Station we did a live radio history of the beetles it shows how well we could work together. We have a nice give and take and when we write we have not been in the same city for years. It is long i have this idea, this idea, and bounce, bounce, and we come up with something that is the ultimate. I have to entertain my coauthor. If it doesnt make his cut it is not good enough. I think we benefit from having to one up each other. Unfortunately, we barely scratched the surface of this book, watching tv. Our guest has been walter podrazik, coauthor. Cspan where history unfolds daily. In 1979, cspan was created as a Public Service by americas Cable Television companies and brought to you today by your cable or satellite provider. Now on booktv, the parents of the late Trayvon Martin sybrina and tracy martin discuss life and death and the judicial cy system in their book they cant kill us all. This weekend marks the fifth anniversary of Trayvon Martins death. Host thank you both again for joining me to talk about the book you wrote about the death and life of your son Trayvon Martin. It has been five years. It feels longer and shorter than that. It is hard to believe. What are you thinking about five years later as you revisit the life and traumatic events that happened in your life five years ago . Each year when his birthday comes around which is february 5th, it just reminds us of what we are missing out on. We didnt get a chance to watch him graduate from high school, go to college or go to the prom. I think all the time about how many kids we would have had and who we would have married and things like that. At 22 it is fairly young but he would have been graduating from college. What about you . Thinking about the good memories that cant be taken away. As parents, you want to see your parents being productive in life. We would have been hoping for another College Graduate and going on to see his life progress and seeing him become a man, seeing him raise his own family and things of that nature. Those are the things we think about all the time. The things that we miss. Sybrina, you write in the book the question you remember getting so many times. Who is Trayvon Martin . What i enjoyed about the book was learning more details about him and how he was raised and his interests. So much has been written and said about your son. Can you tells us a little bit and i know you did so a million times but talk about what trayvon was and what why missed when digging through the School Records and such. Tell us about the son you knew. That is one of the reasons we wrote the book. We wanted the parents point of view. A lot of times the books written did they didnt know trayvon or who he was. We want to put the name with an average teenager. He was very affectionate. He didnt care where he was. If he wanted a hug and a kiss he got one. He didnt mind people around him. Like a lot of times when they are little we always kissed them whether girls or boys. But as he got older, it didnt phase him that people were around. So he was very affectionate. He felt he wanted to do everything for me. That is where the name cupcake came. He was a good kid. He did everything for me. He just was a good person to be around. Kind of funny, you know . But just, just really affectionate. You walk us through the experience as parents and unfortunately we have a long list of names of cases that popped up and having covered those i have built relationships with those families and i feel like the coverage misses what it must be to be there making that first day which trayvon not there that morning. To get the phone call in your call as you are working and figure out what is happening. I think you both tell the story of Trayvon Martin but also tell the story of what it is like to be a grieving parent. You talk about gun vilance broadly. Not just those killed by police or vigilantes but i know in your book circle of mothers and other groups it is people who have been killed by street gun violence and that sort of thing. Can you talk about you being some of the elder statesman fortunately of this grup of parents. What is it like for you and what you hear from other parents of this unique experience of loosing a son or daughter this way . I think it is very challenging buchlt one thing you find out through a traumatic experience with other parents who lost children to senseless gun violence we find out how strong people are. We as parents are not built to bury our children. So to bury your child really does something to you emotionally. We all die but the fact as parents we invested 17 years in trayvon and not to see that life progress any further is really hurtful. I always tell parents i understand what you are going through but i dont know how you feel. Mike brown, i understand what his parents are going through but i dont understand their hurt because i dont know the relationship they had with michael. I know the relationship i had and sybrina had with trayvon so i understand her hurt. We understand this is more important than just the death of our son. There are other lives out there we are trying to impact and save. We are trying to help other families. It was one chapter by sybrina and the next by tracy and chronlogically telling the story together. I read the story of his death and the story of two partners who were working together even though were not married at the time but partners in raising Children Together and while still functioning close brought further back together. Can you talk about the relationship you had in terms of being the lead spokes people for your son in the pursuit of justice and sense men with the work you do on the foundation and what that was like to have this bond together as the parents of this child. I think the common focus we had was the children. So we knew that even though our relationship didnt work out we still had to have a relationship with the children. So, we just stayed focused on being parents. It made it easy for us to raise them because we wasnt fighting back and forth. We kind of got along. Like you pick up this time and i didnt have a problem with that. And he didnt have a problem with picking him up so it kind of worked out. You know, a lot of people think it is so strange that we get along so well because i guess a lot of divorced couples dont get along. But i think we have always just been civilized to each other. We dont always get along. You know . But for the most part, we come together for the betterment of the kids. So we manage to do that in spite of what we were going through. We decided that is what is best for the children. When trayvon was first killed you were still up in miami. Trac tracy, you were down in sanford at the time. One passage i wanted to note was this piece from the book when you arrive. You talk into the book about not even necessarily wanting to go. Not going if you wanted to go. Being heartbroken and you can imagine any mother. When i read this, i think of my own mother and what she would be going through and thinking. I remember being instruct by this passage as you were pulling on to the complex where Trayvon Martin was killed. We turned the corner and for the first time i could see the community where my son was killed. The street was a Clean Development and besides the big black entrance gate i saw something that shook me. A memorial. I had to look twice to see it was a memorial for my son. There were footballs, teddy bears, signs and cars and letters with the name trayvon on them. Every thing in tribute the may y man angel. The street was the crime scene but the memorial was a gift. Strangers telling us through these cards and small tokens of childhood they knew that the body on the ground was a boy, a human, a life and that his killing wouldnt be forgotten. Was that the moment you realized other people were going through this grief with you . What did it feel like to see both through this memorial and as you go three the rallies and the activism to see the support you start gaining prfrom the nation. I think that was the first public sign people were supporting us. But it didnt give me a gauge at how many people were in support of us. That did touch me because i wasnt expecting it. So, to pull in the late and see the memorial it just reminded me that the area, this is the surroundings he was in, because i had never been there. I think what rel hit me hard too was in new york when we were at the million hoody rally is when we actually saw the amount of people that came out to support us. The memorial touched my heart. But the million hoodie rally touched my heart and my mind and made me think about how many other people this happens to. It made me remember all the black and brown children that have been killed and nobody has been held countable. It was an important part of the movement and the journey. I have so much respect for people that supported us. Tracy, you wrote strangers defended on our cause like angels. What was fascinating is in addition to this inside view of what this must be like as a parent was to see some of the players that come into play over time. Your first conversations whether it be jasmine rand or Natalie Jackson or ben crump. You talk about, i think very often for a casual viewer and reader who knows the name Trayvon Martin, and knows the case loosely, they dont necessary see all the pieces that come into play. They see a rally but dont necessarily know who was involved. They wonder how does ben crump end up with you. Can you talk about some of these people and you are the face of your sons legacy rightfully but these other people that played roles in turning what could have been the death of a young man people dont know about to the name that rings out across the nation. I think we owe the majority of the recognition that the name Trayvon Martin received from a Family Member whose name is Patricia Jones because without her we would not have been in contact with Attorney Ben Crump who definitely played a very, very Important Role in bringing justice or bringing a light to our case. And so when i first talked to attorney crump she automatically told me there would be an arrest when i explained the case to him. That trayvon was killed walking home with a can of ice tea and skittles. The first thing he said was there would be an arrest. And i continued to call him and call him and call him. He finally answered the phone and i told him they havent made an arrest yet. So attorney crump basically stopped what he was doing and immediately started putting things into place. The first lawyer that we actually saw was jasmine rand who came down to sybrinas place and we had a conversation with her. It was change when me met jasmine because we were, you know, here it is our son was killed by a nonblack and so the first person that walks into the house to represent the family is a white woman. So, you know, it kind of like threw me for a minute. Then she opened her mouth, her conversation began we will do everything we can to assist you guys, and jasmine played an important part, attorney crump and parson both played a huge part. They still play a huge part in the things that we do. And ryan jewels played a huge part. Natalie jackson as well. With all those components working together, and they were working day in and day out, and natalie had inside scoops with the newsroom that really just helped us out in a big way. So those definitely were major, major components to our strategy to get justice to get an arrest. What also struck me was the way you almost had to campaign for justice. I think it is easy to can consolidate years later but through the book we see campaign after Campaign Starting with the release of the 911 tapes and before you were asking why has this man not been arrested. One of the first thing attorney crump pushes and you push for publically is lets release the tapes and hear the interaction. What was going through your head at this moment in time where you have been played the tape one time in the initial interview but the public and the whole family hasnt heard them yet. That moment when you are trying to figure out there is some evidence helping to code our son and why wont they give it to us . What are you thinking the first weeks of getting the 911 tapes out . When we realized they were not going to give us the 911 case we automatically went to our notion was there is a coverup and something going on. They were fighting so hard not to release the tapes and all we were saying is release the tapes and let the public hear it. There was so much of a fight. We had to file an injunction to get the tapes release. Just knowing it was a fight to get the tape release. Knowing there was something on those tapes that kind of characterized what happened that night. Sybrina, you write about that first time you are at the sanford city hall listening to these tapes of the 911 callers who were witnesses to the altercation. You write about the pain and difficulty of hearing them. But people were coming up to you after and providing comfort. You write you heard these tapes as a father would. Can you talk about your relationship with the elected officials . There is certainly times when your attorneys are calling for certain actions. I was struck by moments of humanity where people couldnt assume the mayor of sanford to be an ally of yours but there was a moment of humanity. I think during the whole time a lot of people in sanford were torn between if they stand up for the community or support what is right. I think with the mayor, his humane side peeked out. Even though he seemed to be this strong, governing body for sanford, he still a father. He probably thought about trayvon being his own son and that touched him a great deal. Not only him. There were also when we went to the trial there were Court Deputies and Police Officers that were there that would tell us they are in support of us. So it was like, you know, they were torn between what side they had to stand on. We want people to stand on the right side. We want people to see trayvon as an unarmed 17 year old which are the facts. Trayvon wasnt committing any time and we say that all the time. He wasnt carrying a weapon even though the defense team brought in this slab of concrete and said this was the weapon that he used. I mean that is just simply ridiculous. And then, you know, just with everything that went on, i think that, you know, it made people want to chose a side. But i think if you look at the facts, you know, trayvon wasnt paying attention to his surroundings. He was on the telephone. It is clear that the killer of trayvon was asked not to pursue him. Dont full follow him. Are you following him . And he said yes. At some point and time, trayvon even ran and this person ran after him. So to me i would feel like i am being stalked. I would feel like why are you following me . What it is about me you are following me . For some time we thought that it was the hoody but we clearly know in hindsight it was absolutely because the color of his skin. They couldnt bring it in at the trial, we know it is clear and that is what happened. This is telling our young men and women you cannot walk down the street on the telephone. You dont know whether to walk fast or slow or if you should speak or not speak. They dont feel safe in their own community or country. You write about this tweet of the hoody is the problem. If only he had not been wearing a hoody he would have been killed. There was a line he could have taken his hoody but off he could not take his skin off. That is what felt so compelling about the story. I was in college at the time and i remember reading the articles written about this and thinking to myself. I grew up in the suburbs of cleveland and how many times in the middle of the night was i Walking Around going to the corner store and always wearing a hoody and how easily would this have happened . The parents of jordan davis talk about this as well. This idea there is a sin of black skin. Our children can do everything right and in this instance there still may be a person who is lurking and suspicious of them. Famously the judge ruled in the trial racial profiling couldnt be used but profiling could be. You talk about in the book the evolution of your thinking. How initially you say is this really a race thing . How does race factor in . Discomfort at the beginning even with people using these terms of race. But by the end, again, i really appreciate this because you walk us through your thinking as you were feeling the parts of this case come together, and you start to say what else could it have been . Now with the hindsight of these years, and a steady drum beat addition of names being added, what role do you think race played in the death of your son . I think it played a major role. For one, it goes back to the 911 tapes. They tried to say it was one thing he said and we realize it was Something Else that the killer of our son was saying on the tapes. He just had the perception that all black and brown men were up to no good. He said it in his tapes this guy is up to no good. How can you be up to no good when simply walking home from the store . We definitely knew that race played a part. You know . We wanted did we want this to be a case where it was just an unjust killing so we tried to look at it from a dual lens and say that maybe race didnt play a part. But the further we went along in the trial, and we saw it come out in the jury pool selection. We saw it come out in some of the things the Defense Attorneys were saying and so by the end of the trial we definitely knew it was about race. And race played a huge part in our sons death and anybody who says that race didnt play a part didnt even watch the trial. You are a black man as well, tracy. I think there is an experience very often when black men and women talk about their experience as white audiences yus dont get it and cant understand what it is like to be followed around in the store or feel stalked in this way by someone or people feeling suspicious of you by your presence. What was, had you and trayvon had questions about that as he was coming up . What were your feelings . You were watching your son go through this thing even after his death being cast in a certain way and stereotyped in certain ways. What were you have feelings as a black man seeing your son cast this way . It was hurtful. Knowing we are four or five generations eliminated from slavery and just the thought of how people think about us and how they think we are less than hundred percent human. It is crazy to think i work with you, pay the same taxes you pay, shop at the same stores you shop at but your perception of me is i am not good enough to stand in line with you. It is very hurtful especially when you have a 17yearold that you know you have invested a lot in and that you have taught him everything, you know, dos and dont and the laws of the land. But just having a person that dont know him make comments about him and sort of demoralize him was hurtful. But at the same time, we know the things they were saying were not true because we know who he was not only as our son but as an africanamerican young man we knew who he was. So we wasnt asking for anything that any other parent would not have wanted to for their own child. Because i feel like everything was a struggle with the information about what happened was a struggle you cannot believe with this person says so they have to do to challenge of getting answers and tracy had to struggle with the and the medical examiners to get the body released. We had to work with the state of florida to get them to pursue the case even harder once the special case was a struggle it was a complete struggle during the time we were grieving so while we were trying to get answers in all played a part when but would did take place we had good legal representation that gave us the advice that we needed because we had a guideline because we were so passionate to get justice 44 when it was finally announced it was so quickly your son has been killed that may be the person who killed him has not been arrested you fight with the special prosecutor you fight with the grand jury the and finally the man who killed your son will face these charges. And at that particular time with the judicial system if it was a for the special prosecutor if a wood made to that grand jury would have died there. So when the announcement came they would be arrested Second Degree murder charges , although we thought they should have been first degree, the arrest was made. But we were at a place that we were hopeful also looking for a conviction. But if the issue was on the other foot and he was 28 killing a 17 yearold white tuned man be know there would have been interesting plot without going through what weve been through. And that kid would have went to the morgue and trade on would have won it to present in reno that for sure and that is how the just Justice System works no doubt when it comes to with ortiz minorities to give others killing minorities. So the announcement of the charges is a huge part in worse still hopeful. Host when did you lose some of that hope westering this book so to read through the experience sitting every day in the trial to find out the person who killed their son i appreciate you sharing your reaction in realtime to the dialogue of the trial you both will present specific things where you said i dunno i wish they would amass more specifically about this saw bear initial interview of george zimmerman. Few said maybe manslaughter but i remember the notes from the last young lady to speak to treyvon before his death with this crossexamination goes on for hours in the vichy was getting frustrated. What was it like to be in the court room with the person who killed your son in the ministers who are sitting around do it becomes so close to achieving justice where is their number that you felt of the he was going to get off quick. There were times. That was the first trial so i am not familiar with the trials. I dont know the process. There were times that i would listen and i would notice if you have an attorney they can say and do almost anything that we have this data for the prosecuting the case if they do things by the book. People to own Pay Attention to that that audience sitting there witnessing the wolf saying so is seems they can do almost anything. It was of process and procedures they had to follow that these are the parameters and they would not do anything outside of that. And i dont know of it has to do with how much money you have bantu prosecutes the case but it seems so unfair just sitting there listening and with tracy always says is they never brought in any character witnesses for trephine treyvon we could only your the picture of who the person was that was shot and killed. Their job was to get the client off so they did not care who he was but you have to be careful especially with your own children off. So talk about this media focus and the leaks of his School Record set should have men sealed as a juvenile now asking him if he was on drugs. I rampart a time there were on the twitter page. And i was a college you and i know what twitter pages look like. In almost felt like and sometimes treyvon was on trial and with the public grabbling so what does that feel like to watch your son go through this publicly all these people who dont know him talking about him . Guest never proclaimed t6 to be an angel. We only say he was an average teenager who has ups and downs with good days and bad days and times they hang with the bad crowd and then their family. So those stories were hits in and mess. Some have little truth and some were not even true at all. There were pictures of him and going around. It is upsetting to have to go through that as a parent and then listen it was said but it was said to justify why somebody shot and killed the unarmed teenager. You cannot justify that. I dont care if he stole something out of the store. I dont care if it was wed i dont care. I dont care he was suspended from school. He was my son and i love him dearly. He did not deserve to die. He did not deserve to die. That is what people dont understand. Regardless of who he was his ups and downs. We all make mistakes. Nobody is perfect for going disease teetoo said back and say he did this. He was suspended from school. So that means you should be shot and killed . No. Where did that come from . Because this country takes death and shootings and killings so nonchalantly. We have to be more mindful over death and that person just because of that sense. Because that did not have to happen. What was that like . We have been campaigning that felt like a separate reception of the way you were not even there anymore when the announcement had come to say we have to go home. You drove back and watching aunt before the announcement there was time before you made a Public Statement but what rethinking while you may have suspected this would happen . We knew there would not be a conviction once we left the courtroom so we put our minds together even though there isnt a conviction and we didnt want people to remember him who he was. We had the uphill battle. And that we would have to work harder than me ever had to work to keep his name in the forefront to pull the cover off the injustices so we knew we had our work cut out for us in we would continue to fight for justice. With me left the courtroom we knew we were discouraged to navigate through that to stay strong but this is about everybody elses kids so i just think that in maine this realize you cannot put all your a eggs in one basket so you do and that was a conviction basket. Once that was emptied out what do we do know . So we would gather our thoughts to say this is the next move. So talk about the time at as you walk us through but one thing that is not in the book that is absent is the name of the man who killed your son. George zimmerman very often referred to p. Has ben in and out of the news has ever never bend any contact . We know he has made Public Statements but you were linked for better or for worse what about the feelings . I met were i was i am still at that place i have a incurred in the if i told you that my position has changed that there is a lot of baker because we can never get back the only thing that would detach that is if our son was here. So i think there is a lot of resentment and hurt and pain would never want to sit down and dialogue . There are motions better still running deep in the because of the love idol think i will get to was space in my life. He had the chance to explain why he did it during the trial so that was a chance to explain this all i am still at the same point with the time that Rendell Sharpton trying to get him arrested he says a you determined to hang in there no matter what . I am a mother and one justice for my son what does that look like for you know . And and and what does that fight still looks like . Formally e. It is probably a little different and if i could not get treyvon back then life should be given that is what it looks like to me. And i truly believe that. But to have so many evil people in this world that would shoot and kill somebody that would be less than honest so it bothers me a great deal but i just tried to put my best foot forward the takes mine distraction off one need to be doing for mason with the initial codification of the rallies and marches in then to tell us story when it comes down to baltimore with the conception of the black lives matter it shows what happens in the years following and with this talent steven your ground was. And then to be the power not to be convicted there arent it is not clear in with this dien your ground was we saw this in the jordan davis case so they play loud music so lets shoot up the car. To say if they try to use steam in your ground. Is the notion with young black and brown boys and can get away with it. But that is something we have to take a look at. What would the momentum of the allied p. . With then to say i was standing my ground . So lets not wait until a makes a change to the law. We have to take a look did different perspectives. It was very discouraging. So and how many cases that this was the African American man that you stand your ground on another africanamerican . Even with Police Brutality you dont see black officers brutalizing young white men. You dont see that. So there toss to be a revision and dave repeal. So if this a combination of with reverend sharpton and or jackson also the birth of a young activist those that are united for justice. If with the ferguson that could have been me with older school black people coming together in these ways so they realize we have not been treated fairly with the surveillance cameras and with cameras phones that people are more aware so they have Police Officers that are being charged and going before a grand jury that did not happen before it is a slow move. But when you can see a man was shot in the back and running away that they could impose at that time i dont understand the things that is going on. And then to make a change. With his as we see the mentoring program they say all the time middlefield save and i always felt safe. So there is a lot about the direction with safety and protection there is a lot about this country. When we look back at the last decade with that movement for black lives matter and people point to the death of your son when you get the first call on your son much less now that it is a stain factor also referring to emmitt till and how they try to get justice for their son and how they became the spark. What do you think of the of legacy and the activism and we definitely think of treyvon as a young man who would galvanize the country. And with one call for justice. And just to know that his name had structure to be a spark for the new civil rights movement. There has been an abundance of people who have come before us such juicy how the new movement is that young people are not afraid to go out and protest this is not the 50s or the 60s we have to be afraid of our jobs. To say that black lives matter we look at it with of content lateen at running away from the officer and getting shot instilled being choked out in new york over cigarettes. That is why we say black lives matter. They do matter but it is not whether culture this is happening to but when will this country start to realize that black lives matter that treyvon to be a part of the new movement with of parents of who have been killed with the mentor shipped look at the work that the trade on Margin Foundation does. To connect with the other mothers and fathers and what we created in we empower those families to come together. It isnt about tracy and i bet to bond with those families so we can heal together we love talking to young people because we know their yacht their mind is still shippable we know that whereas they get older they dont want to change their ways but the young peoples minds are mobile. Multiple and we enjoy talking to the young people because of that we know they are our future but this is bringing awareness to gun violence lot of people want to try to help the Treyvon Martin foundation and we love the support but they need to work in their own community to make a difference. Whether a nonprofit or would ever organization whenever grassroots to make a difference in their community. Host you have been generous with her time today with your thoughts and story. In closing, what should the family is out there watching today, white or black, learn of the story that you share . One of the main takeaways as the family you need to come together when faced with adversity. And learn how to navigate through that ever city. The book is very therapeutic , informative, he aling and goes into depth about parents not being perfect. We tell the story how we your not perfect and it treyvon is not perfect. Said to have a glance
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