The same thing, but living here is much better. Of course, i live here. Excuse me please, but do you remember that feeling when you realized that you are rich. After all, you have been poor all your life, true, of course, i remember this too, then three rubles were always missing before payday, the subject is always earlier in russia was perceived. Like as a personal enemy to buy literally. In general, some kind of painful, uh , disgust for all objects calmly became somehow calm, natasha likes something. She wants to buy more, please, after all, this is an amazing feeling when you understand that you can do Something Real with your own hands, that you can do everything for yourself with your work without the help of someone, here, here, this is very important. This is very important. And how did you start to draw this picture, it is very similar to levitan, he is mine favorite artist. Here is the bridge. Uh, this is the path that leads to the bridge. But, as if it was littered behind my back, in fact it was branches, and you, in some words, and when i stand and draw it in a notebook. Here is the bridge. Yes, i hear not friendly and quite such a mat goes strong. What are you doing there . Your mother, i draw. And here it is interesting such a pause for quite a long time and then suddenly a completely different voice. He says do you draw do you draw . What are you, an artist . And i say, yes, there can be such a conversation, so that the word artist has such an effect on consciousness. In general, such a primitive person, that is, you think that in russia the attitude towards a person to art is completely different. Art, yes, thats all the same, yes, and most importantly, to understand that this is not literature. Its really. Here with me it was not just some sweets from my life. Well, lets see another picture of yours. So now, you know, i ll also put it here for now. Ill put that picture on the wall. Aha beast the door is called its the door to natashas room. And where i dont know where i dont know where this light is. Where are you coming from , erik vladimirovich yes, well, i wont torture you anymore. When hundreds of paintings by rick bulatov lined up in front of me in a halfcentury panorama . I realized that they were not at all about life in the soviet union, not about politics. They are about the space of freedom, this is a painful and endless search for ones giving birth , to look for a way out into this space of freedom. Although it may seem to many around that there is no way out. But a western artist you never did, despite the fact that you live so long. The fact that one should keep and defend ones own next to someone elses becomes more understandable and more necessary, because in russia i never thought at all, i was not interested in my head, i didnt even have to think about it. Dear friends on the air, the Creative Industry podcast is an anniversary issue, but we have an anniversary issue, and michala efimovich shvytkov has it. Mikhail yuryevich hello, thank you very much, we will not speak. How many years, because everyone already knows. I think not a lot but mikhail efimovich e, special representative of the president for International Cultural cooperation and artistic director of the moscow musical theatre. What do you think, when you appear on the screen, what the population thinks first, the population thinks about how to turn off the tv as soon as possible. Uh, im saying, quite seriously , i must say right away that, uh, im generally in awe of any public. Uh, because uh, if there is no contact with the public on television or in the theater or then it is to blame. Uh, to blame, not the public. She is in this sense always right. Like here in the soviet store , there was always an inscription above the saleswoman , the buyer is always right, the appearance is always right. Well, someone thinks that im the host of the Mountain Program there, in general, as if a person were a comedian drive or, lets say. Life is beautiful and sang songs. I liked it too, to be honest. Uh, because i came, uh, to yale university, and uh, so, uh. I was there uh uh, the department of the river was reading several lectures, and the history of russian cultures, and at this university at that time he taught there, unlike me constantly the basis was such an outstanding film. Well, he will come, including with his wife, well, i got ready to read it. It immediately means that he began to look for his poems, but in order to make some impression. Ah, he came to me and said. Oh how we love our program. Life is beautiful, and we began to remember soviet songs, so the whole thing didnt come to poetry in your person. The ministry of culture became the ministry of happiness, it seems to me, because you are always a very cheerful person with positive emotions. Once a grandfather grisha gorina grigory izrailevich. The boys said, when i like it in life, it passes faster. This is one of those important very dishonest, and i believe that one of the one of the problems is serious. Here we are when there was covid, it ended, we were allowed to play 25 of the amplifiers. They suffered endless losses, then they allowed 50 and the formula. Life worked amazingly well, because people left the house all quarantines ended and it seemed to everyone that, well, now it starts, and then it means, after it started a special war, an operation, we sat thinking for a long time, but we should generally play in a play called life is beautiful. And we decided, maybe in cocreation. I never thought. What can i do . There he decides his own fate. I understood perfectly well that we live in such proposed circumstances, that there are large lines of history that dictate this or that behavior, because in any proposed circumstances , you conform with salyutnaya. I accept the conditions of life as they are. I dont invent anything. Eh, im not trying. Uh, there to fight and scream that we are now all broken. Well rebuild everything. Im talking about it at all, its not about me. As good soldier sheik said i stand in the party of moderate progress within the bounds of legality . Ah such position she from childhood. Well, yes, this is the need not to offend anyone. Find some right balance. Sometimes even. Well, sometimes even to lie, if only not, well, not to offend one or the other, there and so on. Well, grandmother was not needed before, she didnt live now anyway. Im with my grandmother up to 20 years old grandparents. I would like that and to move a little, the president offered you to become a minister. I know that you entered the president s office with intent. How would you generally refuse there, the president convinced you, but i have another question. Here you are, when the president came out, what were you thinking about at that moment . I thought about it. Yes, what a horror. I just understood that the situation that was in 2000. We were a Broadcasting Company already at that time with a large office and it was simpler then we conducted uh, well then it was called automation. Now its called digitalization was such a moscow computer center, uh, which, uh, made us the best that could be, uh, in terms of communication. Eh, i was in the office with Mikhail Yuryevich was flattered eh, hmm the kingdom heavenly man is above the degree carried away by this. And so, it means an office somewhere there, eight screens there before the trial, communication connection. We knew it all then, when all of a sudden you got Something Different from such a phone. Here is the phone. Yes, it worked. Heres a phone, and then just a boy. Well it there was something incredible. I come to the ministry of culture. Or rather, my assistant , the Television Comes to the ministry of culture, enters the office, which means and speaks, and there is erics typewriter with such a large carriage at the present time, a fashionable thing. Yeah, yeah, and uh, thats all, and he says guys. Well, at least you are there, well, like some kind of there, well, put a computer. Well, when i came there was a computer, uhhuh, i ll try what youre secreting from the computer, at least it turned out not, they installed the computer, but there werent any inside networks of the ministry of networks, there were no communication networks, yes, but this is a small detail. Well, it is very characteristic. We tried to live on television, there closer to the 21st century. And here everything was still poor, firstly, there was no money. Here, this is the worst. I left the ministry in 1997, when there were some terrible mutual offsets, monstrous something transgaz somewhere through some kind of Something Like that. Maybe build something and then at the end you should get a salary for, uh, that means there are 700 thousand, probably people who were deputy ministers, yes, thats all. It is worth saying with horror. I say, i understand that this is something generally beyond, and when i came in 2000, i realized that this is a colossal problem. You see, there was a very difficult moment in the nineties. There was no money for a cultural institution, they told you. You are free to hand over there before but only survive, the idea was one. Here we must pay tribute to yevgeny yurievich for the generous and stated shcherbakov , who was his first deputy, the idea was from us to preserve everything that could possibly be preserved in the field of culture. And when they tell me now had a book and wait we were the most reading country. I always say the most reading between the lines of the country, but hmm if we look at lets say inventories, well , library funds, there are ninetytwo years, then threequarters of it was classical marxism. Or is there a small land of Something Else brezhnev and there, uh, i dont know, tens of millions. Yes, so the design itself was very strange. And, of course, the main task was money, money, money money money and uh, when the idea of the program of the cultural revolution in general was born such. Uh, the real one that started in the 2000s. Well, like a leader. Yes, he was connected to one. The secretary of the minister of finance, not the minister of finance, should recognize me from the iron, i see him, here is the secretary and there are women who work in departments at the ministry of finance and destroy the economy, because a person from tv came. Well, he sings songs on sundays or saturdays. Well come. Well, well, how is he . Well, too much, yes, refuse. Well, in general, here he is, er, but really. E the problem was incredibly much and it was a huge problem. Uh, i will never forget, uh, they started in february, such a muddy march sun of the culture of the Russian Federation was placed in the building of the former or not the former, they built it for a computer center, so it was kind of such yes huge. And it was difficult and expensive to wash their cloudy glasses, and two people come to my office e, Mikhail Alexandrovich ulyanov and kirill yuryevich lavrov, whom i naturally knew as a theater critic, be quiet, they are older by pills. They are so they are the same artists, they went in like that. Yes, misha, well, you know you wont fire , so they started, so they scoff at their wonderful theatrical, and ulyanov was, in principle, that he could play one of the buildings of such a limit from the building and Marshal Zhukov and here everything means. I began to find out with them how everything was going on. And when i realized how much they receive two great artists, as theater directors, as artists yes , and then we had an idea, and then yuri khatovich temirkanov was involved in this and valery wrote georgiev and then igor ivan helped who worked in the administration and the idea was simple, it was necessary to make a grant for artists very simply in the fortythird year. Uh, during the war, stalin appointed such extra salaries to the state sarchestra for the bolshoi theater by five teams, well, five teams, only for one you need to save the cultural elite, yes, and everything was very simple in the bolshoi theater artists everyone was abroad at sorry at night. This i can say, all the ballerinas had 30 days, uh, months of menstruation, and at that time they performed somewhere abroad with men the same. There was something about everyone dancing abroad in order to assemble a normal lineup. It was almost impossible. And, because everything was very simple, they received 200 a month in moscow. And for the performance there in hamburg, they received 5,000 dollars, period. And it was necessary to find some kind of mechanism and they could not be blamed for this. Well, you see, remember that in the nineties. There, our hockey players began to leave, there, and so on and so forth , these tool mechanisms were needed. To keep people in the country, we managed to create instrument by which all the major collectives of the country received a president. I understand perfectly well that if they solve this problem, then no, there is nothing for culture to do at all. Thats it, of course, save the schools, because we always butted heads in the ministry of education. They explained that at the Theater Institute very often one teacher works with one student , it was considered that this was generally not normal. Well, what do you think, one teacher . Well, at least five students. 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We continue the conversation on the air of the Creative Industry podcast, today he is visiting mikhail efimovich, you began to build and transform a huge economy then. Yes, i do not transform. I just understand that it all needs to be saved somehow. And of course, the most important of the arts, as we know, is cinema quote sounds unpleasant, but it it really sounds like the most important art is cinema and the circus in the conditions of an absolutely illiterate russia, which means that then we took both cinema and the church to the ministerial wing, these were big scandals. Uh, filmmakers categorically believed that it was wrong that the state cinema should exist separately, as the ussr state cinema always existed and the separate ministry of culture. Uh, the circuses have broken free. And, uh, it means that the russian state circus was subordinate to the government, and there was such a history there. I cried, when we talked to cantems, because there are big attractions there, such as, for example, there e horse church. Yes, there was one book that wonderful began with the soviet era, the 19th century began. In russia , he followed the signs of the development of the equestrian circus. So here is the equestrian church. It was Something Like this started all the big rooms with big animals. What they did we had outstanding trainers and stayed. In general, it was necessary to do this, but cinema. Well, cinematography was a problem. When we came here, we collected all this. In russia had 150 halls. Equipped with a modern turnover and for a long time we release the leadership of the government, then i say, give money for development. Look for them saying, no, they didnt. I say well then, dont touch the american cinema. Give money for the production of soviet. Well, russian cinema. But then dont touch foreign movies, because networks make money from foreign movies. They are expanding. Give us money so that we can increase the number of russian cinema at the same time, they were saying moshkaren to the shakhnazarovs, what . Cartoon touch dont it is necessary, but what do you think now, the quantity of russian cinema is sufficient and the quality, well, you understand what is the matter, and we have reached a certain level. It was about a quarter then in box office and a quarter in uh repertoire, but i can say that figure to make it clear today, india releases 2,500 feature films. I think that for our cinema it is Still Necessary to produce eorder. Well, 150200 feature films, especially in the current conditions, when we find ourselves in a difficult situation with the repertoire. Uh, but its not just that you know, thats uh late in the second half of the forties in the late forties. Uh, stalin had this idea that why release a lot of films . Lets make only masterpieces. And Film Production dropped instantly there yes ten titles a year. Here the thaw began and somewhere in 50 there. Well, i always say lets go to the cinema. This means that the film of kolotov has begun. Faithful friends. This floated the boat rocked. Here, well, it doesnt matter, and that means that a large number of films have begun to be released again. Im here, if we talk about what i read, there is important for me as for me something culture. Well, of course, it was necessary to create an environment. Yeah, which people could freely. Develop to create with what you do . Here you are, dear roman that is , you help people to implement projects. And this is very important. I think that today is just the understanding that you need to create an environment from here. There is taurida from here, art master, there is a lot from here, which we will not accidentally say. Uh, here, uh, again, uh, moscow will now be a big movie class, where hundreds of films will be produced up to there, you know, this is also an idea very correct censorship is needed at all, such a question. Eh, not the easiest for me. I will explain why, eh, you know, on the one hand, e you immediately remember alberra stone, who wrote that free literature. It can be good and bad. They are fluent literature. Maybe just bad. But this is true and not true, because freedom of creativity, in general, does not depend on the presence of censorship, all russian literature. Great was written in censored russia. Freedom in general is a test. We thought freedom was happiness, and freedom is a tragedy. In general, to be serious, because when you live in such, as you like, an authoritarian totalitarian. Uh, when you live in a state that determines everything, including , uh, which side is it supposed to sleep with your wife, uh, which church do you go to . There and so on. Many people relate to this. Well , not that they understood with some joy, because as it was written in one polish oven at one time. Im from braszkiewicz, the cage restricts freedom, but guarantees safety. It is always an exchange of freedom for comfort understandable algorithm, of course, i believe that censorship is definitely bad. This is wrong for a person. Its insulting. This means that we do not trust people who either see something, not that, or learn something, you know, i have a favorite anecdote. I will allow myself to perform it once again. Eh, im for very young viewers. If they watch, this is when you are in soviet times, when all sorts of enemy radio stations, it means they tried to upset the life of the soviet people, then jammers were jamming, and now a man walks along the gorky soviet era and buzzes. What are you doing . Where do i muffle the voices of america in myself, you understand . What can they tell us about us . Well, trust me. This is where i take it very seriously. They tell us they tell us about us. Well, they cant say what, but if we talk about censorship, then firstly, there are laws according to which a lot of things cannot work. They already exist. Some additional censorship is needed when we talk about vulgarity. This is generally such a thing, very complicated. Uh, well, first of all, because now i will explain very briefly once tukhmanov, when he brought victory day, as you know, he was not released for a year. It was believed that he wrote in the size of a fact, you know, yes, it was an absolutely iron story. Er, there is a very fundamental difference between culture and art, it is fundamental. Culture is a system of prohibitions. This is what ultimately determines for society for each person what is possible, what is impossible. This censorship is only censorship developed by human experience, right . Art has a different function destroys. Its like science. And education some scientists like to joke that education is the enemy of science . That all the discoveries are made by people there are amateurs who do not know that there is twice two is four in art. This is this and this is a very difficult moment. Thats when you said there that it is difficult for the minister of culture. But the mister of culture is difficult. Heres how not to strangle . This is the desire of the artist to create. And at the same time, not to drive him into it was worth all the prohibitions that exist in this and there is generally a subtlety of management. Eh, theres nothing else, so censorship in one form or another, in general, in society with a person, there is a question of whether it is necessary to add some mechanisms. I am always very afraid of experts for one simple reason. Uh, i respect infinitely experts, not their own selfish ones. This is all not true. Whether the expert is guided by available knowledge. We say that there the earth revolves around the sun , and people said there is no sun. Thats when they said it, they did not lie, it was not so to say. There it was not a cia order; it was the knowledge of the time. And this very serious thing. We continue our conversation with you today Creative Industry podcast roman karmanov, podcast host and ceo of the president ial fund for cultural initiatives elena hyper, producer and clip maker. Our guest today is mikhalych. Lets get back to that interesting moment. In my opinion, when the swedish minister of culture decided that he would also host a program on television in parallel, we all remember. Why, to find out if this number burned out . Here is the plan, he e himself acquitted in the end or not . You know, uh, in general, i wanted to stage it, and then when i left, because the handle of the federal agency for culture of cinematography, the budget of the ministry of designation and the number burned out is another matter, that this is also the time to fill the budget there. Eh, everything worked. Uh, taxes were collected, and in principle, the countrys budget was significantly larger. Yes, but my own , uh, our small budget. Yes, uh, i tried , uh, to increase the maximum, because i ll tell you. So. It is also very important to have good relations with colleagues in government for them. I was also a man from the box and therefore some things were said goodbye to me, because when the issue was discussed, for example, i dont know there the development of the Auto Industry there. Uh, the Aviation Industry agriculture, and the end. I say, and also, well, you must understand that in general in the country of a catastrophe we do not have performers on the english horn , not the andreevskys themselves, you understand well, yes, anxiety is generally a desire. It was a long way to kill me, but still. Uh, well, this is a serious thing, actually, yes, and uh , to be honest, and thats why even then i gref and kudrin well, all colleagues of president putin and all of them supported many projects that would have once been impossible without such some human ones to make a big reconstruction for you. Well, this is the worst terrible dream in my life, this is it then we gave a start, this was for him and it took off. This is the minister of culture, this is the minister who means only good news, there were many good projects and a shelter comedian and life is beautiful and the cultural revolution and so on, but it is still clear that the task is being carried out, some and so on, but it also had popularity to designate after some project. Oh, you felt that way, generally speaking, and through the star, too. And it was important to you. Well, i always laugh. Well, a tv star. Im still a little, uh, well, i live such a different kind of life. I dont live tv life at all and im grateful. How can i say how my television colleagues and konstantin are still a mile away and Oleg Borisovich is the kindest to everyone, everyone, that they tolerate me, as it were, like a person, in general, you know, a person was such a butler i am a bit of a person from the side, well, from the side in this matter. But i watched with great pleasure, hello comedians and in so many yellow press, when suddenly direct contacts arise, you communicate and these stories and people who are next to you whom the whole country loves and you are with them, and it was such a breath, and human for me. It was very, very important, because the person didnt need contact there. Here he is an artist. Here he is as he is, and you gave it to people and seriously not very much. I really liked this project is yours and you are in your charisma. People remembered you, you, you really are the producer of your artistic self. I would say yes, you did it very consciously, as it now turns out. And you did it for purposes that favorably influenced. As a result, for your entire device. You know, when we were doing the moscow musical theater, i understood perfectly well that we would never do a broadway one. What if but no, i deliberately did not want to. We cant make the tramp leave because were working on pushkin square. We can put on a show pushkin square. Eh, i mean, now its not the quality, but the relationship with the public, you understand, because in everything that we do there in the theater, what i think is important is to do some simple clean ones, this is the most important quality today, or what . Or people can not be deceived here in your passion. I love right away that old country, which i first heard printed there, probably in the fifth year. You know, you are one of my most. A successful interview on the culture channel was elena magic giant, that is, the greatest a singer who sang lilies of the valley. Eh, for which then the next day came out guzzling like a rout of the newspaper the truth about it. Eh, love the stage fell in love with the afflicted. And how is it that many people love and have loved and will love the stage, and the theater of the musical. It can be said the exception, not the rule in our country. Although any television project, if it includes a musical part related to our past, it immediately becomes popular, everyone knows this very well, but at the same time, well, you know, the project was closed. Life is beautiful at some point, i i felt like i really wanted to. Uh something to do in this direction and then to my misfortune. I read. Uh, ill paint the story about the brothers, briefly, ill say there were Four Brothers so far, that three of them wrote songs, two of them were great soviet composers dmitry and days and daniil and samuel who wrote the immortal song from the taiga to the british seas of the red army of all cracks, he became a Great American composite and uh, all through the thirties and late twenties he worked in hollywood and there was a lot of that. Here if you there you will take a film of some kind, the great waltz of the famous golly