Fifty thousand people have made the journey this year russia has blocked the un from extending an investigation into one of syrias deadliest Chemical Attacks at least eighty three people including children were killed in a suspected chemical attack on the rebel held town of qana in northwestern syria and those are the headlines more details on the website al jazeera dot com coming up next its inside story life at. Pakistan gets a warning from the u. S. Do more to stop aiding groups secretary of state Rex Tillerson is on his first visit to islamabad at a time when the u. S. Is considering giving india a greater role in the war in afghanistan can washington a. N. H. Pakistan one of the risks this is inside story. Welcome to the program im Jane Dutton Ricks to listens a visit to islamabad on tuesday was as much about pakistans neighbors as us pakistan relations in particular the usa free of state once the pakistani leadership to stop taliban fighters launching attacks in afghanistan from their side of the border at the same time pakistans Prime Minister its a kind of boss is trying to dissuade the u. S. From inviting india to play a bigger role in afghanistan will get i guess in a moment but first natasha good name has this report pakistan has been basking in Rare International praise after it rescued a canadian American Family earlier this month this is proof enough to me that. The pakistanis are doing everything in their utmost. Prisoner in the family spent five years as hostages of the taliban linked network the United States gave pakistan and ultimatum if they didnt act on urgent intelligence it would send in their own troops to bring the hostages home the pakistani governments cooperation is a sign that it is honoring americas wish that to do more to provide. Security in the region the u. S. And pakistan are longtime allies but their relationship has been strained the u. S. Says pakistan is creating safe havens for the taliban which is in the midst of a renewed campaign in afghanistan and pakistan denies that and says when the u. S. Has provided intelligence its acted u. S. And pakistan they have agreed to that it made engage in the future for the typical operation and lead to understanding of each of this concerns. Us secretary of state Rex Tillerson is on his First Official visit to south asia on the agenda meetings with the pakistani Prime Minister show he khan abbassi and indian Prime Minister narendra modi. The Trump Administration hopes to expand its ties with india seeing it as a stabilizing force in a volatile region president tromping Prime Minister modi are committed more than any other leaders before them to building an Ambitious Partnership the benefits not only are too great democracies but other sovereign nations working toward Greater Peace and stability a deepening of american an indian ties is a sensitive topic for pakistan india and pakistan are locked in a decades long stalemate over the disputed region of kashmir the us is stressing both countries are crucial partners but u. S. President donald trump is seizing the momentum of recent cooperation by urging pakistan to help release other hostages and join in future Counterterrorism Operations natasha going to aim aljazeera. Lets bring in our guest joining us from islamabad. Former pakistan ambassador to afghanistan in kabul him political analyst and a specialist on Regional Security and in washington d. C. Larry korb senior fellow at the center for American Progress so interesting dynamics at play at the moment gentlemen so good to have you on the show to talk us through this i as was here how is to listens trip playing out in pakistan and the tough and stance that weve seen from the u. S. Now. Our well what he said didnt cover a lot of us really was. A little tough stance but in fact a funny look said. From the angle of what the president said on twenty first august last then it was nothing near because this was about the president from stance. That was already conveyed and we are aware of it but well he is here he had a meeting with the Prime Minister so things. Have not yet come out the statement is yet to come out about well obviously its an important visit and a lot of. Things are to be shared by both sides obviously american side order. That the foreign secretary would convey americans a concern in pakistan obviously would show its own concerns so they have to try to find a way respecting each other interest and accommodating each other concern but obviously its too big to say right now that whether all american concern would be accepted or rejected but obviously an effort would be made to make some way to continue with the Positive Side of a relation between us because their relations are not going in that i direction for the last some time now they certainly were glaring and holder talking as if they want to telegraph still iran is doing that and the message that hes trying to get across and what he would like to hear from the pakistanis. Well i think hes got two purposes one to show the pakistanis that we still have things we can work on and they still are an important poor part of our whole security arrangement in that part of the world i think the other thing is that i think he wants to tell them that theyve got to stop aiding the taliban and giving. Aid and comfort to groups like the Hakani Network because the longer that they do that the longer this war will will go on but we have had this on again off again relationship with pakistan going back to when they got a Nuclear Weapon and then when the soviets went into afghanistan we became you know allies again and then of course after nine eleven we became very close but then they some people in there allowed bin laden to take refuge and so we didnt even tell them when we went in and got bin laden so weve had this on again off again and i think he also needs to lay out what is a Long Term Plan in afghanistan do we want negotiations and what would be willing to accept to give the taliban some role back in afghanistan and that area for one thing was going to be jumping in here if the usa that knowledge is the role that pakistan does play you know and they helped him out was a waste on for example i mean always a just a tough game policy when it comes to pakistan well they do record the pakistans have been helpful in afghanistan in fact after nine eleven they were very helpful the pakistanis were upset that after we drove out the taliban and al qaida we took our attention off and allow allow the taliban to come back in by going into iraq so part of it is our own own fault because the pakistanis like any other nation want to protect their own interests much stuck around him the view from kabul telephone made an unannounced visit to kabul and im wondering what it is that he took from there that hes taking to the table in pakistan before he returns what what needs to be seen coming from that. Well he was quite clear in his speech last last night when he met with the president and the chief executive officer of the government of afghanistan where he said that they have clear demands put forward to the pakistani government and we have been hearing the same directive now since twenty first august when the when the us President Trump announced a strategy followed for south asia where they have been pushing and putting pressure on pakistani government to stop providing centuries to the militants fighting in afghanistan they are asking pakistani government to stop playing the double game that they have been playing all the last two and a half decade in atlanta side with the International Community and the. Quest for questioning and stopping supporting these centuries of the militants in the area under the control of pakistani government in federally administrated tribal areas so their demands are pretty and the Afghan Government is pretty much expecting that this is the same narrative will be will be communicated to the pakistani side of the table when he is in pakistan meeting the senior officials there. Want to pick up on the double game that you mentioned a little bit earlier on but lets just remind ourselves about the u. S. Pakistan relationship and white so important here its gone through several hundred cold periods over the past fifty years in the one nine hundred eighty they went together to minimize the soviet unions presence in the region especially in afghanistan as thanks for its cooperation the u. S. Gave pakistan billions of dollars in aid but the ties became more distant after the cold war ended and Pakistan Strategic importance to america diminished in the one nine hundred ninety the u. S. Threatened to put pakistan on the state sponsors of terrorism list and impose sanctions on india and pakistan then you can test things that stabilized a bit by the time of the september eleventh attacks and. Two thousand and one and then the u. S. Was back at war in afghanistan and pakistan was on its side the relationship strengthened the us forgave a billion dollars of debt and named pakistan a non nato ally but at the same time the u. S. Began drone strikes on northwest and pakistan targeting the taliban many civilians were killed and the mistrust has grown in the u. S. Accusing pakistan of helping taliban fighters and other groups escape capture so this double game that mushtaq was talking about i as how does a benefit pakistan and talk us through it. Well im not going to go into accusing each other that i think has been done for the last so many years its another one for another im talking about our faith in the National SecurityServices Provided to some of the armed groups which have conducted attacks but in afghanistan and pakistan well and. If youre talking about the Pakistani Security side or let me be absolutely clear about it the i. S. I. Is a role in the game. Lets lets look at it from the true perspective the two countries immediate never of aniston and pakistan have a long long relation and this court about the trust deficit increase do it a period of time because their intelligence with think are involved in doing things in pakistan which they should not do and similar they users of are doing the same thing but the crux of the medleys that one fourth of the american visitor has come is like what president graham said there are safe havens in pakistan but our Prime Minister and foreign minister run under a card to have said that we are prepared to take the american or anyone suspecting pakistan of say of heaven to the places where they think the save heavens are to pinpoint of the seven theyve heavens are there im not talking of yesterday im talking of today the Pakistan Military is in the tribal area there the fencing the border with afghanistan to control the movement of the militants from each other country but it is unfortunately the other side which is not cooperating in managing divider so lets look at the problem how can there be solved it cannot be solved through the use of force if the american are. Used to can do did they will be able to christiane of the taliban the taliban foot soldiers in afghanistan nobody goes from pakistan there may be some leadership here in pakistan but the food source that i repeat myself in afghanistan and everybody understand and believe is that fighting percent of the land is standard a is that under the taliban control under their influence ok they did not even have in many areas ok let me bring in the larry come here is taking the americans the u. S. To these socalled safe havens enough larry what is it that the u. S. Wants to see the Security Services the pakistan Security Services do to try and bring peace to the troubled area including afghanistan well then they dont want them to continue to provide these safe havens and why are my colleague from pakistan us talking about us not foot soldiers well there are some there that go ahead and they can regroup and come our combat come back again i mean from the pakistani point of view theyre trying to ensure that afghanistan does not come on come under their control for example they dont want to see indian influence there they want to have a role in setting up the government they have so that they can maintain influence so they are providing a not support not only to the leaders but to the Ground Troops to make sure that the taliban basically will be able to be or have a role and negotiations and thats the u. S. Policy now we would like to see a negotiated solution between the Afghan Government and the taliban thats what we would like but until that happens pakistan is going to protect its own interests i mean in International Politics nations dont have permanent friends or enemies they are permit. An interest and pakistan has interest for example in what role india is going to play in the region so basically i think another thing i hope to listen and talk about and maybe even get all the powers that are have an interest there china russia India Pakistan to work to come up with a solution that ends the fighting in afghanistan i must tell you cant just blame pakistan obviously on whats happening in afghanistan i mean afghanistan has got a problem with its weak leadership for example you can bomb the taliban to the table. You know what yes there are some there are internal problems and these problems are can be anywhere i mean any country will have any of these problems we do face problems here but the leadership in the government governance structures are weak and that the problem within the Security Sector the corruption is an issue that has been raised time and again but then. The narrative of the discourse which is in here is that this is the conflict the war of the militancy is the behind all these problems that the government of afghanistan has not been able to really put push the agenda for reforms forward. It can be either way i mean a chicken and egg issue you can you can say that we have support of our neighbors who stop supporting militants and we are able to government of afghanistan is able to take a bread bread of peace and have a moment of peace they can concentrate on governance reforms and dealing with issues are corruptions coming to the point that mr was it is their foot soldiers that had leadership is that see foot soldier has to be in afghanistan because they have to be fighting the International Forces and the National Forces but the issue is that whenever they are put to i under pressure they have an opportunity to treat back we have references available there are numbers of books written where the evidence is provided that people have been treated who have been injured in the battlefield in afghanistan they have been able to go back to quite time pasha and in other parts of pakistan and get treated and get supported and returned back to the battlefield again. A safe havens discussion comes is that it provides a cushion to the militant groups to come in to the militia effort for do the fighting in fighting the militia war and then drifted back so that the. The problem is that if we have supporters or neighbors with Good Intention i think the government of afghanistan will be able to reach an agreement with the taliban but the problem is that things are dictated in a way where personal interest and i dont know even if we call it a personal interest but its a bit of kind of trying to deny here germany or afghanistan which has been tried or the course of last four decades i have been hearing the words strategic depth strategy of i. S. I. Which has been pursued in afghanistan. What about bringing in india this is what Trump Administration is now considering i mean is that a good idea is that going to resolve the problems on the ground in afghanistan and how does pakistan feel about it considering how pakistan feels about india. Pakistan. Believe is known to everyone we have a serious concern about india and negativity from of understanding what is pakistan otherwise we have no issue with india or afghanistan and thereby a little relationship they can strengthen it to the maximum deccan. If they can afford to but there should not be at the cost of pakistan if india is coming in dr understand and from there trying to. Do harm pakistan from the western border which we have enough proof as i said forty percent or even more the area is not under the control of the government of afghanistan so that india can easily people in their data can easily be used for activity is vital and we have to defend as corrective of bush and the other there is as a witness who has admitted being involved in activities here in pakistan if there tell him and. Can be thickeners somebody can get indeed that nothing would be done in an honest than against pakistan by indian we have an issue with that larry that was taught in there is little reason i like to bring larry colvin have you dont mind why would india be brought into the equation is this a is this a cod to pressurise pakistan to do more about reigning in the minutes since is it a dangerous game to play here. I think its very dangerous because for pakistan the real concern in that region is india they have very good relations with china when i was in pakistan a couple of years ago the people in the i. S. I. Were telling me that india had forty four council thats in afghanistan which was way way exaggerated but i cant overestimate the the way in which pakistan views india so i think if you want to bring india in it should be part of a whole other group of nations including china and russia because of it just india i think the pakistanis will basically take that very very seriously and will stop any of the cooperation that theyre giving us right now much talk knowing what pakistan feels about india do you think its a good call to get into more involved in dealing with the crisis in afghanistan i mean might you become even more of a proxy war. See ideal would have been that we should have had good relation and a lot of intervention from pakistani side because they are our immediate neighbors and pakistan has been a country who has meaning gauged in afghanistan or the law school of the course of last forty years and they come as natural allies as part of the Development Assistance effort from the regional countries but the problem is that they havent been playing a positive role and thats why the Afghan Government has to look elsewhere but one thing sure to happen is to have on a sunny good to see the bilateral lucian between pakistan and india is their internal matter just like the relationship between afghanistan and india is a bilateral issue right now but im sitting on hows it going to benazir how are you going to kill the unborn allowance india becomes a big player in your country how could that possibly benefits of going to stand. See afghanistan is in need of Development Support and it has been looking every where it has been trying to rely on every available opportunity because the country has to get back on its feet and if india is offering that why not understand has been receiving a bit of support from pakistan as well over the course of last sixteen years so afghanistan is mainly looking at the Development Assistance and if it comes from pakistan its welcome like up on a sun has been trying to strike some deals on trade issues i would like to launch remind you everybody that president rouhani when he took the office he put all the relationship with india on heart afghanistan had signed a Strategic Partnership agreement with india during the book but then president only put that at heart and he ran first and foremost to pakistan and that as well first. People who have the most in the Foreign Affairs of pakistan and even to the general headquarters of the Pakistani Military or the military guys signed some dont some some by electoral issues in terms of Border Management security arrangements etc and you try to strike a deal with pakistan that could help both sides but when over the course of after the two thousand and fourteen deals that he had said agreed with the Pakistani Military well you know you have to. Act time gentleman it was a great conversation thank you very much for talking to us i as was am i stuck to him and call and thank you for watching as you know you can see the program again any time just go to our website al jazeera dot com and if you want to see more than that just Facebook Page thats facebook dot com ford slash inside story the conversation on twitter you can find a handle at inside story mine is at jane doesnt. Aljazeera recounts the shocking story of the assassination of counts folk abene dot. The first u. 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