Bering island. Accompanying the holy patriarch, but when would i end up on beriga island, but never. We continue, this podcast is the life of the wonderful, with you i am, its leading writer alexey varlamov, my guest is vladimir romanovich ligoida, professor mgemo, editorinchief of the foma magazine, chairman of the senodal department for interaction between church and society. But in general, this world of the church is quite closed for most people. Not very clear, well, you can remember the wonderful book of archimandrite tikhon, but not the holy saints, which in many ways, yes, thanks to its circulation and its it opened up the fascination of people, yes, by translating it into many foreign languages, it opened up the world of the church a little to people, but still, historically in russia it turned out this way , yes, that society lives by its own laws, the church lives by its own laws, literature by some other laws lives by its own law, but the dialogue between them does not always go well, so. What is your feeling from this world of the church, what is it like . Well, you know , of course, i had very little encounter with the Church Bureaucracy until the moment when i started working in the church, and i would say that rather the word bureaucrat, which for me in 2009 was on the verge of such an abusive disdain, for example, i clearly understand now that a healthy , highquality bureaucracy is very important, in the state, in the church, anywhere, i think i understand. Limits, i understand, so to speak, what is possible through bureaucratic means, well, i dont understand everything, but somewhere, yes , what can be achieved, what cannot be achieved, and at the same time i cannot share the opinion of people who know these very bureaucrats from the outside, that these church bureaucrats, they are almost there in general they dont read prayers and dont pray and so on, im not talking about the holy patriarch there, because its enough to visit the altar once, when the patriarch is praying, so that all the questions you have, yes. If there were any, they will immediately disappear , but its just that many people with whom ive been working for these years , i feel them completely differently, of course, and even publicly famous people, individuals whose behavior caused, i would say, justified questions from society, i had these questions, and we were dealing with complex internal discussions, i probably have the feeling that people are also, you know, how there is one story, one very entrepreneur this one, well, from the forbes list, in short, they brought him to the deveyevsky monastery, so he goes for the first time, so he goes, goes and he is silent, they show him a ditch there, there is Something Else there, and he is silent all the time, several hours have passed, he says, well, he was so silent, he says, they are people too, and you have the feeling that the church still has its own and slightly different history than the state, and after all, if we remember, as if in chronology , then the relations were very different over there, how many millennia there, and the baptism of russia, so if there is, well, a conflict is not a conflict, but if we say, the church has its own interests, its own goals, the state has its own tasks, then what choice will you make, because i understand that you are a statist at the same time, well, how are you solving this issue for yourself, you know, i can have a few of these here before answer a question not to gain time, but just a few important points, the church and the state really have different histories, including in the history of our country, but they have never existed one without the other, yes, and i think that they cannot and will not be able to exist one without the other, and the second important point, if you take the 100year history of the Russian Church, it has never really been as free from the state as it is today, this does not mean that there are not some kind of mutual relations, very difficult, sometimes, something is based there on some personal some contacts, some system. Relationship with the russian state, then look at the history of the Russian Church in such an opportunity to make decisions independently the church has never had its own internal life, now to your question, here i will simply refer, here i already have a person in office, there is a basis social concept of the Russian Orthodox church, and where it is clearly stated that if the state forces a believer to do something that contradicts his faith and what is said in the gospel, then he can or should now i dont remember the exact wording, to express disagreement with this, yes, so i hope, firstly, i hope that. It wont happen, but if there is something that will put me in a situation of choice, im in it i mean, i really like my good friend, probably a friend, the words are too binding, the polish director krzysztof zanusi, in one of the books, he says that i am grateful to god for never putting me in a situation of choosing between my faith and my family, you know, such an honest confession of a thinking person a person who lives a difficult life, so i very often. Return to this thought, because its easy to say, yes, i ve never been there, well, okay, so, from what you said, we can conclude that there is such a serious problem , as before the relationship between church and state, it is as acute, at least not now, as it was in previous times, and maybe it has been removed altogether to one degree or another, but what are the Serious Problems or problems from your point of view . There are challenges facing the Russian Orthodox church today, what are the pain points . Well, you know, it certainly depends on what level we are trying to answer this question, because if its somehow like this according to the hamburg account, then there are wonderful gospel words of christ, which in a sense, well the verdict of the church at any time, because everyone will know that you are my disciples, that you will have love for each other, this phrase, it seems to me, is the most important attempt to live according to the gospel comirton and the impossibility of this, we are somehow. Doomed to the impossibility of this, but here it is this gap between the gospel ideal and reality, it can be a little larger, smaller in different, well, in some, again , its not that its larger or smaller, but it can happen in different ways, yes, you said about complex relations with literature, yes, because we have there today, you love dostoevsky , its almost the same thing as asking, are you orthodox or not, yes, although we know the relationship between the official church and Fyodor Mikhailovich developed very differently, but i think this is true for many today. Almost the author of the catechism, but its just these peculiarities of time, i think that in trying to solve this global problem, it is very important today to find some kind of balance between this pace of time, from which you cannot completely fall out, and i dont like this word, but it really apparently unprecedented, for civilization, that is, the way people live today, i think not, yes, from the point of view of the flow of information, technology, yes, on the other hand, i once came up with, excuse me, for such involuntary narcissism, i really like it, i once said that if the church does not keep up with the times, so much the worse for the time, so find some kind of balance between not running with your pants up, not running after this komsomol, so to speak, technological and so on, on the other hand, not looking here, well. A vicar from the mumbayumba tribe, yes, in a situation where you need to react, and this is probably difficult, lets talk a little now about missionary activity, look, maybe im wrong, but probably in the history of the Russian Church now is such a unique moment, because well when there was a prerevolutionary period, there was a synodal period and before there was missionary activity, but it was mainly aimed at other peoples there; in soviet times, for obvious reasons, there was practically no missionary activity. Now thats how interested the church is in having as many people as possible come to believe in it or, well, whoever walks and walks, they will be saved or not saved, in any case , here we are, we are responsible for these, yes, and let them live as they want, or the soul also hurts for them, in fact, lets move on to the magazine, which, it seems to me, in many ways serves as such a tool, an attempt to talk not only with people already here. With those who are churchgoers, but with those who are interested in who cares about this, what do you think about it . These are the words of the apostle paul, that for everyone i became everything in order to gain at least some , they are such a missionary imperative, yes, this is the position of a christian missionary, it has not changed, but historical circumstances can change, the legal field that you must take into account, yes because any the church, it correlates itself with the existing government, one way or another, it should not violate any legal provisions, fit into this legal field, there is this. Internal mission, in this sense , thomas, in many ways, probably became to engage in it at some point, when we had some kind of audience of our own, maybe small, but loyal, or it was changing, but we are with us, or we are together with the audience, rather, but there is, of course, external, i think that the church, of course, is not interested, but another thing is that the church, you know, how if you use the fashionable word kpi, then quantity has never been, of course, a source of wealth for the church, precisely because you said, many are called, few are chosen, but this is such a paradox, yes, church, this does not mean that one should not strive to preaching to everyone, but this means that there is no need to count, so to speak, over heads and determine by this some kind of success or failure, that everything that the church could do to the maximum was done by its founder, and what else, so to speak, our task is only to testify to this. Watch all episodes of the podcast lab project on the website of the First Channel 1tv. Ru. We continue, this is a podcast about the life of the wonderful , i am with you, its leading writer alexey varlamov, my guest is vladimirova, professor, editorinchief of the magazine foma, chairman of the senodal department for interaction between church and society. What do you think, is it necessary, for example, or is it possible in russia, a political party, well, this is how it happens in other countries, a christian one, i think, now , probably just in case, ill say that im saying this in a personal capacity, i think that today no, including, you know, there is such a general approach, i remember once metropolitan kiril, then the future his holiness patriarch, i was at some round table one of the party functionaries, i dont remember now which party, but he said that the church is conservative, our party is conservative, lets support us, he says , well, the party by definition, as they say now, im not quoting, but im trying to convey the idea, its part of it that works with part of society, and the church for everyone, therefore i understand that this is not the answer of a political scientist, someone will say that this does not interfere, there may still be some kind of christian democratic party, but just at the philistine level, and the difficulty will arise that he will say, but if there is a christian party, then all christians should support this party and so on further, this does not happen in the political world, and i think that in our time, which is not fully enlightened by the gospel, it will not be beneficial to serve, but will create additional points of tension in public life, and then the next question follows from this when are Ministers Church members, and there are priests, but from your point of view, whether they can go into politics, i dont know, there was a time when they were people s deputies, then, in my opinion, somehow this is what we have now, we have it now, here im not going to separate myself from the function that i am, we have a very specific ban on this, all kinds of statements on social networks, i dont know, its somewhere else, but their priests, its somehow receives an assessment from the church leadership, it is somehow regulated, they call someone there and say, well, father, you dont need to get involved in this matter, or vice versa, they call someone and say, here you need to speak out and support them. When there are local elections, Something Else, no, its more likely our interaction with the priests, who are present on social Networks Today and are quite active, we have hundreds of thousands of people there, millions of people, there is rather interaction here, including our department, as a specialized one , with such priests engaged in, as we say , internet mission, and we can ask them for something or or ask them to do something or not to do something, and they dont always listen to us, but we try, so to speak, to convince them, and to be in dialogue, but this does not apply to how. Statements, this can only apply in the sense that we ask them not make political statements, because there is still a definite opinion on this matter, that is, a certain discipline in this world exists, exists, but you understand how, in the Russian Church, in general in the entire Russian Orthodox church there are more than 40,000 clergy, in this sense we have of course quite free this is the situation, because i remember once, many years ago, a representative, some pr person in charge of one social network held a closed meeting with us. He says well, where does highquality Public Relations begin with the fact that a person is singled out who can speak on behalf of the organization, everyone else is prohibited, and even though we explain there that this is the position of the church, who can express in what cases , but we dont have a ban, and yet this is unimaginable in any state or business structure, yes, where only specially designated people can speak, a priest, he just cant deprive him of this pastoral component of his, which is presupposing. His entry into this space in one way or another, each of these 4000, well not everyone, many can understand this in their own way, and well, anything can happen here, and some explanations have to be given, i did a lot in my time and still do , now the truth is less, we talked with journalists, with editors and explained that if some priest said something, then there is no need to immediately to speak in the Russian Church, they decided or decided or believe, just as there is no need to overwhelm us with these questions, what is the official position of the church on gmos, or homeopathy, why the church should have an official position on homeopathy. Or or gmos, why dont we admit that among millions of believers, people can have different attitudes to this, there is no dogmatic meaning in these relations, but i mentioned to the person, yes, well, im really interested, since this is what it is, well , it was informational, there was a lot of noise around this event, this is what you think about this story, here you personally, i had an interview on one respected radio, a wonderful colleague, he began with the fact that society was split over the transfer of the trinity to the church, this is what you think about this , and with your permission i will simply repeat, because i think this is very important, firstly, society has split only in the media, there is no split in society about this, to say that our society has split into two groups, one behind , the other is against it, and secondly, he too in my opinion, he added that the fact that this is a cultural catastrophe or a problem, well, Something Like that, well, at least these assessments were made not by him or by others, but i just the day before spoke with one young man of college age, and we this topic was accidentally brought up to him, and not only did he not know that the trinity had been handed over to the church, he did not know that such an icon existed, when i asked who Andrei Rublev was, he said a tennis player, so this is, here in connection, what i think about the trinity, that the cultural disaster today is that we have people, young people, maybe not so much, who dont know that it exists , this is the problem, and not the fact of transfer to the church and its possible, everything will be fine with storage and the church for sure. There is no task to store the icon so that it is so to say, it was poorly preserved, well, on the one hand, this is understandable, on the other hand, why did this happen right now, not 5 years ago and also, well, if there are no hard causeandeffect relationships, then i really dont want to put on the costume of my colleagues, political scientists, whose task, well, i of course, im being ironic, explaining something, or predicting it, then when it doesnt come true, explaining why it didnt come true, thats not what im doing. When i know exactly the rationale behind these decisions, then i can tell you that in 100 of cases , even what can be called more or less highquality analytics coincides with reality, simply because the analyst operates with logical constructs, well, plus he knows the context, the situation, yes, but if he does not know the real reasons for the decision or the real situation, then he still rationally constructs reality, but life as a reality does not lend itself to rational construction, life as a theory , it lends itself, but as a reality it does not, that is , when you read such secular journalism that writes on church topics, and you read it with such an outfit, right this is wrong, they guessed right, they didnt guess right, not only secular , there are even now people who are professionally involved in some things, but lets say, religious scholars of some kind, religious scholars, people who are, i dont know, oppositionists some orthodox christians, so i read their explanations of some events that are happening now, i understand that you guys didnt get it, well, its not at all what you think, but do you speak out in such cases, or what . Well, it depends on each specific case, that is, here, well, you personally make the decision to speak. Not to perform . No, not always, there are situations when the patriarch says that this needs to be given, yes, or asks, or says, this needs to be given, i can say that maybe its not necessary, although i must admit that there were situations when i tried, thats how it seems to me, well, after all, i feel responsible, im trying maybe to say that your lordship may not be needed, but every time im then convinced that the patriarch makes the right decision, that is, you in Constant Contact with the holy one, yes, but at the same time i consider it constantly wrong. Pull, because why am i needed then, if i start calling the patriarch on any issue, well then he can do without me, of course, its understandable, so you started talking about this young man, and for whom Andrei Rublev is a tanesist, well, look, im even interested in returning to your teaching activity, what is most important for you, it is obvious that not all of your students are believers, maybe even the opposite is true, but for you it is important, in his lectures, he seemed to emphasize his affiliation with the church and try to drag students to his side. No, i dont do this on purpose, moreover, in this sense, well, i somehow think that it is necessary, that is , your church is separated from it, well, no, not quite like that, i remember that after all, Department Schools from the church, but at one time, this did not in any way follow even from the separation of church and state, maybe directly, but i still have, within the framework of the courses that i teach, and there are. Related to religion, but not with orthodoxy and not with orthodox theology, namely cultural studies, i, as a culturologist, as a teacher of philosophical disciplines, proceed from this, i never hide my views and in general i think that it is impossible, but for some reason this does not bother me very much, especially not student atheism worries me because it its almost never hardwon, but when we touch on atheism, i especially if the guys ask, i always say that this is often the case, we know this, from the history of philosophy, yes, in general, human thought, that very often atheism is like this deeply thought out, this is a tragic world. Vision, and it seems to me that it cannot be any other way, because in fact, this is the solution to the main question , and death, finitude, there with being, nonbeing, yes, thats why i understand that the students worldview is not complete , so by the way, to say, you know all these sociological surveys, there are fewer young people there, i dont see a problem in this at all, because i know, i saw how students change from the first year to the fourth, and they began to experience what in the first it seemed to them that the experience was generally unworthy, although the interest in religious issues, religious and philosophical, is consistently high, and im teaching in 1995, and i dont see that changing, that is, it seems to you that all these people dont exist generations, whatever they are called, they exist, they change, of course, it seems to me that a lot has changed for the better among the current freshmen there compared to the freshmen 1015 years ago, although something has not changed, maybe it was grafted into me in the soviet way, but now they say that here we are lost your youth . We raised her wrong, we need to change the education system, everything needs to be changed, it turns out that nothing needs to be changed, no , the education system, of course, needs to be changed , and im trying to think a lot about it and even say something, but this is education in general, it seems to me that everything in the world is in crisis, it has reached such dead ends that it cannot get out, but the guys themselves have even become, from the point of view of the perception of religious topics, it seems to me that they are much more open today, they are still very. They know little, sometimes they demonstrate some kind of monstrous general cultural ignorance, but this is a characteristic of how they were prepared, yes, how they were taught, uh, what they did for the last 2 years at school, and we know that they were preparing to take three disciplines, eg and nothing else did, yes, the vast majority, with the exception of the olympiad participants, who did not do this, but simply tried to win the olympiads, there is some kind of openness, it is, well, i just have a simple example of course , sociology may not be of very high quality, but i for about five years now ive been teaching undergraduates a course on political communication of the modern church, and even though this is a course about the modern church , i still have to start from the stove, because there is no knowledge, there were no courses in the history of religion, and although they come to us from different universities magistrate, just like anywhere else, like anyone, but from year to year, each new set shows me more and more, maybe i m so lucky, interest in the topic, you said, Education Needs to change education in a crisis, and what would you all so they have begun to change education in the current russian one . It just seems to me that this is a very correct idea, aleksandovich fodeev, and he is now already saying that we must, if we are at a turning point, especially, yes, we must set some kind of largescale task, this is the preparation approach a person with competences there, he is so shallow, yes, he is so out of step with either the time or the problems that exist, we have so forgotten that a person is a seeker of truth, goodness, beauty and good, and this should be manifested in education, it seems to me , this is a return to education, an understanding of the scale, the goal, that a person, a person being educated, education is training plus upbringing, if we removed education, its just training, its no longer education, yes, that education is a person, actually a person as such, because uneducated, not a person, this is the task that just needs to be proclaimed, and there is no need to be afraid to say that knowledge is a value in itself, yes, not any, but knowledge as a worldview category, not information , not a collection of information, so we must set this task, with fodeev, when we talked, he said a very correct thing, that after all , this is not the task of bureaucratic structures, that society should discuss this and put some things into words. Ideals, which then, yes, some goals, which then the bureaucratic structures will ensure movement in this direction, not in the sense of excluding them from the process, but still you cannot demand from the ministry that they now take these concepts and lay them out for us , it seems to me that we dont talk about this very much, well, you and i talked about it today, which is very cool, thank you very much for this conversation, i know that this year you turned 50 years old, and you celebrated your anniversary, god bless you, everything the very best, in a magazine that i really like to read, i wish you all the best in your work, in all its manifestations, thank you very much, it was a podcast of life wonderful, it was hosted by the writer alexey varlamov, our guest was vladimir romanovich legoida , chairman of the Synodal Department for interaction between church and society, editorinchief of the thomas magazine, professor mgemo. My. Greetings, dear friends, the melody of my life podcast is on air, today my guest is a wonderful artist, our friendship timetested, we have known each other for a long time, so i would like to greet dmitry kharasyan, peoples artist of russia , and immediately, to break all the stereotypes, even those in my head, about the podcast melody of my life, the first question, dim, is this one, and what melody can explain your highest level of patience, your vaccination against star fever, because you are, perhaps, from our generation, who is now about sixty, a little more or less, hello , how did you manage, you were the first to experience heres a nationwide love, especially since at the age of 1617 years old, all the girls are around everything, and you are a normal person, as long as i have known you, when you didnt have this, yes you had everything, and this too. Copper tubes, okay, as you know, oddly enough, i will sing a song just from the first film, which was called a joke, the First Teacher is vladimir valentinovich, he is my creator, and he determined my future fate, of course, this song is not so often performed, but i really love it, its basically about that. Balad about the first rain, when the first drops fall rain, and thunder rolls from the cloud onto the roof, the preholiday trembling hits my city, and i hear it in my soul and skin, the rains at the beginning of summer are like poetry, they elevate us to their origins, and it seems, since the streets are quiet, everything in our souls is peaceful and high, and the smooth surface of the window glass touches, the smells of the boulevards become sharper, the buildings look in the mirrors, sidewalks deep like rivers, in the mixture of water and height, you walk calmly, slowly, without hiding, and it seems that since the streets. Are honest, honest we all have soul and conscience, now the rain beats in cables, now in streams, now a dot, now a dash knocks on the frame, and it seems that everything you are waiting for, valera, meetings send a telegram, so the meeting took place, now our telegram has reached the addressee. Guests dmitry kharatyan, dim, well, its very nice that alexey dedurov, alexander, flerrkovsky wrote this song , vladimir minshov is my creator, this is the main person in my life who gave me destiny, gave us such pictures, five films in total, but which ones, well, everything, all one to one, i didnt say, our childhood is so pioneering, and such films, and music like this. Yes, im from krasnogorsk, i wasnt born in almalyk , near tashkent, in uzbekistan, but then my family moved to lipetsk, then to krasnogorsk, and from the age of 3 ive been living in krasnogororsk to this day, but dmitry kharatyan, not even a teenager, and also a boy, lets call it that, and some kind of melody , from childhood, pioneer camp meteor, moscow region, nepetsino, which means its such a summer club, long wooden benches and of course, the elusive vigilante danka is my hero, by the way, later when already grown up already acted in films victor kosykh, yes victor kosykh, yes, you say there are guys earlier than me who started acting in films, you see , absolutely yes, yes, yes, and they confused me with victor kosykh because they saw them somewhere, they say, here you are , we, you were acting, he says, yes, i didnt well go to the city and hes probably 10 years older there, well, i ll be older, well, the green vans are not there in the image, he echoes very closely, hes also blond, thats true, hes, well, in short, the civil war. Yes, catch the avengers and this is, of course, a chase. Yes, tiredly forgotten, goals. Can be heard chat again the hooves are beating like a heart and we have no rest burn but live chase chase chase chase in hot blood chase chase chase chase in hot blood, and yaan frenkel, and the poems of robert rozhdestvensky, and you remember that frenkel. In the kiosayan episode of edmont, immortalize him and this one with an axe, or both an axer and a skrepach, too, in new adventures of the elusive, these are new, and a little later, goyko mitich with the indians, in my opinion, the same thing somewhere, this is absolutely such a heroic boyish absolutely unforgettable films, yes, on them we grew up watching these films, of course, attention, i was told that my name is valera, one of the characters is metelkin, who plays yes valerie yes yes yes, amazing, and ill tell you, now i understand that apparently, thats when this attitude to cinema was born, thats danka for of me is really the image that i wanted to strive for, and maybe later everything happened like this in my life, in the professional sense, yes, that these were the first such calls, signals from there, from the screen of our club in pioneer camp meteor, so i think that everything is not accidental, of course, thats where we come from, of course, and thats where my passion for cinema comes from, but then i loved cinema, and you see how it turned out that cinema came to me, and i walked into it, but this is the moment, i liked this as a child, well, in order for vladimir minshov to invite you, his majesty had to have an opportunity, and this is a song, this is a song, a guitar, in fact, i played a guy with a guitar, igor grushko is a guy with a guitar, this is probably the hero of that time, someone saw this, well, of course, i m a pioneer camp, im all from there , yes, a girl from a pioneer camp, i had an ensemble, the argonauts. Filming begins, they need guys who sing and play guitars, thats it , im waiting for you tomorrow at the kiev station, trolleybus 34 or i dont remember now, i got a pass for you, thats all, take your guitar , lets go, so i took the guitar and im still with this guitar, well, with the other one, of course , well, still with the music, with the guitar, and of course, i apparently convinced him, because he needed such a hero who knows, knows how to be obsessed with music, and by this time , by the age of fifteen, my main hobby was music, guitar, songs, so i woke up famous, and i woke up when the film came out, it came out on january 10, 1977, i was a normal, ordinary boy from the moscow region, a tenthgrader, but on january 11, i went out into the street, i realized that the world had changed in relation to me, i was the same, but they treated me differently , look, guy, he was filming it, but how are you butterflies . Yes, they sang it, but its not me a professional performer drank, drank for me, so i feel embarrassed. Well , i say, well, i sang something there myself, well, not everything, well, not everything, i also tell everyone that a good joke never gets old, she changes the author, and there, no, there was a song, ill tell you, which i actually sang myself, this is the first, so to speak , love, here is my hero, this is igor grushko, him, he actually came from novosibirsk to moscow, he was imprisoned at a desk with a girl who was all wrapped up, somehow painfully, but he didnt fall in love with, taya petrova, played by natasha vavilova, a beauty in which the whole country was in love with, this song, its all strange. So really, the day went in a circle, everyday, just an arrow gesture, invisible, brought the two of us together for a while, just sat down with you, by chance i, youre just a little sad, i just completely accidentally looked into your eyes, what god it still happens, if our eyes suddenly meet, that forever ends in us, that which