But where it starts to break down is how much should nato do to provide support to ukraine where the war actually is going on and does that create a risk of widening the war that brings nato countries into it. that s the uncertainty of how far do we go? the u.s. was part of that saying there will not be used fortunately we ve dropped the arms restriction now. i think that uncertainty still exists and the u.s. needs to be leading, as we see with secretary auston s visit. let me ask you finally the same question i asked the deputy mayor. i don t think there s a doubt in anybody s mind that in spite of the horrors, the atrocities, the war crimes that we ve seen so far, when this is over we re going to even learn a lot more. how does the world hold vat mir.