Transcripts For MSNBCW The Last Word With Lawrence ODonnell

I wrote this book 30 years ago. Its about the killing of james, a black man who was shot in the back in the back of the head by boston police, its the classic case of a bad shooting. And in the 30 years since this book was published, nothing has changed. Nothing. Except the invention of cell phone video. For a second day in a row we have been confronted by the graphic images shared across social media, a man dying after being shot by police. His fiance, diamond reynolds, hits record, broadcasting live to facebook. Showed a bloody scene inside a car. She then says 15 minutes go by with no medical attention. He took his last breath in front of us. The video has provoked public outrage and protests. Would this have happened if those passengers were white . It was my son yesterday, it could be your son or your daughter or even your grandmother tomorrow. The deadly incident in minnesota comes amid the growing outrage over another Fatal Police Shooting caught on tape in louisiana. This morning i woke to my wife literally crying. The Justice Department is launching a civil rights investigation. What if this happened to somebody in your family . How would you feel . There are protests and demonstrations and vigils across the country tonight, more than a thousand people attended a vigil in saint paul, minnesota where Philando Castile was shot and killed by a Police Officer yesterday. There are protests tonight in new york city, seattle, and outside the white house in washington. We will continue to monitor these demonstrations and update you on whats going on there throughout the hour. Air force one landed in poland tonight where president obama is attending a nato summit. The first thing the president did when he got off the plane was stop and Say Something about the killings by police of alton sterling in baton rouge and Philando Castile in minnesota. All of us, as americans, should be troubled by these shootings. Because these are not isolated incidence. Theyre symptomatic of a broader set of Racial Disparities that exist in our criminal justice system. When incidents like this occur, theres a big chunk of our fellow citizenry that feels that if because of the color of their skin, theyre not being treated the same. And that hurts. That hurts. The latest cell phone video of a killing by police if minnesota shows how much that hurts. It shows who that hurts. Video was made by Philando Castiles girlfriend diamond reynolds. She streamed it live on facebook immediately after the shooting. It shows Philando Castile groaning in pain and dying in the front seat of his car. In the car with him is his girlfriend, who wisely recorded that video and her fouryearold daughter whose voice you can hear in the background. Theirs are the voices of the pain of these strategies. Tonight the president asked people to consider how they would feel if this happened to someone in their family . The voices youre about to hear will force you to feel that. Diamond reynolds is ordered to get out, she keeps the video recording even though shes not able to aim it and then it becomes an audio recording of how much these tragedies hurt and who they hurt. The video were about to show, now, is shocking and it is deeply disturbing, many of you should probably choose not to watch it. If you do watch it, you will never forget it and you will never forget the sound of how much it hurts. Stay with me. We got pulled over for a busted taillight in the back and the police just hes covered he killed my boyfriend. Hes licensed hes license today carry. He was trying to get out his i. D. And his wallet out his pocket and he let the officer know that he was that he had a firearm and he was reaching for his wallet. And the officer just shot him in his arm. Were waiting i will, sir, i will. No worries, i promise. He just shot his arm off. We got pulled over. I told him not to reach for it. You told him to get his i. D. , sir, his drivers license. Oh my god, please dont tell me hes dead. Please dont tell me my boyfriend just went like that. Keep your hands where they are. Yes i will, sir, i will keep my hands where they are. Please dont tell me this, lord. Please jesus dont tell me that hes gone. I cant believe they just did this. Im [ screaming ] its okay, im right here with you. [ crying ] theres so much strength and bravery in that video. None of it from the police. A fouryearold girl had to grow up fast yesterday and find the strength to comfort her grieving mother in the middle of a police shooting, four years old. Its okay, mommy, its okay. Im here with you. A mother needs to stay strong. She knows she needs to say, sir, when shes talking to the man who just killed her boyfriend. She shouldnt have to say, sir, but she knows she should say it if she wants to stay alive and she has to stay alive. She knows that. She has to stay strong for her fouryearold daughter. She does. She stays strong and brave and records the video that outrageous not just her family and friends, but the governor of her state, the video that changed the plans of the president of the United States tonight. The president knew he had to talk about this to people who already know how much it hurts and to people who dont. When people say black lives matters, it just means all lives matter, but right now the big concern is the fact that the data shows black folks are more vulnerable to these kind of incidents. This isnt a matter of comparing the value of lives. This is recognizing that theres a particular burden that is being placed on a group of our fellow citizens. And we should care about that. We cant dismiss it. We cant dismiss it. I will just ask those who question the sincerity or the legitimacy of protests and vigils and expressions of outra outrage, who somehow labeled those expressions of outrage as quote unquote political correctness. I just ask folks to step back and think, what if this happened to somebody in your family . How would you feel . To be concerned about these issues is not political correctness, its just being american and wanting to live up to our best and highest ideas. Its to recognize the reality that weve got some tough history and we havent gotten through all of that history yet. And we dont expect that in my lifeti lifetime, maybe not in my childrens lifetime, but all the vestages of that past will have been cured, will have been solved. But we can do better. The president spoke directly to americas Police Officers. I want to be very clear. We know you have a tough job. We mourn those in uniform who are protecting us who lose their lives. On a regular basis, i have joined with families in front of capitol hill to commemorate the incredible heroism that theyve displayed. Ive hugged family members who have lost loved ones doing the right thing. I know how much it hurts. On a regular basis we bring in those who have done heroic work in Law Enforcement and have survived. Sometimes theyve been injured, sometimes they risk their lives in remarkable ways and we applaud them and appreciate them because theyre doing a really tough job really well. There is no contradiction between us supporting Law Enforcement, making sure theyve got the equipment they need, making sure they theyre collective bargaining rights are recognized, making sure that theyre adequately staffed, making sure that they are respected, making sure their families are supported, and also saying that there are problems across our criminal justice system, their bias sub conscience and unconscience that have to be rooted out. Un the president remarks were ripted and obviously deeply heart felt and ended with the modest optimism that we can do better. People of goodwill can do better. And doing better, involves not just addressing potential bias in a criminal justice, its recognizing the too often were asking police to man the barricades in communities that have been forgotten by all of us for way too long, in terms of sub standard schools and inadequate jobs and a lack of opportunity. Weve got to tackle those things. We can do better. And i believe we will do better. Well have more on president s statement after the break. Tavis smiley will join us. And Police Officer reacts to a killing by police that weve seen on video this week. Im also a person that wears the uniform with the blue. Im also the one that puts their lives in danger. I wear blue. Youre afraid of people that dont look like you. You have no business in that uniform. Take it off. And were continuing to monitor the protest in saint paul and around the country. Well have a live report next. Itsand your doctor at yoto maintain your health. A because in 5 days, 10 hours and 2 minutes you are going to be 67. And on that day you will walk into a room where 15 people will be waiting. 12 behind the sofa, 2 behind the table and 1 and a half behind a curtain. Family surprise but only one of them will make a life long dream come true. Great things are ahead of you when your health is ready for them. At humana, we can help you with a personalized plan for your health for years to come. Take on any road with intuitive allwheel drive. The nissan rogue, murano and pathfinder. Now get 0 apr for up to 72 months, plus 500 bonus cash. You live life your way. We can help you retire your way, too. Financial guidance while youre mastering life. From chase. So you can. This is time square, live shot of gathering in time square in reaction to the two videos we have seen this week of killings by police. Were doing to take a break and well be right back. Uh oh. Oh. Henry oh my. Good, youre good. Back, back, back. vo according to kelley blue book, subaru has the highest resale value of any brand. Again. You might find that comforting. Love. Its what makes a subaru, a subaru. This is not just a black issue. Its not just hispanic issue. This is an American Issue that we should all care about, all fairminded people should be concerned. Joining us now nelson associate director, council of the naacp of and also mark claxton director of black Law Enforcement alliance. I would like you to just begin wherever you think you should at this stage in this story, having heard the president tonight and these impromptu remarks, which really stopped us and certainly changed the way News Coverage has been going since then and also what weve been seeing on these videos. This has been an extraordinarily difficult week. This is all too familiar terrain. And this is a moment where, i think, the National Crisis that america has been experiencing for centuries and decades but really in the area of policing so long, you said at the outset of your segment, weve really reached a crisis moment within the crisis, that requires our action. We the Civil Rights Community has responded. The federal government has responded. The department of justice has increased the number of investigations and its interaction with Law Enforcement across the country. The department of justice is now requiring bias training. There have been changes what we havent seen is reaction by state and local Law Enforcement to this crisis. We havent seen them adopt the recommendations of a task force. There has been movement. There has been a reaction. There has been change in certain areas, but not where it counts and thats at the state and local Law Enforcement levels. And i hope, i hope that these two tragedies will bring those actors to the table and make a difference. Mark, theres so much to analyze in this new video that we have tonight. I would like you, as a former Police Officer, to talk about what you heard from the Police Officer himself, his own verbal reaction to having done that shooting and pumped probably four bullets into the car, according to the woman who was there recording it. It seemed, after the fact, that he was highly agitated and himself deeply disturbed by what he had done. Yeah, he was in full panic mode, understandably and full shock. She was raging and really what was also concerning about that is his partner, if there was a partner, really should have taken control of that situation because he was, obviously, emotionally and mentally unstable at that point and not in a position, either, to continue with the enforcement operation as botched and as crazy and as disturbing it turned out to be. And word, mark, from you about what you saw, and what i think, was the bravery and strength of here is a woman or mother in the middle of this shooting and she has the presence of mind to keep that camera going. It was fascinating display. I mean, really, i suspect and im no psychologist, i suspect as part of her defense mechanism immediately and part of her trying to handle her level of shock or trauma that she engaged very calm and deliberate conversation. All of her senses were fully aware. She was able to multi task. She was not able to not only listen to the Police Officer, giving her additional commands but respond to him all the while narrating in the midst of chaos, with her fouryearold child in the backseat. I mean, it just adds to the horrific nature of what occurred there and the senselessness of what occurred there and the pain and anguish and the frustration that so many people are feeling across the nation in regards to this and other incidents. I felt like i was watching a woman who had internalized the old blessing that parents have been teaching for years, say sir, be very careful and the new lesson, keep that camera going, get a record of what this is. And then that the video is much longer than what we could show. She goes through emotional curves in this where shes being very steady, being very calm and then there are the times when she realizes that hes gone and she literally starts praying, praying that hes not gone. And you can hear the cries, the pain of what this means to her. Absolutely. My heart goes out to her and the family of mr. Castile. Her strength, her compose sure was incredibly remarkable. And so many people cant understand where that comes from. Many of us know where it comes from, in the same way we now are faced about learning evacuation plans and going through drills to prepare ourselves for disaster, the black community has been doing that forever. We know that in those situations, if we want to come out of it alive, if we want to come out of it intact and live to tell the story of that brutality, we need to act in a certain way. We talk about the talk. It is really preparation for these acts of terror by Law Enforcement that are rogue and really facing ram pid pair know ya as we saw in that video. We have to prepare ourselves for that, unfortunately, and that should not be the preparation that any resident or citizen of this country has to undergo. Well have to go to breaking news in dallas, where there are reports of shots fired after a demonstration there over the deadlyofficer involved shootings in louisiana and minnesota. Witnesses have said one dallas Police Officer may have been shot. Joining us now is melissa ray bird with more details. Were looking at live pictures at what had been a peaceful protest, apparently, up until about 10 00 local time. When im reading things off of twitter right now, but apparently, according to a lot of people on twitter, several shots were fired, again, unconfirmed that at least two Police Officers may have been shot and you can see an overwhelming Police Response right there in this live picture on your screen. According to a couple of people who are tweeting from the scene, that apparently this person has a longgun. Somebody is describing this person as a sniper and is apparently shooting directly at police. Lawrence, again, these are nationwide protests that have been sparked by these two shootings of black men by Police Officers just this week, so this is one of those protests. According to witnesses, it was peaceful up until just a short while ago. So, again, i have to emphasize unconfirmed that shots have been fired in Downtown Dallas, unconfirmed that Police Officers may have been shot, unconfirmed that it may be a person with some sort of long gun who is deliberately taking aim at police. Lawrence, im keeping an eye on this and i will update you with more. I want to get your reaction to what were learning out of dallas right now, obviously, difficult tactical situation for police, seeing some video of it there. You have darkness. You have a big crowd and you have shots fired. How can the police best respond to what theyre facing there right now. Well, first off, this is a Police Officers nightmare. Im hoping that some of the reports coming out may be inaccurate. This is a Police Officers Worst Nightmare talking about the possibility of sniper fire in to a congregation of Police Officers. It will be difficult to take coverage and concealment and the challenge because of the darkness and lack of light and the presence of a lot of civilians around. Tactically it really is a horrific situation, so, you know, you have to pray and wish that everything turns out all right and that these reports may be inaccurate, hopefully, they are. But if not, the Police Officers have to really rely hard on the tactics and basic survival mode and hopefully get a respond, you know, from their brothers and sisters in the surrounding areas. According to local news reports there, they have a report of a shooter with the rifle, Police Moving people back from the area where the shots were fired and nbc 5s corey smith there reporting that gunshots were fired at the demonstrations. Its now its not clear, at this point exactly, mark, who might have been targeted by these shots. And thats another thing, too, because the focus of the Fatal Police Shooting<\/a> caught on tape in louisiana. This morning i woke to my wife literally crying. The Justice Department<\/a> is launching a civil rights investigation. What if this happened to somebody in your family . How would you feel . There are protests and demonstrations and vigils across the country tonight, more than a thousand people attended a vigil in saint paul, minnesota where Philando Castile<\/a> was shot and killed by a Police Officer<\/a> yesterday. There are protests tonight in new york city, seattle, and outside the white house in washington. We will continue to monitor these demonstrations and update you on whats going on there throughout the hour. Air force one landed in poland tonight where president obama is attending a nato summit. The first thing the president did when he got off the plane was stop and Say Something<\/a> about the killings by police of alton sterling in baton rouge and Philando Castile<\/a> in minnesota. All of us, as americans, should be troubled by these shootings. Because these are not isolated incidence. Theyre symptomatic of a broader set of Racial Disparities<\/a> that exist in our criminal justice system. When incidents like this occur, theres a big chunk of our fellow citizenry that feels that if because of the color of their skin, theyre not being treated the same. And that hurts. That hurts. The latest cell phone video of a killing by police if minnesota shows how much that hurts. It shows who that hurts. Video was made by Philando Castile<\/a>s girlfriend diamond reynolds. She streamed it live on facebook immediately after the shooting. It shows Philando Castile<\/a> groaning in pain and dying in the front seat of his car. In the car with him is his girlfriend, who wisely recorded that video and her fouryearold daughter whose voice you can hear in the background. Theirs are the voices of the pain of these strategies. Tonight the president asked people to consider how they would feel if this happened to someone in their family . The voices youre about to hear will force you to feel that. Diamond reynolds is ordered to get out, she keeps the video recording even though shes not able to aim it and then it becomes an audio recording of how much these tragedies hurt and who they hurt. The video were about to show, now, is shocking and it is deeply disturbing, many of you should probably choose not to watch it. If you do watch it, you will never forget it and you will never forget the sound of how much it hurts. Stay with me. We got pulled over for a busted taillight in the back and the police just hes covered he killed my boyfriend. Hes licensed hes license today carry. He was trying to get out his i. D. And his wallet out his pocket and he let the officer know that he was that he had a firearm and he was reaching for his wallet. And the officer just shot him in his arm. Were waiting i will, sir, i will. No worries, i promise. He just shot his arm off. We got pulled over. I told him not to reach for it. You told him to get his i. D. , sir, his drivers license. Oh my god, please dont tell me hes dead. Please dont tell me my boyfriend just went like that. Keep your hands where they are. Yes i will, sir, i will keep my hands where they are. Please dont tell me this, lord. Please jesus dont tell me that hes gone. I cant believe they just did this. Im [ screaming ] its okay, im right here with you. [ crying ] theres so much strength and bravery in that video. None of it from the police. A fouryearold girl had to grow up fast yesterday and find the strength to comfort her grieving mother in the middle of a police shooting, four years old. Its okay, mommy, its okay. Im here with you. A mother needs to stay strong. She knows she needs to say, sir, when shes talking to the man who just killed her boyfriend. She shouldnt have to say, sir, but she knows she should say it if she wants to stay alive and she has to stay alive. She knows that. She has to stay strong for her fouryearold daughter. She does. She stays strong and brave and records the video that outrageous not just her family and friends, but the governor of her state, the video that changed the plans of the president of the United States<\/a> tonight. The president knew he had to talk about this to people who already know how much it hurts and to people who dont. When people say black lives matters, it just means all lives matter, but right now the big concern is the fact that the data shows black folks are more vulnerable to these kind of incidents. This isnt a matter of comparing the value of lives. This is recognizing that theres a particular burden that is being placed on a group of our fellow citizens. And we should care about that. We cant dismiss it. We cant dismiss it. I will just ask those who question the sincerity or the legitimacy of protests and vigils and expressions of outra outrage, who somehow labeled those expressions of outrage as quote unquote political correctness. I just ask folks to step back and think, what if this happened to somebody in your family . How would you feel . To be concerned about these issues is not political correctness, its just being american and wanting to live up to our best and highest ideas. Its to recognize the reality that weve got some tough history and we havent gotten through all of that history yet. And we dont expect that in my lifeti lifetime, maybe not in my childrens lifetime, but all the vestages of that past will have been cured, will have been solved. But we can do better. The president spoke directly to americas Police Officer<\/a>s. I want to be very clear. We know you have a tough job. We mourn those in uniform who are protecting us who lose their lives. On a regular basis, i have joined with families in front of capitol hill to commemorate the incredible heroism that theyve displayed. Ive hugged family members who have lost loved ones doing the right thing. I know how much it hurts. On a regular basis we bring in those who have done heroic work in Law Enforcement<\/a> and have survived. Sometimes theyve been injured, sometimes they risk their lives in remarkable ways and we applaud them and appreciate them because theyre doing a really tough job really well. There is no contradiction between us supporting Law Enforcement<\/a>, making sure theyve got the equipment they need, making sure they theyre collective bargaining rights are recognized, making sure that theyre adequately staffed, making sure that they are respected, making sure their families are supported, and also saying that there are problems across our criminal justice system, their bias sub conscience and unconscience that have to be rooted out. Un the president remarks were ripted and obviously deeply heart felt and ended with the modest optimism that we can do better. People of goodwill can do better. And doing better, involves not just addressing potential bias in a criminal justice, its recognizing the too often were asking police to man the barricades in communities that have been forgotten by all of us for way too long, in terms of sub standard schools and inadequate jobs and a lack of opportunity. Weve got to tackle those things. We can do better. And i believe we will do better. Well have more on president s statement after the break. Tavis smiley will join us. And Police Officer<\/a> reacts to a killing by police that weve seen on video this week. Im also a person that wears the uniform with the blue. Im also the one that puts their lives in danger. I wear blue. Youre afraid of people that dont look like you. You have no business in that uniform. Take it off. And were continuing to monitor the protest in saint paul and around the country. Well have a live report next. Itsand your doctor at yoto maintain your health. A because in 5 days, 10 hours and 2 minutes you are going to be 67. And on that day you will walk into a room where 15 people will be waiting. 12 behind the sofa, 2 behind the table and 1 and a half behind a curtain. Family surprise but only one of them will make a life long dream come true. Great things are ahead of you when your health is ready for them. At humana, we can help you with a personalized plan for your health for years to come. Take on any road with intuitive allwheel drive. The nissan rogue, murano and pathfinder. Now get 0 apr for up to 72 months, plus 500 bonus cash. You live life your way. We can help you retire your way, too. Financial guidance while youre mastering life. From chase. So you can. This is time square, live shot of gathering in time square in reaction to the two videos we have seen this week of killings by police. Were doing to take a break and well be right back. Uh oh. Oh. Henry oh my. Good, youre good. Back, back, back. vo according to kelley blue book, subaru has the highest resale value of any brand. Again. You might find that comforting. Love. Its what makes a subaru, a subaru. This is not just a black issue. Its not just hispanic issue. This is an American Issue<\/a> that we should all care about, all fairminded people should be concerned. Joining us now nelson associate director, council of the naacp of and also mark claxton director of black Law Enforcement<\/a> alliance. I would like you to just begin wherever you think you should at this stage in this story, having heard the president tonight and these impromptu remarks, which really stopped us and certainly changed the way News Coverage<\/a> has been going since then and also what weve been seeing on these videos. This has been an extraordinarily difficult week. This is all too familiar terrain. And this is a moment where, i think, the National Crisis<\/a> that america has been experiencing for centuries and decades but really in the area of policing so long, you said at the outset of your segment, weve really reached a crisis moment within the crisis, that requires our action. We the Civil Rights Community<\/a> has responded. The federal government has responded. The department of justice has increased the number of investigations and its interaction with Law Enforcement<\/a> across the country. The department of justice is now requiring bias training. There have been changes what we havent seen is reaction by state and local Law Enforcement<\/a> to this crisis. We havent seen them adopt the recommendations of a task force. There has been movement. There has been a reaction. There has been change in certain areas, but not where it counts and thats at the state and local Law Enforcement<\/a> levels. And i hope, i hope that these two tragedies will bring those actors to the table and make a difference. Mark, theres so much to analyze in this new video that we have tonight. I would like you, as a former Police Officer<\/a>, to talk about what you heard from the Police Officer<\/a> himself, his own verbal reaction to having done that shooting and pumped probably four bullets into the car, according to the woman who was there recording it. It seemed, after the fact, that he was highly agitated and himself deeply disturbed by what he had done. Yeah, he was in full panic mode, understandably and full shock. She was raging and really what was also concerning about that is his partner, if there was a partner, really should have taken control of that situation because he was, obviously, emotionally and mentally unstable at that point and not in a position, either, to continue with the enforcement operation as botched and as crazy and as disturbing it turned out to be. And word, mark, from you about what you saw, and what i think, was the bravery and strength of here is a woman or mother in the middle of this shooting and she has the presence of mind to keep that camera going. It was fascinating display. I mean, really, i suspect and im no psychologist, i suspect as part of her defense mechanism immediately and part of her trying to handle her level of shock or trauma that she engaged very calm and deliberate conversation. All of her senses were fully aware. She was able to multi task. She was not able to not only listen to the Police Officer<\/a>, giving her additional commands but respond to him all the while narrating in the midst of chaos, with her fouryearold child in the backseat. I mean, it just adds to the horrific nature of what occurred there and the senselessness of what occurred there and the pain and anguish and the frustration that so many people are feeling across the nation in regards to this and other incidents. I felt like i was watching a woman who had internalized the old blessing that parents have been teaching for years, say sir, be very careful and the new lesson, keep that camera going, get a record of what this is. And then that the video is much longer than what we could show. She goes through emotional curves in this where shes being very steady, being very calm and then there are the times when she realizes that hes gone and she literally starts praying, praying that hes not gone. And you can hear the cries, the pain of what this means to her. Absolutely. My heart goes out to her and the family of mr. Castile. Her strength, her compose sure was incredibly remarkable. And so many people cant understand where that comes from. Many of us know where it comes from, in the same way we now are faced about learning evacuation plans and going through drills to prepare ourselves for disaster, the black community has been doing that forever. We know that in those situations, if we want to come out of it alive, if we want to come out of it intact and live to tell the story of that brutality, we need to act in a certain way. We talk about the talk. It is really preparation for these acts of terror by Law Enforcement<\/a> that are rogue and really facing ram pid pair know ya as we saw in that video. We have to prepare ourselves for that, unfortunately, and that should not be the preparation that any resident or citizen of this country has to undergo. Well have to go to breaking news in dallas, where there are reports of shots fired after a demonstration there over the deadlyofficer involved shootings in louisiana and minnesota. Witnesses have said one dallas Police Officer<\/a> may have been shot. Joining us now is melissa ray bird with more details. Were looking at live pictures at what had been a peaceful protest, apparently, up until about 10 00 local time. When im reading things off of twitter right now, but apparently, according to a lot of people on twitter, several shots were fired, again, unconfirmed that at least two Police Officer<\/a>s may have been shot and you can see an overwhelming Police Response<\/a> right there in this live picture on your screen. According to a couple of people who are tweeting from the scene, that apparently this person has a longgun. Somebody is describing this person as a sniper and is apparently shooting directly at police. Lawrence, again, these are nationwide protests that have been sparked by these two shootings of black men by Police Officer<\/a>s just this week, so this is one of those protests. According to witnesses, it was peaceful up until just a short while ago. So, again, i have to emphasize unconfirmed that shots have been fired in Downtown Dallas<\/a>, unconfirmed that Police Officer<\/a>s may have been shot, unconfirmed that it may be a person with some sort of long gun who is deliberately taking aim at police. Lawrence, im keeping an eye on this and i will update you with more. I want to get your reaction to what were learning out of dallas right now, obviously, difficult tactical situation for police, seeing some video of it there. You have darkness. You have a big crowd and you have shots fired. How can the police best respond to what theyre facing there right now. Well, first off, this is a Police Officer<\/a>s nightmare. Im hoping that some of the reports coming out may be inaccurate. This is a Police Officer<\/a>s Worst Nightmare<\/a> talking about the possibility of sniper fire in to a congregation of Police Officer<\/a>s. It will be difficult to take coverage and concealment and the challenge because of the darkness and lack of light and the presence of a lot of civilians around. Tactically it really is a horrific situation, so, you know, you have to pray and wish that everything turns out all right and that these reports may be inaccurate, hopefully, they are. But if not, the Police Officer<\/a>s have to really rely hard on the tactics and basic survival mode and hopefully get a respond, you know, from their brothers and sisters in the surrounding areas. According to local news reports there, they have a report of a shooter with the rifle, Police Moving<\/a> people back from the area where the shots were fired and nbc 5s corey smith there reporting that gunshots were fired at the demonstrations. Its now its not clear, at this point exactly, mark, who might have been targeted by these shots. And thats another thing, too, because the focus of the Police Officer<\/a>s immediately is going to be on protecting the civilian population first and foremost and in doing so they then have to also consider their own personal safety and deploy some tactical moves in the hope to end this at this type of thing. But its a Police Officer<\/a>s Worst Nightmare<\/a>, just random unidentified shots coming down a group of you and your colleagues is really, its a difficult situation to even attempt to defend against. And this is what people organizing these vigils and these demonstrations are hoping never happens. Thats right. There have been so many Peaceful Demonstrations<\/a> and there have been so many wonderful acts of expression to deal with this grief, to try to bring tension to these Critical Issues<\/a> that have gone off wonderfully and peacefully. And i hope that everything turns out well tonight for everyone involved, including the officers on the scene in dallas. I think what this under scores, though, theres a real unraveling happening here between the relationship of Law Enforcement<\/a> and the communities that they are charged to protect and serve. And we all we all lose when that relationship is framed. No one wins and we all have to bring our best thinking, our best efforts and our best collaboration to the table to solve this crisis. Mark, theres a point the president made tonight in his remarks about better relations with the community, means safer relationships for the police with any community. And this is something that if people have been trying to impress upon Police Forces<\/a> for a very long time. I think these agencies have proven years ago if you establish respectful relationships with the community, the community will then supply you with information, be very cooperative, work with you, really act as a buffer in areas that experience high crimes. Its very important to have this Collaborative Cooperative<\/a> relationship. It shouldnt typically be about this community and over materialized Aggressive Police<\/a> force. You really dont accomplish your goals of Public Safety<\/a> very well if you follow that rule. I think the president s comments tonight were significant, and most significant, i think, his acknowledgment or stating that these are systemic issues that need to be addressed. The challenge that he will have and what his task force has had and the recommendations not being implemented is compelling Law Enforcement<\/a> agencies to adopt some of those changes and what ever additional necessary changes are out there, that will be the challenge. Police agencies do not, willingly, just lay down and abide by change, especially revolutionary change that deals with transforming policing. We have some new video that just came in that was shot moments after the report of shots fired. Lets take a look at this new video. Theyre shooting, thats the last thing we hear on that video. Yeah. Theres really no police chief in america who can be looking at this video and looking at the videos that weve seen the past couple of days and not be rethinking some of the policies and practices in his or her department, not thinking is there something wrong, is there something we could be doing better, is there some corrective measure we can take to end this problem and to bring it into a new phase of the relationship between the community and police. Again, no one wins here. And we are needing a solution, december deseparately. This is video taken, you can hear the shots right at the beginning of this. This is another new video that we have taken right after the shooting. Hands up, dont shoot hands up dont shoot hands up dont shoot. Theyre shooting. Theyre shooting. Mark, its impossible to see whos on the ground there and whether that person on the ground is as a result of the shots fired or not. This is one of those stories thats going to be developed quickly over the next hour. But, again, the Tactical Response<\/a> so far from Dallas Police<\/a> seems to be working the situation is calmed. We dont see crowds behaving in any kind of uncooperative way in that shot and we have no more shots fired. This applies to whats going on there in dallas and it also can apply to so many of the incidents of Fatal Police Shooting<\/a>s that weve seen lately. Too often, its bad tactics, that officer created jeopardy as result of bad tactics and losing common sense that create the perfect storm and opportunity for thattal encounters to incur. So, i think, too often officer creating jeopardy is at the root cause of so many. If you go back to several of them, that you can see officer created jeopardy is at the root cause of many of these fatal encounters. As far as we know at this point, one person with one gunfiring shots in a big crowd and according to the video were seeing now, instantaneously the crowd dispurses and gets out of this dangerous area and police apparently have completely controlled. It looks like the situation is contained. Im no expert at this, looking at some of the footage, it looks that was done without the use of any military equipment or any, you know, outside machinery. I think thats a really key element to under score. We should have learned a lesson from ferguson and the protests that occurred there and the horrible aftermath that was insta gaited by an outsiders response to peaceable protest. I think we need to be recognizing that there will continue to be protest. There will be people in the streets expressing their grief, their anguish, we have to find a way to deal with that that doesnt violate anyone elses rights and allows people that free expression. Of course, that protects our Law Enforcement<\/a> as well. Back to melissa who is monitoring the situation. Melissa, whats the latest. This is according to kxas, that according to this police have looking for the shooter. They have not found the shooter. We are hearing that one officer has been taken to the hospital, another officer is hurt, but is in a restaurant because it is too dangerous to take him out of the place where he is. I want to read you something off of Dallas Morning News<\/a>. We have seen bystanders are recording hearing multiple shots from the area of market and main street, that that is Downtown Dallas<\/a>, which im not familiar with. Thats what were looking at right here. There are reports, again, at least one officer being injured, not confirmed yet. People are being asked to leave, according to this, some are walking, others are running, and if you are in dallas watching this, you need to know dart has suspended all bus and rail service in downtown as they look for the shooter. And that is all we know now. I want to get back to mark claxton, based on your Law Enforcement<\/a> experience, when you hear that set of reactions, suspending bus service, what is your sense of what that means to the scale of this search . Well, theyre ramping up the search itself and they want to have clear concise control over a particular area. And what will happen next is there will be a methodical block by block, street by street, you know, facility by facility search. So in order to do that, they want to clear the area as much as possible from the civilians. They want to control and corden off their search area and methodically go area and space and spot until they are able to apprehend the individual who committed these acts. And, mark, what do you make of an injured officer staying in a restaurant because its too dangerous to try to move at that point, does that indicate to you that his injuries might not be that severe, meaning, theyre survivalble, certainly, or if they were if they thought he needed immediate medical treatment, would they take that chance on moving him . The feeling that i have is that theyre probably waiting for some Additional Resources<\/a> in order to transport the officer out of that restaurant. And they feel that the normal resources would use, or the options that they had available are not safe, theres possibly a sniper, a person shooting outside of the restaurant and therefore they dont want to take an injured officer or expose other officers to the potential gunfire outside. So its quite possible that they will bring in some its quite possible for an armoured vehicle or some other vehicle that will pull up directly next to the restaurant and transport that officer for additional care. It seems, to me, just based on whats been said so far, that its likely theyre mored concerned about the gunfire outside of the restaurant that the nature of the officers injuries at this point. Melissa, do you have more updates for you. Reporter we have some more information trickling in from kxas by corey smith who is across the street from the federal courthouse right now. Police say there is still an active suspect, possibly in the area. There have not been any more reports of more shots fired. Were told at least one officer was taken to parkland hospital. Reports of two officers are hurt. One taken to the hospital, another is being held up in a restaurant. Theyre focusing apparently, lawrence, on a parking garage downtown across the from the Greyhound Bus<\/a> station and a mcdonalds and thats what we have right now. The Dallas Morning News<\/a> reporting a witness saying it sounded like six to eight shots. This is horrible out come for dallas and the people in the vigil, it took only one person to completely change what was happening there. Thats absolutely right. Were in the midst of morning. We have the family of two victims already mourning. We certainly dont need to add anything further to that. Im hopeful that the officers, if they were injured certainly survive and do well and i hope that the situation is contained, at this point. And mark, if theyve identified a building, a parking garage, or place they believe to be the location of a shooter, i would imagine it will take them a while to clear that building floor by floor. Yeah. And you also will require Additional Resources<\/a>. You may include aviation, whatever operations units you have in the area, you want to throw them into the mix because you want this search and apprehension of the perpetrator to be as quick as possible, but done in an ultimately safe way. You dont want to have additional injury. You want to really take control hoft situation and be methodical searching for the individual. Everything and any resource that you may need at this point, youre going to call for and get the job done. Mark, lets just go over the next stage, assuming that they do apprehend or stop an individual, that doesnt mean its over. Theyre not in a position now to know whether this was only one individual. Thats correct. Thats correct, so what will happen once they clear the perimeter, if you will, theyll begin this process. If they apprehend a suspected that im sure theyll take the suspect for further questioning, theyll try to collect whatever evidence is available, if there is any evidence available, physical evidence available, whether it be a weapon or some other item. It will be methodical. Its a longhaul process because you want to make sure that you get any and everyone involved in this type of an incident. You dont want to leave anyone out there. You dont want to take one person where there may have been two or three people who operated together in regards to this. And this changes the nature of demonstration vigils in dallas, remains to be seen, how it might effect the situation anywhere else. Thats right. Its unfortunate that its taking the focus off the issues that brought us here. You know, its impornt that we remain clear headed about what happened. Were seeing on twitter the accusations that this was result of obamas very candid and necessary conversation. You have to be able to have open and honest and real conversations about our racial divisions and the problems that we confront without them blaming and scapegoating if something goes wrong, that is wholly unrelated to that. I hope we all remain clear headed and in the same way we dont cast all Police Officer<\/a>s, we certainly should not do the same for protesters or those who are in mourning. Were joined now by james kavanaukh and former atf agent in charge. Jim, given all the information we have at this stage, one witness reporting six to eight shots witness indication that its a long gun. And apparently one, only one at this point. No suspect apprehended or any announcement of it. Where do you think the Dallas Police<\/a> are now in this situation . Well, theyre swarming that downtown area right there, lawrence. I use to be the assistant special agent in charge of the dallas division, those are the streets right in front of my office. The federal building, the Greyhound Bus<\/a> station a few blocks down. Its a series of sky scrapers or some smaller buildings that have lower elevation. Theres parking garages, you know, its urban city, but theres an elevated position where a shooter with a long gun could get to shoot at an and so you could, you know, hide. Its a lab of buildings and parking garages all throughout there. You can see some of the grassy area. Its right in Downtown Dallas<\/a>, right there by the bus station, the federal court, all right in there. How long will you expect it to clear to get an allclear in a situation like this. I mean, if you fired from a parking garage or, you know, a roof of a Building Three<\/a> or four buildings tall, you can slip out the back into the grass, down an ally, i mean, this can take a while. Dallas has a lot of officers, you know, their force may be 3,500 officers now. Theyve got a lot of people to bring to bear and they have great s. W. A. T. Teams and tactical abou tactical abilities. There were large crowds doing their Peaceful Demonstrations<\/a> down there but someone, looks like, wanted to shoot uniformed officers they could get away. It just depends how tast fast they could have sealed it. Its going to be a challenge. You know the area well, obviously, who else is responding to this at this point you think in addition to the Dallas Police<\/a>. All the federal agents are right downtown. Theyll all lend a hand. Dallas pd are very strong. Theyre going to get all the help they can from the federal agent, of course the Texas Department<\/a> of Public Safety<\/a>, everybody will help. But i think the challenge is what youre describing, its the immediacy of it. Can they get the perimeter set up . Can they locate a person with a rifle . A rifle is very loud. Its going to crack in those downtown canyons, you know, when those building canyons, its very loud. Its louder than a pistol. Witnesses will probably be describing some of that noise later, depending on the number of shots fired as well. Cal, whats the latest information we have on this. A lot of confusion, the city has gone into, what i will describe, state of lock down. There are reports that nbc cannot confirm, there have been second following of gunfire. What this highlights is what weve been seeing for the last 24 hours is anger and real anger about the history of race in this country and whats happening here is were trying to decipher between the rumors and what is actually going on on the ground. Its very difficult because of the atmosphere that were seeing not just in dallas, well see protests in minneapolis. But dallas right now is what the police are defining active shooter situation. Theyre locking down various parts to keep the shooter isolated where he is. But right now its a lot of confusion as we wait to find out as these s. W. A. T. Teams sort of go through these buildings. Is there any indication in social media that what has happened in dallas is spreading to any other locations in other cities. In fact. The outcry has been how could this have happened, things got out of control. All day we were monitoring really dangerous chatter centered around atlanta and centered around dallas. There was an incident over night in atlanta where somebody committed suicide in one of the main parks in the city and people cried out for investigation because the suicide was by a hanging. And it cried the past pains that america has been there. But so far the chatter on social media, beyond, again, this unconfirmed report there has been no gunfire in the city of dallas, has been an outcry for the police. Weve seen these kind of protests in cities across the america. Ununtil about an hour ago, theyve been peaceful. The one in new york was a tussle over pedestrian traffic. Police were cooperating with the the protesters. This is obviously, something very ridiculous. Im reading the Dallas Morning News<\/a>, were getting more reaction from witnesses and the crowds. Im going to read some of it to you. It goes along with some of the video where everybody started screaming and running and ducking. Theres report of a woman who blaugt her three teenage kids to the protest. When chaos broke out and the gunshots got heard they got separated for a few minutes and only got reunited because they all had cell phones, they were able to find each other. Somebody who described himself as a former military person said he heard someone fire back with what sounded like an ar 15 that may explain the other shots that we were just hearing. One witness says that the shooter was strategic and described it as tap tap pause and tap tap pause and everybody started running. You saw the crowd that was there earlier, lawrence, you can imagine what that looks like. The crowd has done everything the Police Wanted<\/a> them do do. I think there was a realization that this was a different situation than any of the protest that were seeing any other cities. The second location, unconfirmed reports, theyre streaming from that protest site away from the omni hotel. Weve got scott. Hes reporter with kxas in dallas, hes on the scene. Scott, what is the situation there . Reporter its very tense where we are right now. Were in the west end section and police here with guns drawned. They have told us to stay back at the particular corner that were at here, theyre still concerned about possibly one of the shooters being up high on a building. I just talked with a witness a minute ago who is describing one of the officers who shot and standing near it will offshore. The witness described about 50, he thought about 60 shots fired when that officer was hit. This is just one location. There are a number of other locations we have police right now that were seeing militarized. Theres an area around the college that seem to have veered in on a shooter there, lauren. Are you saying you spoke to an eyewitness who saw a Police Officer<\/a> shot . Reporter yes. Witness who was standing near an officer. It was one of the first couple of shots that he heard and the officer fell to the ground. Aufrgs was taken away injured. The witness is not sure how the officers conditions. We have heard reports what theyre saying Police Officer<\/a>s who were headed into the this is just one location that there was a report of ufrs down. We cautioned that early information based on Police Radio Traffic<\/a> that we were hearing on the way to the scene. When you hear that Police Radio Traffic<\/a>, is there a way to know when you hear an officer down announcement, that that does or retail. When he announced me, you heard right before that. Could it be duplicative. How do you know if thats that or difficult. There are two different locations, three locations where weve had report of an officer down. Again, weve been cautioned that radio Traffic Police<\/a> are too busy right now healing with the situation for us, too, get much information confirmed. We cant even approach the location here at our corner. Every time people walking along the street, moved a few steps closer to where they were. The officer said movered back, stay away. Theyre trying to block some of the cross streets. They dont know, you know, we got a clear bik which you are right now. One governor mourned, theyre trying to pick scott please stay with us. I want to go back with melissa. Do you have more details . Reporter just a little bit more witness information from the scene. Im reading it off of Dallas Morning News<\/a>. The protest have been so peaceful, in fact, that Police Officer<\/a>s were posing her pictures with protesters and people were commenting how wonderfully it was and what a good learning experience it was for her children. As a matter of fact the dallas pd has been live tweeting the entire event with pictures and talking about where the protesters were and notice on their twitter feed, right around the time this happened, i dont think they tweeted anything since. This is one of those situations where social media could be faster in many bits of information than we may get through traditional sources. Is there anything developing on social media that seems ahead of the curve . What melissa was just talking about, some of the officials inside the Dallas Police<\/a> department rp asking the media to sop broadcasting any Police Officer<\/a>s of Police Officer<\/a>. This is an on going situation. R. That would be local media. Right. The concern there being that the shooter is somewhere watching live News Coverage<\/a>. Which is a new development that the shooter can be up to date with the cell phone and the twitter just like we are and monitoring s. W. A. T. Teams as they go through these billings. What he tells us this is a nice resolved situation. For people who are unware, youve got two crime scenes so far. The action to the request the news media not reveal specificities about officer location. Absolutely. You dont want to put day shents play by play. This will set the scale sit. You want to get in there with surprise there. The key, lawrence, is do they have a witness, someone who saw where the shots originated for. 60 shots, 60 shots fired. Thats a lot if you have a rifle, thats a couple of third round mag vooazinemagazines, if shots were fired they should have picked up, you know, some heard it, saw it, looked towards it. You know, that could have certainly witnesses would see that right away and maybe they were able to hone in, you know o an area. Some of the trouble we have in the dc sniper case, you know, they didnt fire that much. They one or two shots and then they were gone, you know, we wound up, you know, chasing them for a number of weeks across the capitol region. If the shooter stayed and shot 60 rounds, they may have been able to get a location and been able to get closer. I want to go back to scotfree man who is on the scene in dallas, on the street there. Were you getting have you been able to speak directly to any nifrss there. When we came around the corner near them, they have yelled at us and everybody else on the street to get back, stay back out of the area. They dont want anybody approaching them right now. Its still a very active situation here. Im looking down the street right now and im seeing a dallas s. W. A. T. Vehicle, armoured vehicle gnaw, moving one corner looks like to the other end of the job down the street, youre now with guns drowned. You have multiple agencies on the scene, weve got a federal agent that weve seen out here in the last few minutes. Weve got Transit Police<\/a> and Dallas Police<\/a>, plain clothes an uniformed officers, s. W. A. T. Officers call came down to the similar. Really all of the road in and out of this sort of west side of Downtown Dallas<\/a> as we came in here, have been closed off and everybody who was out here, restaurants, in bars in the area, you know, just staying right now in the location because the officers dont want them to move at all, cross any of the streets. Scott, could you review for us the evidence that you heard from the eyewitness there . Reporter yeah, when i arrived here. I had an eyewitness who told me he was standing near a Police Officer<\/a> who was shot. They could not tell where the shops were coming from. They say they were other officers who were in the area who are looking up, immediately trying to figure out the direction of fire and from what the witness could tell, the officers were not able to pinpoint where the shots were coming from. That officer was taken away. The witness we talked to is not able to determine to be off the district. The witness described here, what he said 60 shot at the time. He said it seems like minutes. It felt like minutes because the shots continues and continued. Scott, do you know whether this witness is familiar with fire arms and familiar with distinguishing shots. Lawrence, i dont know. You know, its a chaotic situation when we got here, you know, talked to the gentleman and hes describing what he heard and saw. Im not sure how familiar he is, you know, with familiars. And what is your plan in covering this atlanta th this p. Youre kind of locked into one position there. At this point, you know, were trying to speak with Police Officer<\/a>s, our phone. We really cant phone, everybody who is out here right now. Immediately involved all of the officers down here immediate in voting. From where they had concerned or there may be an active shooter. And, scott, how much media is there. Oftentimes in these situations are newspaper selected in one stop. Are there news Media Resources<\/a> cut off from different areas. Its desperately spread out. The photographer i went we got separated around the corner. Were telling her to move to one side. So people are on cornered around e edges of where the action is happening here, scattered across the incident downtown. Scott, thank you very much of these live reports from the street there in dallas where shots have been fired during a demonstration, protesting plisz u r police use and deadly force. And other parts of the country. We have been covering this live, during the special edition of the last word, which has become live coverage of the situation good evening from new york. Im lawrence odonnell. Breaking news at this hour, there are reports of shots fired at a protest demonstration in dallas. Those shots resulted in the shooting of two Police Officer<\/a>s, according to reports, who were reportedly injured. Again, unconfirmed reports that there is a sniper with a long gun still at the scene. This was the scene in dallas within the last hour. 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