And by con distributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. Thank you. Always pleased to have Maxine Waters on this program, serving her 14th term in congress, representing my district, californias 43rd, glad to have you back. Nice to be here with you. Its been a while. It has been a while since youve been in the studio. I wonder if i can address this story that seems nonsensical to me. I went online to read it, saw the footage myself. What do you make of this story that you shoved a reporter, im asking this in light of what we all saw, the congressman who body slammed a reporter. Now theyre accusing you of shoving a reporter, what happened . Youre going to hear a lot, because a lot of people are following me around. I have a lot of people from the right wing media following me around. And others who want to get in on the act. And so in talking with this young man yesterday, i talked with him, i saw where he was coming from, i threw up my hands and walked away. Hes saying that he got choked. There were a lot of people standing around, when you watch the video, you dont see any shoving, and so he talked about it in two different ways. He said, well, it doesnt rise to the level of any kind of assault, or it wasnt a mean thing, hes been walking it back some. And i think hes just trying to get in on the act and get some attention. Donald trumps been attacking the media, and well get to that. Sometimes i think the media steps into this stuff, when they make stories out of stuff that really isnt a story. It really season the. Im surprised all of the attention that was given to it. I do know that they like to they like to talk about me. A lot of these Media Operations do. Because they get attention. But i mean, i just dont take it seriously. I think it doesnt make good sense, and it doesnt bother me. It wasnt just this guy, bill oreilly went after you a few weeks back, before he lost his job. Any man that sits in a dark room doing strange things while hes making sexual overtures to a woman, i cant take seriously. You know, its like i said, you know, i want to talk about the issues, you know. Lets talk about the issues. There have been a variety of stories, and i want to be clear where you stand on this. Do you want trump to be impeached . Are you calling for his impeachment . Have you not said that. Have you said you think he will be impeached, ought to be impeached . Where are you on this issue . I believe that donald trump should be impeached. What i want people to understand is, i know that we have to have the information, we have to have the facts, we have to have the documentation, the congress of the United States decides what is high crimes and misdemeanors. So thats what our responsibility is, and thats the ability that we have to define that. To determine whether or not someone meets the level of impeachment based on, you know, what Congress Says we can do. And so i believe that there was collusion. I believe that hes been involved in not only collusion, but obstruction of justice now. And other kinds of things. And i think if we had had the investigations moving along a lot better than they have been moving, we would have the facts by now. Now that we have moved to basically recuse the attorney general sessions. And now that we have gone through the president s firing of comey. I believe that the House Intelligence Committee cannot do it with nunez as the head. Hes already shown that hes not trustworthy. And that hes in the back pocket of the president. I have hopes that the senate will do better, and then the special council, i really have hopes that he will do a lot more. You try to pick these things apart . Yes. Nunez is a part of the california delegation . Yes. It sounds like you have no confidence in him. No, not at all. He went up to the white house to try to protect the president. The president lied about having been wiretapped by obama. He was trying to put together some evidence to show that there was some kind of surveillance going on. He was the chair and is the chair of the intelligence committee, supposedly doing the investigation. And in addition to that, now he has issued subpoenas that he did not include the democrats in, the way that hes supposed to, and helping to decide who and why people are being subpoenaed. Well come to obstruction of justice in a second. As james comey is set to testify later this week, as you well know. Yes. Let me start with your suggestion, you believe there was collusion with the russians. Thats right. What do you base that statement on . Well, when i first started to look at his allies and the people around him. I saw some unusual connections. When i looked at manafort who had been his Campaign Manager and said that he was connected to the ukraine, he had contracts there, and thats what that side of the ukraine thats connected to putin. When i took a look at flynn. Flynn revealed himself as someone who had been in contact with the russians. Had lied about it. Had not filled out his papers properly, to disclose that he had. When i looked at carter page and i saw carter pages connection to the kremlin, and when i took a look at roger stone, who is a close ally of the president , and he too has been involved with russia over the years. I said why is it all of these people with these kind of connections are in one place here, in one administration, whats wrong with this picture . And we began to see more and more, dont forget, there was a proposal by trumps attorney, cohen that he was presenting to flynn before flynn was really revealed, and that proposal was all about bringing together the ukraine with the kremlin, and the interest of lifting the sanctions. Lifting the sanctions, i think even though that has not been delved into strongly enough, i really do think that much of this is about lifting the sanctions. Why did putin want trump to be president. Why is it he did not want Hillary Clinton to be president . It is because, i believe, that between trump and his son in law kushner, they discovered theres some money opportunities here, big money opportunities here in russia, and with the kremlin, and i think that i know that the president has made no bones about it, he supports lifting those sanctions. Those sanctions were put on by obama because of the invasion in crimea. And they cannot move to drill without having all of the equipment, everything that they need with the sanctions and our allies working with us, to support those sanctions. He needs to have those sanctions lifted so he gets on with the business of drilling in the arctic. I think tillerson is a part of this. He comes from exxon, he had already negotiated a deal with putin. Multibillion dollar deal to drill in the arctic. I dont think tillerson really cares or knows enough about being secretary of state. As a matter of fact, hes demonstrated that in the way hes treated the employees. Hes not even fighting the cuts that are being proposed by the secretary of states office. And so i think that the connections of all of these folks who have been meeting with the russian ambassador, who is basically a spy. And i do believe that their interest in oil. And i think it was carter page, who was involved with the gas and oil company, stayed on a run influenced by the kremlin. I think that theres a lot there. And then i also believe because we and our intelligence agencies, really confirmed that they hacked into the dnc. They tried to undermine our elections and thus our democracy. That you cannot take that lightly. You have to see what this is all about. Thats why the investigations are so important opinion i wish we could have had an independent commission or committee of some kind to do this kind of investigation. Its been slow. Its unbearable this president and his leadership is unraveling in some interesting ways. When he discovers comey is investigating him, he fires him outright. And when we learn sessions he did not disclose. So all of this means theres a lot of smoke here, and i think it leads to well, theres smoke, does it mean theres fire . I think theres enough here to believe that. Okay. I think the foot prints are there. You think bob mueller has enough authority as independent council and i ask that, because as you well know, in congress, the rules were changed, some years ago. Yes. And theres some of us who are concerned that the special council doesnt have enough authority to do what needs to be done, no matter what he may or may not find. I think he does. And i think he has to design and define what role hes going to play. Some people say hes doing that now, where he sang to the Senate Committee or the committees, for example, okay . And im not sure this is true. But this is what is being said. You take care of the obstruction of just is, im going toe take care of the collusion allegations and what is being said about the connections that have been made between trump and his family and putin and the kremlin. And so, yeah, i do think that he has enough authority and power to do it. And to get right down into these relationships, everything from emails to airplane trips to communications of all kinds. I think theres enough there. What do you expect all eyes are going to be on washington, on the hill on thursday. Well, all eyes are going to be there. Everybodys waiting for that. What do you expect . Well, i think it may be blown out of proportion right now. The hype on this thing is so big. I dont know that his testimony could measure up to all the hype. You tell me. I dont think so. I much of what he is going to say has already been said. There may be more in the memos that hes done. He supposedly documented every meeting that he had. Maybe well find out how many meetings, how extensive those memoranda are. And whether or not he has captured this president basically pushing him to stop the investigation, rather than suggesting. And so i think that it will be interesting, but i dont think its going to be as big as people think it may not be. I dont think it will be either. Let me take these two punch cards if i may. If he hit sits in congress under oath and says two things, that the president tried to get me to stop an investigation, and the president asked me for a loyalty oath. If Congress Hears nothing but but those two things that i was pressured to stop the investigation into Michael Flynn and asked to express my loyalty to the president. Shouldnt those two things alone be something . It should. Impeachment starts in the house. The trial takes place in the senate. Yes, i think so, i think that alone is impeachable. I really do. The flip side of all this, impeachment is a dangerous thing. And it is a tool of last resort in our democracy. Thats right. How do you keep this from becoming political . Some say you have made it political by calling for impeachment before the data is in. If the president needs to be impeached, lets impeach him. How do you keep it from becoming political . Well, first of all, elected officials and politicians are the ones who are going to make the decision. But heres what i believe so thoroughly about this possible collusion, that i want to be documented. If, in fact, putin and the kremlin not only hacked into our dnc and into other members, telephones, et cetera, if they included to elect trump and to undermine our democracy, i think that is extremely serious. And i dont care what side of the aisle youre on. Thats not political . Thats not political. Its antidemocratic. And whether youre a democrat or republican. The democracy must be protected. It must not be thrown away for money or for friendship. Or for ego or anything else. If you are found to have organized and strategized and included to undermine our democracy, not only is it impeachable. But democrats, republicans have to stand together. To say, were not going to allow this to happen. Constitution means more than that, this democracy means more than that, and for any even the right wingers in the Freedom Caucus, who would defend him when the facts are in, then i would question their patriotism. Many of them think they wave the flag higher than anybody else. For some of us that they dont think are as patriotic as they are, we are sayingng, were abo saving this democracy, and for africanamericans, it should be extremely important. For a lot of reasons. Number one, we have fought to make the democracy better. We have fought, we have worked with this country. Despite the history of what has been done to us from slavery on through, discrimination, even now were fighting for voting rights. And so we have believed that america belongs to us, like it belongs to others. And were willing to fight for it, and fight with, we go to wars, we do everything. And so we have a leadership role in this, and that is to defend the democracy, and to say to putin, to the kremlin, to trump or to any of those who are organized in this situation, that i believe has to do with drilling oil and all of the profits that are going to come from that. You cant get away with, were not going to let you do it. I think i heard somewhere you called them the kremlin clan . Thats right. All of the connections of everybody that i have named and some more, have connections in some way, with the kremlin. Whether were talking about the kremlin or way talking about putin or the ologages in russia. Are there republicans nowadays who have the courage, who are moderate enough, who are concerned enough about the democracy to do the right thing . Because there were some of those in the watergate hearings. I think things are so divided and people take such a litmus test these days to get elected. Are there 15, 20 republicans that would crossover . Can you count 22 republicans that are going to do that . No, and theyre going to be tested when the information rolls in. When the facts are unveiled. There are those who say that republicans are frightened. Theyre frightened that trump will come into their districts and theyll get defeated. If they dont stand with him. They dont know what hes capable of doing, and he has shown in the way that hes conducted himself, that hes capable of waking up at 2 00 or 3 00 in the morning and doing whatever and saying whatever. The fear is there. But theyre going to be tested. When theyre tested its going to be very difficult to stand up in the face of the democracy being undermined by russia and those who would aligning themselves with them. In the interest of i think profits of oil and money. Speaking of tweets at 2 00 or 3 00 in the morning, what did you make as a member of congress of those tweets that President Trump tweeted that just seemed to anger everybody in london, all throughout europe. Showing an insensitivity of what the mayor had said hp what did you think of his nitpicking in those situations . In those tweets . I find that this president does not respect anything or anybody. I find that he certainly is not a thoughtful human being. Hes certainly not one who respects the history of this country. And diplomatic relationships and allies. He has disregarded all of that, he does not try to learn about it, he doesnt know when hes in the middle east and when hes not in in the middle east, and on and on and on. So i just believe anything could come out of him at 3 00 in the morning. Hes shown us that. I dont think anybody can contain him. Do you believe its just a matter of time on some other issue before he trips himself up and makes impeachment even more likely . At one point hell say or do something that is so outlandish, that will be clear to everybody. As ive been involved with this issue, and ive been on the internet a lot. Theres a lot of tweeting going on, with the millennials who are following, et cetera. I said, hes going to lead himself right to impeachment. Thats what i said. Because i do believe that he is so outrageous, that he is so disrespectful. And disregarding everything from a loss to process to protocol. I do think that hes capable of tripping himself up. Let me ask you how the democrats fight back. Yes. I ask you, because youre a democrat long enough to know theres enough infighting inside the Democratic Party that the agenda doesnt get advanced. If the strategy is to watch donald trump implode or lead himself to impeachment, is that enough . Yes. I get the sense people are waiting for him to destroy h himself. I want you to know democrats are not just waiting for him to destroy himself. As a matter of fact you dont hear democrats coming out in any appreciable numbers speaking like im speaking. Were focused on a democratic agenda. That aca is extremely important to us. We worked hard. Obama worked hard, nancy pelosi helped deliver it on the floor. Were pushing back, we did get 20 republicans who disengaged from their caucus and said, we cant do this. So that has been high on our agenda. On my committee, Financial Services. We have all of the doddfrank reforms to protect. Ill be on the floor three days this week fighting against the bad choice act, that would undo all of the doddfrank reforms. Dont forget, we are in a recession in this country, almost a depression. Because of the way that wall street treated our Financial Services with these Exotic Products they put on the market. The predatory lending. Doddfrank reform was put together so that would never happen again. But now with the leadership of trump, who in one of his executive orders instructed them to review this and to basically undo it, theyre coming with this comprehensive piece of legislation, they call the choice act. We call the bad choice act and were fighting it. Were helping to educate people about why it is so important to have dodd frank reform. In the dodd frank reform, we have the Consumer Financial protection bureau. I want to tell you, thats extremely important. Prior to the reform we didnt have anybody looking out for consumers. And whether we talk about payday loans or the other kind of ripoffs that now we have gotten a hold on, and were finding, for all of this fraud and these ripoffs, et cetera. If donald trump remains president. And if theyre able to get past the senate and get a bill like this to the president. It will undermine tremendous work. So were focused not only on health care, and the aca. And were focused on Financial Services and making sure that we have protection for our consumers. Were making sure that we have jobs at the top of our agenda. I know this president has talked about infrastructure. We dont know what this means. What we do know is this, he has sent a skinny budget thats going to hurt a lot of working people and poor people. And many of those people that voted for him are going to be extremely upset when they learn about the medicaid cuts and all of the other things hes doing. It will be fascinating in the coming days when you all get a chance to get into that infrastructure idea that he laid out today. And see whats really there, and see whether or not democrats can support that. It depends. Obama, dont forget, this was obamas initiative. Thats what trump is saying, hes saying, its a democratic idea, cant you all get behind it . He cant get probably the Freedom Caucus behind it, you know why . They dont want to spend any money. And so he expects that we can put it out for him, but he better bring with him his people and those republicans who hes going to have the real problem with. Theres no reason why we should jump, knowing that we have a lot of other things to attend to. In the first place, you cant give the tax breaks to the richest 1 in this country in your budget and talk about how youre really going to spend money on infrastructure. You know what im saying. We have to take a real close look at this. We cant let people be tricked by it, and i think as we go along with this, well find out whether or not hes really serious, and how he really thinks hes going to get it done. You have work to do, you better get back to washington. Ill let you catch a plane. Ill probably have you in the studio tonight. Thank you very much. Thanks for watching. And as always, keep the faith. For more information on todays show. Visit tavis smiley pbs. Org. Join me next time for a conversation about the carmichael show thats next time, well see you then. And by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. Thank you. Today on americas test kitchen, julia cooks spaghetti and sausage meatballs, adam review insulated shopping totes in the equipment corner, and bridget makes tagliatelle with prosciutto and peas. Right here on americas test kitchen. Americas test kitchen is brought to you by dcs. Dcs manufacturers of professionally styled indoor and outdoor kitchen equipment
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