Want to make warm soup, the most sincere person is there, it was very unusual, i wont say that the best was you will see, the premiere, cooks on wheels, tomorrow on the first one, is it easy to be recognized as a genius during my lifetime, if i answer this question seriously, i will look like an idiot, we decided to record the memories of friends, yeah. He was complex, tall , young, im elderly, small, fat, bald, maybe im wrong , its quite possible, so what, whatever, im definitely wrong, an elderly woman stands up and says i didnt understand the audience, he that he will read from a piece of paper, will not sing, on the occasion of the ninetieth anniversary of the birth of mikhail zhvanetsky, from tuesday on the first, i say normally, grigor. But here is jazz, yes, its already a classic now, of course, in a sense, here, this is synthesis, there is everything here, this is improvisation, real modern music, how wonderful it is, in general, in a word, boy. A scholar of music, then a pragmatist , then many years in an orchestra, and not yet a boy, but a husband, who thinks in detail, carefully about how different arts relate to each other, i also thought about this, and you also know that in in the middle of our episodes, our podcast, there is always an authors section, its just starting now, so i brought a few old books from my library, these are books by marcel. Just a classic of french literature, this is a book from the year twentyseven , the Academy Publishing house is very famous, this book is from the year thirtyfour, lovingly restored by someone, it certainly didnt look like that in the original, well, this is already a book from the year seventythree, but whats the point . I thought about reading something that would just describe the synthesis of literature and music, i thought maybe the break of ivan goncharov, the author of oblomov, there is such a scene when one of the heroes listens to music and talks about it, maybe thomas mann, his novel doctor fau, where he invented Adrian Leverkuhn and came up with his music and retells it in words again. Bequeathed to attribute that this schonberg came up with what schonberg came up with, he is a great musician, and i am a great author, so, but i still settled on proust, because there is in this seventon, huge epic of proust, which is called in search of the lost time, or in search of lost time, as they said. He had prousts vinteuil, then they went discussions, maybe it was with camille sensan, from whom he copied all this, he didnt copy it from anyone, then much later, after prousts death, there was a man who wrote this sonata, as if, according to the description, he materialized vinteuils sonata, then there is a huge detective story, and i would like this literally short paragraph of text to be heard in two translations, because this is also a competition of translators, one of them is adrian frankovsky, and the other, Nikolai Mikhailovich lyubimov, translator of donquexote, and in fact, as they say, in languages you support cska or spartak everything is clear right away, its a competition in translations simply, yes, frankovsky or lyubimov, there are others, we will now talk about them, but this fragment that i will read, it is interesting because here , after all, the competition is to its better to describe music in words. Lets start with adrian frankovskys translation, this book is from 1934, here in the verdurin salon, its happening, this evening at madame verdurins, as soon as the young pianist struck a few chords and stretched out one high note for two bars, suddenly saw, this was his surname svan, he saw how, due to a long sound, stretched out like a sound. Curtain to hide the secret of her birth, a secret, rumbling, dismembered phrase appeared svan recognized this airy, fragrant phrase that captivated him, she was so unique, she contained such an individual charm that nothing could replace, that swann thought he met in the living room of his friends the woman he had once seen on the street, the woman he had captivated, whom he despaired of ever seeing again. , and he. There he meets, yes, through this musical phrase, this is the story, now nikolai lyubimov, the same phrase from this sanata of a nonexistent composer in the translation of his beloved sounds like this but, a few minutes later, after the young pianist began to play with the verdunovs, after a high note that lasted a long time, two whole bars, swann suddenly saw how, because of a long sound, stretched out as if. A sounding curtain hiding the secret of birth, fluttered out and moved towards him the cherished, rustling, isolated musical phrase, and its this one of yours an airy and fragrant favorite, he recognized at that very moment, she was so unusual, full of such a unique, such a special charm that for svan it was like meeting in a friends living room with a woman who had once charmed him on the street, with whom he. Unexpected to meet again, these are fragrant masterpieces of the nonexistent composer vinteuil, the great french novelist, simply and two wonderful translators, this is music that can be understood, because music cannot be retold, yes , no, no, impossible, it means nothing, ill hear now this quote , which you just read wonderfully, you can say, in general, here. There are a lot of meanings, a lot of meanings, because music is often always visual, you always listen to music, close your eyes, you can definitely instantly on. Give yourself any picture, yes, any picture or not, i think any, any, because the music itself will lead you, try it, remember how we once met you in ryazan on some business trip and something about rachmaninovs anniversary, but again some speeches, well, usually Sergei Vasilyevich is great, and we all talked to each other, one of us asked, i dont remember who asked who, but remember there, well, the second concert, yes. I was a little behind in tempo, but in general its clear, and whats behind this, what worlds, what, what worlds arise, you remember the film moscow doesnt believe in tears, of course, of course, well, there the first second episode is interrupted by such an alarm clock ringing, its the tired heroine who falls asleep here, who studies there, she is a party student. Buchur, nonexistent sanato, both yes and no breath in the middle of pushkins line, and how did it happen, in general everything somehow worked out, i was the director of the philharmonic, the philharmonic was my home at that moment, i worked for so many years, by the way, when i came to the philharmonic, i went there by competition, as a musician, in general, life was difficult, there was little money, in addition to the fact that i played in the orchestra, in general, i also enjoyed being a stagehand there. Some, well, some other, some part time jobs were right there in one place, because, in general, it helped to live, the philharmonic is such a multiprofile organization, and concerts, classical music, modern, then the stage was in the philharmonic , i was able to communicate, this is the turn of the millennium, yes, i was able to communicate with many outstanding musicians, modern, and i received, i received a huge pleasure, by the way, this year , for example, schnittkas jubilee, 90 years old, and this was the same 2001, when we named the only Philharmonic Society in the world, in saratov, after schnittka, and i really liked it, we did such programs that would be interesting necessarily for young people, children about how to listen to classical music, that in general it s good to listen, just like reading good books, you definitely need to listen to good music, and i really liked this work, i really liked it and. There was an opportunity to be creative , something to create some kind of Program Every day, in general it was, but you didnt go out regularly anymore, there was no time, because you had to deal with a lot of administration, well, now less, but in general for some time, what that time, i cant say it was a very long time ago, in general, at night i dreamed that what to play, or i didnt learn the lesson, or i didnt learn the lesson, im playing exams, i dont know what to play next, well. And all sorts of funny things, then, finally, the Russian National museum of music , which you called that, too, yes, yes, it was called, well, the museum is famous in the country, yes, the allrussian Museum Association of musical culture named after glinka, and this was the decision made in 2018 by the ministry of culture that the museum should have Something Like this name Russian National museum of music, here in my hands is a book that i love so much. And here are many instruments that are kept in the museum of music, here is the kusli, then there is a saratov harmonica, this is not it, it is an accordion, there is a saratov harmonica, which is different in that it has bells, which you can ring, i cant find it now , then there is such a button, but this instrument, the synthesizer, is one of the first soviet synthesizers, ans stands for Alexander Nikolaevich scriabin. Master evgeniy murzin, and if you and i remember again the film the diamond arm, solaris by andrei torkovsky, then this is the musical sound there, there are no computers yet, so its possible, these are physicists, there are keys there, like old tape recorders, this , this was collected by a physicist from those same oscilloscopes and other physical instruments, if he lived in the world of the golden calf, he would definitely be a billionaire, but do you know how it works . This is a large metal plate on which an image is extruded, a drawing is extruded, that is, there is a graphic equivalent to music. A story that has a beginning , development, an end, well, in general, yes, due to the fact that you and i dont have much time, and you know, i dont want to give up at all, because, because this, this important for the institution. For the museum in the car, yes , for the museum, this is important, because, because people, even if you have not been to the museum, listen, one, two, three, well, maybe you will have a desire to come, see something find out more, either at home, later, or when you get out from behind the wheel, Something Like that look, interesting stuff, oh, theres so much, so much interesting stuff, i remember, by the way, there was an exhibition about sound reconnaissance during the war, for example, who would have thought, alexandrovich, folzhenitsin headed the sound reconnaissance unit. Who calculated the firing trajectories by sound, this is an unexpected thing, and if you remember the siege of leningrad, then people were sitting, generally with limited vision, they were sitting on devices that they call listening to the sky, they were sitting and listening to the sky with their ears, airplanes would appear are there planes, and by sound . They found out what kind of and in general it was and warned about raids, well, in general it is. Such, that is, sound is an absolute synthesis, here it is, lets go back to sort of loop this whole plot, we re talking about what they dont say, let them read, were talking, of course, as always, we re talking about , that we should not chat, but read, perceive art, and lets return to this problem of the connection between literature and music, here is a modern person who listens to music and reads literature, what kind of person is this, what kind of music . He listens, that is, its there on in your bones you had discs of vysotskys records , rolling stones, of course, but that is, you are ours, well of course, well, well, well, what about the beatles, then there was jazz that was not allowed, it was also on the bones, bourgeois art, of course, well, as i often say, history puts everything in its place, by the way, we recently had an exhibition dedicated to the centenary. Russian jazz, it was already 2 years ago last year, just recently, thats what the records on the bones, on the bones are xrays, what if someone i dont know. Schnittke, yes, no, yes, no, of course, but in general , modern people listen to any music, well , sometimes i manage to listen, i listen to basta, i listen to the singer zivvert, uh. Yes, well, i am listening, yes, i am listening, this does not mean that i am a fan, that there is something there, it seems to me that we should understand, since we are professionally dealing with this topic, the topic of music, the topic of heritage, because after some time, it will happen or it wont, they light it up, but you need to understand, because like you, like the state. Literary museum and medals, as well as the Russian National museum of music, we are not only engaged in the fact that if someone thinks that we are storing and storing, well, what is supposed to be stored, no, we are also collecting todays history, which tomorrow will become, will become a classic, yes , therefore, what is happening today, this very modernity, how nice it is to hear, in literature for you, there is still something from besides the greats, besides chekhov. When you are with a book, then when you read, different different thoughts come all the time, absolutely, im telling you this as if not professional writer, but what happens when you are with a book, when you read and there is a certain plot and you think, but at that moment a parallel comes to me with the work that i do, how deeply dear . Nonexistent and you understand that here i am taking yes, absolutely true, yes, absolutely true, yes , some ideas, some thoughts, some interesting ones, some other life is starting, im sure that you too time of our programs, maybe some other wonderful life starts, which helps to overcome something, for this discovery, as for the entire conversation, i am eternally grateful to my. Brasgalov. You are watching the precious history podcast. My name is ekaterina varkan. Today my guest is ekaterina obrostsova, director, honored artist of russia and granddaughter of Sergei Vladimirovich obraztsov. He staged plays, invented individual characters, made dolls, he had solo concerts, or he performed at concerts and even performed in the st. George hall of the kremlin, in group concerts, and there he played puppet numbers, because he discovered a new genre, romances with dolls, there was such an original pretty doll, she performed a romance, come back, i will forgive everything, this doll was getting dressed. On the head, living hands were pushed through the fabric, here there are also such variants of this doll, and two more variants, on these hands of Sergei Vladimirovich there were rings, in general, grandfather had amazing hands, i ve never seen such plastic hands, probably never , thats how his famous tyapa number is, which is here on your screen. No one can repeat it, because it is amazingly virtuoso the work of the hands, which means this doll used rings like these, and so that the shirt wouldnt get in the way, like accountants in the old days wore things like this, so the shirt was removed so that the hands were exposed , this was all for grandfathers, these two rings are like already when. This number was not performed , they were given to me, and i then served as an artist in the theater sfera played in these rings, there was such a performance in harolta fashion, i played madame chasen, i was wearing these grandfathers vodofor rings. Katya, i know that sergei vladimovich divided things into two most important ones categories, yes, for necessary and necessary, necessary things this is a chair, a table, a fork. A knife, but necessary is something that is necessary for the soul, without which it is impossible to live, that there will be imagination, and he always said, regarding his collection, which we will talk about later, that i look at these things, i imagine, how a child played with this doll, how there are some ritual actions in this mask, it will be imagination, it gives rise to some ideas and these things are necessary, i was poured. Vodka was poured and part of this vodka fell in the cockerel, in my opinion, 50 g. It was completely impossible to pour it out of the cockerel, only in the morning i dripped 50 g from there for a hangover. We tried it with water, the same thing happens, then its wonderful, also one of my favorite things, the golden nightingale in sergeis collection vladimecha, there for today. Yes, this is an amazing thing, of course , there is such a game of scale here, if you look, yes, what a bird, what a boat, Sergei Vladimirovich was very fond of all kinds of living creatures , and he kept birds, including whoever was there, including pigeons , and drove around roofs of pigeons, it was since childhood, and he got pigeons at the dacha, everyone knew him at the poultry market, his name was, oh, vladimirovich came, there are many photographs. At the poultry market, at the dacha, he built a dovecote, and there he had pigeons, and after some time , quite large, he discovered an allergy to pigeons. It means he , he liked it terribly, he put it on the guests, showed the thermometer, look, i have 36. 6, now look, i go up to the dovecote, come back, 39, mom and wife screamed at him terribly so that he would stop doing this to his abused my body, he says, well , its interesting, well, how is it, well, in general, my mother always cleaned up after these pigeons, she felt sorry for my grandfather. Just as she looked after the crocodiles, and where did the crocodiles come from . They lived in apartments. America gave him two such crocodiles, who grew into huge ones, their names were tatosha and kakosha, then later they lived in the palace of pioneers, in theater they. First they lived in an apartment, then in a theater, and then they were placed there, although a Swimming Pool was built for them, yes, but they outgrew it, in a palace, but sergei vladimovich would be strange, he had a very large collection of toys , its impossible for a puppeteer to live without toys, theyre made of clay, theyre made of wood , its all understandable, yes, but there were some strange things, made of corn cobs, bamboo, seeds, bushes, scouring pads, whole racks. Filled, then, with all these toys, if we have them, we can show, but if we talk about it, it seems to me that we will simply drown somewhere, which means that it seems to me that we can, uh, say about another great passion of Sergei Vladimirovich, he was very fond of masks, he has a huge collection masks that hangs in the house, on the wall, and we will say that these masks are not souvenirs, even the African Institute was jealous of them, yes. Believed and i believed in my youth, he also laughed at me, well, anyway, the feeling is very special over the drummer, some strange sensations, and another one is also quite like that a strange mask, heavy for me, which he received as a gift from the great juliet masina, but also scary, he was friends with masina, this is known, this is the famous story when juliet masina was asked what did you like most in moscow . She said samples. That was the answer. Well, the girl had good taste, what . Kat . But besides that, it means, in general, these are very personal, personal things and personal attachments, although what we will talk about later was also a personal interest, but Sergei Vladimirovich has completely unique things, the handicrafts of maria fedorna , pavel petrovichs wife, that is. The emperor, yes, paul i, she was a great needlewoman, which means this thing, its on blue silk, the silk has faded a little, its cut out of paper, which means the design is pasted on, applied, but she was a great needlewoman and even cut out on lathes, medals, cups, and ekaterina alekseevna, her motherinlaw, yes, this is empress catherine the second, she kept saying that you are at the mint you take it away, that means. But its probably included in 10, but its a very small amount. This is the thirties of the 19th century, so sergei vladimovich, that means, came from somewhere, that means, this is such an absolutely marvelous, masterpiece thing. With each butterfly i associate a military episode, or a political character, or a collision, which i remember now in moscow, when i look at my collection, the scouts on the boat were on the heels of this aircraft carrier, and not with a point removed. Confession on monday. At the first premiere of civilization film sixth india on tuesday first. We continue our conversation. Today our guests are ekaterina obraztsova, granddaughter of Sergei Vladimirovich obraztsov, director, honored artist of russia and i, her interlocutor, ekaterina varkan. Tell me, katyusha, are there any stories about how things come into the house . Well, from what i know. How the monkey came to the orchestra, this is an absolutely amazing thing, in some institution, this monkey house concert was thrown into a landfill somewhere , they said, one of my friends called my grandfather, said, you need to eat, seryozh, there is some strange thing lying there , he brought this is home, i realized that this was a very complex mechanism, i called my friend , there was such a magnificent doll maker, this is such a story, just a discarded thing, which, well, this is also the 18th century, as far as i understand myself, probably just me too ill add here, because Sergei Vladimir had quite a lot of barrel organs, they are very beautiful, we cant show them all, probably this tendency is like this, because he started in the twenties, and even then he still remembered that people were walking around, traveling puppeteers, actors, organ grinders, here this is another one. The youthful feeling was carried over into adulthood, he somehow paid attention to them, remembered this youth, and thus they also appeared and were acquired, very beautiful barrel organs, unusually, but we cant show one of them all, but we can show one of them even as if in actual sound form. This barrel organ from the famous german master was made for my studio now, i dont remember his last name , but its a very valuable barrel organ, well, who would doubt it, so they showed what it was like there was also a socalled napoleon table that decorates the living room, and this girl found a table somewhere in an antique store in st. Petersburg, it was all tattered and painted brown, like a leg, but my grandfather liked this leg, i think he took it this table, looked at something, looked closer, saw that something was shining through, called an antique dealer, who, a restorer, or rather, a restorer, who somehow washed it all, it turned out that there were portraits of the napoleonic army, and it is made in the old way, like a translation a picture, this is the story, and here is napoleon, here is josephine, the marshal. So imperceptible became a portist , lets say, katyusha, there are such family stories, they were never advertised, yes, they were not told publicly, not because they are completely secretive and secret, but maybe there was simply no reason, maybe i wasnt in the mood, maybe Something Else wasnt there , maybe well remember them today , well, lets talk about the soldiers, but the thing is. Then not only did no one remember about them, grandfather wrote about them in his book , this is the story its just not because i didnt want to talk about it, but the subject itself didnt exist, these soldiers didnt exist, after the death of my uncle alexei sergeevich obraztsov, my brother, his cousin, found these soldiers at the dacha in one of the boxes of my uncles secretary , and the history of the soldiers is described its clear, yes, according to the steps of memory, these books are exemplary, the uncle is his son, the soldiers were made by his uncle when he was little, when he turned 19 years old, the war began, and he served in morikhodka in st. Petersburg, right there from morikhodka he was sent to the front; there were a lot of people with him at the front. All sorts of adventures, he crossed the laduga, was wounded, he was a sapper , they were sent behind enemy lines as sappers to blow up bridges, trains, that is, my greatgrandfather Vladimir Nikolaevich made railroads, and his grandson meant he blew them up, but it was necessary business, a very dangerous matter , 70 of them left, only 14 returned back , the rest died, when they were already going back, so to speak, to our rear from behind enemy lines, they came out in the wrong place they were expected, and where they came out, naturally, without documents, naturally, it is simply unknown who, they were sentenced to death, the funny man imprisoned them. In some basement where they were waiting, executions were usually carried out in the morning, but luckily for them , a lieutenant from their unit was passing by and said what, you want to shoot, we put them in the hail, for their bravery, they have medals, their , that means you were released, and before that your grandfathers wrote that your son was missing, we hope that. Everything will end well for him, it was of course a big blow, well, you yourself you see, and grandfather waited and believed that his son would return, at some point he received the following telegram your son has been found, will be in moscow for days, given a reward, the corporal, an exemplary part will be equal, and grandfather began to wait for his son to return. 2 months passed, three, and the son still did not return, and grandfather said, he did not sleep at night, every time the elevator went up, every time he got up and waited for alyosha to come, then one day grandfather fell asleep on his own, she woke him up