut down the borders and so on that the great idea is lovely but youre talking about thousands and thousands of kilometers of unguarded borders youre talking about a coast guard which is complicit to the to the trade how how are you going to do that how is. Again like i know its a silly comparison but we look at you know one on comparisons that libyan. Libyan authorities keep giving to me is the fact that you know the United States is still unable to completely got their border with with with mexico if people are going to continue coming i dont really see a solution when you can stop that you can definitely you know work and trying to make conditions that are imposing you know if were going to look at policy changes and so on and enforcing sanctions on the specific people in libya who are allowing the situation to be this bad you know when we look at the when we look at the. Tensions at this for example its a we we need to look not just at the. Black market a little frayed side of things but also what were seeing in face value you know the. Detention centers are very bad and there are signs of slavery there as well i remember in two thousand and fourteen when id like to ask and id like to ask you go ahead and look at one drama. If i could just ask a question is it a good idea do you think its a good idea for an uncontrolled flow of people human beings to go into europe where the where theyre turning the politics of europe to the extreme right. And they are only destined to work underground or be returned home thats the first question and the second. Part is how did the first question was i want someone to answer it who did you want to go to you know it is right well and i have another colleagues i just want to know if you like because a lot of the cattle say blame europe for stopping people coming but is it a good idea we had you know we had the question as you say running out of time larry go ahead pick up ease right but the police. I believe we spend it in from the Human Trafficking itself what the people believe. There are people would why rest in. Well those people promote good folks does that doesnt want not what you want is to stop you and that can work is just another way and i just happen very quickly to respond to that i mean well when you say you know who who are arrest who are blamed yeah we all took. A lot of the trade its not just i mean not to depend libyans but a lot of it is not just libya but also when you look at the communities in libya for example in south libya youre talking about extremely poor communities who pretty much dont have you know the the chances that these african nations are escaping from themselves you know this is a trade that they have found that can give them a bit of money allow them to say nice guys your toes you know another thing i dont know how to be strong for centuries because you have a link on the agenda may i just interject here i want to go back to the community i want to share a couple of facts and figures with our audience slavery in the middle east and north africa over to a Million People enslaved and then looking and slavery in Subsaharan Africa more than six Million People enslaved and across the entire world were talking more like forty five Million People enslaved this is not an issue just about libya. So i want to bring the three hundred ninety epically up really on a point that you made earlier in my. Not a yes as i spent about picking my grand and slave auction for ransom exists in Detention Centers thats a serious issue and it shouldnt be taken as a surprise but as a measuring stick on how the situation in libya has become e. U. And african nations are also to be blamed for these outcomes but someone else picking up on one of those points was hard sighs unfortunately there is no rule of law across much of libya so the world must act including the International Communitys emad what do you make of that talking about the political situation in libya and the landscape where theres this fractured there is no there is no denying that the political situation in libya is a mess basically and there is no rule of law and if you look at it from a totally pragmatic point of view slavery was abolished by legal reform so from a again a totally realistic point of view if the country itself does not have a rule of law and if my greater reflow i are disrupted in a way where migrants are returned to libya when there intercepted at sea slavery could reemerge given the economic problems that libya is going through us has and youre talking about people that do not have a source of income and i consider this a trade so for them slavery is an economic option its not because theyre necessarily evil it is because this is what they see. It is of course from their perspective a sound from their first you know i mean that in the process. You know who phenomenon it is. That from their perspective it is an economic alternative if there are Better Options they would not be engaged in this and if african migrants had better conditions own if from south africa they would stay there gentleman im just going to go back to Abdul Rahman Abdul rahman hes working with people who are in Detention Centers in horrific conditions right now abdul rahman im going to also just to sum it up in a simple sentences. Camera right at the end of this program what difference does conversations like this have on the detainees who are in libya right now the refugees the migrants who got caught up on all stock what difference does this conversation half for their lives. Or mine the mine. When those markets. They are in new york. A from there like forms which is why its the nature of what ever. Outside of the news and up to around when im going to ask you right briefing just for a yes or no answer at the end of the show does conversations like this are they helpful of course not. Since in its current right thank you so much for being part of this conversation as a lhari and abdurahman and and imagine the conversation continues or is online or how soon we can find a ways that will help the detainees in libya and the slave people around the world see you online take everybody. The new era in television news. And those in space its a toss to do things in secret that are on the list we had actual victims who had survived torture detention and saying this was the cause of my arrest if you could. Just stay with what we do is still like this conviction that everyone has a deep reservoir of time is going to have if you give them the opportunity and wonderful things start to look at the actual distance theres at least twenty thousand for him to refugees will if we badly need at this moment leadership and so this is interesting about that as well as i totaled trump is going to be the next president we tell you should rethink how they got. Back she finally canisters of gas i just want to believe that west to prevent the media getting anywhere just get recorded. He achieved something that never happened before. If you were in beijing looking out the Pacific Ocean youd see American Warships when myth was that somehow time as aiming to replace america and going to run the world well the chinese are not that stupid these guys want to dominate a huge chunk of the planet this sounds like a preparation for our first president George Washington said if you want peace prepare for war the coming war on china at this time on a just see at. The u. N. And u. S. Appeals for calm in yemen with more open eyed saudi let