occupiers. that s what we would do in the porcupine defense, the way we gave stingers to afghanistan when the soviets went in. you would have some sense of that playbook. would we do that? yes. should we? yes. we can t stop russia from taking ukraine if it wants to. they can conquer ukraine, quote, unquote. we can raise the cost of occupation. like we conquered iraq. can we raise the cost of occupation? absolutely. you would have decentralized insurgent bands or groups. as the soviets learned in afghanistan against the taliban and against the other groups, that would be extraordinarily difficult. we don t want u.s. forces to get in there directly. that s geography, a military risk of doing that. so the russians have not challenged nato, if you think about it. they re very careful. we have to strengthen nato. nato can t just be a verbal commitment. nato has to be an actual we have to make sure our capabilities meet our commitments.