Transcripts For KQED Charlie Rose 20131003

Some arrangement. Its true we preceded them by thousands of year but its true were here. Rose we conclude with the appreciation of american novelist tom clancy who died on test at age 66. Writing the most miserable form of work. The thing is you have to 12eubg with it. If you dont write the book, the book aint going to get written. You cant sit there and talk about it or ruminate about it or dream about it, you have to put words on paper. Rose the Prime Minister of israel and remembering tom chancey when we continue. Captioning sponsored by Rose Communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. Captioning sponsored by now i know when it doesnt sound like but when it comes to Irans Nuclear weapons program, the only difference between them is this. Ahmadinejad was a wolf in wolfs clothing with is a wolf in sheeps clothing. Rose Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is in the United States. On monday he met with president obama in washington. On actual he addressed the United Nations General Assembly and here is what he said. When he was irans chief negotiator between 2003 and 2005, he master minded the strategy which neighborhood iran to advance its Nuclear Weapons program behind a smoke screen of diplomatic engagement and very soothing rhetoric. Rose his speech follows speeches by president obama and president hassan rouhani. I spoke with him today. So here we are wednesday afternoon. Its good to see you again charlie. Thank you, good to see you. I look forward to this. So do i. Rose you clearly have come here with something to say. In new york, at the un and in this conversation. So the president spoke of iran, the president of the United States spoke and the Prime Minister of israel has spoken. Where are we at the end of the week in understanding this negotiation with iran and what the implications are for israel. First of all i would say the implications for the world because if you are in pursuit of Nuclear Weapons succeeds then the danger is not really to my own country but the dairpg is to the United States. Look, iran has been expanding an enormous amount of effort, money, pain, sustaining pain to get Nuclear Weapons. Theyre developing icbm, ballistic missiles, not for us but for you to reach the american mainland. You can only arm these with a nuclear payload, not tnt. Theyre developing these underground bunkers, secret bunkers not to produce civilian energy but to produce uranium and rich uranium for bonds. Theres a heavy water reactor to pursue a plutonium use not for use but for bombs. Iran is going through this route of enormous sanctions by taking the iran economy to get a bomb. Theyre pretty close. Rose how close. Well, they are close to the point where they want to be in a situation where they have enough in rich uranium at lower levels but to be able to punch through and enrich it very rapidly within a matter of weeks to get high rich uranium they can use for a bomb. Rose are they close. They are getting close. They didnt go for high enrichment. Instead they built a lot of piles of rich union annual but added centrifuge to high enrichment just like that. Weve been working today the United States and israel and other countries have put place very forceful sanctions saying if you continue in this path those sanctions will collapse your economy. And theres been a credible military option by the u. S. Perhaps by israel even if the sanctions dont work, there will be ways to take out your program. The combination of Strong Military sanctions and a credible military threat has produced rose economic sanctions and a military correct. This has produced, remember iran is governed not by ahmadinejad or rouhani or the president s who came before them but the person they call aptly by the way in this case, the supreme leader. Thats ayatollah khomeini. He said do heart things with hard works. He got to where he is but he also got the sanctions. When he says do hard things with soft works that way we can go over the line or very close to it without incurring the sanctions. Thats why he got elected within this limited slate of candidates eliminated 99 of the candidates of the regime and left 1 . Seven out of 700 and he was elected in order to relieve the sanctions. He came here to relieve rose maybe he was elected because the iranian people wanted change. Are you kidding. If they were given an open slate of candidates they would take these people out in a second all of this regime who want to mead in a medieval theocracy. They want the majority of iranians. They are the two most pro americans and western populations in the middle east israel. And iran give them blue jeans, beverly hills, you know, the works. Rose the internet. Everything. But they dont. I mean rouhani uses the twitter here in new york but he doesnt let the population there in iran tweet. They dont use facebook. Theyre putting on a nice show here. Rose will the Prime Minister of israel believe that the Iranian Regime can change and can say whatever we were trying to do. Yes. Rose were prepared to change. The sanctions were well the first thing is understand what is going on in iran, and im not guessing, this is not a guesstimate, this is very solid information. Rose do you have sources. Yes, a few. There is a very clear distinction between rouhani and ahmadinejad. Rouhani says we can get to Nuclear Weapons with a smile ahmadinejad says we can get to Nuclear Weapons with frown. Because the sanctions are about to take a devastating blow on the iranian economy thats already been badly hit. Rouhani is giving him a chance. Go ahead try to get me a lifting of the sanctions without giving up the essential. Rose you come in town. I said, just to complete, i cant give up this line. I worked so hard to get it. Rouhani is a wolf. I said that ahmadinejad was a wolf in wolfs clothing and rouhani is a wolf in sheeps clothing. But we cannot let them pull the wool over our eyes. So the answer to your question is can there be a real change . Maybe yes, maybe not. But the only way we can find out is to insist on an agreement that truly dismantles irans program. Rose the prime minute actual of israel is worried that the president of the United States will not insist on as proper demands as the Prime Minister would like to see. And he worries that israel will be left alone. First of all i can tell you everyone shares the worry i have. Three hours of conversation yesterday with president obama. This is on a day when the u. S. Goes into shutdown. So you can think that hes had other things on his plate and we had, i appreciated the fact that he gave us the time. And i tell you we share a common concern. How to stop iran from developing Nuclear Weapons. It was an open conversation with open minded people. I dont think this crystallized thats why i appreciate the opportunity we had. If we Work Together i think we can get to a common policy. The policy should not not to let iran. Its in no ones interest not ours or the u. S. Not to let iran wiggle away from a partial deal in which they make cosmetic sanctions. You lift the sanctions or part of them. Once you do that the sanctions collapse. Rose this is an important point. Where is it that the United States and israel difference on having negotiations with iran. The president has said clearly we have to see deed not rhetoric. Absolutely right. Rose youve been there with the president for three hours and had a frank where are you different. I didnt say frank i said an open and good exchange. Thats diplomatic double speak saying we had a can confrontation. We had a conversation between two leaders achieving a common goal. Rose what do you differ on. I dont know we differ on anything. We dont object to testing the diplomatic route. If theres any country on earth that is struck with an annihilation from Irans Nuclear weapons its us. If we can resolve this diplomatically. The question is what is a deal that does it. John kerry said, senator kerry said a bad deal is worse than no deal. I guess my point is that a partial deal is a bad deal. Because when you lift the sanctions for some minor stuff that they do or partial thing that they do, it takes years to put the sanctions in place. Ive been involved with this years, but when you remove them for concessions that the iranians could reverse within weeks, you may not be able to put them back in place. Theres a lot of countries, im not going to name them. Im the foreign minister so i will be diplomate diplomatic. Rose i know that. There are there are a lot of countries that could collapse. Then iran gets up the ropes and gets to and we lost. Rose i hear thats not in our interest rose you had a full conversation with the president of the United States and you pretty much agree on everything. And you have full confidence that the president of the United States understands israels fear and reservation and clearly has your confidence that he will do the right thing. I think we both now in a Real Exchange trying to work this out because i think from an American Point of view, not only an israeli point of view, and from you know, our point of view, significant European Countries point of view. The last thing we want is to let iran wiggle away with a smile campaign, to have us, you know, be very happy. In north korea everybody celebrated the great deal, you know, was widely celebrated but people were doing it. You want to see this thing work out. And then a year later after this celebrated deal, north korea exploded its First Nuclear device. But you see iran is a lot worse than north korea. Rose you said its 40. 50, 50 north korea because iran seeks our destruction because iran sends terrorism to just in the last three years to 25 countries, 25 cities across the globe because iran is participating in the mass murder in syria. Because iran is trying to undermine these regimes. This is a dangerous regime. You dont want this regime armed with Nuclear Weapons. Rose but youre not answering this question. Are the demands that you would make on the iranians to prove that they are real and credible, the same demands that the president will push forward in the negotiations with the Iranian Foreign minister. You have to know that. We have to see rose we know your demands. But the United States was formulating its demands. What i did is that iran has no natural right to a rich youre rain annual given that rose you dont doubt they have the right to have Peaceful Nuclear energy. So does canada and mexico and 17 other countries, 15 other countries. 17 am together that have civilian Nuclear Energy without enriching urainium. Thats to erin rich it to 90 percent. Thats enrichment virtually means that a country that possesses this capability is able to produce so he says Nuclear Weapons. So if you want civilian Nuclear Energy, you dont need to enrich. The only reinyou need to enrich is not for Nuclear Energy is to enable you to build Nuclear Bombs thats why canada and mexico dont need enrichment, thats why sweden and switzerland dont need enrichment snivment do you do you think you can prove that to iranians and then be prepared to make a deal. And prove it . No, i cant prove it much these people are very cynical. Look at what was saying in the u. S. We are for democracy the tragedy in syria, we are against terrorism. Come this, this isnt serious. It isnt a question of proving to them its to lining up the rose you seem to be saying we should go forward with the negotiations and see if we can find a better route than having them try to have a Nuclear Weapon become, have the ability and be close to the ability within weeks so that you believe israel or the United States will have to strike. The question is can you negotiate with somebody who is not trustworthy. Of course you can you do all the time. Rose thats what you have to do, you negotiate with your enemies. You negotiate in a clever way. Youre not blinded by them. You remember reagan said trust and verify. I say distrust, dismantle and verify. You can do that but then youve got to put the right pieces in place and not allow them to fool you. And the second point is yes you should keep a credible military option all the time because ultimately that is what got the sanctions to work. Rose theres nothing in your dna that would allow you to be Prime Minister of israel when iran has the capacity under no circumstances would you allow that to happen. Thats correct. Rose does israel today have the capacity to stop it. Some people say yes the United States does but israel cannot. All israel can do is delay. Do you know something, ill give you a state secret here on the charlie rose show. The u. S. Has a stronger military than israel but dont short change israel either. I wouldnt go beyond that. I never do, im about the only israeli that talks about our military capability. But i think its very important to make sure that the regime, you know, i represent a people that is glued for almost 4,000 years. Weve had great periods and weve had our awful periods and we went right into the abyss of destruction. When the nations of the world did not believe about a radical dick tearship that spoke about our annihilation. When people say theyre out to kill you take them seriously but above all prevent them from a getting the weapons to kill you, the weapons of mass death. When these radical regimes ends with the jews it doesnt end with the jews. It didnt happen before and it doesnt happen now. Theres a cult that controls iran. They come and they sound reasonable and they are reasonable up to the paint where theyll get the weapon. I always give the example somebody who is totally unreasonable with a wild ideology that until they get to the point where they can actually use that power, they appear very sensible. Thats a suicide bomber. Weve had a lot, the suicide bomber as hes driving on his way to board the bus he obeys the traffic laws and says the right things. Once he gets on the bus. I think weve learn that radical regimes that are intent on global domination and wide ideology and apocalyptic ideologies. Once they get to the point of power all bets are off. We cannot be in that position. Therefore i say not negotiate. Yes, negotiate but be very tough. Dont do partial deals that allow them to get the weapons. Rose you worry that youre being at this moment while negotiations are under way to frighten in your language. No. Rose secondly. Being very truthful. Rose no negotiations are under way, you cant launch an attack against iran. Very brilliant. I wanted to talk about that. I just formulated the principle. Rose whats wrong with what i just said. You can not attack the time theyre negotiating, can you . You know, i never talk about that but i did and do say what has been said time and time again including by president obama. Israel is threatened with annihilation by iran. And israel had the right, i would say the duty to defend itself by itself against any threat. I hope, i hope that this proposition doesnt have to be tested, charlie. The way it wouldnt be tested is to get a successful dismantling, a complete dismanhattan ling dismantling of the Nuclear Weapons. Rose do they have to convince you. Its not a question of convincing. Its not what they say its what they do. Its not their words which is a double talk. Rose do you because of your own intelligence sources about the Iranian State of mind than president obama and his intelligent sources and other nations and their intelligent sources. You, because of what you think this reading along with a believe your sources of information about them and their intent are better than anybody elses. We have superb intelligence. But heres the thing i would comment on. Its not their state of mind, although we know about that a great deal. Its the state of their capabilities. And the biggest mistakes that countries have made, i think in ancient times and modern times is not to focus on their adversarys capabilities. We want to make sure they dont have the capability. Whether or not they have the state of mind is a different question. If they dont have the weapons to carry out their ambitions its less important. Rose ive had one secretary of defense after another say they have not yet made a decision to build a Nuclear Weapon. There are two aspects. One is the biggest thing, the most difficult thing in getting a Nuclear Weapon is to get enriched, the material. Thats the stuff you put in the bomb. Thats 90 there when you got it. The last 10 is coating that ball of material with an explosive device. Thats not very hard to do that. So when they say they havent yet made a weapon rose they have not made a decision they havent taken a ball wrapped it around a detonator. Rose or they dont have the capacity yet to do it. Once you have the capacity you can make decisions. You have to make sure by the way, iran, charlie, would not be interesting in having one bomb or two bombs. Theyre giving up their infrastructure for 200 bombs. And theyre not developing those icbms for us. They can reach us for what they have. Its for you, its for you. Rose you clearly told the president that, didnt you. I didnt have to tell him that because the american intelligence knows as well as we do that iran is developing icbms not to reach us rose im going to ask you one more time. Is there any space between you and the american president because much has been written and said about differences between the Prime Minister and the president. Are you saying after this three hour conversation were on the same page theres no difference, we have the same goahead momentum. I think that at this stage what i can say is we have a common goal, weve had it for many years. Rose thats always been true. Thats not something i think the president said something very important publicly and he repeated it private see. He said we have to see steps, actions, not words. Rose thats good enough for you. What were talking about right now is what are meaningful actions. Rose do you agree on that. Were talking about that right now. Rose lets turn to syria. Again through the russians, conversations with the syrians. Theyll give up chemical weapons and the United States will not launch an air strike. Whats your assessment of that arrangement. I hope it works. I mean it will be very good if that happens. Rose do you trust the syrians to do that . No. I trust, i told you distrust, dismantle and verify. Rose do you believe they will thats the three principles 123450eu6789 do rose do you believe they will dismantle. I think we try to cheat but if they have very good intel answer as we do and the u. S. Does and we share, then we dont let them get away with it. Rose what do you think of the role of the russians. So far its good. Lets see if it continues, it will be better for everyone. Do you know what syria shows you, it shows you that a regime, a radical regime, an irresponsible rogue regime if it has weapons of mass destructions they end up using it. Thats what people believe or understand. You see this gun in the first act it goes off in the third act. Thats why these regimes should not be allowed to have these weapons. Chemical weapons kill people in the thousands. Nuclear weapons kill people in the millions. And rogue regimes should not be allowed to have weapons of mass destruction. Through the threat of military force and an effective dismantling. You dont say to syria take off a few real weapons and we release the sanctions. You say a full dismantling. Thats a good model for iraq. Rose do you believe that assad can find a way to stay in power if he dismantles the chemical went ips. I dont think his power is based on gunning down opponents with machine guns, attack helicopters, artillery in the neighborhoods. Look, i take care of israels secure interest carefully but theres a humanitarian crises in syria that is reaching monumental proportions. Rose let me tell you millions displaced. Probably 110, 120,000 killed already. Rose tragic. A lot of children. This is beginning to mount as a huge tragedy and i think we have to think about what it is we do about it. I spoke about this with the president yesterday. Rose and what was the conversation. He agrees with that. How to do it . That i think is important that we keep off the charlie rose even the charlie rose show for now. Rose how to do it. Yes. Rose most people always believed that there would be some cooperation between the United States, israel, jordan and others in the region. I think theres a common concern in the region. Theres a real question of, you know, there are two book ends to this problem. The first is you dont want iran hezbollah and assad to win because thats a terrible thing. Thats the iranian access group. Thats the if you are thing. The second thing is you dont want alqaeda and israel winning. I happen to think that there might be a third way. Rose whats the third way. Thats your next show, charlie. Rose come on. It is serious. Rose this is the point of this, sort of some understanding of how you find an appropriate avenue to avoid war and tragedy of more than 100,000 people dead and more than two million refugees. Whats the way that you think might work . I have some ideas. Rose just give me one. Not yet. This is exactly as you say, its more serious than it appears, and you know in some matters of achieving a resolution, of a conflict or achieving peace, i make an amendment to woodrow wilson. Sometimes its open covenants secretly arrived at. This is one of those areas where you wanted to have a solution that the whole world can see but you dont necessarily have to publicize it. Rose is it on the table now . Well, its the preliminary thought that i have. Rose a moment of history. It is said that you were part of the negotiations with the syrians working in order to do damage to the iranians and their avenue to hezbollah. You were prepared to negotiate with the syrians. There were a lot of ideas whats been put. Rose this is written about. There are a lot of ideas proposed by both parties. You can never get the syrians to accept the kind of arrangements that israel will be always able to defend itself. Rose do you think the soviets, the russians want to keep assad in power or do they care . Well, what president putin says you dont want alqaeda to win, its true. But you dont want iran and hezbollah and us to win either. So i guess so far the alternative has been additional blood letting, endless bloodletting. And again i think from a human point of view, just a tragic consequences of this, theres a point in which the human cause such levels that we cant in good conscious allow this to repeat. These got to be, i dont know if there are other ways but i think we have to look for other ways. Rose theres also on the table and negotiations taking place now again under the initiative of secretary kerry and israelis and palestinians. He seems to believe that he has an operative idea and plan that can do something in the next nine months. I hope so. Rose do you believe he has a credible plan that can deliver some kind of agreement between israelis and palestinians having to do with incredibly complex issues, having to do with the border, having to do with refugees, the right to return. Having to do with jerusalem, having to do with a whole range of things that are at the core, you know. Its tough when theres no question. Six israeli Prime Ministers and myself included didnt succeed. Rose is there Something Different about what john kerry is trying to do that gives it a chance. I think the test will be not in americas intentions, however well meaning and they are and sincere and hes working very tiredlessly. I think its a question whether were going to get finally palestinian leadership that will understand that in addition to israeli concessions, they will have to make concessions. Like the people for accepting the jewish state. I gave this speech at the university, a religious university and i said were going to have to have two states for two people a did he militarized palestinian state and a recognized jewish state. I chose my words very correctly. Mull triesed palestinian state and a recognized jewish state. Rose are you the only one in your party that believes in the to state solution. There are a lot of parties across the political spectrum. We gave up territory, we gave up gaza. We tore up the settlements that was displaced 10,000 people ruinedded their lives and we said if we get peace thats fine. But we got charlie we got 10,000 rockets, we got iran to take over gaza with hamas and Islamic Jihad and he this fire rockets into israel. We dont want a replication of that. Show me the palestinian leadership that recognizes the jewish state that enables the kind of security of iranians on the ground that israel will have, that israel will defend itself by itself. And defend the Palestinian Authority and keep the stability in place. If we have that, then i think we have the makings of a deal. I dont think its wise in this case. Again im a wolfian amended. Secret, open covenants secretly arrived at. We should try. But the jurys out, i dont know. Rose about the kerry issue, is it different so that it might be a secret covenant that could reduce real results openly arrived. It will be an open covenant. Rose no, openly covenant secretly arrived. Is it different thats what im trying to ask. Is it different . I dont know well see. Rose because Everything Else failed as you know. It failed but the reason it failed for the same reason for the last, why is this conflict here since the 1920s. Before there were territories, before they were settlements. Why is this opposition . I mean they were offered the palestinians were offered a palestinian state in 1948. They oppose it because they didnt want a jewish state. Why did they fight the Jewish Population in 1920s and the 1930s because they opposed a jewish state. Why do they continue to fire at us from gaza after we left because they are opposed to a jewish state. Im not saying its equivalent to gaza, he stopped. But face your people give what i call the speech the way i gave the university speech. Rose you were in favor of two state solution recognition of a jewish state. Thats it, a jewish state. You got it. Lets see that they get it. And even if they do that, given the level of incitement, state control media we dont have that by the way. D their textbooks and so on. I dont know that this top down recognition of the jewish state will stick. So we have to have real robust security arrangement to protect the peace and protect israel in case the peace fails. If we have those two things, recognition of the jewish state and a ream addressing of israels security needs. Rose you cant make the case that settle ments which you have continued in your government are central for the security of the jewish state. The argument is made do damage to the security of a jewish state because they stand that way of some very successful agreement and two state solution but its in the interest of the security of the jewish state. I think the settlement is going to be in the negotiation. Rose they are. Most people want to ask is why is it necessary. Because its not done let me tell you. Thats the first thing. You ask me and this is the issue of settlement settlement. Rose i know you took a chance at the beginning. No, no, no. I did something else. I launched these negotiations. The reason these negotiations were launched is because i was will knowledge to do something that no leader was willing to do. I released terrorists killers. Rose you said that was a very hard thing for you. Well only for me very difficult, personally, i fought terrorists, my brother died in the battling of terrorism. I myself was wounded. Releasing israeli hostages from the hijack airplane i nearly died there. Yes, its very hard to release terrorist business. By the way 95 of the jewish public of israel think this was a mistake. I made some contribution to launching these talks because i want a solution. But i want a real solution. Its like iran rose i still dont understand why you think building settlements in jerusalem is necessary. Now let me tell you something. Rose you find a solution when the world believes it stands in the way. The world believes a lot of things but the world doesnt get it. Rose i think the american president believes that. Let me tell you what i think is the issue and then you can judge whether you agree with me or not and the same thing i say to everyone in the world. The settlement and the territories are not the cause of the conflict. Rose nobody says that but they stand in the way of a solution. Heres the way you get a solution. They dont stand in the way either. 90 of the Jewish Population is clustered in the west bank is clustered in a tiny fraction of that land. Its not an issue. Its a bogus issue. Its about as big an issue as people said you know the whole conflict in the middle east is centered on the palestinian. Rose heres the question. That one died. Im telling you that we can walk away. Suppose we just walk away from every settlement. We dismantle everything. We walk away the way we did in gaza. Rose that was a different Prime Minister who had the courage. And what happened. Rose the courage to walk away. Well it turned out it didnt work out. They came in and hamas continued. How do we know it doesnt happen again. Rose the lesson. Charlie youre not going to escape this. I got you. Rose no you dont have me. The question with gaza is you can never do what. The lesson of gaza is the settlements we tore it up disentanque verde disenterred them from their draifs. It was taken away in two seconds by huh model and iran and they continued to fire 10,000 rockets to us. The settle is obviously their presence or lack of presence there wasnt the cause of the conflict. This conflict is not about that. Its also about rose what is this conflict about. The jewish state, period. In any border in any territory. Rose there are many people who will say if youre not prepared to give up the west bank, you are giving up some great probabilities about the jewish state because you will create a state that cannot stip it as a democracy. This is not a new argument for you but this is an argument that has resonance among people in israel, including some former Prime Ministers. Well first of all it resonates with me too. I dont want to buy national security. Rose exactly. And thats why i think way have to work out a deal. Under the Kerry Initiative kind of thing. Under negotiations with hamas and we welcome american help. Ive been talking to john kerry, not a lot, every two days or so. Sometimes three times a day. We talk. Rose thats good. It is, actually. But heres the thing. I think that there are two posts to this. One you one you dont want to buy a national state. The second is you dont want any territory that you vacate. Thats what happened with gaza. We got out of gaza and iran walked in. We got out of lebanon and iran walked in. One time with hezbollah and the other with hamas. We cant let thet happen to third time. We cant have another 10 thousand rockets on the airport in which you land. Rose the occupation because theres a great fear what happened in gaza would happen in the west bank is that what youre saying. That is across the board in israel but ill tell you something else. You say what are we doing there. What do you mean weve been there for 4,000 years. Not quite abraham came rose you were not there pre in some areas, we were kicked out by the jordannian assault. We were massacred after thousands of years. We were there for 2,000 years before the arab conquest. Now i have a deep attachment to these places. Theyre in the bible, ive walked there with my feet, it burns my soul. I mean its etched in high heart. And in the heart of any jew is history. You recognize in this land, there is another people. So we have to get some arrangement. Its true we preceded them by thousands of years but its true also that theyre here so we have to somehow i would say adjust or make amends for the focus we have a deep attachment and parts of it well have to make an arrangement in order not to have a binational state. How do you create that. So you dont get the worse you leave the land that is strategically vital to you, the historical cradle of our National Existence and you get iran. You dont want that. So im trying to work out rose that doesnt have to be at the alternative and you know that somehow you get iran if you withdraw from the west bank. Sorry thats what i got twice. I got it in lebanon when we left we got iran. Rose you got iran because of hamas considering hamas being iran. Its only supported by iran and they got something hamas hamas rose thats the palestinians. Yes, but charlie without iran, they have nothing. Their weapons come from iran, their money comes from iran their training comes from iran. Often the directors come from iran. Without iran you take away the scaffolding of iran, his blawp classes and hezbollah we cannot have it happen a third time in an area that is 20 times the size of gaza that gears our cities and the narrow waste lines thats israel. We have to have a different arrangement and that arrangement will mean israel will have to have a long term military presence along the jordan river. To prevent this area, this palestinian state from being perforated by iranian agents from jordan or from elsewhere. That is what we have to do. And that will protect us and paradoxically protect jordan. Rose an International Force wont do it. International force you mean rose allowing the jordannians are you serious. Look, we have this little battle in syria. So theres a force there called undof. Countries are leaving, they havent been far yet. Weve got an International Force. We went out of lebanon and it was promised that it would monitor, monitor any rearming of hezbollah. Hezbollah since added 60,000 rockets. Do you know how many reports they have filed . Not one. Zero. Okay. We had a european International Force on the border of gaza and the sinai when we left gaza. That operated in seven hours. Rose okay. No, were not going to and for charlie all the good press in the world i will not compromise in israels security. Rose no one doubts you would compromise on israelis security. They might quarrel with your definition. Who is going to define it. The people who are not going to rose no people within the step of israel if you ask them, the overwhelming majority, im talking about huge majorities. Rose definition of no, more. Tougher. Rose this was very nice young men who worked with you and i promised him i wouldnt go over so this last question. Charlie its enough that i wanted to not follow their instructions. Why are you following them . Exactly. They dont give us instructions, they work for me. Rose you convinced me they dont write your speeches you write your speeches. Ive had the same speech right for the last 35 years. Rose this is a serious question. They rejuvenate themselves every time. Rose then they get important. Then they get appointed ambassador to the United States. There are many other positions. Rose its interesting we now have the israeli palestinian. We have the iranian negotiation between john kerry and the more than minister of iran and now we have syria with the mutionz involved. Everything is in play in the middle east. Thats opportunity. Some of it is opportunity. I would say the greatest change that is happening is not fully observed. Because what you see is a change that i see in the arab world. In many arab countries that because of the concern with iran, the concern with syria, they say israels not our enemy israels not the problem they may be part of the solution. They want in this terrific conversation thats taking place is to make sure that the outcome doesnt threaten them and some of the outcomes that will threaten them will threaten us. For them it will be for the regimes. To us its a threat to the existence of the state and the people. But it affords perhaps an historic opportunity to get arab countries to join with israel and i would hope with others, to have the basis of a barrager Regional Security that advantages stability and one would hope also peace. Thats happening, its not obvious but to me its obvious. Its not obvious publicly but to me its obvious that Something Big can happen here. We just have to make sure that in this state of flux, we do the right things and not the wrong things because we could easily upset the apple cart in a way that we wont be able to put it back together again. We cannot do that. We have to be very responsible, buck the trends. Dont go by fashion. If you govern by fashion and if you govern by the kind of editorials youre going to get, you will get good editorials which will be and then youll get wonderful eulogiez. I would rather have bad press and no eulogiez. Better bad press than a good eulogy. My responsibility is to ensure the survival, computer, longevity of the one and only jewish state. I will do that pursuing peace. I will make and im prepared to make project compromises. I will never compromise on israels security, never. Rose mr. Prime minister thank you. Thank you. Thank you charlie. Rose Ronald Reagan will always be my president. I will always think of him that way, yes. Rose why. Ronald reagan came to the presidency in 1981 with one mission. He went to destroy the soviet union and to do so short of war obviously and he did that. Recalled rawnltd reagan moot an end to markism. Rose we lost tom clancy who died in baltimore at age 66. He wrote 17 number one new york files best sellers. Of them like the hunt for red october and clear and present danger also became blockbuster hollywood films. He was a frequent guest on this program. Another popular novelist john grisham. He thinks the time to kill, his first novel is his best. You dont look at your novels that way do i. I would like to think that along the way. I started writing red october in 1992. Its 14 years later and i hope i got better. Rose how does one get better after one becomes do you play golf, charlie. You get better at golf by make golf. Rose you get better at golf by practicing and practicing and making sure that your swing is working. In the writing business you get better by writing. And the more you do the better you get at it. Rose you understand Character Development and put a sentence together, you understand how to make a page turn. The more you do it the better you get. Thats the general idea. Rose other than that, whats the best thing you say to people who want to be tom clancy, who want to write a film. If they want to be tom clancy, they should set their sites a little higher. The most important talent for a writer is persistence. You have to stake with it. Writing is the most moveable form of work i know but its rewarding if you do it write. The thing is you have to stick with it. If you dont write the book it aint going to get written. You cant silt there and think about it or ruminate about it, you have to put words on paper. Rose you sit down in front of a computer. Every day. Rose you turn out about three pages a day. Somewhat more than that. Anywhere from 10 pages to 30 depends on how hot im going. Rose are they ever moments of Writers Block for you. Writers block is a technical term invented by the writing community for being lazy and not wanting to work today. Everybody at least once a week wakes up and says i dont want to go to work today. Well writers indicate all with an excuse called Writers Block saying well i just cant do any work today. Crap. If you show up and you work, work happens. Rose why is it still hard for you . Its hard because i havent found an easy way to do it, charlie, i havent. Smith the great Sports Writer sewed just sit in front of a keyboard and open a vein. Thats as good a definition or description of the writer progression anyone has ever done. Its hard because it aint easy. Rose did you have to write. Remember the first alien movie with weaver. Write is kind of like that. The book is going to explode out of your chest. It may kill you but its going to get out. Thats the way it was when you were selling insurance in maryland, their that book. I just decided one fine day i guess it was april or so of 1982 that i was going to write one and i did. I wrote red october and it was rose is it satisfying. Its the most fun you can have with your clothes on. Then have you to write a chapter about it which is somewhat more difficult. Rose how much do you learn. How much do you know about the some matters that you write about . A friend of mine retired from the fbi a couple years ago and his last job was as the sac, special agent in charge of a major field office. And i called down there one day and he was on the phone with somebody else and i spoke to his secretary a gal named nancy. And she goes do you know what the boss says about you. He says hes a sponge. Hes going to remember everything you say. Hes a sponge. So in that sense im all at work gathering information and filing it away. Do you go home and write it down or do you just remember it. Mainly i just remember it. At some points i start taking notes people get really nervous. Then they think i wont remember if i dont make notes. I do remember most of it. Rose look at this. What does this say when i show this picture. It says i have a very long photo shoot a couple years ago and thats one of the pictures they decided to use. Rose the uss iowa. Is that the tom clancy the way you see yourself right there . Thats how the photographer saw me wearing my flight jacket and walking on the beach. Asking yourself who you are, thats a metaphysical question, i dont really feel like discussing st. Agustine today. Rose but youre comfortable with who you are. Oh, more or less. Were all imperfect and were all very aware of our imperfections and we try to get better. Rose i dont understand what you mean. I never want to be completely satisfied. Satisfaction is the enemy of progress. I always want to be dissatisfied about something. These always got to be a mountain to climb or a dragon to slay. Rose mountain to claim or journey to make. Challenge you you got to wake up in the morning and want to do something. Rose whats the tallest mountain for you to climb. Oh, lord. Maybe a book. Another book. Every book is a Tall Mountain when you start it. Its a foundation for six kids. I have a lot of things to keep me busy and theyre all interesting to me they all excite me. Rose tom clancy dead at age 66. Captioning sponsored by Rose Communications captioned by Media Access Group at wgbh access. Wgbh. Org a kqed television production. I was like sort of old fishermans wharf. Maybe a little like with a the calories, the cholesterol and the heart attack you might have. Like an adventure. Put it out of your mind. Oatmeal with a touch of dog. I did