privilege has to yield when there s evidence of a possible crime. mark meadows was the former president s fourth chief of staff. that s right. but he is said to be the chief of staff that trump always wanted. no question about it. he took sycophantsy, and he made it an art form. dwight hieisenhower had a chieff staff of staff named sherman adams. he called him the abominable no-man. in my mind, mark meadows is the abominable yes-man. there was never a scheme that meadows wasn t happy to take for the commander in chief or even become implicit in. rather than being the gatekeeper, he was the guy who flung the gate open to this star wars bar cast of conspiracy theorists and crack pots like
presidential historian. his newest work co-authored with tim mcgraw is songs of america. jon will be playing his acoustic favorites at snuffy s on route 32. and thankfully we re also joined by michael beschloss, nbc news presidential historian and author. the latest of his many works is presidents of war. good evening to you both. michael, one of the things jon and i love about you is the fact you can speak to a topic like the history of modern government oversight, which is no older than any of the three of us in this conversation. exactly right. you know, especially the intelligence agencies. you know, brian, in the 1950s when the cia was expanding, dwight hieisenhower was preside and not everything they did was right. there was an effort to build a spy tunnel under berlin for instance. so eisenhower began bringing in consultants to help him assess whether they were doing the