Broadcast on a wednesday night. Thank you so very much for being here with us. Good night from our nbc news headquarters here in new york. Good evening from new york. Im chris hayes. Were in the midst of live, ongoing coverage of the house judiciariry committee markup. The two articles ever impeachment against the president of the United States that of course congressman jim jordan of ohio speaking right now. This is a standard part of legislative process, the markup. It happens all time. But tonight obviously its quite difference in the import because it is the most serious constitutional activity the Judiciary Committee can pursue. Tonight the committee will be hearing different amendments and debating the two articles before
them. We expect them to be voted on by the full committee tomorrow. Weve already heard Opening Statements from House Judiciary Chair jerry nadler and Ranking Member doug collins. Heres how the chair presented tonights meeting. Taken together, the two Articles Charge President Trump with placing his private political interests above our National Security, above our free and fair elections, and above our ability to hold Public Officials accountable. This committee now owes it to the American People to give these articles close attention and to describe their factual basis, meaning, and importance. I believe that three questions should frame our debate. First, does the evidence show clearly that the president committed these acts . Second, do they rise to the level of Impeachable High Crimes And Misdemeanors . Third, what are the consequences for our National Security, for the untintegrity of our electio and for our country if we fail to act . We expect to hear fiveminute Opening Statements, with i is not normal. Usually its the chair and the Ranking Member. Theyll be alternating between the democratic and republican members of the committee. Usually the members go through the bill and mark it up. They make amendments. This is a little different than a normal markup because its not a long piece of legislation where people are trying to insert provisions or knock out others. Its the articles to impeach the president of the United States. There are just two articles, abuse of power and obstruction of congress, the whole thing just nine pages long. The democrats have already unified behind the language thats presented. Mostly it is an opportunity for the members to make their arguments for or against impeachment. Whether anyone will be persuaded is a different story. Joining me is zerlina maxwell, nick akerman, former assistant Watergate Special prosecutor, and maya wiley, an msnbc legal analyst. Ive been struck just as weve been watching in the first hour the tone is a little different in prime time than it has been during the day. Yeah. Slightly less sort of like clownish and kind of anticridden. Yeah. And a bit more serious. Well, thats good. I think its about time the republicans take this seriously because this is serious. I think, you know, you dont see the histrionics probably because they assume there might be a few more people who are paying attention because now this is official. We have the articles of impeachment officially on paper, and now all of the members are going to give their fiveminute statements as to why the case has been made. I think, you know, the thing that always percolated in my mind ever since really the Mueller Report was that donald
trump is a cheater, and you have to stop a cheater. We were talking about something as sacred as our elections, there is no hesitation in trying to prevent somebody from treati cheating in an election. People died for our right to vote and theres nothing more si sacred in our country. I think what we were seeing from the daytime during republicans was their effort to get their sound bites that were going to be shown on evening tv. Now theyre on evening tv, so its a very, very different animal for them. And to zerlinas point, you know, and to your point too, chris, the evidence is the evidence. So theres no really debate about changing the articles except to make arguments about whether or not you think theres sufficient evidence. This is why you heard chairman nadler saying, look, the question is what the president
did, whether you think its impeachable, and what this means to the nation. I want to just actually take some of the statements of representative ted deutch of florida. And they responded almost immediately, and they told me what they were feeling, and what their friends were feeling. And they confirmed the worst. Their faith in our democracy is shaken. One of my kids said, trump has made me feel like our country is failing. Hes taken away americas common sense. Another said, if our democracy is fragile were in the midst of the house enough to be manipulated by the president , then i worry for our future as a country. Why is our democracy so fragile . Well, the president smears the
press as the enemy of the people. He attacks verifiable facts and calls them fake news. He attacks opponents in the ugliest and most hateful ways. He degrades diplomats, and he lashes out at law enforcement. He questions the patriotism of those who have bled on our battlefields. He questions americas leadership in the world. He believes russia over our intelligence community, russia over our nato allies, russia over ukraine. All these things break longheld american positions of leadership in the world, and theyll all be a part of the next election. But were here at this moment to protect that election. The president s ongoing attacks
on the 2020 elections and his effort to cover it up, that is why were here tonight. The president s abuses of power to cheat americas voters and threaten our National Security, he welcomed russian interference in the 2016 election. He solicited interference by ukraine and by china in our 2020 election. The ongoing pattern of this president s abuse of power is obstruction of investigations, refusing to turn over even one document. Thats what requires us to act now. This is a moment that the president has forced upon us. These are the high crimes that violate the supreme law of our
nation, the constitution of the United States. When my kids were younger, we taught them to tell the truth. We all teach our kids to tell the truth. If youve got nothing to hide, honesty is the clearest path to putting trouble behind you. You know thats true. Everyone does. If the president had not awbuse his power, if everything he did was truly perfect, he would have asked no, he would have demanded that everyone who works for him come forward and tell the truth and bring all of their documents with them. Let them speak. Let them all speak. But instead of ordering his staff to tell the truth, he silenced them. What message does that send the
next generation of American Voters . The next generation of american leaders . The president violated his Oath Of Office to defend and protect the constitution. We cannot allow our children to believe that the abuse of power by the strongest leader in our country is acceptable or that its normal. Yesterday my daughter sent another text. She said, it feels like were losing the battle to get people to care about democracy. Im worried we wont be able to fix it. President trumps violations threaten to break the foundation of our democracy. Impeachment and removal from office is the only way to fix it. I yield back. The gentleman yields back. Point of order. The gentleman will state his point of order. We started this proceeding tonight, and we on the Minority Side do not have the current
amendment in the nature of substitute to hres 755 because the one we have says the abuse of power is article i and the other is obstruction of congress, and we keep hearing about crimes. We should be able to have the amendment that includes the crimes youre talking about. The gentleman will suspend. That is not a point of order. Mr. Buck. Thank you, mr. Chairman. How will history judge this impeachment . I believe the American People will remember this impeachment effort unkindly, instead remembering democrats have been resisting and looking for an excuse to impeach this president since the day he was elected. There were false charges that protrump russians had shut down the power grids in vermont. A frivolous lawsuit was filed claiming Voting Machines were rigged in three states. More than 50 House Democrats boycotted President Trumps
swearingin ceremony, including the chairman of this committee. The Washington Post ran an article titled the campaign to impeach President Trump has begun on january 17th, 2017. Strangely enough, the article was posted at 12 19 p. M. While the inaugural ceremonies were still happening. The aclus Executive Director stated, we think that President Trump will be in violation of the constitution and federal statutes on day one. Then the genre of assassination and personal harm began with Kathy Griffin posing with a model of trumps severed head. And actor Robin De Niro using his tony awards speech to say f trump, id like to punch him in the face. Then came the efforts to impeach based on the Emoluments Clause and calls to remove President Trump under the 25th Amendment due to insanity. Then democrats and president obamas Holdover Appointees began to run roughshod. On march 21st, 2017, representative Maxine Waters tweeted, get ready for impeachment. March 21st, 2017. On may 16th, 2017, representatives from this committee began the or a representative from this committee became the second member of the house to raise the topic of future Impeachment Proceedings. Representative brad sherman and al green introduced the democrats first impeachment resolution for Obstruction Of Justice and russian interference in july of 2017. Representative cohen, then the Ranking Member on the subcommittee on the constitution and Civil Justice introduced five articles of impeachment against President Trump in november of 2017. Representative tlaib said, were going to impeach the blank during a january 3rd, 2019 swearing in ceremony. What about may 6, 2019 when representative al green said, im concerned that if we dont impeach this president , he will get reelected . Then democrats could not let go of the russian collusion story even after special Counsel Robert Mueller stated in his report that the Trump Campaign did not coordinate with russia. In fact, when representative green forced a vote, 95 colleagues of ours voted in favor of proceeding to impeachment on july 17th, 2019. 16 of our democratic colleagues on this committee voted for that. Its clear that my democratic colleagues have prejudged this case. They have ignored the president s right to assert executive privilege, asserting this a court case to determine the bounds of the president s privilege will take too long to serve justice to the American People. Democrats are so righteous in their belief that President Trump must be impeached that they ignore plain facts. Professor turley was right when he said, this impeachment,
quote, will be the shortest investigation producing the thinnest record of wrongdoing for the narrowest impeachment in history, end of quote. At the end of the day, i want to invoke the words of my colleague from the rules committee, congressman al c. Hastings who said during one debate that the majoritys efforts would backfire. He said, you will lose. This will cost you the majority next year, and some of you arent going to be here in the next congress. I hope youve had your fun. Well, i tell my colleagues, go ahead. Vote to impeach President Trump tomorrow. But when you walk out of this hearing room, call your Freshman Colleagues and tell them theyre not coming back and you hope theyve had their fun. Say goodbye to your Majority Status and please join us in January Of 2021 when president
trump is inaugurated again. I yield back. The gentleman yields back. Ms. Bass. Mr. Chairman, this is a sad day in u. S. History when we have to vote on articles of impeachment because donald trump has abused the power of the office of the presidency in his attempt to cheat his way to reelection. This evening we will begin the process because of the uncontested approved by congress be withheld and until a vulnerable ally Publiclia Nounced an investigation of the president s top opponent in the upcoming election. Fortunately he was caught in the act by a brave patriot who took the risk of anonymously reporting and Military Assistance was finally released. However, during the eight weeks President Trump withheld military aid from our ally, at least 13 ukrainians died in the field. I know ukraine is farl away and it might be difficult to imagine how and why this country should be of any concern to us here. In part it is a matter of us
honoring our commitments, but it is more than that. When countries arent stable, they can collapse, Blood Alcohol Content failed states and be taken over by governments hostile to the u. S. Or become fertile grounds for terrorist organizations. Military assistance was withheld from ukraine that left this country vulnerable to a neighbor that had already invaded its territory. As a member of the Foreign Affairs committee i regularly meet with heads of states and i often have to apologize for some embarrassing statement or tweet the president has made. Since the ukraine scandal ive faced questions from leaders around the world. They ask, what is going on here . Is this presidency just an anomaly or has the u. S. Presidency been permanently diminished, weakened, corrupted . Has something fundamentally changed in the u. S. . The world is watching how we handle this crisis. There are many nations attempting to reestablish or create democratic governments
after decades of autocratic or corrupt rule, and they are looking to the United States. When members of congress travel we emphasize importance to the rule of law and conduct free and Transparent Elections that are fair to their citizens. Now members of congress have to acknowledge the challenge we face in our country. But we explain because of the u. S. Constitution and bill of rights, when efforts are made to Eare Strilkts and limit the right to vote, we are free to speak out and challenge our government. We preach Good Governance and transparencies. We insist countries fight corruption, and one of the best ways to counter abuse is to encourage people to come forward and report. But to ensure when people do come forward, they are protected and remain anonymous. We explain in the u. S. There are specific laws that protect people who come forward. Congressional delegations come and go, but there are thousands of federal employees who live and work around the world from the state department, usaid. These patriots work in difficult conditions. What message does it send around
the world when they see the president and his supporters attack and attempt to reveal the identity of the patriot who took the risk that exposed trumps abuse of his precedency, his abuse of power . What message does it send when the world witnesses the president and his supporters denigrate, disrespect and harass a patriot . This is another example of why the action of this president threatens u. S. National security. The president s defenders shout coup, hoax and demonstrate their 150 loyalty to the president while offer the record acknowledge his wrongdoing. People from around the world understand this as autocratic behavior. They know if they step out of line they might lose their lives or in this instance they might lose their election. The president has forbidden everyone in the administration from guantanamoing even when subpoenaed, leaving the only
tool available to us, impeachment. This is not a coup, and its irresponsible to label a constitutional process a coup. It is the responsibility of this committee to follow the constitution. The world is waiting to see if we will hold ourselves to the democratic principles we there cyst others up hold. When we demonstrate our ability to peacefully hold our leaders accountable, we have an opportunity to show the world how a mature democracy handles the crisis. We have the opportunity to show the world our democracy remains strong and it is this president that an anomaly. We have an opportunity to demonstrate in the world and in the United States no one is Above The Law including President Trump. This is why we must adopt articles of impeachment and take the First Step Towards relieving our nation and the world of this presidency. I yield back. That was democratic congresswoman karen bass of california making the case for impeachment. Well continue to dip in and out throughout the markup. I should tell you soon ill be joined by laurenance tribe whos one of the lawyers been asked to
join for his advice and also took to a member of the u. S. Senate who will be probably receiving this question very soon. Right now ill have our nick acroman weigh in on what were hearing. We listened to the republican of colorado. This has been the theme here. The arguments are the process is terrible, they wanted to impeach him any, this whole thing is determined, and were going to win again. Very, very, very little about the facts or even a defense of the conduct. Thats because they cant address the facts. I mean the facts are uncontested here and the facts are terrible for donald trump. I mean, there is no dispute that he was using almost 400 million of the peoples money to try and leverage against the Ukrainian Government to get them to announce an investigation into the bidens and to open an investigation into this crazy theory that the ukrainians not
the russians were the ones who hacked into the Democratic National committee, when there are 12 russians and a grand jury in the District Of Columbia indicted for doing exactly that. I mean, they are not addressing the facts. This is what i used to hear as a prosecutor when i had a drug trial, and i had the drugs in the defendants hands. I had all the evidence against the defendant, and what would the Defense Lawyers do . They would talk about everything but the facts, and thats exactly what were seeing here. So heres another fascinating detail to all this, right . Were listening to republicans and democrats. Democrats tend to make arguments based on the record, right . They could be right or wrong, but theyre basically based on heres what he did and why its wrong and republicans about you just hate him and thats why youre doing this anyway. This is piece by laura litman in bloomberg today. Senate republicans say theres consensus building within their
ranks for a short Impeachment Trial that could see a likely acquittal of President Trump without hearing any witnesses. Apparently the word that is coming down from Mitch Mcconnell is dont even call witnesses. Who like and that to me is such a tell. Am i wrong about what they think about the strength of the case . Youre not wrong. Theyll accept evidence into the record and there is some. They can accept the testimony, transcripts but not allowing the American Public to hear directly the evidence that has mounted against donald trump. And i actually think nick is being a little kind, which is im shocked. They have actually had two lines of defense which is trump is concerned primarily with Corruption In Ukraine and the other was the military aid was released, which is evidence somehow he wasnt holding them hostage for military aid. I think the reason nick is being kind is they obviously think thats so weak, theyre not asserting it. If they had enough facts to make those points clear, they would have some defense that i think could be credible to the American Public. They dont have that. But not do anything, to not put on any case i think is politically the American Public is going to look at this and say what have these guys got to hide . Im also thinking back to several scandals. I feel in this moment it reminds me of the Birther Scandal where donald trump Wasnt To Hawaii or sent investigators to hawaii and just like wait until you find out what i found. And he never told us. And thats to my point. Rudy said almost the exact same thing. So in some ways they dont have a defense. I think theyre not putting it up because they dont have one but also they have a different plan. I believe theyre going to try
to do emails 2. 0 with this joe biden story through election day regardless of what happens here in these impeachment hearings. The one thing i try to do here and i want to bring in just a moment Laurence Tribe, the one thing i try to do is i try to force myself to be as fair as possible and think about this through the other lens. And its true i remember during the Clinton Impeachment i was, whatever i was 19 years old but there were two things true about bill clinton. Democrats and republicans told themselves there was a witch hunt trying to bring this guy down from day one. It was also the case what clinton did was bad and wrong, and he did it. And i dont think he should have been impeached for it. I think they were right he wasnt impeached, but because there are people who want to take you down is not exculpatory under conduct. Even if you want to concede the premise which, yep, a lot of
people want to impeach the guy from day one, that says nothing what conduct has been. I want you guys to stick around and as were watching the house consider articles of impeachment, i want to bring in Constitutional Law Professor Laurence Tribe and he cowrote a book. Professor tribe was invited by the committee this past weekend to advise members as they were considering how to draft the articles of impeachment that are being marked up this evening as Opening Statements continue there in the committee room. Professor, talk to me about this sort of your understanding of the kind of precedent, constitutional import of abuse of power and obstruction of congress as high crimes and misdemeanor . Well, those are the classic high crimes and misdemeanors. Abuse of power is what the impeachment clause was all about. The idea of using the power of the presidency not to protect the nation but to benefit ones self and especially ones reelection. In the debates around the framing of the constitution The Big Question about the Impeachment Power was do we really need it or is it enough because the president will have to stand for reelection if its going to be ahead of him. And the answer to that was what if he corrupts the election process . What if he uses his power to reframe the election so that he rigs the system . We cant afford to wait. That was the whole reason not to wait for the election to take place. So when we hear some republicans saying that abuse of power is not a crime, theyre missing the point. It is the highest crime against the constitution. And in this case the impeachment articles are carefully written to show the aggravating circumstances. This isnt just using the president s power to benefit himself. But its doing that in a way that endangers our National Security and that corrupts the electoral process by inviting foreign involvement. So as a historic matter, this is the clearest case weve ever seen of the use of the Impeachment Power especially when you add the second article which basically says the president will not in any way corrupt with the process the way all prior president s have if he stonewalls, if he directs his whole administration to answer no subpoenas, to submit no evidence, and at the same time says you cant indict me and you cant investigate me. And for all practical purposes you cant impeach me because im not going to turn over any
evidence, then we really do have a president whos a dictator. And if this Isnt Impeachable as many have said, then nothing is. Thats the theory of this case. There was discussion about a third article, at least according to reporting and in conversations ive had offtherecord as well about a third article of Obstruction Of Justice that ultimate wasnt includedp. There was a sense from some members of the congress it would rely on some record created by the Mueller Report which was not Something Congress itself had amassed and that might be dicy in a number of ways politically. What is your feeling about that, about the choice to not have Obstruction Of Justice be part of it to the degree his acts might be brought into a senate trial . They could be brought in because in this case both article i and article ii contain important clauses about the pattern of the president s behavior. The first article says that the president s invitation of foreign intervention in our elections is consistent with what he did in 2016. And the second article says that the president s obstruction of congress is consistent with his obstruction of Government Investigations into prior wrongs. So that there are two big windows in these articles of impeachment that allow the evidence to come in. And we dont need to complicate things by throwing in a completely separate third article in which undoubtedly people would say, well, its premature. The issue of Whether Don Mcgahn will be forced to testify is still in the courts. Simple and clear was the way to go, and i think these two articles of Impeachment State the cases strongly as it can be stated. And you notice that the republicans who are speaking have nothing to say about them. They really have nothing you
know, just astonishing, no defense. And i hear rumors that they dont even want to put on a defense in the senate either, that they want to have a trial in name only where they dont call live witnesses, they just have papers shuffling back and forth. Its quite a tell as you said. It shows that they dont have a defense. And i think that if for no other reason than to hold the President Accountable to history and to hold those senators who are not going to listen to the evidence accountable, its really important that these articles of impeachment be voted and that there be pressure on the senate to hold a meaningful trial. I want to take a listen to martha roby for just a second here. Hes an interesting figure. Shes retiring. Shes in alabama and has a bright political future ahead of her. Lets take a listen. I have the distinct honor to
represent the hardworking people of southeast alabama. They have placed their trust in me to represent their values and be their voice here in congress. This revered and longstanding oath serves as a Guiding Principle for every decision i make as a member of congress. For the record, let me be clear, i believe in the rule of law. I believe that no person is Above The Law. I believe process is vital to this very institution. I have stated time and time again before this Committee Process matters. Without abiding by a framework that adheres to our constitution, we are charting a course that does not follow our countrys founding principles. Whether you identify as a republican, a democrat or independent, whether you agree or disagree with the president s policies, whether you like or even dislike a president , the American People should feel cheated about what has taken
place here. We sit here tonight without all the facts of the case because the majority decided to conduct an incomplete and inadequate pursuit of the truth. Many questions remain. With the consequential decision of impeaching a president , it is our right and duty to the citizens of this country to properly use the powers of congressional oversight, to adjudicate impasses through the courts and arrive at actual undisputed facts of the case that all americans regardless of ideology can agree are truthful and honest. In the Impeachment Proceedings of president nixon the underlying facts were undisputed. In the Impeachment Proceedings of president clinton the underlying facts were also undisputed. Here before us tonight that is not the case. The articles of impeachment before this committee do not meet the necessary requirements
nor have they followed an exhaustive pursuit to meet the facts of the case. For the sake of our country and for the future trajectory of this body i implore my colleagues to take a hard look at the course of this investigation. It has severely discounted the tenants of our democratic system. Tomorrow we write history, a history that cannot be undone. A dangerous precedent will be set i just want you to respond to congresswoman roby who, you know, is not in the sort of Basement Boys antic part of the caucus. Shes fairly sober and serious person and this is sober and serious speech shes giving but it is all process. And one of the complaints which is what Jonathan Turley who was a witness before the committee is that the record isnt complete enough. But the reason the record is not
complete enough because the white house has stopped anyone from providing any of the record, which seems a little like a catch22. What do you think . Not only is it a catch22, its also a catch 0 because the record is ample. We hear congresswoman roby saying quite powerfully that there is a dispute. But what is the dispute . We have the president s own words. I want you to do me a favor, though. We know what the favor is. He said it. He wants dirt on biden, and he wants information about crowd strike, this crazy and discredited conspiracy theory. And if he doesnt get it, hes not going to give the president of ukraine an Oval Office Meeting or the 391 million. There is no dispute at all about it. Theres no dispute that he released the money only after he was caught. So its very nice to say that the facts are in dispute, but theyre not. And of course they could be more
fully amplified if the president didnt stonewall. But thats his own problem. He cant have it both ways. You cant see the evidence, and i dont think youve painted a complete enough picture. That exactly i think sums it up very well. Thank you so much for joining us this evening. Thank you. If im not mistaken i believe congressman Hakeem Jeffreys of new york whos quite Senior Leadership is speaking. Take a listen. Its a responsibility we undertake prayerfully. The scripture says in psalms though some will cynically argue the impeachment of this president will further divide an already fractured union. But there is a difference
between division and clarification. Slavery once divided the nation but emancipators rose up to clarify that all men are created equally. Suffrage once divided the nation but women rose up to clarify that all voices must be heard in our democracy. Jim crow once divided the nation, but civil rights champions rose up to clarify that all are entitled to equal protection under the law. We do not take this step to divide. And at this moment, this committee can rise up to clarify that under the constitution here in America No One is Above The Law. There are some who have asked why should it matter that donald trump pressured a foreign
government to target an american citizen for political gain and at the same time withheld without justification 391 million in military aid for a vulnerable ukraine that remains at war with russian backed separatists in the east. Why should it matter . Perhaps Ronald Reagan posited the best answer when he delivered a speech at the foot of it berlin wall in 1987 and stated east and west do not mistrust each other because we are armed. We are arm because we mistrust each other. And our differences are not about weapons but about liberty. That is at the heart of the trumpukraine scandal. Liberty, National Security, abuse of power. America is the leader of the
free world. We play that role because it is in the best interests of the National Security of the United States. We play that role because we believe in liberty and justice for all. We play that role because freedom is in our dna. Freedom from oppression, freedom from tyranny, freedom from abuse of power. Freedom is in our dna. What role should this Committee Play In Defending Freedom . The house is a separate and coequal branch of government. We dont work for this president or any president. We work for the American People. We have a constitutional responsibility to serve as a check and balance on an out of control executive branch. That is not the Democratic Party play book. That is the playbook in a democratic republic. James madison once wrote in federalist 51 that the house should serve as a rival to the executive branch. Why would madison use the word rival . Because the framers of the constitution did not want a king, did not want a monarch, they did not want a dictator. They wanted a democracy. The house Judiciary Committee must defend our democracy because in America No One is Above The Law, not even the president of the United States. We must hold this President Accountable for his stunning abuse of power. We must hold this President Accountable for undermining americas National Security. We must hold this President Accountable for corrupting our
democracy. We must impeach this president. We cant stop, we wont stop. The constitution is sacredly obligatory upon all. I yield back. Gentleman yields back. Mr. Yates. House democrats arent clarifying no ones Above The Law. Theyre just clarifying none of them is above partisan and politics thats florida congressman speaking thereafter Hakeem Jeffreys. The again as you hear the theme there. I mean, the democrats, this is solemn and important and hears a record. I mean, it really does seem to me you could say, and of course they cant say this because the president wouldnt allow them to say it. They should say, look, he shouldnt have made that phone call, he shouldnt have said it the way he did, he shouldnt have withheld the aid. Impeachment is very, very serious, this isnt quite the bar, he wasnt successful, but theres just no room for that in the modern gop particularly not in the modern gop house. Again, to go back to the clinton thing i remember all the democrats lining up to criticize bill clintons conduct. Joe leiberman gets up, they thought maybe it meant he was going to push to vote for removal. That was like in the realm of infractions and abuses of power. Serious but smaller than what were talking about here when were talking about 400 million of aid being withheld. The thing so funny about it is when i think about the Clinton Impeachment now it seems so small and so sillyane a way it was a personal matter and yes there was misconduct, but its something that doesnt affect the National Security of the nation. And so the democrats are right to be sober and serious because
when we look at this moment in history its going to be completely clear who was on the right side of this. Not because the republicans are not putting up a defense but because of whats at stake. I think every american understands elections should be fair regardless of who they would vote for. Im not sure, though, about the history. This is theme weve heard from both democrats and republicans i think historians are going to be fair and sober in looking back at the history of this. I dont think from the perspective of a historian, not a partisan is what im saying. I think the facts as weve been saying all hour are very clear, and i think that the videotape will speak for itself. But you do have two examples of history we havent talked about. One was the nixon impeachment that did go to it fairness of the election and the same thing weve got except this is hitech. And then youve got the Andrew Johnson impeachment, which really turned out to be more of a political issue. It was really a question that the Radical Republicans Didnt Want Stanton the Secretary Of War being fired. And so it was really a question over whether or not were going to remove a president because we dont agree with his policies and the precedent was set properly. So you have in between the johnson and nixon and trump situations. Although im a dissenting historical voice Andrew Johnson absolutely should have been removed from office. Although it could have been a National Security issue given the civil war this is again a little bit of an argument im trying to like why am i working so hard to do the work for republicans, but the sort of good faith version of the argument is
and the democrats say yes, precisely because these are the facts that are the clearest. But in the johnson that was the case with johnson, too. And i think in some ways the mistake with the johnson impeachment is that the articles they marked up that they basically tried to get him on the technicality when what they wanted to say was you are destroying the republic that was just saved by 600,000 soldiers blood, and they should have been more forthright about what they were doing. And thats a question i think has bedevilled the democrats here when you talk about narrowness. And its remarkable they have come over sort of for their moderate members two articles, narrow move quickly and theyre
criticizing precisely on those details. Its not that they were i think they wrote this for the clarity of the American Public to understand that the stakes were sufficiently high for impeachment. Because if the issue isnt just did he do wrong or not do wrong. Was it sufficiently serious you would go through a process to potentially remove him from office . I thought where you were going with the Andrew Johnson example is actually a bit of a different direction, which is, you know, the republicans keep making noise about a crime. Andrew johnson had no crime in his article of impeachment. Lets take a listen to judiciary member David Cicilliny. 20 years later a congressman on this Committee Said and i quote, this business of high crimes and misdemeanors goes to the question of whether or not the person serving as president of the United States, put their personal interests ahead of public service, end quote. The congressman who said that
was mike pence, and he was exactly right. Impeachable offenses as Alexander Hamilton explained and i quote are abuses of public trust, injuries done to society itself, end quote. High crimes in other words are abuses of power committed against the people. This is exactly what President Trump has done. And yet i have to admit i think the president s distractions are working because most folks are probably sitting at home thinking What In The World has any of this got to do with me . How does stopping foreign aid to ukraine actually affect my life . Thats why with my time i want to take a step back, remind everyone in this body and everyone watching at home what this is really ability. President donald j. Trump wielded the enormous powers of the presidency to cheat in the 2020 election. Specifically he used our
nations leverage over an ally to smear on opponent he feared most in an election. That Wasnt An Attack On Vice President biden, it was an attack on our democracy. And if we dont have the President Accountable for it we will set a precedent. Any time a future president will feel they have to do whatever it takes to win. If we set that precedent, if we decide the president is Above The Law, then we will no longer live in a democracy. We will live in a Dictatorship Trading the values of madison for the values of moskow. Thats why this should matter to every Single Person watching tonight. Because if the president gets away with trying to cheat in the 2020 election, he will no longer be responsive to the will of the people. That means he could launch wars sending young people into harms way without worrying about facing repercussions at the battle box. He could continue to separate children from their parents and lock them in cages without worrying about public outrage. He could take away your health care, pocket your tax dollars, do whatever he wants. If the president can cheat to win reelection, the president lose theyre voice and hes no longer a president , hes a king. Im proud to represent the great state of rhode island. The very first state that said enough to king george iii, and once again im here to say on behalf of my state, enough. Heres the thing, the people dont vote on impeachment, congress does. So before i close i want to speak directly to my republican friends. Wake up. Stop thinking about running for reelection. Stop worrying about being primaried. Stop deflecting and distracting and treating those you represent as if they dont see whats going on, like theyre not smart enough to realize you are willfully ignoring the facts to protect a corrupt and dangerous president. Do what you were elected to do. You didnt swear an oath to donald trump. You swore an oath to protect and defend the constitution of the United States. Honor that oath. Reach deep within yourselves to find the courage to do what the evidence requires and constitution demands. To put your country above your party. All you have to do is look at the evidence before you because it will leave you with only one answer, this president must be impeached. Our democracy for our constitution, for the people you represent and for all who will inherit our country for us, i pray you will do the right thing. And despite everything that has
happened these past few months i still have hope in my heart that you will. With that i yield back. Rhode island congressman David Cicilliny there. This is going to go for a few hours and theres going to be a vote likely in this committee tomorrow for just the fourth time in history. And theres going to be a vote on the house on the floor we think before the holiday break. And then in january therell be a trial in the senate. And theres been some news coming out of the senate what that trial might look like, a kind of showdown behind the scenes between the white house who wants a Big Sort Of Circus and folks inside mcconnells inner circle who basically want to get it done as fast as possible and go back to confirming 24yearold judges. And so thats the sort of lay of the land right now. So i thought itd be interesting to talk to someone whos a u. S. Senator but a u. S. Senator that represents a state donald trump won by double digits, senator john tester. How are you thinking . Whats your head space right now as you watch these proceedings in the house and know this is coming your way . Look, what i hope happens if the articles come over and apparently theyre going to as the senate takes this very, very seriously and get as much information as they possibly can in order to make a good decision. We will be the jury, the Chief Justice will be the judge, and i think its going to be really important we treat this very seriously and we need to make sure that we do that and in order to do that we need to get the information and have a Good Exchange in the United States
senate. And i hope that happens. And i think it will. So one followup on that and theres a few other things i want to talk to you about. One followup is the question of the scope of this trial. And ultimately as sort of precedently down in that Andrew Johnson impeachment removal trial, basically a majority of the senate is the ultimate arbiter on all sorts of procedural questions. The question is like do you have confidence in your colleagues in the Republican Party because there will not be 51 votes to turn this essentially a circus, to turn it kind of into the display i think donald trump very much wants and some of your House Colleagues want. Well, look, i think there i still believe in this country and i still believe in this democracy. And i think if folks want to turn this trial into a carnival i think there will be hell to pay for that at the ballot box. I think people expect an honor
and fair trial. But the bottom line is i think the bottom line is i think the American People expect their government to work and in order for it to work you need to have a fair trial. Let me follow up on the government working. One of the arguments ive seen is that the house isnt doing anything. Today theyre going to send over the mdaa which is the big defense authorize act. You tweeted a vote out of the house for tribal recognition that is important to some of the folks i believe in your state, which just struck me as an indicator of the fact theres a lot of stuff that has moved through the house during this period theyve been supposedly dragging their feet and making its way to you in the senate. Theres a pile of bills that we recent taken it up in the senate because weve been dealing with judges mainly and few appointees of the
administration. Trust me, chris, the impeachment has had no affect on the United States senate. Its all been over in the house. And we could have been doing a lot of the bills the house has passed, bipartisan bills and no brainers but we havent. And we waited until the very end. And we hope we get them down before we leave for christmas because its important. And youre right, the house has done a lot of work. Its just a matter of Mitch Mcconnell allowing us to bring these bills to the floor. Theyre so critically important for the country in getting them passed. The truth is it impacts every american in this country. Let me just ask, why has mcconnell does that . Is it literally because he prioritizes judges above all else and floor time is the limited resource. He wants to use the limited resource for the thing he cares most about which is confirming
judges and he wants to kick the can on legislation he doesnt care about . The bills i talked about are not partisan bills, for the most part theyre not that controversial. And why we dont take some time on the floor and debate these . If one person or two people or fooifbl people are holding them up, who cares. Lets do a little deliberating and debating and lets vote on some of these bills. I do not know why senator mcconnell is holding all these bills up. It makes no sense to me whatsoever. Its not like were working overtime, because were not. Its not like we cant stay here a friday or saturday and get some of this stuff or even work on it during the week when were normally here. The fact is i cant figure it out. Thers a lot of folks out there that say government needs to run like a business. In this particular case if we did, wed go broke as a business. I mean, you need to have predictable in government just like you do in business. And some of these bills out there give predictability, give certain, allow the business to grow. Why does he hold them up . Youve got me. I struggle to communicate just how bizarre the u. S. Senate has become under Mitch Mcconnell but thats as good as an expression ive ever heard. Thank you for making the time tonight. Thank you, chris. And representative Eric Swalwell speaking at the House Judiciary Markup that is were coming up on hour three, and its going to go for a while and were going to have votes tomorrow. The tester point, i mean its fascinating to think about the intersection were soon going to get between Mitch Mcconnell senate and the constitutional
duty to hold an Impeachment Trial. Except youve got john roberts whos going to be presiding, and so that is the wild card right now. G to act like a District Court judge and call balls and strikes . Maya wily shaking your head and i agree with her. I think hes going to sink into the chair and try and not be noticed. Youve got to fight over all these rules. Republicans over the majority. But 51 vote in the senate will determine what the rule carries. They can even overrule Justice Roberts with 51 votes, so i actually think theyre going to try very hard to avoid that. And i dont think a silting Chief Justice of the Supreme Court wants to look like hes wading into partisan politics here to me is the main thing. Theres a Collision Korls between donald trump who loves nothing more than spectacle and Mitch Mcconnell who hates
spectacle. He just wants to sit there and confirm judges that are very young that will strike down all liberal legislation for the rest of their lives, 40 years, 50 years whatever it is and thats all he wants to do. And he wants to pass the must pass bills, the government stays funded, the donors are happy, like thats Mitch Mcconnells m. O. What is the sound bite we hear constantly from senator noth bites. I would hate to think we have a head of the senate whos working to serve a sound bite. I would hate to think that. Well, we do. I feel duty bound to note because Ranking Member doug collins who spoke at length at the beginning as his right as the Ranking Member talked about the committee is not doing enough. One is the Voting Rights restoration act which restores part of the legislation struck down by the Roberts Court and the Voting Rights act which had a markup similar to what were seeing right now in that committee got only one republican vote to restore the Voting Rights act. It is true partisanship has ruled the day in that committee and in that house. Nick, what do you what do you see as the most important thing for democrats to do between now and the vote . I think its to get out there and simplify the message, take these articles of impeachment, put them in a chart and explain
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