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The latest Political Developments of the day and interviews with top newsmakers are featured. Now, the defense was deep into its opening statement. The prosecution had finished their opening statement. Look, this is a dry case about tax evasion and bank fraud. But hanging over it is this enormous pressure that you can almost feel on Paul Manafort. He must be spending millions on this case. He has a team of Defense Lawyers. Hes wearing a suit to court, but hes going sleep in jail in a green jump suit. Hes facing 10 years in this case, another 15 in d. C. The government said that they had two dozen witnesses, and 100 documents, and theyre they essentially portrayed a story of greed and lies. They say that Paul Manafort reaped some 60 million for his work for this ukrainian oligarch, had it paid to avoid 15 million in taxes. And when the spigot turned off in 2015, he started milking banks, continuing to commit tax fraud. What was interesting to me, what was the defense going to say . Because it doesnt seem like they have much to say. But the defense is hanging its hat on trying to impugn rick gates, manaforts right hand man and turned states evidence and will testify against him. They are portraying him as someone testifying to save his own skin. There was a massive indictment filed against manafort and gates before gates flipped. So the government is say thing case doesnt rest on any one particular witness. Manaforts Defense Lawyer tried to argue if there was tax evasion, it wasnt willful. He didnt mean to file a false tax return. Chuck, im old enough to remember when a political scandal was something that included tax fraud, bank fraud, and immense dpreegreed. But i guess times have changed. Can you take us through your analysis whether Robert Muellers investigators and prosecutors are ultimately able to convict Paul Manafort will still be able to compel testimony from him . I think thats right. Look, its easier, nicolle, when somebody pleads guilty and cooperates as rick gates did. But even if mr. Manafort is convicted at trial, and i expect he will be, by the way, it is, as ken said, a very, very strong case. If hes convicted at trial, they can compel him to testify against others. They can immunize him, strip away his Fifth Amendment privilege, and even do it after an acquittal. So the government has a number of paths open to it, to compel manafort to testify if he doesnt change his mind and made guilty and cooperate. At this point, with Opening Statements being delivered in alexandria, hes going the long route and will not cooperate. The convention when the republican platform was changed. Theres a reason paul is in the position he is today and corey is not. Its not because paul is amateur hour. Ive heard that other people ask, is the family on the outs with paul . Total nonsense. We couldnt be more happy with the work hes doing, the way hes handling the organization of everything going forward. Hes done a phenomenal job. I wish we had him on earlier. I wish we had him on earlier, and Robert Muellers interest in the relationship between donald trump and Paul Manafort, these are some of the questions that were published earlier this year. Robert mueller wants to know what knowledge the president had of any outreach by his Campaign Including by Paul Manafort to russia. I think you cant overstate the importance that Paul Manafort had in securing the republican nomination with donald trump. Youve got to remember that its a time when Paul Manafort entered the campaign, donald trump had just lost in wisconsin, and his operation had no organizational apparatus where they were going to secure the delegates that were needed so that he would actually get the nomination and not have a contested convention. And Paul Manafort did quite a good job of quelling the uprising, too. At the time, ted cruz was still alive. I want to just bring this back to this big russia question. Again, its not a coincidence that Paul Manafort was on the dole for the russians. Heres jamie bash on our program at the time he said this, it blew my mind, but it seems more possible that jeremy was on to something. Its possible that russia actually dispatched Paul Manafort to the trump campaign, or at least Paul Manafort attached himself to the campaign, the russians said our agent is now on the inside. And they tried to manipulate the campaign not just through propaganda but through agents of influence. So when he said that, i was watching homeland and i thought it was like an episode. But what do you make of the possibility . It certain hi seems possible. At this point, it would be hard to rule anything out. Manaforts links to russia are so deep and there are lots of dark shadows in that story. Remember, he worked for free for donald trump. Nothing is for free. Nothing is for free, and we know theres been reports that he owed quite a bit of money to people overseas. And certainly as pointed out in the beginning of the block, russia is not on trial here, but russia is shrouded throw this whole thing. Theres been a study the last few days, starting with Rudy Giuliani, talking about collusion is not a crime. But that has been the argument throughout. Theres no collusion, no collusion. And the crime is conspiracy. But thats not the argument what is the value to the larger Mueller Probe of trying Paul Manafort right now . There may be a lot of value down the road if they convict him and he is compelled to cooperate or volunteers in some way. But theres another important thing to remember, nicolle. In the course of their investigation of russia interference, the mueller team came across a guy, mr. Manafort, who broke lots of laws and lots of different places. So really they have a binary choice. They can walk away from it, which makes no sense, or they can charge it, which they did. So even if there is ultimately no spillover effect, this is what prosecutors and agents do. They find a crime and they charge it. Frankly, they convict on it. I also wanted to say one thing about collusion. Collusion is a crime. Collusion is a crime because its the crime of conspiracy. Its a synonym. If this comes down to synonyms, that just strikes me as astonishing. The words bank heist dont appear in the Criminal Code either, but bank robbery does. The House Of Cards seems to be getting wobblier and wobblier, and i dont know if wobblier is a word. Well look that up for you. Bring us back to mr. Gates. You mentioned at the top of the show that they were going to blame mr. Gates. Hes a cooperating witness, until Robert Mueller says he isnt. And he was around this white house, he was around this west wing, in and out of the white house for meetings after Paul Manafort was gone. Talk about his role in the drama starting to unfold there. Well, what the defense is saying while Paul Manafort was off in ukraine doing his important work, gates was back home managing the finances. Thats going to be the defense story. Theyre going to put a lot of the blame on gates. I dont think that theres anything in the evidence that suggests thats going to work. But it will be interesting to him, that George Papadopoulos was i mean, these are not coincidences. They paint a clear picture of conspiracy. The National Security adviser pled guilty to lying not just about anything, but talking about nobody forgot meetings with the spanish leaders or the leaders of mexico or canada. They all forgot about contacts with russia. Its incredible that the white houses message about this Paul Manafort trial, Paul Manafort may be an international criminal, but when he worked for us, he wasnt committing these crimes. Doesnt say a lot about their judgment. But we dont know that he wasnt committing these collusion crimes. Whether he came to the campaign as an insert from the Russian Intelligence Services or whether he got there and had a debt to a Russian Oligarch, he was reaching back out to that Russian Oligarch during the campaign, offering briefings, selling access to the campaign. And he was reaching out through a known russian intelligence asset. Who was wandering around the Rnc Convention in cleveland. This comes back to the ludicrous and the obvious. The news today is this trial is under way, but the picture is what it always is with donald trump, in bed with many, many different russians. They have a Foreign Exchange program where ambassadors come to different conventions. [ Overlapping Speakers ] but they dont lead to platform changes in the rnc Platform Committee meeting. Its very odd coincidences abound when it comes to the russians. Thank you for starting us off. When we come back, Rudy Giuliani puts collusion in the same category as obstruction, saying he would not submit his client to answer questions to Robert Mueller on either topic. What that says about his clients innocence or lack thereof. And Donald Trumps Secretary Of State tries to clean up the boss offer to meet with the leader of iran without preconditions. And news that the north koreans may have duped donald trump. And how basketballs brightest star is making a fool out of laura ingram. Stay with us. Diabetes are excited about the potential of onceweekly ozempic®. In a study with ozempic®, a majority of adults lowered their blood sugar and reached an a1c of less than seven and maintained it. Oh under seven . vo and you may lose weight. 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Common side effects are nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, stomach pain, and constipation. Some side effects can lead to dehydration, which may worsen kidney problems. I discovered the potential with ozempic®. Oh oh oh ozempic® vo ask your Healthcare Provider if ozempic® is right for you. There was no collusion between me and my campaign and the russians. No collusion. No collusion. There was no collusion at all. No collusion, which i knew any way. No coordination, no nothing. Its a witch hunt. He knows a synonym too when he sees one. Trump today following his lawyer, Rudy Giulianis new defense, not so much no collusion, but as he tweeted this morning, collusion is not a crime. But he adds, that doesnt matter because there was no collusion except by Crooked Hillary and the democrats. I want to ask you, how successful this white house has a good success rate at reprogramming the mantras to his base. But are you picking up skepticism about this abrupt and public about face when it comes to the question of collusion . I think theres been a little bit of skepticism in the republican ranks i think piers morgan, its not really the piers morgan test here, but hes been a strong supporter of the president and he raised a few concerns about the statement in the past couple of days. But look, i think what youre seeing from the white house is a sense that things are getting a little tighter. You have the manafort trial. You have Michael Cohen sort of seeming like hes talking. You have these russian indictments. So things are creepy. And you have this looming deadline of labor day. Traditionally, the Justice Department does not take action close to an election, and there is a sense that mueller is a traditionalist and will be on this, and something is going to happen. There are a lot of people here in washington who think its going to happen before labor day. That deadline is getting close. I think you get a sense that the pressure is mounting on the white house right now. Do you have a sense, matt miller, that bob mueller feels hemmed in by tradition by the way things are usually done . Im told by senior Justice Department officials that what the many bodies there are doing is investigating to prosecute crimes. But it seems like a known unknown at this point whether or not they have ruled as to whether or not they can or cant indict the president , whether or not yeah, thats right. You know, they dont talk about any of this. Its not just with bob mueller. On these big questions, these are questions that would come to rod rosenstein. He would have the power, if he wanted, to overrule the department of justice opinion that a sitting president cannot be indicted. But bob mueller has spent a good part of his career at the Justice Department, rosenstein the same way. I suspect that both with respect to the question of indictment and this question that lisa brought up about the 60day unwritten rule that you dont do anything about the election, i think he will respect it. I think especially of what jim comeys experience of stepping in right after i think theyll go dark. Rudy giuliani, he ru he rud out questions about obstruction, because even the president s closest friends, yeah,ky see that. But hes now ruled out questions about collusion. So im not sure what theyre going to talk about. You said maybe you would let him answer a few questions on collusion. Given some of the revelations of the last three or four weeks, we have gone further away from answering any questions from them. We dont think they have a legitimate investigation. So thats Rudy Giuliani for the smear mueller investigation, not speaking as to whether or not his client can answer questions about collusion. The president thinks hes his best advocate and can clear his name. He can walk into that room, charm investigators, walk out. No one else thinks thats a good idea. But he is someone who would purger himself three times in seconds. Giuliani has done some things well. With the mueller camp silent, Rudy Giuliani has done a good job establishing some public goal posts to this investigation. And in the media coverage, we have seen that muellers poll numbers have dropped since Rudy Giuliani came on. And he reupped his harshest attacks on sunday. Putting other things in the fog machine that Rudy Giuliani likes to dominate. But do you think theyll be able to put to bed this tease and dance about an interview . At some point, they would have to. It seems like every day rudy is ruling out things he can be asked about. What theyre using is the interview as a way to undermine the credibility itself. Hes not going to sit down for an interview because this is not a legitimate investigation. And i think theyre using the interview to take another whack and whack at mueller to try to undermine whatever it is he might find. 98 days out from the midte midterms. Are you picking up angst that republicans would like a clearer shot other than whether or not collusion is a crime, whether or not donald trump will do an interview with bob mueller who may or may not be in Donald Trumps view, part of the witch hunt . I think what makes republicans nervous is what they dont know. There is a question some republicans will argue that these things have a short shelf life. That something that would have dominated the conversation on the Campaign Trial for three weeks, now lasts a week or a couple of days before the next explosive thing comes out. And with everything that is explosive, then maybe nothing is explosive. But one thing we know is clear is that this constant stream of revelations provides a consistent shot of adrenaline to democrats. So thats part of why youre seeing the sustained enthusiasm on the democratic side. You had protesters who had been transformed into volunteers, transformed theoretically into voters. Every week their decision to be engaged is getting reinforced by this continual news cycle about this investigation. So thats certainly not making republicans happy, given that midterms tend to be base elections. You look at the other political calls that donald trump has made in days of late. Hes threatening a government shutdown. Hes threatening to build the wall. Hes much more concerned with going back to his Greatest Hits and rallying up the base than he is helping out republicans in tough swing districts. Lisa, thank you for spending time with us. President trump calling his North Korea Summit a Great Success . But a new report says theyre basically ignoring him. Are iran, russia, and now north korea just laughing at us . Well discuss the great unraveling, thats next. So you have, your headphones, chair, new laptop with 24 7 tech support. Yep, thanks guys. I think he might need some support. Yes start them off right. With the School Supplies they need at low prices all summer long. Save 200 on this dell laptop at office depot officemax. Wanted to help the school. They would put these signs on the door to let the teacher know you didnt cut off the light. The teachers, they would call us the energy patrol. So they would be like, here they come, turn off your lights those three young ladies were teaching the whole school about energy efficiency. We actually saved 50,000. And thats just one school, two semesters, three girls. Together, were building a better california. We now have a very Good Relationship with north korea, and the big thing is, it will a total denuclearization, which is already starting to take place. Sites have been blown up where they had the testing. Were not looking up in the air. Any rockets up there . Any rockets . President trump has declared how much progress hes made with north korea over and over, tweeting the day after the summit in singapore, theres no longer a nuclear threat. But not so fast. It turns out those assurances may have been premature, or just plain lies. New reporting from the Washington Post shows there are signs that north korea is constructing new missiles. The findings show ongoing activity inside north Koreas Nuclear facilities at a time when the countrys leaders are engaged in armed talks with the u. S. The report doesnt stop there. Joining our conversation now are my guests. So i heard from folks close to the president who give advice to him on politics and other things, this was a midterm strategy. He was going to run in the midterms as a strong leader on the world stage, as the one man in American History that wrestled the north Korean Leader to the ground. Turns out not so much. Its becoming clear that he got played by kim jongun, and that he got played by putin. And that he has a direction that is incoherent, reckless Foreign Policy thats just based off of photoopes. What type of event can i put together that makes me look president ial but doesnt accomplish what is in the best interest of the country . Thats what were seeing today. I dont disagree with any of that. But how do democrats turn that into a message that motivates their voters and takes away from the donald trump capacity to project themselves as a strong leader, despite the fact that all the evidence is to the contrary . Theres nothing weaker than getting duped by kim jongun. Theres nothing weaker than Donald Trumps Foreign Policy, but i dont see democrats surging ahead of donald trump on the question of a strong leader. I would do what republicans would do if this were a democrat. Lie . No, wage a strong, potent Campaign Questioning someones fitness to be in office. You have a president , who in front of the entire world, was pandering to vladamir putin. He gave him everything he wanted. And if that had been a democratic president , you probably would have had him impeached and tons of advertisements run against a democratic candidate this keeps me up at night. Hillary clinton said you cant have a Commander In Chief that can be baited by a tweet. Thats what we got. How can democrats not get ahead of him on the question of ability or qualifications to be Commander In Chief . I think we need to do a better job as a party in terms of mounting that argument against the president. Because he we cant let him take this we cant let him take the strength card, either in 2018 or in 2020. Theres obvious examples of this president being weak and being able being pushed around by foreign leaders, caving to strawmen. And if democrats dont figure out a good message to push back and be the stronger candidate in 2020, shame on us. So its long been thought of in president ial campaigns that in 2004, they dont turn on questions of Foreign Policy but they do on strength. Now you have this caricature that is deep into the publics mind and in part because of your question in helsinki about donald trump as putins puppet, you have him failing in north korea by any object tich ive an, he was cleary duped by north korea. Its more than just an affinity for dictators. It i mean, it does seem that when the tweet came out of nowhere, the allcaps tweet about iran, i thought okay, next summit will be in uae. That is part of his Foreign Policy, that stage craft. We know how much he battles that personal rapport. It was interesting that he seized upon a mundane comment from tehran mother of all wars. Which is something they say a lot. But he decided to inflame this. Thats no question he will be his conduct in these summits and what he may have given away, the legitimacy that he may have given to kim jongun and vladamir putin, we still dont know what was given away in that one on one meeting. What democrats have, there are so many lanes that you could run if youre donald trump, you have to be smart. This is one of those. But you have to do it effectively. It is classic to give away secrets to the president of russia, to be at odds with your National Security officials. How do democrats turn this to their advantage . Hes the quintessential wizard of oz. He blusters but hes masking weakness. He has these summits, where he likes to play on the world stage. But anyone can get a good deal with north korea if you dont ask for anything in return. And he makes excuses. So what democrats will do i dont think it will be a partisan midterm election. But the next president ial candidate for the democrats will have to figure out that donald trump, because of his recklessness and his lying, is making the country less safe. And the prrepublicans used t care about these questions of National Security and are awol at best. I think it just shows how follow the republican Foreign Policy establishment, their beliefs in what they were purporting was. I do think theres a place for a more robust Foreign Policy, Ban Now John Bolton Works for the man who exactly. So you see how much of this has been bluster for big donors for or their own hawkish aims. I hate to be that cynical, but you see how little belief they have. And john kelly is here to stay. What do you make of that . He was going to leave, now hes not going to leave until he does. Yes, it is undeniable that he just wanted to make the year mark and that would be enough. And suddenly today, we have kelly being asked by the president to stay on through the reelection in 2020 and kelly agreeing. This could all change in a tweet. This is it is an attempt to project a little stability. Kelly, who has revealed himself to not be nearly as strong in that white house, hes still fairly popular among republicans. Theres a sense if hes still in charge, thats helpful. He does certainly has improved the efficiency of some aspects of the white house. But he has zero control over the president. And the president at this point, doesnt want an empowered chief of staff. He is content and hes going to have very little effect on policy and politics. Was this story in reaction over the weekend . I think it was not a coincidence. All right. I still wouldnt be buying any green bananas if i were john kelly. When we come back, forget shut up and dribble. How the world is a better place today all because lebron james refused that advice from laura ingram. What hes saying about president trump. Thats after the break. Electronic Dance Music year early to join the nba. And its always unwise to seek political advice for someone who gets paid 100 million a year to bounce a ball. Oh, and lebron and kevin, youre great players, but no one voted for you. Millions elected trump to be their coach. So keep the political commentary to yourself, or as someone once said, shut up and dribble. Im cringing for you, laura. Of all the unsolicited advice, that may be the most humiliating. Stay in your lane, lebron james, just be quiet and play basketball. How is this, the eye Promise School is open in akron thanks to lebron james foundation. 240 third and fourth graders with plans to expand over the next four years. These are atrisk kids with free tuition, free uniforms, plus career and emotional support. So no, lebron james isnt sticking to dribbling. Here is what he is saying about donald trump. We are in a position right now in america more importantly where this whole race thing has taken over, you know, and because, one, i believe our president is trying to divide us. But i think kind of . Yeah, is. Is, not kind of. Hes dividing us, and what i noticed over the past few months, hes used sports to divide us, and thats something that i cant relate to. What would you say to the president if he was sitting right here . I would never sit across from him. You wouldnt talk to him . No. Mike is an author and msnbc contributor. What do you make not just of what lebron james putting his money where his mouth wasnt, but doing by deeds what other people dont seem to do in the time of trump, and what do you make how triggered some on the right were about his having opinions on politics or race at all . If you look at this young mans life, nicolle, his life speaks to the possibilities of this country. And he has put his money where his mouth is. I mean, if you look at somewhat he has done, just in terms of ern education and in terms of his hometown akron, this i Promise School is one of the greatest things ive ever seen a professional athlete be involved in, in this country. Hes already sent thousands of kids to college in this country. If you look at what hes done, before his career is over, the contributions he has made to his country, i love theyre talking about the president last night, he would have been way more qualified than the guy we have running the country right now. He also is filling a void created by whats happening in washington. Its not just donald trump debasing the office of the presidency, but hes got in the congress these enablers of the worst tendencies. I wonder if we think this is a moment, thinking of coach kerr, steph curry and lebron, rivals in basketball, but joining forces, saying whoever wins, we will not go to the white house. What do you make of all this . I think its been eloquent and powerful and i think its been important. When you have Basketball Coaches and players doing what elected officials are supposed to be doing, and speaking to the best country that were supposed to aspire to be, thats a very cool thing. Thats activism put into practice. Nicolle, elected politicians are supposed to make lives better. Somebody show me how lebron james isnt doing this with his foundation and his i Promise School, and sending atrisk kids and giving them a better chance and a better life. Hes doing what the guys in washington are supposed to do, except so many of them now spend their days hiding under their desk. Its also and im sure this isnt lebron james motivation, but lebron james is richer, more famous, more popular, women like him more than trump. It is a Great Trump Troll. At the end of the day, he couldnt care less, he doesnt know half the senators are in either party. Its a Great Trump Troll to go out there and be and do all the things donald trump cant be and do in this country. Trump could go after him the way hes gone after the athletes who knelt during the national anthem. He cant hurt lebron. He cant do anything to lebron. We live in a world where, in his world, no turn goes unstoned. But look at what has happened to other athletes who tried to be activists. Colin kaepernick cant get a job. Its a shameful thing in the National Football league. But in a way, lebron james is speaking for everybody. Popp is speaking for everybody. Steve kerr is speaking for everybody. And all of these people, who have this boneheaded idea that somehow if you come out of the world of sports, youre not qualified or entitled to speak about that better country that i was just talking about, then youre nuts. I agree with you. Well let the table get in on this lebron james epic troll of donald trump. We have to sneak in a break. Well be right back. Of bias in the workplace. Really. Never heard of it. The question is. Whos going to fix all of this . An actor . Probably not. But you know who can solve it . Business. Because solving big problems is what business does best. So lets take on the wage gap, the opportunity gap, the achievement gap. Whatever the problem, business can help. And i know who can help them do it. Booking a flight doesnt have to be expensive. Just go to priceline. Its the best place to book a flight a few days before my trip and still save up to 40 . Just tap and go. For the best savings on flights, go to priceline. You may be learning about, medicare and supplemental insurance. Medicare is great, but it doesnt cover everything. Only about 80 of your part b medicare costs. A Medicare Supplement Insurance Plan may help cover some of the rest. Learn how an aarp Medicare Supplement Insurance Plan, insured by Unitedhealthcare Insurance Company might be the right choice for you. 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Lebron talks about as a kid in akron, he road a bike and he says it helped him get out of the neighborhood and every student is getting a bike. Lupica, why does the nfl let itself by led around by the nose by this president. Why is the nba so much more comfortable letting their athletes speak for themselves and trying to help the communities theyre serve and the nfl seems incapable of inching close to doing that for their players. Its interesting, nicole, they have an Anthem Policy in the nba that was collectively bargained for by both the owners and players and nobody to my knowledge has crossed it in a long time. The nfl owners the president isnt going half to go after lebron. The owners have been so cowardly, they talked a good game when this became a Big Story Last September now theyve come out with this policy where the players can stay in the locker room. Nobody is looking out for the players who were simply protesting social injustice and they got dragged into this false narrative that they were disrespecting our military and disrespecting our flag. Weve had this conversation, dissent is as patriotic as the fla flag. And Michael Hayden said if he had to choose between Colin Kaepernick and this, he chooses colin cappkaepernick. One of the things that donald trump beat 16 republicans and then hillary clinton, its the apolitical nature, half celebrity, half archie bunker. Why dont the democrats Fight Fire With fire and why arent the democrats recruiting athletes and celebrities, people that get under Donald Trumps skin. Theyre recruiting a good crop of house members who are National Security officials, who served in the military, who are small business. So people who come to the table with substance which i think a lot of American People want right now, let me go back to this whole thing about what Laura Ingraham and what she said, as an africanamerican what i heard was know your place. And appreciate lebron has stood up, more athletes need to stand up and be active out there. And the leagues need to give them the cover to do that. And trump is infatuated with going after black male athletes and theres a reason why he does that. Speaks for itself. All right, mike lupica, we have to sneak in our last break, dont go anywhere, well be right back. Even have to think. So i think about mouthfeel. I dont think about the ink card. I think about nitrogen ice cream in supermarkets all over the world. I think about the details. Fine, i obsess over the details. Think about every part of your business except the one part that works without a thought your ink card. 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