June 22nd, im ali velshi. In 2024, donald trump primary elections, fundraising events criminal and civil trials, the current 2024 republican front runner will be campaigning to get himself back in the white house while juggling a number of Quarter Pharynxes and criminal trials in different states. Just yesterday, aileen cannon, the federal judge presiding over the classified documents investigation said a trial date for next spring, may 20th 2024. On top of that, trump will likely soon be indicted by a third time in the coming weeks or even days they can him a defendant in three criminal trials, all before The General Election next november. Trump announced that he received a Target Letter from the special prosecutor jack smith, the Charge Letter is almost always an indication that the person to whom the letter is addressed will soon face criminal charges. With us to have, years we have learned a lot about trump and his teams attempts to subvert democracy. Which culminated with the insurrection at the Capitol On January 6th 2021. But, jack smiths team is still uncovering the full scope and the people who were either involved in or when its to trumps attempts to dismantle democracy, on thursday The Grand Jury in washington d. C. Her testimony from william russell, that is the sky here. He is a little personal aide and Ship Director who began working for trump and the white house in early 2020. He remains his aide to this day, notably russell was with trump for at least part of the day on january 6th. You can see he here with trump at the ellipse. Where trump gave an incendiary speech shortly before the insurrection began. Nbc news has learned that prosecutors questioned russell about trumps State Of Mind during and after the 2020 election. A Crucial Point in determining if trump knew he lost the election and still spread lies about voter fraud. With corrupt intent. The insurrection at the capitol was a shock to the system, but as we now understand, it wasnt a spontaneous instant, it was an act of coordinated assault. Carried out by desperate, defeated president trying to cling to power. And the plan to deny joe biden the presidency was complex. It involves the sustained effort to spread dangerous lies about Election Fraud that persist to this day. Plans are underway for fake electors with fake documents to disrupt official proceedings in multiple swing states, all in names of donald trump. There was even a Pressure Campaign to get elected officials like georgia Secretary Of State, a republican crap brad raffensperger, to find, in Donald Trumps words, enough votes to overturn nbc news has now also confirmed a story first reported by the Washington Post that Georgia Governor Brian Kemp was recently contacted by the Special Counsels office in regards to trumps efforts to interfere with the peaceful transition of power. This investigation is much more intricate and complicated compared to the other two cases for which trump has already been indicted, and the complexity of this case is reflected in the three statutes and potential criminal charges outlined in the Target Letter that smith sent to trump. One, witness tampering. To, Conspiracy To Defraud the United States. Three, deprivation of rights under color of law. A charge that would come as somewhat of a surprise. It is not one of the four charges that the January 6th Committee issued in its criminal referral to the Justice Department, last year, nor is it one that has been discussed extensively in connection with this case. Per the statute quote, under cover of any law, the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunity secured or protected by the constitution or laws of the United States, and quote is a crime. And makes it illegal to deny someone their constitutional right, like the right to vote. The law actually dates back to the post civil war reconstruction era when it was used to prosecute people, including members of the ku klux klan who intimidated and terrorized former slaves from exercising the right to vote. It has since been used in other cases involving voter fraud and other efforts to meddle with elections which certainly sounds relevant to this case. But it remains to be seen exactly for What Conduct Smith may be charging trump with this statute. Joining me now is mcquade, a former United States attorney. Shes also an msnbc legal analyst and the coast of the sistersinlaw podcaster. Also with us is donald, former deputy unite states attorney general under president george h. W. Bush. He also recently cowrote a Model Prosecution Memo assessing the possible charges that trump could face in relation to his efforts to interfere with the peaceful transition of power after the 2020 election. Good morning to both of you, thank you for being with us. Donald, let me start with you, talk to me about this Model Prosecution Memo that you helped to put together. There is some overlap with your memo and what is reportedly in this Target Letter. A deprivation of rights under the color of law isnt one of them. Take a look at this, tell me about this statute and how it fits together with your memo. Well, the memo that we wrote was an effort to take what you actually described as a lot of pretty complicated facts and present a path, one path. She wrote another memo year ago when she did something similar when we knew what we knew then. Suing a path that is practical and concise and a way to go forward. The statutes that we identified were the ones that look to us like the ones that could be put together with a selective collection of the facts to tell a story in a way that wouldnt take many, many, many weeks. So, i want to make one note though. That is, excuse me, the statute that i had read about in the papers recently is 2 41 which doesnt require conduct under color of law. It is the old ku klux klan statute and it talks about two or more people conspiring to do what they do including intimidating people in exercise of the rights. Another statute that is also similarly titled which is under color of law and im pretty skeptical that jack smith is likely to file charges claiming trump acted under color of law because he didnt have any authority to do that. Im interested to hear barbara s thoughts on that as well. Thats perfect timing, because barbara is right there. Barbara, lets talk about that. The distinctions between these statutes. 18 to 41, 2 42. This idea of a deprivation of rights under color of law. Which is just one of those things that there are so many things over the years, my viewer and we had never heard of this before. It could be that we come to hear a lot about it. What is your take . Well i dont know whether it is 2 41 or 2 42, ive heard reporting that suggests one or the other. But i think it may not matter because whatever when they are going to use, i think even if donald trump was pretending to use the color of law, he did black that authority. It is the same statute that gets used by Police Officers who exceed their authority when they engage in police brutality. They use their batch and claim the color of law, even though they lack the authority to abuse peoples rights. I think either one of these might work. What i think is particularly interesting about the use of either of these statutes and why it might be a really brilliant move by jack smith is, i think they can make out this case without proving that donald trump moved he had lost the election. For Conspiracy To Defraud the United States, you have to show that he was acting on that lie. As long as you can show that he was trying to do a run around the process, you can show a violation of this statute. For example, asking raffensperger to find 7000 votes, he may have generally believed that he somehow turned them, some of the stolen, but he knew that process wasnt the way you do it. The Secretary Of State can just declare, im just going to give you an extra 11,000 that you need. That i think could be a really good statute because if a jury does not find that the government has proved that donald trump knew he had lost the election, they can still win under the statute. I think this is a really interesting conversation that ive been wanting to have, donald. This idea that donald trump, whether look, if you ask me, i think but if he didnt know, he still knew that things he was asking people to do were illegal. I guess if somehow you are fighting some major injustice and maybe you are a civil rights activists or maybe you are nelson mandela, or monthly talking, you understand youre doing things to break the law to get to a finer and. But in this case, donald trump had access to the courts, he tried many, many times between the election and january 6th. So whether or not he believed that he won the election, im wondering how important a jury needs to feel that is. Well, i agree. I dont think it is required to be i think it is an important underlying fact. I think what we have seen, i think what we know from the record of what is out there in the media is there is a lot of evidence that he did know that he was told by many, many people, including his closest advisers, including bill barr. He said things apparently that indicated he knew that in fact he had lost the election. I think back to this 2 41, 2 42 question, i think perhaps, and this is really now in the realm of speculation. One thing that jackson with can do with those statutes, particularly with 2 41, which i think clearly has no color of Law Requirement to it, is he can focus with those statutes on the Intimidation Act that trump engaged in. Intimidating mike pence, the things he said and tweeted about pence, his intimidation of raffensperger, his intimidation of other state officials. Of course, i also think those statutes, 2 41 in particular, have been used more generally with efforts to essentially deny peoples votes, their effectiveness being counted. I think they might go that broad route. But i think he is more likely to focus on the specific acts which are so heinous and so outrageous. To the point, Barbara Last Night when i was in for chris hayes on late night, i played that recording that we have all heard of the finding of the 11,700 votes, talking to brad or raffensperger. The language and the tone in all of that, it sounds like it was scripted for movie. It sounded like mob top. There were implications, there were ideas. This is gonna be bad for you brad, it is gonna be worse than it is for the American People and all that stuff. It makes for a good narrative, it is going to make for a great documentary, its gonna make for a great movie. Is that stuff relevant . And tell me about the other side of that, because Donald Trumps interview with a lot of people will not be named as coconspirators. But were in the room and listening to these conversations. Yeah, i think one thing to alis, we have usually heard experts of this call a. I want you to find me 11,700 votes. I listen to the whole tape, its about an hour long and i dont know to play the whole tape for the jury but my guess is that they will play more than just that one little segment. In court they have all day, they will play as much of it as they need to, if you listen over the course of the hour, he is absolutely relentless. Every time that raffensperger pushes back, he says no, im sorry mister president , we have counted the votes, those things youre saying are not true. I am confident in the data. Hes pushing back and he even says things to suggest that he is threatening Brad Raffenspergers political future. So i think that is where i think the intimidation comes in. Im sure that Donald Trumps defense will be, i thought i was entitled to this, but as you say, that is essentially Civil Disobedience and Civil Disobedience is a wonderful thing when it is used for noble ends, but even those people go to jail. Those in power went to jail, Martin Luther king went to the birmingham jail. They are willing to pay the price to make a larger point. And so, it is not a legal defense. It might work in a court of public opinion, but it will not work in the court of law. Thanks to both of you. What a great discussion, i appreciated. Barbara mcquade is a former United States attorney and msnbc legal analyst. Donald air is a former United StatesDeputy Attorney general under george h. W. Bush. I would like to have this conversation more as the time goes by. Thank you both this morning. Still ahead this hour on velshi, trumps list of legal troubless sprawling and it gets worse by the day. I will break down the criminal and civil case is that the former president is facing and how its going to intersect with his 2024 president ial campaign. And todays meeting at the Velshi Banned Book Club is going to examine the late, great maya angeles unparalleled autobiography. I know why the caged bird sings. She was a prolific writer and left an even larger legacy. Iraq a tree hosts the species long since departed marked the masthead on, the dinosaur, who left tokens of their soldier in here on our planet. Any broad alarm of their hastening doom is lost in the gloom of dust and ages. D ages d ages imagine youre doing something you love. Rsv could cut it short. Rsv is a contagious virus that usually causes mild symptoms but can cause more severe infections that may lead to hospitalizations. In adults 60 and older. And adults with certain underlying conditions, like copd, asthma, or congestive heart failure. Talk to your doctor and visit cutshortrsv. Com. Tourists tourists that turn into scientists. Tourists taking photos that are analyzed by ai. This week, republicans on so researchers can help life underwater flourish. The House Oversight committee entered a new phase in their investigation into what they call the biden crime family. On wednesday, a pair of irs whistleblowers testified, claiming that the Justice Department intentionally delayed bringing charges against hunter biden. Last month, nbc news reported that hunter biden struck an agreement to plead guilty to two federal misdemeanor counts. Failing to pay his taxes. He also faces a separate felony gun possession charge, which will likely be dismissed, if he meets certain conditions. Now, when this all came up, republicans called it a Sweetheart Deal and claimed that the Biden Administration used its influence to sway the investigation. The white house said, it had no role in decisionmaking, regarding the case, and that joe biden has no ties to his sons business operations. During the weeks hearing, one of the irs whistleblowers said, he witnessed the u. S. Attorney, david weiss, who oversaw the hunter biden case, tell a room of senior fbi and irs investigators in october that he was, quote, not the deciding person on whether charges are filed. Weiss disputes these allegations, a little background here. Weiss was tapped by donald trump five years ago to investigate Hunter BidensBusiness Dealings. When Joe Biden Took Office in 2021, he did what president s typically do. He asked for resignations of all trump appointed United States attorneys. Except for david weiss. So that david weiss could continue to investigate his own son. Now, if you thought a hearing with two irs whistleblowers was going to be tame, you would be wrong. That hearing quickly devolved when the congressman Marjorie Taylor greene displayed explicit photographs of hunter biden to the committee. This is the reality of the republican investigation into the socalled biden crime family. Its seemingly riddled with stunts and conspiracies. Another facet of the hunter biden Investigation Centers around his Business Dealings with the Ukrainian National gas Company Called burisma. Now, the allegations go as far back as 2019, at least. They claim that joe biden, when he was Vice President under barack obama, was accused of pressuring ukraine to remove its top prosecutor. The reason . Conservatives claimed, was to protect burisma from investigation because hunter biden was a member of burismas board. Now, that little part is true. Hunter biden was on the board of burisma. And joe biden did push ukraine to remove its top prosecutor. But that was because the prosecutor was seen as categorically corrupt by the International Community and he was seen as corrupt because, in part, he had failed to investigate alleged wro