Katy Tur hosts coverage of national and international news, including breaking stories. Counsel. How much specificity would we get here in seeing a plea deal . Would there be things that are sort of kept from public view or would it be pretty clear what the guts are here . I dont think the first filing i dont think will reveal everything. In other words, i think the first filing, announcing the plea deal and that sort of thing is probably not going to spell out in great detail exactly what Information Cohen has to provide. We may have to await several weeks, several months down the road to find out the full scope of his cooperation and the full breadth of his information. Kristen welker, i think we have you standing by as well. The other aspect of this, we set this up at the top, Michael Cohen so close to donald trump for so long, that famous line where he said he would take a bullet for donald trump. Obviously in the last few weeks, yes, it sounds like hes been telegraphing this possible moment but still in the grander sort of sweep of things, Michael Cohen, this would be if this were to happen, this would be
quite a shift in their relationship. Any word on how the white house is reacting to this possibility . We know that theyre watching this very closely, steve. Weve watched the president s rhetoric as it relates to Michael Cohen really evolve over time. Remember when his offices were first raided by the fbi and President Trump referred to him as a good man, called it a disgrace that his offices were raided. And then in the wake of revelations that Michael Cohen secretly recorded a conversation with him, President Trump began to lash out saying what kind of a lawyer would tape a client, so sad. And thats when we really started to see his rhetoric escalate. The president s been asked if he thinks whether Michael Cohen will flip on him. The last time he was asked he said, no, im not worried because i did nothing wrong. Bottom line though, this was the president s former fixer, Personal Attorney. A lot of people think that he knows just about everything there is to know when it comes to then Candidate Trump and some
what . Reporter that is the most likely result but it isnt so much whats spoken about in the tape. Even if there was a failure to report or an inkind contribution that violated the law, its what else may be out there. Is this the tip of the iceberg. The rules of ethics in new york allow an attorney to tape surreptitiously a client but hes not supposed to make a practice of it. The ultimate question that the prosecutors surely have the answer to is did Michael Cohen make a practice of taping the president. If he did, theres a strong possibility that the prosecutors had that information and possibly had it for a long time. So then the next issue to be resolved is what is left for Michael Cohen to offer prosecutors so that prosecutors would give him that gem, the 5k1 danny, im cutting you off because tom winter has some news to report. Were getting official notification right now for myself and from my colleague, at 4 00 p. M. Proceeding of interest in the United States versus john doe, john doe believed to be the president s Personal Attorney, Michael Cohen, has been scheduled before judge Pauley 500 Pearl Street in new york. After that proceeding deputy u. S. Attorney robert could you zamy will make remarks at the entrance of the courthouse. At this point we believe to be a plea hearing involving the president s Personal Attorney Michael Cohen scheduled for 4 00 p. M. Today at Federal Court in manhattan. Thats the latest that we have. We dont have an understanding or official Court Paperwork at this point that would guide us in any way as to what these charges he will agree to. But i have now got an official word it is Michael Cohen at 4 00 p. M. I want to make sure were clear. The court is announcing theres a proceeding scheduled weve gotten the notice from the United States Attorneys Office saying theres a hearing of interest at 4 00 p. M. Today in u. S. Versus john doe. Ive been told john doe is Michael Cohen. Youve confirmed that joe doe is Michael Cohen. Thats right. And robert could you zamy who has been leading this prosecution because the u. S. Attorney, jeff berman, was recused from this case originally, hes going to make comments outside of court. So at this point we have a Plea Agreement involving Michael Cohen but the exact terms of this and what hes pleaing to, we dont have that. All the recording of discussions of a plea deal here and now the scheduling of this hearing, theyre not saying in their plea deal but you have confirmed this would be for the purposes this is for the purpose of a Plea Agreement, thats correct. At that time or shortly the Plea Agreement will become unsealed in Federal Court here in manhattan and at that point well be able to look and see what this is all about. But we have it and we know that were going to have a Court Proceeding at 4 00 today. Tom dupree, youve been through working on that side of
the law many plea deals. Take us through what would be going right now between now and 4 00 when this hearing takes place and what will happen in that hearing. Right now it sounds like theyve got everything in place. Normally you would finalize the agreement, get signatures and that sort of thing, although i have to imagine they probably have all of that locked down. Otherwise they wouldnt have made this announcement. I think between now and 4 00 the u. S. Attorneys office and look the fact that its the acting u. S. Attorney from new york personally making this announcement does tell you that this is something big. He wouldnt do it personally otherwise. I think theyre probably now going to figure out exactly how theyre going to present it to the public, what theyre going to say in the Press Conference and how theyre going to manage the public rollout of what does appear to be a plea bargain. What will it look like in court . Michael cohen will be there himself, personally stand up and attest that he committed this crime and that crime . You know, it can go that way. Typically at some point they will have the defend come in and kind of walk through those very
questions. Its hard to know just from what weve heard today whether that is the purpose of this afternoons hearing. It may be more of a for mallty in which the u. S. Attorney says they plan to tender a Plea Agreement and set an actual date in the future. I think we will know by 4 00 today what the terms of the deal are in particular, whether or not hes gotten fairly lenient treatment for whatever charges hes Pleading Guilty to. Danny, in terms of what would come next and i guess we will find out a lot more after this proceeding when we have somebody come out and tell us exactly what was agreed to there, what was part of this plea deal. But in terms of those bigger questions you were raising about beyond the tape, is there information, material that he might cohen might be able to cooperate with authorities on. This is the Southern District of not, this is not robert mueller, the special counsel who has been investigating here. Is there any potential for those two forces to intersect at all . Reporter of course. Theyve intersected. They always intersect. Theres no barrier and if there is any plea deal or Cooperation Agreement, part and parcel of that or implied in that is that the Southern District of new york can share information with the mueller team and any other district u. S. Attorneys office that it sees fit. Thats pretty standard. What will happen today and what will tell us a lot is what exactly Michael Cohen, if he plead, what crime he pleads to. If it is something thats not as serious as some other potential crimes that hes been anticipated to be charged with, that will tell us a lot about any deal hes entered into but dont expect any sentencing any time soon. Its standard procedure to push off sentencing way off in the distance while the prosecutors build their case against the other big fish and determine how much assistance the cooperating witness can provide. If thats what Michael Cohens
doing, he can expect to be cooperating and providing whats called substantial assistance in order to secure that precious 5k1 motion, that motion that the government will make if and only if cohen has cooperated enough to their satisfaction that it warrants a motion and cohen can get that precious level reduction at sentencing. It can make the difference of decades when it comes down to that final sentencing range. Tom winter, i want to be clear on your understanding right now of this. Pleading guilty, is there a Cooperation Component to this . What do we know about that . Youre asking all the right questions to which we have no answers at this point. Typically what well see in a situation like this is theyll make the announcement that theres going to be if theyve already been indicted theyll make an announcement of a plea hearing. At that point the Plea Agreement would be announced and we would get details as to all the things that danny was just ticking off for us there which is essentially, okay, what are the
offenses that this person has agreed to plead guilty to, is there any sort of a Cooperation Agreement involved, what would the potential sentencing look like. Well get that all in Court Paperwork. We dont have that yet because our understanding is that Court Paperwork has not been unsealed. We just know that we have this proceeding, this hearing at 4 00 p. M. Thats going to be held at Federal Court inside i believe the courtroom where Danny Savalas is standing outside of. So all the things that we might normally have answers for were doing this in real time. Typically we get all the paperwork at once because these things are packaged and ready to go but this is a pretty fluid and dynamic environment where they were close to a deal, they were talking it through trying to put it all together and now we know that were going to at least have this hearing. Once we get the documents and once theyre unsealed with the court, then well be able to kind of lay this all out there. Quickly, i want to make sure were clear on one thing here. Is it possible that he goes into this hearing today and he just
plead guilty and thats it. Absolutely. So this Cooperation Thing we dont know about yet. The cooperation is still a big Question Mark at this point. Were going to have to wait to get the Court Paperwork to understand where this is going. Joining me on the phone is Michael Avenatti, the attorney for stormy daniels. Obviously weve been talking about this tape. Michael avenatti, i want to get your reaction to the news youre hearing with the rest of us. Well, im not surprised by the news. The only thing im surprised about is that it took this long. I think for the first time on msnbc back in april i stated that ultimately he was going to be charged and roll over on the president and im going to maintain that position. I think the likelihood well, i know the likelihood of him providing information damaging about the president is 100 . How do you know that the likelihood is 100 . Because ive been active in connection with the case on behalf of my client. Ive been active in
communicating with people in Law Enforcement. Theres no question that hes going to be providing and has provided information thats damaging to the president. Information of what nature . How specific . What would you know there in terms of what the information would be . Information relating to financial dealings that had gone on between him and the president during the 10 to 12year time period for which Michael Cohen served as the president s personal counsel. Of all the people that the president should have showed loyalty to beyond Vladimir Putin, Michael Cohen should have been second on the list. Some would have argued that he should have been first on the list. You dont put a guy that has your inner most secrets on an island and treat him the way that donald trump has treated Michael Cohen and ultimately its going to come back and bite him. Im trying to make sense here. Are you saying that the information would be related to this hush money payment, the potential there for a Campaign Finance violation . Are you saying that information
will be related to Something Else . No, its broader than that but includes it. Tom winter sorry, this is a very fluid situation. We have Tom Winter On Set Reporting News and i thought he might have something to break there. I apologize for that. Again, we should say we dont know yet as tom winter was just reporting, we dont know what will happen when Michael Cohen walks into this courthouse today if there will be an agreement here that extends to cooperation, if theis will simpy be a guilty plea. We dont know the charges hell be pleading to. Michael avenatti, youre saying you expect him to be doing a lot more here. What do you expect the next step then would be after today . Well, let me be clear about something and i think you need to make it clear to your viewers that regardless of whether the documentation today formally includes a Cooperation Agreement, that does not mean that theres not cooperation thats ongoing, nor does it mean that there will not be significant cooperation going
forward. I want to be really clear about that. But there is no doubt in my mind, zero doubt in my mind that Michael Cohen is cooperating and is going to further cooperate in connection with information thats going to be damaging to this president. Theres no doubt in my mind. Let me bring thing we still have tom dupree with us. Tom, what do you make of that, this possibility of cooperation from Michael Cohen that would extend beyond what weve talked about in terms of Hush Money Payments . What do you make of that . How do you interpret what were seeing here . I dont always agree with michael but i do in this instance. I think hes absolutely right. It would shock me if cohen is not 100 cooperating with the u. S. Attorneys office at this point given the nature of the charges hes facing, given what he has said publicly about protecting his family and prioritizing his family. Thats code for saying i am ready to cooperate. I find it very doubtful, almost zero percent, that the United States Attorneys Office for the Southern District of new york
would have entered this plea bargain with cohen absent meaningful cooperation across the board. Kristen welker, do you have something to report . Just a little reminder of one of the data points to all of this, steve, which is that back in july we reported that cohen was prepared to share the information that he had with investigators and that includes the fact that he is alleging privately that hes aware that Candidate Trump was informed about that meeting that donald trump jr. Had that with kremlinlynched attornkremlin kremlinlinked attorney. Of course the white house has pushed back and said that that is not the case. Again, thats where things stood last month. Now, will he still be prepared to tell investigators that . We dont know as tom has been
reporting very precisely. It remains to be seen whether hes going to cooperate with investigators as a part of this plea deal. But the bottom line that is a Critical Data point as we continue to track this and in the wake of that revelation, remember thats when we saw Rudy Giuliani trying to undercut the credibility of Michael Cohen to try to paint him as someone whose word cannot be trusted and again pointing to the fact that he taped the president without his knowledge. So youve seen this sort of hit on his credibility as this has moved forward. Thats one of the things that we will be trying to drill down on as we continue to track these developments today. I think we can put some video up for folks to look at. Michael cohen entering the courthouse there just a few moments ago. This is in new york city, Lower Manhattan. Michael cohen entering the Federal Courthouse there. Actually, thats 26 federal pla
plaza, the entrance to the federal appeals. He can surrender to federal Law Enforcement officials. That picture right there that were seeing from cnbc, thats Michael Cohen entering 26 Federal Plaza which is the location of the new york fbi field office. From there, steve, hes going to be in position to he will actually i believe be fingerprinted and that will start the criminal process for him from the standpoint of actually at that point entering into this Plea Agreement weve been talking about. Thats essentially where its at and thats where he is. The courthouse from there, it is likely that they will drive him to the courthouse and then from there hell make his appearance. He will announce his plea and then i expect that we will see him this afternoon. Theres really no underground entrance or exit that he will go through at either one of the
courthouses. We should see him again this afternoon but i would be surprised if the fbi didnt actually drive him directly over to the courthouse once hes gone through. Again, this video from cnbc is Michael Cohen approaching 26 Federal Plaza in the field office for the new york fbi where hell be booked. This is the same thing we saw with rick gates, same thing we saw with Michael Flynn for example. So this is that same process. In those particular cases we saw them go to the Washington Field office for the fbi. In this days were seeing Michael Cohen at the new York Field Office because thats where hes being charged. Very good information, thank you. The topic here, obviously the relationship between Michael Cohen and donald trump, the speculation now that begins furiously about what this means in terms of Potential Cooperation here involving donald trump. Donald trump was asked recently, i think it was back earlier this summer, about the potential for Michael Cohen to one day flip on him and this is how the
president responded at that point. Are you worried Michael Cohen might flip . Look, i did nothing wrong. You have to understand, this stuff would have come out a long time ago. I did nothing wrong. Is Michael Cohen still your friend . I havent spoken to michael in a long time. Is he still your lawyer . No, hes not my lawyer but personal lawyer, not anymore . I always liked michael and hes a good person. Are you going to do you mind if i talk . I just want to know if youre worried hes going to cooperate with federal investigators. No, because i did nothing wrong. Got it. Again, that was donald trump reacting earlier this summer to the possibility of Michael Cohen turning on him. Michael avenatti, i think we still have you with us. You were saying a few minutes ago you felt the president didnt treat didnt necessarily think things through given how he treated Michael Cohen. Is there something the president could or should have been doing this summer that would have short of a pardon, that would
have changed this potential outcome or was the pardon the only recourse he had at that point . Well, i think perhaps at that point it was the only resource. The seeds for this were sewed long ago. Frankly, when you trust somebody with your inner most secrets that are this damaging, you need to 25take care of him. He should have taken Michael Cohen to washington, shown him some degree of loyalty. The problem here is that the president s conduct is about to catch up to him. This is a man that has shown zero loyalty to people with the exception of Vladimir Putin over the years and hes demanded absolute loyalty from everyone else in his life. And now what youre seeing is youre seeing that catch up to him. Again, theres zero doubt in my mind, zero doubt, that Michael Cohen is cooperating, is going to further cooperate with prosecutors against the
president. Theres zero doubt that theres going to be significant damaging information provided and ill also note the following. Our civil case has been stayed pending the outcome of Michael Cohens criminal matter. I would expect that stay to be lifted on September 10th at the Court Hearing in los angeles and this likely means were going to get an expedited deposition under oath of the president of the United States as to these issues. Its going to be interesting to see if hes going to sit for a Deposition Opposite of me and what hes going to answer in response to my questions or whether he is going to plead the fifth amendment. Wouldnt that be a moment in american history. How long do you think that will take to play out . We have a pending motion to that deposition that we filed months ago. Again, i think the stay is going to be lifted on September 10th and i would hope to be able to depose the president by the 1st of the year under oath and we can ask him questions about what he knew and when he knew it and what he did to cover it up. Michael avenatti on the phone there, were going to pause for one second because Jonathan Deas has been reported this story. Jonathan, bring us up to speed on what you know at this moment. The very latest, again, this hearing set to take place at 4 00. Two sources familiar with the expected plea deal say that the charges will include tax fraud, bank fraud and a Campaign Finance violationrelated cha e charge. Well hear more about the Campaign Financerelated violation if that part of this deal goes forward. Understanding that this is if and we dont know yet but do you
have any sense and is your reporting telling you at all if this Campaign Finance question involves that payment to Karen Mcdougal thats discussed on the tape . Thats whats been reported for weeks and weeks so you have to think that but i dont want to go out on that limb until i see the paperwork. Sometimes there are developments that prosecutors and the fbi that we were not aware of that will come out of left field. Thats where it appears to be going. To reinforce jonathans point, i was able to speak with someone who said were not going to get the Court Paperwork until he makes his appearance at 4 00. Thats unusual. Normally we would have that in advance and we would be able to read out to you exactly what it is that hes pleading to. So this is still a pretty fluid and dynamic environment. However, we see Michael Cohen here at 26 Federal Plaza, the new york fbi field office, presumably surrendering himself. This is Going Forward and were still hunting around for the specifics. We have Daniel Goldman, a former u. S. Attorney for the Southern District of new york joining us as well. This was your jurisdiction and that piece of news we just got here from jonathan, how do you interpret what youre hearing now . A Campaign Finance violation may apparently be a part of this plea deal. Right. I was just on with jonathan over on nbc and he wasnt sure at that point about the Campaign Finance deal. This makes more sense to me because if Michael Cohen is cooperating in the Southern District of new york, he would have to plead guilty to every crime that he committed. It is possible that we know for example that he was under investigation for bank fraud, tax fraud and Campaign Finance fraud or at least that was reported. So the fact that he is Pleading Guilty to that is consistent with him Pleading Guilty pursuant to a Cooperation Agreement. As tom winter correctly pointed
out and jonathan is right to be a little circumspect, by the time that Michael Cohen walks in to the fbi at 26 Federal Plaza, this deal is locked and loaded. It is now time for him to go in front of the judge. He is going to have to admit to the crimes that he committed and he may be asked whether he committed them with anyone else which will be something very interesting to listen to. But this is very consistent with Michael Cohen and his television lawyer, lanny davis, being very quiet over the past three weeks or so which is consistent with Michael Cohen meeting quite frequently my guess is with the prosecutors, giving them all the information that he has about the crimes he committed and those crimes that he committed with others and perhaps even other crimes that he wasnt involved in but he knows about. Hes provided all of that information to the prosecutors. The prosecutors have vetted that information. Theyve corroborated it with all of their own evidence and they would have to make sure that they believe Michael Cohen and
that he is truthful and that they can corroborate what he said and then go forward with a Cooperation Agreement. Take us through, again, this question of if this starts to get into areas that might overlap with the jurisdiction of robert mueller. How would that be sorted out . I think it would be a function of Robert Muellers team would fly to new york and meet with Michael Cohen. I think he would be sharing information with any Prosecutors Office in the country that may have information, but obviously most relevantly with the special counsels office. I would fully expect that his cooperation is complete. In the Southern District we used to tell people who wanted to cooperate you cannot pick and choose who you cooperate against. If you are going to cooperate, you need to be all in and you need to tell us everything you
know about everyone. That has included in the past peoples relatives. Donald trump is certainly not Michael Cohens relative and given his public statements over the past couple months it is not a surprise that he would be meeting with the government and providing them information relative to their investigations including perhaps about donald trump, the Trump Organization or any of the trump children in charge of that Trump Organization. Again, a little less than 90 minutes from now, 4 00 p. M. Eastern time, Michael Cohen we are expecting will be entering that guilty plea in Federal Court in new york. You see the tape thats been looping on your screen there. Thats apparently Michael Cohen turning himself in essentially for processing a few minutes ago not too far from the courthouse. Thats also in new york city. I believe we still have Kristen Welker with us. I want to ask you again, the reporting we just heard from jonathan that this Plea Agreement that will be announced
apparently at 4 00 apparently will include a Campaign Finance admission to a Campaign Finance violation. That brings this beyond taxing medallions and into the realm of the president ial campaign. What has the white house been saying on that front . Reporter its just a Stunning Development and of course as jonathan was just reporting, we will be listening very closely if the judge does, in fact, ask if anyone else was engaged in that. Of course, the white house has pushed back vigorously against any notion that the president may have violated Campaign Finance laws, but the story has really changed when it comes to those payments, those potential Hush Money Payments including the one with stormy daniels, initially for example Sarah Sanders saying the president wasnt aware at all, the president also touting that line but then of course revelations that that wasnt the case. So that had been increasingly
problematic for this president and for this white house. Just to take a broader step back at what this white house is facing right now, its not just Michael Cohen. Theyre also watching very closely the Paul Manafort trial. This is an administration that spent last week dealing with the revelations in omarosa manigaultnewmans book, one of President Trumps former aides. This white house has been dealing with controversy aft aftafte after controversy. This one relates to the president s former fixer and Personal Attorney, arguably the one that may hit closest to home because that is the person thats the closest to mr. Trump before he got into office. The white house watching this closely and again, steve, were hoping to see the president today. It is pouring rain here right now in washington d. C. So its not clear that we will be able to get questions to him when he departs for West Virginia later today. Hopefully that is our expectation. We still have jonathan with
us on the set. I wish you could see this at home. Jonathan and tom have been reporting this story as they sit here on their phones. Jonathan, let me ask you the Bigger Picture in terms of the road of how it came to today, to Michael Cohen and this plea deal hes about to enter at 4 00. Weve been Hearing Rumblings and comments that certainty suggested he was looking in this direction. How long did it take to get here, when did it intensify . What do you know about the road from there to here . It began with the search of his home that caught everyone by surprise here in new york when the fbi went in and seized those documents, those tapes and thats where the road began. Then over the course of time it has evolved from Michael Cohen will take a bullet for the president , never turn on him, to Michael Cohen is going to do whats best for my family to sort of Radio Silence for the past couple weeks as hes been engaged in plea talks with the Southern District of new york of exactly what hes going to
apparently plead guilty to at 4 00. 20 million in Potential Bank Fraud crimes are part of this case, so you have that. It will be interesting to hear in court today the Campaign Finance issue. As we see this tape of him surrendering, thats the fbi offices in Lower Manhattan. Hell go in there and be fingerprinted, be photographed like any other defendant and be driven out of the garage by fbi and irs agents who led the investigation into this case, over to Federal Court where hell be escorted by u. S. Marshals and presented before judge pauley in the Federal Courthouse for his presentment and apparent Plea Agreement. Everyone is stressing that just because they have an agreement verbally, nothing is official, nothing is done until 4 00 when he says the words, i plead
guilty, yes your honor in court and thats expected to happen at 4 00 this afternoon. Daniel, again on that question of the Campaign Finance violation, obviously the speculation is it involves Hush Money Payments, the tape with the discussion of Karen Mcdougal back in 2016. The idea of a Campaign Finance violation, when we talk in the news a lot we generally think of it in other contexts at least as something where the penalty is more of a slap on the wrist, a fine, that sort of thing. In this context here, the seriousness of a Campaign Finance violation . Well, it is serious. It would not carry nearly the Sentencing Hit that the bank fraud in particular might carry and the tax fraud as well. Its still a lighter sentence than those crimes. But it would probably involve jail time in and of itself when
lumped in with bank fraud and tax fraud. Were looking at a number of years in jail that Michael Cohen would be facing. Were sitting here about an hour and a half before the guilty plea, steve, when we will know the answer whether or not this is a Cooperation Agreement or a Plea Agreement. Just to explain it a little bit, because i think people just assume that all Plea Agreements are Cooperation Agreements. That is not at all the case. Most Plea Agreements are simply a defendant going to court and admitting to the crimes. He gets a little bit of a Sentencing Break for doing that and not putting the government to the test of a trial. A Cooperation Agreement is a different thing which requires many meetings between the doeft and t defendant and the prosecution and evaluating that individual to determine whether they want to offer him a Cooperation Agreement. As part of the Cooperation Agreement process, generally people have to admit to every crime they committed which is
more than just simply what the government has investigated. Now, someone and i dont want to speculate but someone like Michael Cohen who over the past couple of months weve learned about some of his at least shady dealings as it relates to pay to play and some of his consulting agreements even if those arent criminal, it would be a bit of a surprise if the only crimes Michael Cohen ever committed in his life happened to be the ones under which he was investigated by the u. S. Attorneys office. So theres a lot of moving parts that as i sit here trying to analyze it lead me to think that part of it favors a Cooperation Agreement, part of it favors a straight Plea Agreement. We will find out at 4 00. It would be a surprise if he just pled guilty and was not cooperating given that thats the real way that he can reduce his sentence. Jonathan, do you have something to add . The New York Times just posted a story saying theres no
Cooperation Agreement as part of this plea deal. Will is an experienced Law Enforcement reporter in new york. He reported that its a straight guilty plea as was being explained. Kristen welker at the white house, i understand you have some news as well. A source familiar with the matter tells me that we can expect some type of response likely from the president s legal team after these Court Proceedings have taken place. So everyone here at the white house, the president s legal team watching this with intense interest along with the rest of us to determine exactly what the details are. Again, this is a president who went from staunchly defending Michael Cohen, someone who was his former fixer and Personal Attorney to attacking him, attacking his creditability. Rudy giuliani has been attacking his credibility as well, so will that continue after todays Court Proceedings . Well have to wait and see but again, thats when were expecting our first response
from the president s inner si circle. Everybody is going to be watching closely. Theres the Bigger Picture drama of Michael Cohen going from saying he would take a bullet for President Trump to this day here. Weve heard very Different Things over the last couple of months when you compare it to where we are right now. Weve been seeing on the left side of your screen scenes from a few minutes ago, Michael Cohen turning himself in essentially for processing in Lower Manhattan here in new york city. 4 00 that plea hearing is scheduled. We expect that he will be Pleading Guilty to several crimes. Keeping an eye on the situation there. Obviously this is a very fluid situation right now. Weve got jonathan and tom reporting this story as we speak. We are going to squeeze a quick break in here but obviously this story will continue just on the other side of it so please stay with us. Card card i get unlimited 1. 5 cash back. Its so simple, i dont even have to think about it. So i think about mouthfeel. I dont think about the ink card. I think about nitrogen ice cream in supermarkets all over the world. I think about the details. Fine, i obsess over the details. Think about every part of your business except the one part that works without a thought your ink card. Introducing Chase Ink Business unlimited with unlimited 1. 5 cash back on every purchase. Chase for business. Make more of whats yours. At priceline, to save you money. Ways like mixing and matching airlines to get lower prices on flights. Oh, thats how i saved on my trip oh, for your wedding . no, my exboyfriends wedding, hes confused. Jason mix and match airlines to save more. Ive been Making Blades here at gillette for 20 years. Theres a lot of innovation that goes into making americas 1 shave. Precision machinery and highquality materials from around the world. Nobody else even comes close. Now starting at 7. 99. Gillette. The best a man can get. We are juggling all sorts of legal drama, all sorts of legal anticipation this afternoon in new york city. Just over an hour now, standing by for that announcement of a plea apparently involving Donald Trumps former fixer, michael
cohen. We are on verdict watch. Potentially the jury reached a decision. They awaited instructions for the judge who told them to go back and keep deliberating and who also suggested that he might be willing to live with a partial verdict. We have with us right now ken delaney standing by with Daniel Goldman outside that courthouse in northern virginia. I saw the skies opened up a while ago. It looks dryer right now. Ken, the possibility of a verdict there, is there a chance were going to get that this afternoon . You summed it up well, steve. We think we may well, only because the note that the jury sent to the judge earlier today suggested that they had reached consensus on some or even most of the counts. I can read it to you because the text is important. The jury said, your honor, if we cannot come to a consensus on a single count, how should we fill in the Jury Verdict Form for that count and what does that mean for the final verdict. That suggests theyre having trouble with one, maybe a handful of accounts and the judge sent them back to deliberate. This is a massive set of charges, 300 exhibits, 22 witnesses. If they plowed their way through most of it, its reasonable to suggest they may have a verdict today and if they cant reach a consensus on this count, the judge may accept a partial verdict. Are you picking up any reaction, at least initially from the prosecutors from the defense side how theyre interpreting this . The defense wanted the judge to hand the jury a verdict form that included a third option for mistri mistrial. That was never going to happen. That would be a defense lawyers dream. We tried to get reaction from them as they were exiting the courthouse and manaforts lead
lawyer, we asked if that meant a deadlock on a single count. He said they didnt know and theyre waiting as we are. Daniel goldman, in terms of how this typically works in a case, how often do you see a jury like this . How often does the judge answer like this . What does that typically result in . Any light you can shed on that . This is very typical, steve. Quite often, particularly in cases with this many charges, the jury will come back and say that theyre deadlocked on all or some of the charges and the judge, at a certain point, and this was a little bit early because the jury had not mentioned it before they came with the note, the judge may send them back and say, keep trying or like he did today and read what is commonly referred to as an alan charge, which is a fairly lengthy speech that he gives the jury to tell them to reconsider the evidence, try to
work together and no other jury is going to be better than you, no other presentation of the evidence is going to be better than you and he did tell them that this case is going to have to be disposed of somehow and theres no better jury or presentation of the evidence. So, do your best to reach a verdict . But, my guess is that theyre back in there. Theyve been working for almost three hours now after the judge gave that instruction. And i agree with ken. I do think by the end of the day, we are likely to learn more about what the jury has decided, including, quite possibly, a par partial verdict. The judge said he would take a partial verdict. Something appears to be imminent down there in northern virginia. We thought earlier this afternoon that would be the entire focus of the legal drama this afternoon. It is now part of the focus, Daniel Goldman and ken delaney. Thank you for joining us from there. The other part of the drama involves developments in new
york city, about an hour and eight minutes from now, were expecting that Michael Cohen is entering a guilty plea. He has turned himself in. This was just a few minutes ago, you see him right there in the act of turning himself in for processing there before this guilty plea, which is expected to be entered at 4 00 in Federal Court in Lower Manhattan. That has taken center stage. Joining us jeff mason and back with us former Deputy Assistant general tom dupree. We had our Investigative Reporter who has been all over this just before we went to that break, he was talking about the possibility at least, we will see, we dont have any Hard Reporting on this right now, but the possibility that what Michael Cohen enters there at 4 00 will just be a guilty plea. He will plead guilty to a set of crimes and misdeeds. He will not be the possibility that there will be no Cooperation Agreement announced. What do you make of that possibility . Its intriguing from my perspective. It is all to be determined. But i think it would not surprise me if this was a bare bones proceeding. He comes in and says hes changing his plea to guilty and the judge accepts the plea and schedule a further hearing at some point out. This is the sort of thing where this can be done a whole bunch of different ways and depend in large part on how forthcoming the prosecutors want to be at this point. What we dont learn today i suspect we will learn in the next week or two once documents are filed and we can flush out the scope and breath of this agreement. We can also put up for you Michael Avena ttti taking to twitter. He said Rudy Giuliani, buckle up butter cup, you and your client completely misplayed this. What do you make of this, the
speculation was cohen angling for some sort of a pardon and would trump come through with that . Avenatti was making the argument that trump should have just taken, should have taken cohen to washington with him. You know, set him up real good there so this would never cross his mind. Was there anything trump could have done or should have been doing here . Thats the interesting thing. Michael avenatti loves to give trump back his tweets and fire right back at him. Im perplexed as to what michael thinks the president should have done. I think when cohen started sending signals that he was ready to cooperate and prioritize his family and i think many people interpreted that as basically a request for the president to preemptively pardon him. However f t however, if the president would have done that that would have unleashed a political firestorm. The ca im not sure what the president or legal team could have done to prevent this day from happening
short of pardoning cohen, which is, i said, would have caused all sorts of fireworks. We have jeff mason with us, as well. Again, White House Correspondent with righters and he actually interviewed the president last night, so, jeff, again, this, the reporting here that a Campaign Finance violation would be part of this Plea Agreement thats announced about an hour from now. A lot of speculation here, but the possibility that donald trump and the Trump Campaign could become part of this Plea Deal Story at 4 00. Yeah. It will be very interesting to see what the deal is and what sort of implications it has for the president. Obviously, im sure that people here in the white house are covering it closely or watching it closely. We didnt know this yesterday during our interview with the president or we, obviously, would have asked him about it. He did speak to us yesterday about what he calls the witchhunt, the mueller investigation. And gave his another sort of reiteration of his skepticism and frustration with that probe. But this will no doubt be a very Big Development in that whole process. And in terms of the mood youve been picking up there, whether it was last night or just in the last couple weeks as this possibility of Michael Cohen, you know, pleading and then, again, this other open issue there of whether any cooperation, this idea that he would flip on trump. What has the mood been around the white house about that possibility . I think sometimes you can deduce a little bit about the president s mood by watching his twitter account and what he chooses to pick on the scapegoat be it the press or somebody else. In our interview yesterday it started out we werent quite sure if he was upset about something but he warmed up and it ended up being a long interview and a good discussion. But in terms of the overall, its hard not to imagine that this is something that is weighing on him and weighing on his staff. Joining me now by phone we
have daniel, senior counsel for the Democracy Program and an expert in the area of Campaign Finance, Campaign Finance law. Dani daniel, good person to talk to now with the news being reported by nbc that part of this plea deal at 4 00 will include a Campaign Finance violation. I was talking to one of our guests earlier. I am used in the political context of a Campaign Finance violation and used to viewing it as something, the action they take amounts to a slap on the wrist. How do you look at it in this context . Well, its a pleasure to be joining you. And youre right. Normally your Garden Variety Campaign Finance violation did not amount to much. Whats different here is, of course, that if the Campaign Finance violation is knowing and willful, that means you intentionally violated the law and get a lot more serious. Thats a criminal violation. So, you know, if Michael Cohen pleads that he knowingly advanced payment to stormy daniels, you know, with an interest towards Tinfluencing Te president ial election, that is a crime. That is far beyond the Garden Variety thing you see at other Campaign Finance agencies. What kind of penalty and what kind of punishment would come with a crime like that . You know, it can range from a large fine to prison. Those are all on the table when youve got a situation like that. It is, obviously, the prosecutor in the discussion can speak more to that. But it really depends. But it is something that you can go to prison for. In terms of what we will hear in court today, again, our reporting that hell be Pleading Guilty with Campaign Finance and how much more do you think well expect to learn about that. Would he be asked to answer
about others in the campaign. Others who might have been involved and others that may have had knowledge. That sort of thing. That is a great question. Any time you make a campaign contribution, that contribution also needs to be accepted. And it is actually legally possible to make an Illegal Campaign contribution. But the person youre contributing to didnt accept it. On the other hand, if as, you know, has been reported, this was a payment that was discussed with someone in the Trump Campaign and was coordinated with them. Then it would be effectively a contribution they also accepted. And that could potentially implicate other folks. It really depends on the sort of facts that come out. But right now, theres no guarantee that it will impact anyone other than Michael Cohen. Daniel, a Campaign Finance expert. Thank you for taking a few minutes. Jeff mason from rigeuters, as well. Again a very busy hour here and it is only going to get busier the rest of this afternoon about an hour from now we expect that guilty plea in Federal Court from Michael Cohen. I am going to wrap things up here for my part. Dont worry, ali velshi is standing by. What an interesting point you just discussed. If Michael Cohen did something that constitutes a Campaign Violation act, interesting to find out whether the person to who benefited from that donald trump, is deemed to have accepted that. And, of course, i think thats what prosecutors are going to be very interested in hearing if there is a Campaign Violation aspect to the charges that Michael Cohen is going to be pleading to or we expect he will at 4 00. Thank you for your coverage of this. Good afternoon, everybody. Im ali velshi. One of the president s closest aides. Somebody who has worked closely with him for years has made a deal with federal prosecutors
comparemela.com © 2020. All Rights Reserved.