times this is not legal. bill barr, the attorney general, tells him doj can t seize these machines. he s told by ken cuccinelli at dhs they can t seize it. even giuliani says he can t do it. when something is beyond the pale for giuliani, i think that you ve really hit rock bottom in terms of legality. so if trump were directing giuliani, for example, to reach out to dhs as the new york times is reporting happened, is that a crime? ana, i think that this sort of highlights where there may be limits to criminal law. you know, there may be a conspiracy to interfere in the election. i mean this was not specifically trying to obstruct congress, but it highlights why the impeachment process was so important because what this is, is a classic abuse of power. the attempt to use the power and the authority of the presidency to basically undermine the will of the american people and overturn an election.