Transcripts For KNTV Dateline NBC 20170320

This is a horrible crime. Im glad we know the truth. What were the secrets in the mist . Reporter january, point vicente, california. The wet, gray cold has settled in to stay. At noon a police boat sets off into the pea soup fog. A hail mary pass, apparently a slim chance to find the truth at last. But why out there . Why after all these lost 30 years . Maybe some cases are destined to stay cold, easier that way, before they came along with their wild ideas about murder and facebook, of all things. And now this. Their doomed errand into the fog. Her name was carol jean meyer. Low she was carol lubahn when all this happened back in march, 1981. The night of the slam doors, the harsh words, the car roaring away. And its an old story anyway. Pretty girl gets pregnant at 15, marries the guy. Pretty soon shes 20 something with two 20 and a hankering to live, really live for a change. And this particular pretty girl she was fun, she was outgoing. She had a lot of friends. Reporter she had these two sisters. Terri was the younger one, gail the older. We were very close and made each other laugh all the time. Reporter but carol wasnt laughing at the end of march, 81. For one thing, she wanted to be somebody, her own somebody. I know that carol wanted to complete school and further her career. Thats when she went back to study architecture. Reporter sure, her husband was a nice kid and she loved him once with all the intensity of first love. The Handsome High School Football Player who would hang around on her front porch. His friends would come over. I thought that was kind of cool. All these football athlete friends. Reporter mike stepped up and married her after the baby was born. He was a good father. He seemed to enjoy his kids. Reporter enjoyed carols family too. Especially her dad, milt. Mike became like his son. Reporter milt brought young mike into the family house painting business. He just took to him immediately. Everybody felt that way about mike, his friends, everybody. He was always a very likeable person. Reporter friendly, loyal, but not exactly ambitious. He didnt seem to mind at all settling down to a modest existence, them and the two kids all cramped up in a two bedroom, one bathhouse in torrance. But carol did mind it very much. I think she may have outgrown him somewhat. Reporter she had a secret affair by then. Maybe more than one. She got herself a cute little red car, an audi fox, ordered personalized plates. The car is long gone now, so we did this one up to look just like it. And quite often, shed get in her little car alone and go roaring off to school or to meat markets, like the local red onion was. I know she was going to the red onion. I never went there with her so i dont know what she was like. She had another corner of her life that you werent part of . Yeah. Reporter and then that night in march, kids off to bed. Their son, mike jr. , was just a boy, 10 years old. I was in bed. I had just got a new stereo for my 10th birthday and was listening to the headphones. Reporter from his bed, he could see something happening out in the hallway. I remember them getting into an argument, which was unusual. Because they just didnt . Not that i knew of. I remember her marching past and going out the front door and slamming the door. You heard the slam . I heard the slam of the front door, i know that. And the next morning we got up and she wasnt there. Reporter mike sr. Told carols dad that carol had demanded he sign papers to sell their house and he didnt want to, and she got mad and they argued. He went to bed and when he woke up in the morning, she was just gone. So we just assumed she needed to get away for a few days. But as the days went on, we got extremely worried. Reporter nearly a week after carol departed, her red audi fox showed up in the parking lot of the red onion, dusty, as if it had been there a while. I remember being upset about it. She was gone. I didnt know where she went. Reporter they drove around, looking for her. Went to bars. Carols picture in hand. And . Nobody had seen her. What feeling was that . Hopelessness. You know, where did she go . Who did she see . Reporter the Torrance Police department opened a file but they couldnt answer any of the questions, like had she just finally gotten fed up with mike and this little place and gone off to start a new life somewhere else . Or had she been in an accident or something worse . More than a week after carol disappeared, there was still absolutely no sign of her. And then something strange happened here at the house. Something very strange. Could it be that carol, unbeknownst to anyone, sneaked back in here when nobody else was around . Imagine what it was like back then in that little house. Mike thinking things over. On a hunch he said he placed tape on carols dresser drawers. A little trap. One day he took the kids to universal studios, and sure enough, when they returned, he noticed the tape was broken and some mail on the counter was moved as well. A few weeks later, it happened again. Some of carols clothes went missing, along with some money from a place no burglar would know to look, under the butter dish in the refrigerator, where mike said he and carol kept 100 in emergency cash and now 60 was missing. Just like carol, said her sister, gail. She would have not taken all of it. That was in carols personality, to just be very fair. Reporter and then there were those mysterious phone calls. Wed get the calls on special days. Her birthday, my birthday, my grandmother, wed get calls. And just silence on the other end . Yeah. What did you do . Wed say, carol, we love you. We hope you come back. We felt like she was finding a happier life somewhere. And understood that to make that successful, she might have to make a complete and total break . Yeah. Reporter almost three months after carol vanished, the detective handling her case put it in the inactive file. In his report he wrote no foul play involved. I remember thinking about her all the time, and i used to play records over and over that she liked. Just thinking where is she . When is she coming back . Reporter eventually mike started dating a 19yearold named carrie, brought her into the fold. We were happy that mike was going on with life. Reporter and so they did all go on with life. And many years went by. Until the morning in a whole new millennium when a torrance detective happened on the case of the missing young mother, and somewhere in the back of his brain, a little light turned on. I just had a hunch that this just didnt sound right to me. Coming up, doubts about carols disappearance grow, and others also would have suspicions about what really happened. Later they turned to a surprising source to help solve the mystery. 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In march of 1981, carol lubahn, a lovely young mother of two, known to be unhappy in her marriage, suddenly vanished, departed for parts unknown, leaving behind not just her husband, mike, but her son, mike jr. , then just 10 years old. I never felt that my mother abandoned me. I was never upset with her, never. I just was upset she was never there. I thought she would show up at a graduation or something. I always thought, well, she could show up, she could show up. But she didnt. And at family gatherings as the years went by, thanksgiving, christmases, that awful question, why would she leave them, remained the unmentionable elephant in the room. When it came to my family, i think they didnt talk about it because they figured it would upset me or my sister, so they just kind of it was a taboo subject and didnt really talk about her. My family is pretty closed to talking about heavy things, so Something Like that, rarely talked about. It was an awfully heavy thing. Yeah. Could you see it in your mothers eyes, or your fathers . In my fathers for sure. What would you see there . A lot of emotion, a lot of sadness. Im going to cry thinking about it. Reporter 1987, almost six years after carol vanished, the Torrance Police department revisited the case and time seemed to have altered mikes memory a little. A few more details had come back to him. Remember soon after carol vanished, mike said they argued, he went to sleep alone, woke up in the morning early and she was gone . But in 1987, he remembered they argued, went to bed together, she got up at 5 30 in the morning to go to the bathroom. She woke up, drifted back to sleep and woke up to the sound of a car engine starting and driving away. Odd. But memories do play tricks. Anyway, it didnt seem terribly significant, so the case went back into the file and got colder. Mike took over the house painting business from carols dad and went on to marry carrie and have two more sons. Gail and terri raised their own families and it was having babies started to change terris way of looking at her sisters disappearance. As unhappy as you might be in your life, you might leave your husband, you would take your kids with you. And so when you began to suspect that she wouldnt leave her children, what did that mean to you . That something happened to her. Reporter in 1996, 15 years since they had heard from carol, the police came around again. This time they scanned the lubahns background with groundpenetrating radar, even dug up the ground. Didnt find a thing. Funny thing, though. About four months later, the local paper did a little story, interviewed mike, and this time his memory was slightly different. He remembered that on that terrible morning when carol left, he heard the garage door go up before she drove away. Just one more little detail, though nothing profoundly different. And of course no evidence whatsoever of any crime. Police went away again. And then one day in 2002, a detective named walt delsigne was rummaging through some cabinets behind his sergeants desk. I was just being nosy. I thought what was this. Reporter it was the carol lubahn case folder. Over 20 years old and as cold as they come. I thought this is interesting. I wonder if this lady is still missing. Reporter of course she was. So again he read through the police reports. Couldnt help notice the subtle changes in mikes story. And i thought that was kind of strange, because i wouldnt think that you would forget the last time you saw your wife. Reporter so he went to see carols parents, her mom, melba, her dad, milt. He looked up at me and was starting to cry. I said, milt, are you okay . And he goes, oh, im just so happy. I cant believe you guys are still interested in this case. How much did that have to do with you driving ahead on this case, that conversation . A lot. Im the father of three daughters as well. I thought what if this is my middle daughter. Milt died one month later, never knowing what happened to his beautiful middle daughter. But when terri went to her fathers funeral and saw mike there, a private thought ate at her. Mike must know something. I didnt say anything. I tried to keep away. He was, of course, paying his respects to our family, but i couldnt carry on a conversation with him. Reporter meanwhile, walt delsigne had become a little obsessed. He had many other pressing cases, but something kept pulling him back to carol lubahn. I actually would shove some of my work away. I got in a little trouble for that sometimes. Reporter for years the detective chipped away until finally in 2010, eight years after he found that musty old blue file, he decided to pay a surprise visit to mike lubahn. His colleagues thought he was a bit nuts. There was those that thought, yeah, what do you think hes going to admit it to you . I thought, well, i played enough sports in my time, i know youre not going to get anywhere unless you try. Hi. Detective delcine. I want to talk about carol. Reporter what story would mike tell this time . Coming up, this version was straight out of 007. I think i did that james bond thing with the paper on the door. But one thing did ring true. She said you make my skin crawl. When dateline continues. For eight years, Torrance Police detective walt delsigne had a hunch this young mother didnt disappear voluntarily but actual evidence of a crime, there wasnt any. Finally 29 years after carol supposedly walked out on her family and never came back, he decided it was time for a surprise visit to michael lubahn. He went over with his sergeant. He invited us in. We did catch him unexpectedly, but that was the plan. Reporter but was mike upset or thrown off . Not at all. Very nice, like i anticipated he would be, because i had now heard from everybody in the family how mike is a good guy. Reporter so together they went over again the details of that last night down in march of 1981, and right away mike remembered a little more about the night carol presented him with a real estate contract and a demand they sell their tiny house. Did she just turn and walk away with it or what happened . She said you make my skin crawl. You make my skin crawl . Yeah. Yeah. And i thought, bing ill bet you she did say that. So i pushed him some more, for more details. And the details were, once again, a little different. About when and where he last saw her, for example. It wasnt when he went to bed around 10 00 p. M. As he said on one occasion or 5 30 the next morning, as he also said. No, this time mike said he last saw carol about 10 30 or 11 00 p. M. In the bathtub. I used the bathroom. And then he said maybe around midnight or 1 00 or 2 00, he heard the garage door go up. He went to the door and actually saw carols car driving away. See taillights. And youre sure it was her car . Yes. Also remember that story about putting tape on the dresser drawers after carol left and later he found it broken . He didnt remember that now. But as he sat here in 2010, he did remember some other traps hed set, even more elaborate. I would take like baby powder right inside the door so if somebody stepped in, id see it. Baby powder. Anything else . Ike i did that james bond thing with the paper on the door. Paper on the door . Okay. By now detective delsigne was working with his colleague, john wallace and deputy d. A. John lewin. Do you remember when you saw the results of that interview what you thought . Yeah, i thought that his memory had grown in areas where it shouldnt, and in areas where he should be saying the same story, it was different. Thats the hallmark of deception. Sure. But the mind plays tricks. The mind 20s things and inserts them into your memory and you believe them as strenuously as if they actually happened. Thats an interesting theory. I dont think its really supported. Memories can be lost. But memories dont increase in details over the years, and they dont increase in different details. And thats a sign of what we call a lie. His version of what happened from the start made no sense to any of us. And why would mike lie . To the Cold Case Team it seemed obvious. He killed her that night. She stopped living that night. Everything else thats going that doesnt make sense is all because its a lie. If you know its a lie, then it all lines up. Remarkably mike continued to talk to them three more times of his own free will. Very friendly, without an attorney. He even let the prosecutor take a crack at him. If you were me, if you were in my position, tell me what you would think. Probably what youre thinking. Which is . That i did it. Well, mike, i can tell you, sometimes you know the kind of murder cases we get, we get cases where the husband finds out that his wife is cheating on him and he kills her. So it had nothing to do with that. Did you catch what mike said . It had nothing to do with that. Lewin did. When you just look at sentence structure and how people talk and communicate, it wasnt about that. What is the it . You gave that great significance, didnt you . Oh, absolutely. Reporter so they kept at mike. And at one point it seemed to them he was on the verge of confessing. Listen, why dont you give me a few days to think about all of it. Reporter but when he came back, he didnt give them anything and they were right back where they started. Suspicion, sure, but no evidence of a crime. No way to even prove carol was dead. That is, until detective jim wallace hit on an idea. To use a tool that didnt even exist when carol lubahn fought with her husband on a march night in 1981. Coming up, the long arm of facebook. Its the kind of a place where we say here i am. Its also a place you can find people. 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Get up to 100 flakefree and unbelievably beautiful hair its not head shoulders, its the new head shoulders deputy d. A. John lewin and the Torrance Police department Cold Case Team believed mike lubahn killed his wife, carol, back in 1981. But they had one big problem. They couldnt prove carol was dead. The biggest assumption is going to be how do you know shes just not out of the country or across the country or changed her identity. Kind of an important question, with no answer. And then in january, 2011, jim wallace got the flu. Lucky break. No, really. And i was laying in bed. My wife came in and unfortunately when you work these cases, all you talk about is, because we were a dedicated Cold Case Team, youre talking about the case youre working on. Im sure she was tired of hearing it. But she mentioned to me, why dont you establish a facebook account for carol. I thought that could actually accomplish a great deal. Of course back in 1981 when carol disappeared, facebook creator Mark Zuckerberg wasnt even born yet. But 30 years later, detective wallace knew social media and its potential to connect to millions of people around the globe instantly. It could determine once and for all, he thought, whether carol was alive or dead. Because all of us know from using facebook, that number one, its kind of a place where we say here i am. Its also a place you can find people. Surely if carol was still alive, wallace thought, someone on facebook or twitter would know something. Of course he knew wallace would look vastly different so he found an age progression artist to create an image of what she might look like and then he placed that photo and others like it on facebook and other sites. It turned out it was a great point of contact for me to contact 350 friends and family of carol. Right away we said has anybody seen carol . We discovered immediately that nobody had seen carol since the night she disappeared. If carol merely googled her own name, shed find herself at wallaces website. But that never happened, which meant something very significant, said the detective. Shes not looking for herself. Shes dead. Or, a farmers wife in uruguay who doesnt go on the computer much. It doesnt mean she is dead for sure. Absolutely. It just means you made a fairly good case for it. In this large, cumulative thing were looking at, its another piece that points to the same conclusion. Reporter if carol was dead, if mike killed her, taking the accusation to court would be risky. Totally circumstantial. But they decided to roll the dice. 30 years afterwards on april 13th, 2011, mike was arrested for carols murder. When you went to the family and said were going to charge him, what was their reaction . Mixed at best. Reporter mixed . Such a mild word. How about upset, horrified, mystified . In fact most of carols family members believed the idea mike could have murdered carol was just ludicrous. Well, he was a member of our family, you know. Nobody wanted to see him be arrested or him be the reason or any of that. Its like another nightmare on top of the first nightmare. This was a case where i think the family would have been more than happy to believe that carol is still out there somewhere, shes not dead, and their beloved soninlaw is not a killer. Reporter but of all mike sr. s family members, perhaps no one was as torn as his name sake first born son, mike jr. , who loved his father unreservedly. Followed him into the family painting business, worked side by side with him for decades, and who had confessed to detectives that, like his aunt terri, he too had doubts about his father. Doubts that had taken root shortly after mike sr. s second wife left him. He talked about my stepmother constantly, for years, nonstop. And why was that so significant to you . Because he never talked about my mother. At all . Never. Reporter but mike never confronted his father. I just knew in the back of my mind that this could be a possibility, and i really honestly at that time i never wanted my father to go to jail, i just wanted to know. It was so important to me to know the truth behind that evening. Reporter to get the truth and avoid a trial, prosecutor john lewin was willing to make a deal. We had offered him voluntary manslaughter if he gave us carols body. And he turned you down flat . He did, repeatedly. Reporter mike pleaded not guilty. The case was going to trial. And if members of carols own family didnt believe mike did it, what would a jury think . Coming up, a father in court and a son on the stand. I was really, really stressed out about that. And he watches his dad answer this. Isnt it true, mr. Lubahn, that carol lived her last breath in that bathtub when you murdered her . When dateline continues. 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It was september 11th, of all days. September 11th, 2012, 31 years, five months, 12 days after the last known sighting of carol lubahn. An inauspicious day to begin the prosecution of a man. Could be but deputy john lewin went on anyway. What im going to be able to prove beyond any reasonable doubt, ladies and gentlemen, is that despite the fact that mike lubahn is a decent man, he murdered his wife. Reporter of course lewin knew that to prove a murder had occurred, he had to show the victim was no longer alive. For that he turned to detective wallace who explained to the jury the facebook and social Media Presence he created for carol had turned up a whole lot of nothing. Have you been contacted by anybody, either by phone, email, in writing, who says, you know what, ive seen carol lubahn after the day she disappeared . No. Though as lewin and his team also let the juror hear, family members like carols sister, gail, believed what mike told them, that carol had run off. Has it been hard for you to accept the possibility that she may be dead . Well, yes. Is it maybe even more difficult by the fact that you cared deeply for the defendant . Yes. Reporter and younger sister, terri, even though she had suspected mike for years do you still think of mike lubahn sr. As a part of your family . Yes. Reporter but most anguished of all, mike and carols son, mike jr. Is there anything about the way you remember your mom that would make you think or made you feel that she would leave you and never come back and never say goodbye . No. Reporter he loved his dad. But also secretly doubted him. Something he had never revealed until now. I was sweating so profusely during that whole trial, he never knew i had these feelings so on the stand publicly i had to basically say, yeah, im thinking maybe theres some weird things about your story, and it was the first time that my father really would have known i felt that way so i was really, really stressed out about that. How hard is it for you to be here today . Very. Do you want to believe that your dad is responsible for your mothers disappearance . Do i want to believe it . Yes. No. Lets assume that your dad in fact did kill your mom. Would you want to see him punished for it . No, not particularly. Reporter prosecutor lewin knew the ambivalence of the family members did not help his case, but in the end, my job isnt to make sure that the family members get what they want. My job is to make sure that, you know, carols killer is held responsible. But was mike a killer . His attorney, kevin donahue. I think the police are just wrong. Reporter no forensics, no witnesses, not even a body. The defense might have stopped right there. Instead, they decided to gamble. Mike was a nice guy. The jury should see that. And if the details had been a little different each time he was asked to tell the story, here was his chance to straighten it all out for the jury. How odd then that mike, under oath now, amended his story just a little again. Like when he added the detail that carol was in the bathtub when she said something mean to him. She said you make my skin crawl. Reporter also slightly different, the way he discovered she was gone. I opened the front door and went out and the garage door was up and the car was gone. Reporter in earlier versions, didnt mike say he heard the garage door go up and then saw taillights as carol drove away . Why had his story changed again . Whats the deal with that . Did you hear the garage door . I dont think so. Why do you think that now . What has jogged your memory . Because i think over the years, i thought about this night so many times, and i just you know, i seen that car back out of that driveway many, many times, you know, when she was leaving. So i think i just thought repeatedly in my mind that thats what i thought happened. I saw the car, i can see it right now. Reporter he never thought for a moment, he said, it would be the last time hes see his wife. I thought she had gone out that night and went dancing and stayed the night with a friend. Reporter what did happen to her . Mike insisted he simply didnt know. Did you have anything to do with killing her . No. Did you have anything to do with her disappearance . No. Other than i didnt sign the papers and that made her upset, but thats it. Reporter successful testimony . Maybe. But now the downside. Hed have to answer questions from john lewin. Do you lie sometimes . No. You never lie . I wouldnt say never. A white lie, who knows. Let me ask you, have you ever lied about something serious that wasnt a white lie in your life . No. In your entire life, youve never lied once about anything that wasnt a white lie . Ill just say not that i can remember. Reporter in fact mike had a hard time remembering a lot of things prosecutor lewin asked about. I dont remember. I dont remember going to bed. I dont remember saying that. I dont know. Reporter but how on earth, asked lewin, could he not remember the last time he saw his wife . Would you agree that that would be one of the most significant events, details of your entire life . Yes. It doesnt mean i have to remember it. Reporter lewin wasnt buying it. Isnt it true, mr. Lubahn, that the last place that carol lived her last breath was taken in that bathtub when you murdered her . Why are you looking at the judge . Because im waiting for him to correct you. No, i didnt murder her, im sorry. In the bathtub . Mr. Lubahn, if you had murdered her, you would tell us today. I would have admitted it. You would have admitted it on the stand today . Yes. Do you think that statement is believable . I think so. Im done. Reporter of course, believability was a question for the jury to decide. And decide they did. Though, as youll see, that wasnt the end of the story. Not by a mile. Coming up, a son overcome with emotion. A final push for the truth. Please, for your family, for your kids, tell us what happened. And then, a final fateful twist. It just is the ultimate answer. This is it. When youve got an uncontrollable cough, take delsym, the 1 12hour cough medicine. It helps control the impulse to cough for 12 hours. Which means, youre controlling your cough on your morning commute. And later when youre joking with beth. Even when most cough medicines stop, delsym is still working. And when your days over, your cough is still under control. Thanks to the 1 12hour cough medicine. Delsym. The cough controller. Lets call the jurors out. There are few things in American Life as dramatic, as weighted with consequence, as the moment a jury, verdict in hand, files into a courtroom. Have they been persuaded that mike killed carol, or even that she was dead . Mikes family held its collective breath. So did the prosecutor and the police. You know, you dont know what to expect. And now, here was mikes fate. We, the jury in the aboveentitled action, find the defendant, Michael Clark lubahn sr. , guilty of the crime guilty of seconddegree murder. Mike lubahn was going to prison. Longtime detective jim wallace felt surrounded by a very unfamiliar reaction. Ive had cases before where you get done, you know, and you walk out of the courtroom and the family throws their arms around you, theyre just so grateful. Thats not this case. I was just very surprised that the jury would convict him on such little evidence. And i dont think any of us are happy to see mike go to jail. And you still believe mike is a nice guy, believable guy . Yes. Reporter what gail and the rest of the family wanted most were some answers. Not so much that i want mike to pay for what he did, i just want to know what happened to my sister. Reporter and at a sentencing hearing in december, 2012, mikes own son echoed those sentiments. Guilt or innocence aside, ive never wanted my father to go to prison. Ive only asked if he knows anything to please let me know. Reporter and then mike jr. Made a heartbreaking plea to the court. Hes been a good father and a good person. If hes sent to prison today, i want him to know im going to miss our time together. Its going to be hard to see the world change without him. I humbly stand before the court today to request leniency for my father when giving his sentence. Thank you for the opportunity to speak. Reporter after that, well, then the strange tale of the muchloved convicted killer took quite a remarkable turn. It happened that very day in court. Prosecutor lewin. Im asking right now as we sit here, mr. Lubahn will have a chance. Please for your family, for your kids, just let it go. Tell us what happened. Reporter the judge granted a moment so mike could speak with his attorney privately. Did he actually have something to confess . He returned a few minutes later. And were asking to continue the sentencing. Reporter time to think . The judge pushed back sentencing by a month. My hope was that he would tell us what happened, that he would tell us what he did with carol and that he would be honest about both. Reporter for almost four weeks, they waited. Until january 7th, 2013. All eyes were on mike lubahn as he entered the courtroom. And then shifted as one to prosecutor lewin who told the court that that very morning mike finally revealed to him the secret he had been keeping almost 32 years, and so now lewin did the talking and mike, for once, said not a word. All of the information about them fighting about the selling of the house, he says that was truthful, that occurred. Reporter then carol stormed out, and it might have blown over, as arguments do, but she came back at 1 30 a. M. And said the one thing that would not blow over. Not ever. She told him that she was going to be taking somebody else, another man, to her sister, terris upcoming wedding. He said he was very upset. She tried to comfort him then, he said, and she was telling him, dont worry, youll find somebody else, et cetera. Reporter and that was the last thing carol lubahn ever said. He didnt want to hear it and he said that he pushed her. She fell and hit her head on a heavy end table in the living room. He said that she didnt bleed, but he knew instantly that she was dead. Reporter detectives hooked lubahn up to a polygraph machine. How much of this was true . After the polygraph, the test was done, he confronts him and says you didnt pass. Now the defendant changes his story and he says, okay, i punched her in the head. And i punched her hard. But he said only one time. Reporter then he told lewin what he did with carols body. After he killed her, he put her in the garage behind some carpet. He took her car the next morning to the red onion parking lot, dumped it there. At some point she was placed in the trunk of mr. Lubahns vehicle. Reporter and then he said he took her to the ocean, put her on a raft, paddled out to sea and dropped her down, a cinder block tied to her body. It was a shock, of course, a big shock. For so long the family, or most of it, believed mike. And now in this very public way, they finally knew that carol was dead and he, their sweet mike, killed her. But the whole truth, was it actually out there somewhere . And so on that cold and foggy january day, mike, surrounded by cops and lawyers, floated out into the mist to find carol. To find whatever was left. If they find the cinder block in the ocean after the search, they find that, that will give me half of the closure i need. Reporter she didnt get it, because after the boat ride, mike admitted his ocean tale was one more lie. And perhaps it was finally for the sake of his son. The son who never abandoned him, that he finally passed a polygraph and led investigators to the place he now says mikes mother has been all these many years. Police hope to eventually no one knows if they ever will find her. I dont really know why getting her back is the ultimate book end for me. I want to know that she is properly buried or cremated or whatever we will choose to do with her. Why is that so important . I think its just the ultimate answer. This is it. Theres no more wondering. Reporter no, not about that. But his father in prison, 15 to life. A good deal of wondering left to do about that man and what he took away. Do you still love him . Yeah, i do. I mean i always will. Ive just got to figure out how im going to process these facts. I dont know yet. I kind of thought a perfect punishment for my father was i was going to ask him to write one sentence about my mother to me every week hes in prison so he has to think about her and i have to i can remember her again. Thats all for now. Im lester holt. Thanks for joining us. This sunday, credibility crisis. President trumps unapologetic defense of his unsubstantiated claims. As far as wiretapping, i guess you know, this past administration at least we have something in common perhaps. Did president obama wiretap mr. Trump . The former head of u. S. Intelligence there was no such wiretap activity. The speaker of the house. I have not seen any evidence of this. The Republican House intel chair. We dont have any evidence that that took place. The top democrat on the house intel committee. Thus far we have seen no basis for that whatsoever. Now fbi director james comey will testify before the house tomorrow on spy claims and on russias role in the 2016 election. The ranking democrat on that Committee Adam Schiff of california joins me this morning. Plus, that budget blueprint. Sharp increases in spending for the military. Sharp decreases in domestic programs for the poor. Look, we want to give you money for programs that dont work. I cant defend that anymore. President trumps budget director Mick Mulvaney is here this morning. Health care fight. Can President Trump win over enough republicans to get his bill through congress . I will talk to a republican no vote this morning, senator Susan Collins of maine. Joining me are syndicated columnist george will, Yamiche Alcindor of the new york times, robert costa of the Washington Post and anchor of bbc world news america, katty kay. Welcome to sunday. Its meet the press. Announcer from nbc news in washington, the longest running show in television history, celebrating its 70th year this is meet the press with chuck todd. Good sunday morning. It was in the late 60s that the term credibility gap gained currency as people grew skeptical of president johnsons claim of u. S. Progress in vietnam. Now donald trump is facing similar growing disthe u. S. What began with claims on trivial matters as whether his inauguration crowds were bigger than president obamas they werent have turned into something more koconsequential. They have been redefining President Trumps insistence president obama had him surveilled or wiretapped. He took a swipe at the National Security agency for listening in on german chancellor Angela Merkels phone conversations. This week the administrations policy of ready, fire, aim, cause an incident with the uk when the u. S. Peddled a claim