that would probably hurt. but if they just do the kind of sanctions that they did in 2014, we know that didn t deter putin from annexing crimea. so we have to see what the u.s. and its european allies come up with that would really make a difference to russia. bret: guy? yeah, i agree with mara, this is a moment of testing not just for president biden but for the rest broadly. bill variety that american weakness is provocative and what we are hearing from the white house and from some of our allies is that this time will be different. and mara was noting 2014. the annexation of crimea. don t forget 2008 and the incursion into georgia. putin has attempted very provocative things and, in fact, pulled them off multiple times in recent memory and there was an explosion in each case of sound and fury and finger wagging and a few things happened and putin seems to have absorbed them. would this time be different? would it be painful enough?