This should have complicated his work, but no, he continued to work and. Created such Wonderful Worlds and images of a labyrinth or a world as a library, well , its interesting that he worked from a small form, this is a man who did not write a single novel, although it was nominated many times for nobel prize, i understand it, because they also regularly ask me, natalya , why dont you write a rock opera, i say, you know, im not my topic, big form, big form, this is not my topic, that is, if i ill even take it for such a thing, ill express everything i want. To say within the first two issues there are arias and characters and then i will become bored, i will give it all up, because borhiss prose is so rich, each story contains some terribly fascinating plot, a detective story even, a charade a puzzle, they are terribly complex, these short stories of his, and here we must definitely remember the writer whom borhis loved extremely, this is, of course, edgar allanpaugh, well, yes, these are horrors, horrors. And also charades, yes, like the stolen letter and similar things, that is, borhis very much relies on po, but he continues this work, continues to bring this story to the absolute, as in the story about abenhakan who died in his own labyrinth, when it turns out that the killer really is killed, this vizier soid, who very often in his, well, these charades and puzzles, images are repeated, i even wanted to be with you. We dont understand until the very last moment that there is a murder, there is a murder there all the time, that is, murder is not what it seems, he often has this plot, it seems to be a detective story connected with a labyrinth, there with mirrors, and with the search for oneself , here its interesting that after reading this garden of forking paths, i finally understood why borhis works with small forms, i realized that he himself created this labyrinth from the text, and here too, that is, from short , repeating, similar plots, it was so countless, it is a recursion, yes, it places mirrors in its labyrinth, which ultimately make it endless, it is so Beautiful Image and it is so applicable to absolutely everything , here in our screensaver there was. A painting by maurice escher, well, it s exactly the same thing, its just escher who is naturally visual, with him it happens in graphics, and with borhis it happens, heres escher, yes , it is really similar to the figurative world of borhis, thats why we took him, yes, this is this tape, this is this mobius motif , repeating recursions and so on, borhis was a man of encyclopedic memory, it seems to me that i know what his secret was, just judging by the fact that that he. Uses this labyrinth in the labyrinth, he places some hooks so that he himself does not get lost in this labyrinth, you know, he scatters crumbs, yes he scatters crumbs, yes, yes, yes, yes, that is, he uses classical renaissance techniques philosophy, this is a gnosiological technique, a technique ordering of consciousness, which is called the devil of the mind, it was invented by such a cool thinker of english origin, raymond lully, and he came up with just such a system ordering knowledge, ordering memory, ordering those facts that are contained, not like in Sherlock Holmess trash attic, exactly that like borhis in the endless labyrinth, where borhis has an essay dedicated specifically to this raymond luly, raymond lulys logical machine, that s what its called, i tried to figure it out, but i honestly couldnt figure out what it was there diagrams, but its really , just get straight into this matter, that is, but when, when you really begin to understand, friend, you understand how simple it is, how simple it is, that is, i use the palace of the mind, i have it, its quite strange, but there are also hooks there, they are mostly visual, that is, a certain image that refers to another image, to another image, to another image, just like, uh, in the concepts of borhis bondage, why is he even interested in bondage, yes, this is a very important topic, kabola constantly appears to him since he studied it, yes, yes, it is interesting to him, again, too, as an ordering tool. As a tool for studying the knowledge of language, that is, this very concept, the pentateuch of the torah, as one gigantic, extended and expanded name of god in all variants, and the tree and the tree of sefirod, and the tree of sefirod, which, in general, i really love this concept, because that it can be applied to any helical or, well, helical structure, from the dan to the dna helix, you know, it seems to me, on purpose came with a ring in the shape of a torah, the ring is beautiful, magical, that is, it is precisely the book of books, that is, the archetype of the book contained in the ring, borhis has, there is a game, and it seems to me that the game is also important for you, in your work this is can be traced, but this is a kind of play of meanings, a play of symbols, a play on words, a very important image , when the whole is not. More than its component parts, that is, when in one there is a multitude, in a certain unity, yes, but this unity is no more than each of the components parts, that is , of course, this is connected precisely with his love for small forms, precisely the fact that he must contain all these component parts, fit them into a very laconic form, and you know whats interesting is this concept of the game, which of course is constantly present in his mind, we see how he from this. Thats just how he takes his labyrinth, turns it upside down, and heres the inside out and hes like wow, how cool everything is, and we know writers who continue to follow the precepts of jorge our luis and who succeed, this is umberta eco, of course, what kind do they have . There were relations in general, that is , they were somehow connected in real life, i dont know if they were connected in real life, but they knew each other without a doubt, that is, without a doubt they knew. And you see, here it turns out to be an absolutely wonderful writers greeting, i adore umbert eco for this, that he is in the name of rose, he has this monstrous blind villain, the librarian, the monk jorge, who denies existence and the right to exist, aristotles books on comedy , because of what is happening, you think that this is a written character, a clear hint, yes rorjas library, then we understand that in this way umberto eco takes off his beautiful italian hat and says hello to borchis, because here, of course, behind borchis is his character overoes, who in medieval cordoba writes a treatise and he encounters an arab doctor , teacher, philosopher, he is faced with the aristotelian concepts of tragedy and comedy and he does not understand them, poor fellow, uhhuh, that is, in general, all the searches hinted that. He has no sense of humor, no, i think that hes just in such a crooked way, he just showed that he really appreciates borhis acting, and that thus, in general, overoes, whom borhis sees in the mirror in which he continues to believe, he will at some point understand what comedy is, but in the monastery from bert eco, the Library Burns down, burns down and the manuscript, the monk orhi himself burns down, well, thats a separate story, if the world is a library, then our work there is probably a manuscript , we dont know whether this will become a book, whether it will be included in myrrh. The library, yes, these manuscripts are burning, i, i am like a convinced neoplatanian, i think that the manuscripts are burning, but , of course, shadows remain on the walls of the cave, that is , our work is for eternity, and the manuscripts are burning, no matter what woland says in bulgakov, well , lets listen to the song the manuscript mill. Now is the time of fire, dont let me in, im definitely rusty, im a scat for 3,000 years, who hasnt written poetry, but that invisible one is waiting, carefully, like a cat, touching the milk, oh, thats it, a night double, he leaned towards the lamp, according to my strictures, walks with my log. Beast, im keeping this sacrifice to the fire until the door closes, the inscriptions are burning, they didnt tell you, but they its true what they say, and dont change it back to shak, oh my friends, oh my enemies, how beautiful it is to cut veins with a pen, glacier inked silver, manuscripts dont burn, theyre still burning, you should have seen this act, manuscripts are burning, they didnt tell you, but they really say it, and dont let us take a step back , oh my friends, oh my enemies, how beautifully they burn, manuscripts burn, and beloved ones, yes they burn gloriously, like 1000 ripe pomegranates, oh my friends. Oh, my enemies, how beautifully they burn, handwritten by a cigar, this podcast is a must read, i am glad, my guest is natalia ushey, musician, lead singer of the melnitsa group, candidate of philological sciences, we are talking about jorge luis borgis, you know, borgis, he , in my opinion, works as a collagist, that is, he takes some of these scraps of short forms, he knows very well mythology, has an Excellent Knowledge of a variety of plots. It is clear that the man read all his life, but he did not have an active life, his whole life was spent in books, yes, but he was actually the director of the national library, yes, that is, he is a professional librarian, a great librarian, you can you see, he is my Archetypal Library , it seems to me that he gave birth to a lot of waves after himself in pop culture, in popular culture, that is , it would seem that he is a lot, eco, who succeeds, yes, he has this game , it works because you can fold a Patchwork Quilt until you lose your pulse, but until you have some kind of magic thread, it will not become magical, it will not become a flying carpet, that is, lets say, paolo quelho, who can be considered the epigone of borhis, he doesnt succeed at all, listen, he even took the title of a story by the very famous aleph, and wrote a novel like this. Yes, well, this is epigonism, in the worst sense, ill be honest, but you know, i read this novel by paula alev, because it mentions my friend, in general, on this trip to russia he meets a girl as a prototype, which was mine friend, so i had to read it, although i dont really like kaeli, but i was attentive, it turned out that this alif, which he describes as a state in which he falls into the past, is what im talking about papalo says, yes, im reading here. The original source, borhiss own story, where everything is much more complicated, that is, this is a man who finds himself at the point where all time lines converge, it is much more complicated, it is kabbalistic, and here you understand, we can say that borhis is a writer, creator, who exists in a fourdimensional world, its interesting that he not only has our three dimensions, but he also has time, that is. He operates with time here and there, which is why he has this intersection of temporary paths, there is a mention of this chinese descendant of the author of the labyrinth, he comes to this doctor, a sinologist, who studies the legacy of his greatgrandfather, it turns out that the book and the labyrinth are one and the same thing, yes, that is, he created labyrinths and created a book , it turned out that they are one and the same. And its very interesting there, this doctor asks him a question, and he asks, this chinese, and this descendant, which one . Words in a charade should not be mentioned in a charade, in a charade about chess the word chess should not be mentioned, and he says, i found the key to the labyrinth of your greatgrandfather, that the word time is not mentioned there, this means that the entire labyrinth is dedicated to time and its various layers, that is, there is actually this key there, orchis wrote to his, yes, that is, its just like the tetragramaton on the golems forehead , yes, for the golem to work, he talks about this in the essable in the lecture about kable , so that the golem. He must have the correctly chosen word, and if, accordingly, the tzaddik erases one of the letters of this word from the golem solb and it will turn to another, like the word emet, truth turns into met, that is, death, and the golem crumbles into dust , that is, control over the golem is also in the right word and the right letters, it is this opportunity to work with letters back and forth, that is, write, erase, write, erase. This is some absolutely amazing, limitless control over dead matter that the jewish one gains, it seems to me that for borhis the text is living matter, yes , yes, of course, of course, and by no means static, constantly changing, because the interpretation of the text, even though its lettering, the image may be fixed, but the interpretation of the text will be different. In different centuries, superstructures are now happening for us, that we are from the heights of our welleducated cordovi sarabs, and from the heights of postmodernity, that is, we have a third, fourth, sixth superstructure, all these additional meanings, additional emotions that we do not put only in relation to the text, but in relation to the author who wrote, right here this one postmodern, and just get the next steps in one of the stairs, the labyrinth. Borgis, it seems to me, influenced costaneda, because in general the form itself, you know, i want to mention that, when borgis started working, it was an innovative form, what in cinema is called mocumentary, that is, it is a documentary film, but it is completely imitated, that is, in fact, it is an artistically created space that imitates documentary, this documentary that borhis imitates, absolutely magnificently, yes, that is, we do not we understand whether this really happened. His consciousness, we dont understand this, but its great and not every story has, there are comments, from these comments you dont understand, really, he came up with all this, or yes, or he really tells the stories of his own life, slightly flavored here with this magic of time, yes, yes, well, costaneda has this form of documentary, and conversations with orhal, in fact, recently, the philosophy of indiu orchl, and there is a lot of mention of such an image as mirrors, that orchl loves space, in in which there are many mirrors, and the mirror is a very important theme for borhis, that is , even in a labyrinth, a person eventually comes to a mirror, that is, if he goes through a labyrinth, he comes to a mirror. Meets himself and an overoste, which looks in the mirror and disappears, and maybe even godolqueer has disappeared, thats all, as if, when he begins to understand the essence of things, he disappears from the mirror, tell me, natasha, what do you think, here the fact that borhis went blind during his life, it is clear that he read a lot and he even he himself writes that i didnt actually live, yes, i dont know what was happening there in my country, because i spent all my time in the library, i spent all my time in books, but tell me, this is the fact that a person goes blind, but finds himself in this world of darkness, that is, this is some kind of forced disability, thats what you think, did this influence borhis, because i have a feeling that his works have become stronger, which he wrote already in the seventies, there they became more lyrical and specifically introverted, more polished directly, he works in a short form, but he has very deep details, that is, for example, he writes that a man who is still approaching the sea, he has yet. Seen this sea, but this sea is already in his blood splashing, this is a very accurate observation, here is the image of the sea, and the notorious platonic shadow , that is, you understand, a blind man, he has direct access to platos cave with shadows, yes, he does not work with the visual, he already works with archetypes, with ideas, with eides, and things, images of concepts, he works directly, and lets talk more about this babylonian library, as you imagine it and. In this world, he is a librarian, he is a systematizer, or he is a reader, or as you see it, that is, this world of hexagonal shelves, describe it as you see it you feel, you understand, a hexagon, a hexagon is the hundredth, that is, its. Such a hive, thats why i have bees in my ears today, this too, this is also not without reason, youre all in signs, im all in signs, what are you doing, of course, if we talk about orchis, then we need to operate with its tools, that is, operate with signs, yeah, so of course, im all about signs, essentially babylon, it has this babylonian library, its really a giant hive, that is, i can imagine that, just like bees, there is an extremely complex hierarchy of creatures, that is, in. In the world of borhiss library, there must also exist a completely phantasmogorical hierarchy, and i think that he is first and foremost a reader, an enthusiastic reader, who rushes through these honeycombs, from hexagon to hexagon, and finds something, Something Interesting for himself and it seems to me that for in order to become a librarian in the babylonian library, you need to go through a very long way , you need to go through initiation, starting with this , yes, you need to enter some kind of liminal. Phase, yes, go through initiation, that is, find this notorious tetragramaton or at least its semblance, that is, jump to another stage, uh, development, then in front of you these hexagons will be ordered, open up and become permeable, borhis in a story, well, i dont even know, its probably an essay, or maybe a story, four cycles, and hes just trying to systematize, perhaps, all his knowledge, endless, he cites the theory that there are only four plots in World Literature and we all repeat them endlessly, this is the plot of the capture of a fortress, and well , for example, the iliad, and the return home, well, an example also the classic odysseus, who returns to ithaca, and the search, this is probably a broader concept, but he gives an example of a bird, murg, who is at the same time many birds and one bird that contains this many, in general this is also an image god yes to to which, any, ancient plots, well, ancient epic literature, travel is all just a search, and the suicide of god, yes, the sacrifice of god, sacrifice what we can see in the bible, and in narnia and there, well, in general many, any indueuropean myths, yes, that is, like a horse sacrifice , that is. The ashwadha ritual, which accompanies the ascension of a king to the throne, that is, the sacrifice of a divine being this is exactly the most initiatory thing, of all these wandering stories that remind a leap to a new level is a sacrifice of god, yeah, here again this one, as he is called abenhakan in his small labyrinth, the fact that the killer of abenhakan becomes abenhakan himself, yes, that is, he kills this king. The one who was killed, he was actually the creator of this whole murder by an imitator, that is , borhis repeats it very often and its like an initiation thought out and inflected by the agent himself, that is, he sacrifices himself, this its also such a unique thing, but its like hanging yourself on on yasin, well, again, this is a wandering plot, so they wanted to stay away from scandinavian studies, this podcast is a must read, im agliadnikova, my guest is natalya oshey, musician, lead singer of the melnitsa group, candidate of feloological sciences, we re talking about jorge louise borgis. Natasha, as for borhis personal life, i was very touched by ulrics story, and from the book of sand from the collection the book of sand, where he meets a woman, they spend only one night together, there is also an obvious allusion to mythology, there is a hero name is sigurt, yes, he is a siegfid, that is, this all relates to scandinavian mythology, and the heroines name is ulrika, but on the one hand it looks simple, like people who met in a hotel, spent the night together, and the next morning separated forever, but this one here is one stand, and and but borhis presents it as such a failure into some other world, as if this meeting was very important, and it seems very romantic to me, mirrors also play the role there. Well, now we, i say, now we still couldnt resist scandinavian studies, because precisely the fact that his hero is siegfried, dash sigurt this is very important, because of course borhis , with his amazing erudition, he knew what it meant for a scandinavian hero, some kind of irresistible, not predetermined meeting with a woman, because for the scandinavians, in general, in mythology, a woman is fate, a woman. Capable of changing fate, so its this mysterious ulrika who meets with sigurd, she makes him look at himself in a completely different way sides. Precisely that is, this is a kind of ananka, you know, which is through a tiny death, because initiation is always a small death, an imitation of death, it forces him to move to another level, that is, here i really love borhis so much in such aspects as an indoeuropeanist , because, of course, he is a bearer of indoeuropean culture, and yes, yes, yes, and he feels these indoeuropean mythological cliches very subtly. Maybe not even always consciously, of course, because it just mine, you know, when i see this kings sacrifice, this womans fate, i think, youre my good one, how nice, miamor, miquerido, lets talk about his personal life, hes been around all his life, one might say lonely, that is, there are some women, i see dedication to women in different stories, different women, that is , there were women, they inspired, but basically , yes, he lived his life rather with his family, there with his mother, especially since he was blind. But at the end of life, after the death of mother, when mother let go, yes, this freudian story , he married his literary secretary, some beautiful girl, thats what you think, his relationships with women are so strange, they were somehow reflected in his prose, how can i tell you, he. In my opinion, not a love author at all, no, he is not a love author at all, that is, for him, rather, all the women in prose, well, there in the same aleph, yes, this is his beloved, she is already dead by the beginning, beatrice, yes, beatrice, this is viterbo, that is, in principle, he has women in his stories, they appear as ideas rather, oh, this is very interesting, yes, that is, this is exactly this archetype, a dead lover, this beatrice, with some of her countless past lovers, or this ulrika, and the woman fate who guides the hero through initiation, that is, to me it seems that everything is feminine, i would say. His female characters seem to be not endowed with special emotionality, but endowed with power , but endowed with power, endowed with a function, yes, endowed with a temporary, function, as it were, which is obliged to lead the hero to that point in time, space in which borhis wants to see this hero, he never received the nobel prize, this is very disappointing, i thought that he was nominated 25 times, almost too many times, although i also love marquez very much, yes, but i like borhis precisely because he gave birth to so many , that is, he seems to be a quiet librarian, so, you know , quietly, quietly, but he introduced very, very many concepts and then introduced them into popular culture, because i read him, i see him and his chronicles the windup bird where people fail. To iran during the revolution and they are saved by the fact that they find themselves in some magical slice of time, another, and they do some rituals, eat black food there, in general, borhis has this, he sets some programs like quantity, i m reading a giant one right now absolutely a novel and alan moore also has, you know, this is exactly the system, the principle of the inside out, the principle of mirrors, and the principle of traveling back and forth in time, that is , in essence, jerusalem is a deconstruction of an english family saga, such a classic one family saga, but we each chapter, it takes place in its own time, it is not linear, and periodically due to penetration into the conventional underbelly of the city of northampton. Characters of the same family from different times have the opportunity to meet each other and this, of course , is just such borhisianism, here it is stretched out into a book that is called longer than the bible, that is, of course, i would cut this jerusalem in half, but its cool these four principles of fourdimensional space, where time is the most fascinating scale, allan introduces very fascinating, i have a question for you as a linguist, its really funny, but what is there in it, here is borhis, he somehow entered the life of a russian person, with this joke he went overboard, what do you think borhis got up to . , borhis has gone overboard, well, youre a linguist, i dont know who else to ask, but it seems to me that you may have some kind of answer to this question, for some reason borhis remained in the layer of language, such, well, because , because, because, in principle, the very name borhis in russian. Evokes some kind of inner sisidore of seville with folk etymologies, you know, this is the root boron, that is, i take it and so on, i really want to continue to lagize it with this, that is, there are such unfortunate surnames that. On the contrary, successful ones appeal to folk etymology with you can play with them again, you understand, he again penetrated into the linguistic game, he was still a magician, yes, yes, well, of course, of course, that is, the fact that even the authors surname is fixed in the body of another language, in tissue of another tongue, starts there spreading like some beautiful noxious weed of amazing argentine origin, so it begins to sprout in the fabric of the labyrinth of the russian language already, well, you see . How interesting we found with you, what a move, linguistic, really, something that explains something about borhis and his immortality of his games of the mind, yes, he is immortal, because he is constantly repeated in the works of other people, yes, yes, that is, his platos shadows continue to play on the walls of the cave, continues to live, yes, the labyrinth continues to live, it is endless, recursion mirrors are endless, borgis is alive, cool, natasha, thank you for the interesting conversation, i m very much. Jorge luiss borgis, very unusual, thank you for inviting me, i really like to talk about books, well invite you again, this was a mustsee podcast reading, yaglaya batnikova, my guest was natalya ushey, musician, candidate of philological sciences, soloist. And the mill, also known as hilovisa. Thank you you can find all episodes of the podcast as a mustread on the channel one website 1tv. Ru. Hello, this is the podcast psyche and us we continue to disassemble human destinies by bones, molecules by atoms , looking for the right development strategy, or simply trying to understand how to live happily. My cohost, clinical psychologist, candidate of psychological sciences, mikhail horrs, is a true master of this art. Well, our hero today came to us with a problem that, it seems to me, will resonate in the hearts of many girls, and men, too. Alena does not know how to part with her lovers, alena does not know how to throw traumatic, painful relationship, thats why she came to us, hello, alyana, hello, tell me your story, you just dont know how to part with any lovers, or some one hurt you so painfully that you cant get this one out thorn, there were two of them, the first was my husband, with whom we separated 7 years ago, i had very difficult separations and i could not forget him for 3 years, from him. I still have three children, literally a little over 7 months ago we also broke up with a young man, and having met for more than a year, i still cant forget, although they say time heals , well, to be honest, i can hardly imagine how you can forget the person from whom you have three children, but this is simply impossible if you are raising these three children, you are raising these boys, girls, you have boys or girls, and you have three boys, you probably see in them. Well, usually by the word forget they mean not to suffer, not to suffer, not to constantly think, thats suffering, i m not what you want to forget and just like that cross out this part of your life, a free minute appears, i start to think about this person, and what are you starting to think about this person, i just want before michael starts to heal you, so to speak, or show you a strategy for how to get out of the situation, i want to at such an everyday level it is easy to understand what is happening to you. Well, that is, youre crying, im crying, im thinking whats wrong with me, im starting to delve into myself, now, but why is something wrong with you, i dont know, ive always been good to everyone, i i tried to be good for them, made many concessions , but can you give an example, what does it mean, i tried to be good and made concessions, the most typical thing is when i lived with my husband, i know that he comes late in the evening, all the household responsibilities i took it upon myself, but then i was on maternity leave, no matter how tired i was with three children , i cooked him a hot dinner, he ate and went to bed, thank you, he told you he wanted to, thank you, he said, sometimes he said, sometimes not,