Nature. Your world is uniquely digitized, its beauty is easy, you change the landscape, sapafe, with a cup of coffee, dobiki is not a beach, you are back at the ball, then again on the ship, when will you come to me in yaroslavl, today madrid, tomorrow london and dubai, for myself business class, restaurants, tomorrow in paris, lunch already in moscow, for you in moscow the city on the neva is spreading, baptize perfection without. We hide the taste and i sing for you my provincial plus, so that i decide to approach you nat, invert events plus shopping crade, bought fashionable clothes, iphones not only memorized all the tiktok trends, the nampa ring and the capitals accent, in short, i started singing my content. Subscribers, a popular subject, heres a message from her, a direct message comes, like a businessman, youve been waiting for my visit , ive been watching you for a long time, im dreaming of making a fit, im flying out to you, im in a hurry to get to you, i want to hear your provincial blues, how come andrey got the point right , its a pleasure, comrade, to listen to you, thank you, and you know, theres another writer, stephen king, thats what he says, my thomas once made me happy, this is my son, he made me happy, he said, i want to be a saxophonist, needless to say, the next day he had the most expensive saxophone that i could find, and the next day he had the most brilliant teacher by recommendation, and after 3 months i said, you know what, give me your saxophone, we ll take it to a secondhand shop. Because if you were a saxophonist, son, i told him, you would sleep with your saxophone, thats how i wanted to be a writer, thats how i wrote on scraps, programs, bus tickets, i i wrote all the time, well, now im a writer, sleeps with a guitar, your son, probably sleeps, doesnt sleep, of course, after all, but the fact is that at every opportunity, he takes it and plays it, and theres his. Whether it was a repertoire or heard a song, he liked it, he can learn it in literally a couple of minutes and hes already playing , that is, its very cool, but he does it, im envious of it, very, very quickly, and thats why i think that this is exactly his, and let him do what he loves, but in mathematics he gets a c, and certainly not only in mathematics, its clear, comrades, before the last meeting we must ask. Varentsova to come up here on stage. Heres your mother, heres who the author is, so hello everyone. Liang, how good are you . Thank you, but you didnt want him to be this, an aluminum exporter . Its like this in our family, that is, a child should do what he loves, well, in principle, not only a child, like all of us, probably, are now doing what we love, but if, in fact, nikita immerses himself in this very music, and gets a c in mathematics, what we will do . Lets do what we love, why, lets say, be distracted by some other things, now the math teacher is watching, and the School Director is new. The best teacher, we love her, so get ready for the fact that they will call you on the blackboard for the whole quarter , you brought trouble, but nothing, but millions of our russian tv viewers now know you, so well see how it goes, dear friends, i wish you success in everything you do, thank you, it was a pleasure to see you, maybe you have a lesson too parents, this is how it should be with children, you just need to love your children and believe in them, in short, advice to you, comrades, and love, and now the last song, what is it about . About the summer, about how it ended, and i hope it will return again, but next year , this is the focus, gentlemen, in the summer, you know, it will now return constantly in the form of a podcast, anthropology, all of you. You can watch episodes of the lab podcast on the website of the First Channel 1tv. Ru. And the sun has not become shorter in the fall and i really like these starry nights. Ill make it up. From photos joint, a little funny, naive, but honest, asar smile, the wind in your hair, how can i survive in this moment , lets write the finale, the finale of this summer, the splashes of the fountain in the sun are warmed, benches in the park, routes without a goal, lets write the ending as we wanted together. Lets write the ending , about the heat all day long, about rain and puddles, about summer inside and about summer outside, about tears of laughter, about wet shorts, how should i choose . More precisely, the chords, how can i survive, all this first, so that a new song can be heard for you, i would go back there, but passwords are forgotten, lets write the finale, the finale in dolmajor, lets write the finale, the finale of this summer, splashes of the fountain, and the sun is warm, benches in the park, routes without a goal, lets write the finale, as i. Wanted, lets write the finale, the finale of this summer , fountain fountains, warmed in the sun, benches and parks, routes without a goal, lets write the finale, as we wanted together, lets write the ending, and the sun for autumn and has become shorter and i really like these starry nights, ill make an album of photos of them together, a little funny, naive , but honest. This podcast is a must read, im aglyan batnikova, today my guest is natalia ushey, musician, lead singer of the group melnitsa, and we are discussing the argentine writer jorge luis borgis, and his image of the world as in libraries. Natasha, hello, please tell me, somehow khilavisa, the melnitsa group, its probably associated with some kind of games, fantasies, maybe with lastelin of the rings, biowulf, irish sagas, then suddenly you choose theme of borhis, and it seems that this is unexpected, yes, but if you know you well, you are a candidate of philological sciences, a linguist in general, the worlds borhis, they contain. In general all possible plots and please tell us what you have in common with this writer, why do you love him . Ill tell you, yes, ill tell you why i chose this particular writer for our meeting, you know, if i had chosen some kind of scandinavian studies or celtic studies, i would speak here as a professional in this topic, i would include a lecturer like natalya andreevna, professor at the pulpit, now we ll talk about registers in irish sagas, blah blah blah, well, probably not very good interesting for a podcast about literature, so i decided that i probably want to be in this case not a specialist, not a teacher, but a professional reader, that is, this is what i personally am interested in reading, what . Makes me happy as a reader in literature, especially since, as you quite rightly noted, i am not a literary scholar, and especially not a spanish scholar, i am a linguist, therefore, just like in all medical systems, i say, hello, im natasha , i am a professional patient, today i want to be a professional reader, but borhis he himself was a professional reader, he somehow emphasizes this, in his essays, that his main role is the reader, this is close to me, because until the end of his life he is absolutely in love with the process of reading, this is very visible, even in those essays , which he recited when he was already completely blind , it is very clear how interested he is in general in the very creation of the text, the relationship between text and language, since borhis was a polyglot, he is terribly interested in precisely this babylonian confusion of languages, which can organize in the notorious hexagons of babylon. Somehow organize, or disorganize, you remember, he has an absolutely wonderful moment in one of the short stories, he remembers when the boys, when the books were closed for the night, he thought that the letters in them were scattering mix up, be very surprised, well, lets tell the viewer a little who borhis is, but in general terms , he is a writer who lived in argentina, wrote in spanish, although he knew many other languages, yes, he worked somewhere from the thirties to the eighties x century, he lived very a long, fruitful, great life for a writer, and despite the fact that he became blind during his life, in general, it would seem that this should have complicated his work, but no, he continued to work and created such Wonderful Worlds and images labyrinth or the world as a library. Well, its interesting that he worked from a small form, this is a man who has not written a single novel, although he was nominated many times for the nobel prize, i understand him, because i am also regularly asked, natalya, why dont you write rock opera, i say, you know, im not my topic, big form, big form, this is not my topic, that is, even if i take on such a thing, i will express everything i want to say within the first two numbers there arias of characters, and then ill get bored, ill give it all up, because borhis s prose is so rich, each story contains some terribly fascinating plot, even a detective story, a charade puzzle, they are terribly complex, these short stories of his, and here we must necessarily remember the writer whom borhis loved extremely, respected, this is of course edgar allend poe, well, yes, he relies heavily on poe, and also charades, yes, like the stolen letter and similar things, that is, borhis very much relies on poe, but he is about the deceased in your own labyrinth, when it turns out that the killer is, in fact, the murdered one, this viziersaid, his, well , these charades and puzzles, images are repeated, i even wanted to talk to you about this story, the garden of diverging paths, which is dedicated to the labyrinth probably like this the most powerful of his. And he is also in some way a detective story, because until the very last moment we dont understand, there is a murder, there is a murder there all the time, that is, murder is not what it seems, with him this plot often goes through, it seems to be detective related with the labyrinth, there with mirrors, yes, with the search for oneself, here its interesting that after reading this sat of forking paths, i finally understood why borhis works with small forms, i realized that he himself. Created this labyrinth from the text and here that is from of short, repeating, similar plots, he composed such countless numbers, he composes a recursion, and he places mirrors in his labyrinth, which ultimately make it endless, this is such a Beautiful Image and it is so applicable to absolutely everything, we had a painting by maurice in our screensaver escher, well, its exactly the same thing, its just that escher is naturally visual, he does it in graphics. And in borhis this happens, here is escher, yes, he is really similar to the figurative world of borhis, so we him, yes, this one, this tape, exactly this is the moebius motif. Just judging by the fact that he uses this labyrinth, he places some kind of hooks in the labyrinth so that he himself does not get lost in this labyrinth, you know, he scatters crumbs, he scatters crumbs, yes, yes, yes, yes, that is, he uses the classical technique of renaissance philosophy is the nosiological technique. A technique for organizing consciousness, which is called the devil of the mind, it was invented by such a cool thinker of english origin, raymond lully, and he came up with this one system organizing knowledge, organizing memory, organizing those facts that are not contained like in Sherlock Holmess trash attic, just like borhis in an endless labyrinth, where each compartment has an essay dedicated specifically to this raymond lulu. Habits, to get straight into this matter, that is, but when, when you really, really suddenly begin to understand, you understand how simple it is, how simple it is, that is, i use the palace of the mind, i have it, its quite strange, but its also there hooks hooks, they are mainly visual, that is. An image that refers to another image, to another image, to another image, similar to uh, in borhiss concept of kabola, why is he even interested in bondage, yes, it is very an important topic, his kabola constantly appears, his son studied it, yes, yes, it is interesting to him, again, too, as a tool of ordering, as a tool for studying the knowledge of language, that is, this is exactly this concept, the pentateuch torahs as one giant, stretched and expanded in all variants of the name of god, and the tree, and the tree sephirod, and the tree sephirod, which, in general , i really love this concept, because it can be applied to any spiral or, well , spiral structure, from dantes circles of hell to the dna spiral, well, you know , it seems to me, she specially came with a ring in the shape of a torah. That is, it is precisely the book of books, that is, the archetype of the book, enclosed in a ring, borhis has, there is a game, and it seems to me that the game is also important for you, this can be seen in your work, but this is a kind of game of meanings, game symbols, play words, very an important image, when the whole is no more than its component parts, that is, when in one there is a multitude, in a certain unity, yes , but unity is no more than each of the component parts, that is, what you called, it is connected precisely with its love for small forms, precisely the fact that he must accommodate all these component parts, fit them into a very laconic form, and you know whats interesting is this concept of the game, which he, of course, always has, we see how he gets a kick out of it, just like him such a one takes his labyrinth of such a hoba, turns it over, and heres the wrong side, and hes like oops, like everything. Cool, and we know writers who further follow the behests of jorge our luis and who succeed, this is umberta eco, of course, and what kind of relationship did they have at all, that is, they were somehow connected in real life, since there is, i dont know if they were connected in real life, but they knew each other without a doubt, that is, without a doubt they knew, and you see, this turns out to be an absolutely wonderful writers greetings, i adore umbert eco for the fact that he is in the name roses. He has this monstrous blind villain librarian, monk jorge, who denies the existence and rights to exist of aristotles book on comedy, which is why it happens, you think that this character was written in a collection, a clear hint and a library, but if we dig further, we understand that in this way umberta eco takes off her beautiful italian hat and gives it to borgis. Because here, of course, behind borchus is his character overoes, who writes a treatise in medieval cordoba and he is faced, yes, an arab doctor, teacher, philosopher, he is faced precisely with the aristotelian concepts of tragedy and comedy and he does not understand them, poor fellow, uhhuh, that is, in general, everything tingled that borhis has no sense of humor, no, i i think that he just showed in such a crooked way that he really appreciates borhiss game, yeah, and that. Thus, in general, overoes, whom borhis sees in the mirror in which he continues to believe, he is in some kind of that moment he will understand what comedy is, but in the monastery of bert eco, the library burns, burns and manuscript, burns itself. On jorge, well, thats a separate story, but if the world is a library, then our work there is probably manuscripts for we dont know whether this will become a book, whether it will be included in the world library, but here we are these manuscripts are burning, natasha, i, as a convinced neoplatanian, believe that the manuscripts are burning, but of course shadows remain on the walls of the cave, that is, our work is for eternity, and the manuscripts are burning, no matter what woland says at bulgakov, well, lets listen handwrite the song. Mill, now is the time of fire, dont let me in, ill definitely a rusty ascetic, 3,000 years old, who has not written poetry. But that invisible one is waiting, carefully, like a cat, touching the milk, oh, the midnight double , he leaned close to the lamp, along my lines, my log, a shortlived beast walks, i preserve this sacrifice to the fire until it closes, the door, the manuscripts are burning, they didnt tell you, but they really say it, and dont change our minds back, oh my friends, oh my enemies, how beautiful they were with a pen, silver ink, the manuscripts dont burn, theyre still burning, you should have seen this act, the manuscripts are burning, they didnt tell you, but they its true what they say, and dont dare take a step back, oh my friends, oh my dears, how beautifully they burn, the inscriptions burn, and your loved ones, they speak beautifully, like a ripe pomegranate cracking, oh my friends, oh my enemies, how beautifully they are are burning. Handwriting, jackal, as it is written in the books, jackal. You wont win the war with nooses alone, but you wont get past you, you wont get by, now youre your fathers man in the sack, youre wrong, soldier , i went to the changara bastard with music, i was wounded there twice, and all the coopernia spit on your music, to centenary of alexander alov, running in saturday on the first, this podcast is a must read. I am glad, my guest is natalia ushey, musician, lead singer of the melnitsa group, candidate of philological sciences, we are talking about jorge luis borgis. You know, borhis, he, in my opinion, works as a collagist, that is, he takes some of these caresses of short forms, he has an Excellent Knowledge of mythology, an Excellent Knowledge of various subjects, it is clear that a person has been reading all his life, so he had no active life all his life. Took place in books, yes, but he was actually the director of the national libraries, yes, that is, he is a professional librarian, a great librarian, you can say this, he is my such archetypal library, it seems to me that he gave birth to many waves after himself in pop culture, in pop culture, that is, it would seem, but look, we again, they mentioned umbert eco, who succeeds, but he has this game, it works because you can do it until you lose your pulse. A caressing blanket, but until you have some kind of magic thread, it will not become magical, it will not become a flying carpet, that is, lets say paolo coelho, who can be considered the epigone of borhis, is from him. Listen, he even took the title of a story by the very famous aleph, and wrote such a novel, an epic novel, yes, yes , but this is epigonism, in the worst sense, to be honest, but you know, i read this novel by paula cailla alev, because he is mentioned there by my friend, in general, on this trip to russia, he meets a girl as a prototype, who was my friend, so i had to read it, although i dont really like it. I actually looked at him , it turned out that this alif, which he describes as a state in which he falls into the past, im talking about paul, but here im reading the original source, borhiss story itself, where everything is much more complicated, that is, this is a man who finds himself at the point where all time lines converge , this is much more complicated, it is kabbalistic, and here you understand, we can say that borhis is. A creator who exists in a fourdimensional world, that he not only has our three dimensions, but he also has time, that is he operates with time here and there, which is why he him, this here al in the story is an intersection of temporary diverging paths, this chinese descendant, the author of the labyrinth, is mentioned there, he comes to this doctor, a chinese, who. Created a book, it turned out that they are one and the same thing, and its very interesting there , this doctor asks him a question, and he asks this chinese , yes, this descendant, what word in the charade should not be mentioned in the charade, in in a charade about chess, the word chess should not be mentioned. That is, there is actually this key there, yes, then there is it just like the tetragrammaton on the golems forehead, yes, for the golem to work, he talks about this in the lecture about mares, for the golem to work, he must have the right word, and if accordingly, the kindergarten will be erased. Golem solba one of the letters of this word it will turn into another, like the word emet, truth turns into met, that is, death, and the golem crumbles into dust, that is, control over the golem is also in the right word and the right letters, it is this opportunity to work with letters back and forth, that is write, erase, write, erase, this is some absolutely amazing , unlimited control over dead matter that it gains, but it seems to me that for borhis the text is living matter, yes, yes, of course, of course, and in no way case, not static, constantly changing, because the interpretation of the text, even though its literal image may be fixed, but the interpretation of the text will be different in different centuries, for us now there are superstructures that we from the height of our welleducated cores with postmodern heights, arabs, yes, from the height of postmodernity, that is, we get a third, fourth, sixth superstructure, all these additional meanings, additional emotions that we invest not only in relation to the text, but in relation to the author who wrote, here this one is just postmodern, since tututututututututu, it just turns out to be the next steps in one of the stairs of the labyrinth, borhis, it seems to me that he influenced costaneda, because in general the form itself, you know, i want to. That when borhis started working, it was innovative form, what is called in cinema, that is, it is a documentary film, but it is completely imitated, that is, in fact , it is an artistically created space that imitates documentary, this documentary that borhis imitates, absolutely magnificently, yes, that is, we do not we understand whether this really happened, whether all these people who are talking really existed, maybe they are philosophers who are talking or is this a product of his consciousness, we. Dont understand it, but its great and for everyone there is a commentary to the story, there is a commentary, from these comments you dont understand, really, he came up with all this, or yes, or he really tells the stories of his own life, slightly flavored with this magic of time, yes, yes, well, costaneda has this form of documentary , yes, conversations with the magician itself, this form, he clearly seems to me to have drawn it from it, too, it seems, yes , it seems, you know, i, uh, recently read from orchl, the philosophy of indy orchl, and there is a lot of mention of such an image as mirrors, that orchl loves space , in which there are many mirrors. If he goes through a labyrinth, he comes to the mirror and meets himself, and the overgrowth, which looks in the mirror and disappears, and maybe even the dolquiver has disappeared, that s all, as if when he begins to understand the essence of things, he disappears from the mirror, say natasha, what do you think, that borhis became blind during his life, it is clear that he read a lot and he even writes himself that i actually did not live, yes, i dont know what happened there in my country because i spent all my time in the library, i spent all my time time is in the books, but tell me, this is the fact that a person becomes blind and finds himself in this world of darkness, that is, this is some kind of forced disability, do you think this influenced borhis, because i have a feeling that they have become stronger his things, which he wrote already in the seventies, there they became more lyrical and exactly how he works in a short form, but he has very deep details, that is, for example, he writes that a person who still approaches sea, he has not yet seen this sea, but in the blood his sea is already splashing, its very accurate, the image of the sea, yes, the notorious platonic shadow, that is , you know, a blind man, he has direct access to platos cave with shadows, but he doesnt work with the visual, he works with the archeti. With ideas, with eides, yes, things , images of concepts, he works directly, and lets talk more about this Babylonian Library, as you imagine it, in this world, he is a librarian, he is a systematizer, or he is a reader, or as you see it , that is, this world of hexagonal shelves, describe it, how you feel it, you understand, a hexagon, a hexagon this is a honeycomb, that is, it is such a hive, thats why i have bees in my ears today, this too, this is also not without reason. Youre all in signs, im all in signs, well, of course, if we talk about orchis, then you need to operate with its tools, that is , operate with signs, yeah, so, of course, im all in signs, essentially babylon, him, this Babylonian Library is really a giant hive, that is, i can imagine that, just like bees, there is an extremely complex hierarchy of creatures, that is, in the world of borhiss library there must also exist a completely phantasmagoric hierarchy, and i think that he is, first of all, a reader, an enthusiastic reader, who rushes through these honeycombs, from hexagon to hexagon, finds something for himself , something interesting, and it seems to me that in order to become a librarian of the Babylonian Library, you need to go a very long way, you need to go through initiation, you need to go through, yes, you need to enter some kind of luminal phase, yes, go through initiation, that is, to find this notorious tetragrammaton or at least its semblance. That is, to jump to another stage of development, then in front of you these hexagons will be ordered, open up and become permeable, borhis in the story, well, i dont even know, probably this an essay, or maybe a story, four cycles, and he is just trying to systematize, perhaps, all his knowledge, endless, he gives a theory that there are only four plots in the world. And we all repeat them endlessly, this is the plot of the capture of the fortress, but for example, the iliad, yes, and the return home, well, an example is also the classic odysseus, who returns to ithaca, and the search, this is probably a broader concept, but he gives the example of the simurgh bird, which is at the same time many birds and one bird that concludes itself is a lot. In general, this is also an image of god, and to which, ancient stories, well, ancient epic literature, travel is all just a search, and the suicide of god, and the sacrifice of god is a sacrifice that we can see in the bible, and in narnia, there, well, in general, in abundance, any indueuropean myths, yes, that is, like a horse sacrifice, that is , the ashvamedha ritual, which accompanies the ascension of a king to the throne, that is, a sacrifice of a divine being. This is just the most initiatory thing, of all these wandering plots that reminds us, it is the leap to a new level that is a sacrifice to god, uhhuh, here again