Nuclear ambitions chinese vice premier young dong is currently visiting the United States those are the headlines the news continues here on aljazeera after inside story life and. Women in saudi arabia finally allowed to drive from next year is lifting the ban a fine of real reform in the kingdom but it speed up for auction with the powerful religious establishment this is inside. Hello im sam is a than welcome to the show now its the only country in the world where women were banned from getting behind the wheel of a car but not for much longer just nine months to be exact to see the king solomon is allowing women to legally drive for the first time from next june the royal decree removes a cornerstone of saudi conservatism some Credit Service of voices on social media on happy rights activists are delighted that saudi women are finally being allowed to do whats entirely normal everywhere else so will the decree excel or rate existing tensions in the kingdom and is it a major step towards gender equality in a male dominated society well be discussing that and more in a moment with our panel but first polls have a g. M. Reports. Activists like dr mcgee how a lot of jews have been lobbying for decades for the kingdom of saudi arabia to allow women to drive and instead again been times that i get im ready my daughter is ready and who says society is ready how much longer can we live in an Oppressive Society that prevents us from our full rights. By next summer dr mcgee how will be allowed to drive without risking arrest fines and punishment the new policy will allow women to obtain a drivers license without having to ask permission of the husband father or male guardian the kingdoms representative to the United Nations talk about the policy during a meeting at the u. N. This is a historic day for Saudi Society for men and women and we can now say at last so you arabia is hoping the policy will help the economy and increased role of women in the workforce as part of the economic reform agenda and the efforts to streamline the amount of money that the state spends on its citizens with diminished oil revenue the idea of including more women into the labor force would would definitely help and so driving is is one mechanism to increase womens economic participation and almost anybody could be something that other activists reacted on social media mundo a shot of as a saudi womens rights advocate who was arrested for posting a video of herself driving in two thousand and eleven to protest the law in a tweet celebrating the decree she use the hash tags women to drive and daring to drive she also said the fight for equality in saudi arabia is far from over i grew up in ultra conservative society the United States also welcomed the move by the kingdom well then were happy were happy were certainly happy to hear that if saudi women are now able to drive certainly here in the United States we would certainly welcome that and so i think its a great step in the right direction for that country. Another step thats been lauded by right. Activist came over the weekend for the first time women were allowed to enter the king fahd stadium to celebrate the eighty seventh anniversary of the kingdoms foundation the father i know how to still and with saudi women are able to do anything they respected and have proven themselves in every field they are not so weak as to be contained to one place. The the right for women to drive may be a welcome step but some human rights organizations say the kingdom has a long way to go in guaranteeing equal rights for not only women but for minorities like those who are subjected to hate speech and Violent AttacksPaul Chatterjee on aljazeera. Well lets get the thoughts of our guest now joining us on the panel today is to calve senior lecturer at the university of east anglia where she teaches courses on women and film in miami in the usa we have saudi activist yes i mean saw it and in london ross the bag of womens rights researcher at Human Rights Watch welcome to the show everyone if i could start with yes i mean in the usa in miami so women driving sounds like a very normal situation elsewhere in the world even elsewhere anywhere in the muslim world how much of a big step is this though specifically for saudi arabia i would definitely say that its a very big staff and its one of the most visible signs. You know modernization efforts by the saudi government to date even though there have been a lot of other reforms that have been happening in the last twenty years and youre a man and the crown prince as well this is definitely the one that has made global headlines are rightfully so because like you said any saudi arabia is is the only country in the world where women in have until two thousand and seventeen been banned from driving so that really big deal its a big deal i lam its been on the table for a while now the authorities have always pushed back against attempts to try and change the situation when it came to women being able to drive what prompted this decision now. Im not sure if this decision was prompted at this very moment in time there might be other ideological and political reasons why it was prompted at this moment in time but why i would like to kind of consider this from an historical point of view in two thousand and eleven as the report suggested also in two thousand and thirteen i was teaching in my classes about saudi womens driving ban and they were still at the time playing videos of themselves on twitter for example to share their experience of driving as a subversive act and the images that ive seen today in relation to this particular news item was also this were also the same they were very much similar to those images i think is something that is to do with the concept of change change is something that happens very slowly but its good that this is happening fighting against patriarchy fighting against male domination and fighting for womens rights are things that wont change overnight they will take time and i think this is just a step forward or its all about step forward lets go to roth what practical difference does this make to the lives and the freedoms that women enjoy in saudi arabia rotha. Sardou woman driving is a huge achievement for the womens rights activists in the country have been fighting for this more than two decades they one of the biggest issues that theyve talked about is the reality that they face not being able to drive this is a country where Public Transportation is limited where to get anywhere around the country you do need to have to drive and of course that means that you are reliant on your male relatives or male drivers to do so now if you are well off when you are able to have that kind of access then male drivers no problem but for many women even if they are independent and have the money and the means they want to be able to go get into a car and drive just like any other man in the kingdom and for many other women who actually cant afford a driver who find it very difficult to maintain the lifestyle they have with a driver in place that can be very difficult it can be difficult to get a job it can be difficult to maintain a job if you need to be able to pay your way to get to get to get to work on time so this has been a real impediment for those in particular in terms of access to employment but also in situations like Domestic Violence if youre being beaten up how do you get out the house how do you get to the Police Station if you need to get to the hospital you need need Immediate Care you will you were going to be arrested if you end up in a car trying to drive yourself there you will need to find other ways and means to be able to do that this decision would if in completely allows women with the same access as men to drive it would provide a historic difference to womens lives all right more so let me just as well does not it is not unlike that you would use that if it allows completely the same access to drive as it aroused to men yes mean this still is not the nine months to go and the committee has to study the degree says how this is implemented is it going to happen and do you think theres going to be any attempt to push back at it in the next nine months. I definitely do think that its going to happen when a royal decree is issued of this magnitude usually and actually theyve even announced it themselves that the senior scholars and saudi arabia have approved didnt have no objection with islamic law as they call it and so i think that it is going to happen im sure that there are going to be some pushback in certain more conservative segments of Saudi Society who see this. This allowance for women to drive as it moves towards greater independence for for women and saudi arabia which is something that they would object to and so i will i definitely do anticipate some resistance from the more conservative sectors of society but in general i think that this nine months is actually a good time to give the Saudi Society time to sort of digest this its been anticipated you know these thirty forty years. Theyve been talking about this and. You know if they will have to organize the road is going to be you know you can imagine a lot more drivers on the road there are issues are licenses and driving schools are going to be have the comedy to the female population so i think that there are going to be there is going to be procedural a logistical bureaucratic adjustments that need to happen but i think most importantly in the next nine months theres going to need to be some education and making awareness in saudi arabia with the public that this is actually a very good first are a society that is really in the interest of Saudi Society for women to be able to drive for all the reasons that the other you mentioned some interesting terms their. Public Awareness Education is this a country that is genuinely right now reforming and expanding the margins of freedom in general on the way about womens issues and and beyond i think there are lots of other issues that not just saudi but many countries have to face with their tackling with in terms of gender politics in terms of womens rights i do think that there has been a great progress in terms of change within saudi i know this from the perspective of films that were made for example within the country the first ever film for example was made by a woman i found mansurs film called wild show that came out in two thousand and twelve in which she kind of the picks those issues around gender segregation driving ban and other issues including forced marriage child brides and so on so there are lots of other issues but i think the key question that i would like to focus on is this idea of the middle east or the arab world all saudi arabia in this case. Being kind of regarded or talked about or perceived as the backward kind of culture that needs to change i was really particularly kind of surprised today to see a comment from as the report suggested from the United States and one of the governmental departments said this is a great progress in terms of the right direction i think we really need to stop for a minute and this kind of think about who decides on what is right and what is wrong what those Cultural Values are that makes things right or wrong and have a really really forcing by talking about saudi arabia or any part of the arab world or the middle east in that regard are we talking about them in a really kind of backlash way that would put all reinforce those stereotypes are we recreating those with our language that we used to talk about these progressives elements the media in general has been nice not necessarily helpful in representing saudi in particularly positive ways but i think this is a big step or and. Youre coming to the right place with you and. How we frame things im so glad youve raised that but lets put things into a broader perspective and that seems to be the way were going now with this because allowing women to drive is in line with a Broader Program called vision twenty thirty its promoted by the Saudi Crown Prince mohammed bin salomon it aims to modernize Saudi Society for the First Time Ever last week women were allowed into a sports stadium for example as part of Saudi NationalDay Celebrations up to now sports arenas have been strictly men only the Saudi Sovereign Wealth Fund for example announced a plan this month to invest in the entertainment sector public cinemas are banned in the kingdom saudi leaders have confirmed plans to build more resorts and the recreation city dedicated to sports culture and then to tame and the crown prince also launched a crackdown on dissent. Though social media reports say political rivals critics clerics even have fallen victim reports say at least ten scholars were detained including the popular sound man allowed hours more than fourteen million twitter followers let me take that question to you while women may be able to drive next year well you said social media reports so some pretty prominent figures are being put in jail even economists like assam azzam for disagreeing with the countrys economic reform process is the so you know let me put the question again to you is this a country that is really reforming or is this you know some say cynical p. R. Move well ill put it in a slightly different way when we talk about reform in saudi arabia we have to ask how much are they really reforming so when we talk about it for instance just talk about the driving for instance they could have said that women are allowed to drive and tomorrow women are allowed to drive as women with International Arrivals licenses can take to the road but instead they said theyll take thirty days to review the decision and that means they could be spending that time to come up with ways to restrict womens right to drive and by june two thousand and eighteen will actually see what the reality is like for that reform but in general around the country inside arabia we know that while the side really has always you know for the last how many decades has embraced what we consider to be modern Society Technology and so on so it was been very bracing of such things they have at the same time doing credibly repressive over the years weve seen prominent human rights defenders like mohammed the tiny like. Many other human rights are defenders who have been arrested who are now spending ten to fifteen Years Imprisonment and in the last year or so weve seen many more activist defend people on twitter expressing their peaceful opinion who have been arrested or continue to be harassed and intimidated by the authorities so while side arabia does have a vision twenty third. It does is talking about reform in the country in a variety of ways that we form package the understanding of what reform means has to be about human rights for all both men and for women and designing a package of reforms that actually see that reform country reality not ones that actually restrict the reform itself. Yes when you in mentioned there pushback from some conservative quarters numb wondering will this sort of moving crease the tensions within Saudi Society between the government and some of the conservative quarters. Imho i think that there is definitely some level of polarization that exists in Saudi Society between modern saudis and traditional saudis and i think its very visible even when you are in now. Or in more of the inland areas and so i do. Anticipate that there will be definite tension which is why its very important for the media to play a very Important Role as i mean if you feel my life or imagine of us give us an idea well though some of those visible signs that you would see that perhaps not everyone is aware of terms of differences between real object the being you know on the west coast and we all being in the east of saudi arabia well i think generally speaking i mean obviously there are conservatives and liberals and we are as well but if i were to generalize out say the cheaters is more liberal in their lifestyles in their theyre just saying the compounds that they were the host. You know the lifestyle there are a lot more open a lot more flexible for families and as opposed to more traditional lifestyles that where women cover completely including their faces and their hands and there are theres a great greater restriction for them to be able to get scholarships and travel abroad freely or study abroad there and they dont send their daughters the they get married earlier so there are many different lifestyle differences and there is there is very obvious pose nation in the country in terms of lifestyle so i do anticipate seeing. You know considerable resistance from the more Services Side of society which is why its really important to spend the next ever. Mind educating them on the Practical Implications will be able to drive and how it will greatly benefit the economy and that society as a whole there really needs to be a very formal sense of educating the public on why are these kinds of reforms are in the best interest of the nation i let me mention the minutes ago we have to be very careful about the sort of terms we use about what is the right direction how much consensus then is there within Saudi Society about what is the right direction for reform i mean some people would have prioritized this sort of issue as being one of the Top Priorities you read maybe on the twitter sphere others who would say the priority for reform should really be allowing people to express themselves regardless of their gender on twitter allowing religious scholars or economists to express themselves without fear of imprisonment. Thats true i think this is an issue about how womens issues womens rights have been historically and traditionally used not only within saudi arabia but also globally as a rino as all spaces of political tensions if we think about for example the language that we use when we talk about the nation we always refer to it as in terms of femininity or womanhood so for example when we say Mother Tongue or when we say mother land were talking about womanhood in different ways and i think within this context as well womens rights issues and women themselves are becoming sites to discuss political tensions so even though there are lots of other things going on within the country for example political prism and as we have discussed before. I think it is important to acknowledge that these are being discussed in relation to womens issues so while you are kind of putting the focus putting the camera on one topic you kind of also avoiding other things so what is being filmed what is being brought forward is as important as the things that arent being filmed and being shown so i think we need to think about that in more careful ways and i saw a rotten a very in the corner of my you were trying to get in on the discussion says let me give you a chance to get in on that sure i dont think this is one right versus another right we shouldnt be talking about which one should come first theyre all is a whole package of human rights that sorry but should be providing its citizens and that includes for instance freedom of speech as well as allowing women the whole host of rights that theyre currently being denied currently theyre still second class citizens in their own country so for a long time because of the fact that purchase a ban in the kingdom you can organize you can have trade unions it means its really difficult for saudi women to organize to come up and to petition and to start n. G. O. S and so on its actually it was has been very very difficult for women to get the kinds of achievement. They have right now because of those kind of detrimental impact and violating their rights as a whole in terms of society but the same time by denying women their rights theyre also keeping back society as a whole so by not allowing women to drive means that they are not able to do a number of things that can contribute to society including the economy thereby also allowing and maintaining the male guardianship system which means that women cannot undertake certain things like traveling abroad or obtaining a passport without permission of their male guardian which can be the husband the father the brother or even their son means that they continue to remain dependent on their military again creating a lot of problems whether its in work within staley reality and so on but also keeping back society as a whole in terms of furthering both economy but also in general the social levels of the community as well a lot of people would of course agree with that sort of perspective and so all rights need to be tackled at the same time but my question really was is that the way its seen or how much consensus is there within Saudi Society yes i mean youre a saudi youre a woman youre an activist. I wonder what your thoughts are on this i mean when you look at the top four twitter accounts for example in terms of followers in saudi arabia their accounts of religious scholars and figures mostly does it Say Something about sort of the direction that many if not most saudis want their country to go and do we really have an idea about what reform means to most saudis. Ok and im glad you post posed that question sami because you see i see this as you know like the starfish story you know where you know this child was picking up a starfish for a meat in the water and then this guy came and said well what about all the thousands of other starfish is a watch to be sure that will matter to this one i think the point was that that story is really relevant here is because when we talk about you know when women or in this case particularly the lifting of the ban for women to drive or the ability for women to travel or all the other numerous major step reforms and have in the last few years in saudi arabia particularly in backing women we need to sort of stop for a second and be able to applaud that and not necessarily say well one reform happened over form has to happen at that time at that place if within the same juncture yes of course all the other restrictions that are still there in saudi arabia that are imposed whether its politically or are otherwise. Needs to happen you know over time but i dont want to also discount what has been achieved. Right ok im afraid were going to have to not all right lets end it on that point then its not all or nothing it really is in life that thanks to our guests because we are out of time yes means there and ruffner begum and of course i am at a cab thank you all for joining us you can see the show again to any time if you visit our website aljazeera dot com for further discussion head over to our Facebook Page at facebook dot com ford slash a. J. Inside story you can also join the conversation on twitter our handle is at a. J. Inside story from me sam is a dan and the whole theme here for now is go back. To a. I just want to make sure all of our audience is on the same page where theyre on line and what produced the u. S. 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