Transcripts For CSPAN General John Nicholson Tells Senate We Are In A Stalemate In Afghanistan 20170209

Good morning, we meet to receive testimony on the situation in afghanistan, i am pleased to welcome general john ,icholson back to the committee we thank you for your many years of distinguished service and leadership of u. S. And allied forces in afghanistan at a critical time. We would ask you to relate to the brave men and women fighting under your command how appreciative and how proud we are of their service. At war ins been afghanistan for more than a decade and a half. It is always worth remembering that American Forces went to afghanistan because that was where, under the century of the under the taliban regime, now counted planned and trained for the september 11 attacks that killed 3000 innocent civilians on american soil. Our mission was to ensure that afghanistan would never again be a safe haven for al qaeda or other terrorist groups to attack america or our allies and partners, that mission has been successful for 15 years but it is not over. American forces are carrying out that Mission Today by performing to critical tasks, counterterrorism and training, advising and assisting our afghan partners. Both of these tasks are vital to achieving our strategic goals in protecting our homeland. We are taking the fight to americas enemies in afghanistan while at the same time holding a sustainable a sustainable Afghan Security forces that can stand on its own and take on violent extremists and deny terrorists safe haven in their country. Unfortunately, in recent years, peptide the hands of our military in afghanistan, and instead of trying to win, we settle for trying not to lose. Time and again, we saw a troop withdrawals that seem to have a lot more to do with american politics than conditions on the ground in afghanistan. The fixation with the socalled force Management Levels in afghanistan and in iraq and syria, seem far more about measuring troop levels than measuring success. Authorities were also highly restrictive, until last summer our villager was prohibited from targeting the taliban except in the most extreme circumstances, taking the pressure off the militants and allowing them to rebuild and reattach. While we were fighting crisis in syria and iraq, authorities in afghanistan were so restricted that it took an entire year before American Forces were finally given authority to strike isis fighters in afghanistan. In short, for too long, our strategy in afghanistan has been do not lose. Meanwhile, the risk you americanAfghan Forces has grown worse as the terrorist threat has intensified. Grown more has lethal and expanded territory and inflicted heavy casualties on Afghan Forces. In october, the taliban launched multiple concurrent offenses that seriously threatened for provincial capitals while Afghan Forces with u. S. Support successfully defended those capitals, the taliban seized the initiative, cap to the pressure on Afghan Forces, and captured new ground. In afghanistan, as we have seen elsewhere around the world, as americas pullback, vacuums have opened and have been filled by more of our enemies, al qaeda and a network continue to threaten our interests in afghanistan and beyond with isis trying to carve out another safe haven from which it can plan and execute attacks. Iran is reportedly arming and funding the taliban, and if the situation were not complicated enough, russia is now meddling in afghanistan and in an apparent attempt to prop up the taliban and undermine the United States. I want to stress an important important point, afghans are in the fight. They are not looking to us or anyone else to do their fighting for them. They are proud people who want people who wantom to defend the room country, they are taking significant casualties. At the same time, they want and need our continued assistance, it is in our National Interest to help our afghan partners become capable of standing on their own, defending their own country and defeating our common enemy with less and less assistance. Securing afghanistan and preventing another attack on our homeland requires the right number of people and the right places with the right authorities and the right capabilities. Has the administration opportunity to turn the page and finally get our commanders the resources and authorities they need to seize the initiative and force the enemy to react. Instead of the other way around. This will likely require additional u. S. And coalition forces, and more flexible authorities, it will require sustained support to the Afghan Security forces as they develop developling key enabling capabilities, including intelligence, logistics, special forces, support. Closed air support we in the congress have a vital role to play in providing the support, especially for the afghan aviation initiative. Succeeding in afghanistan will also require a candidate evaluation of americas relationship with pakistan. Haveands of pakistanis served and sacrificed in the fight against our common terrorist enemies. Many gave their lives and recent Counterterrorism Operations in north waziristan. , numerousemains terrorist groups still operate within pakistan, attacked its neighbors, and kill u. S. Forces. Put simply, our mission in afghanistan is an measurably more difficult if not impossible while our enemies pose as a safe haven in pakistan. These sanctuaries must be eliminated, if pakistani leaders have committed to doing the new Administration Must work with the congress to determine what additional actions are necessary to ensure that the enemies we continued to fight in afghanistan can find no quarter in pakistan or in any other country. America has been at work in afghanistan for 15 years. War in afghanistan for 15 years and it is imperative we see the mission through to success, we have seen what happens when we fail to be vigilant. The threats we face are real and the stakes are high the stakes are high, not just with the lives of the Afghan People and the stability of the region, but for Americas National security. To join inlike welcoming general nicholson, thank you for your service and her presence here today. As general nicholson often points out, afghanistan and pakistan area is home to the highest concentration of designated terrorist organizations in the world. Given this context it is important the United States in conjunction with nato and our other allies continue our commitment to the stability of afghanistan. Pakistani support for extremist groups operating in afghanistan, whether passive or deliberate, afghanistanwe and will achieve level levels needed of security. President obama maintaining 8400 troops in afghanistan into 2017 and provide robust support for the Afghan National defense and Security Forces lay the foundation for sustainable u. S. And International Presence in afghanistan, the decision is sent an Important Message to afghans, the taliban, and others in the region, couldnt pakistan regarding the commitment of the United States to continue progress in afghanistan. Support the continued of the Afghan People, we should adopt a conditionsbased approach to our presence in afghanistan that upright provides flexibility in the number of military personnel deployed there in support of our longerterm strategy. January 2017 market second year and was the Afghan Security or the chief guarantors of security in afghanistan, these forces continue to demonstrate determination and operational cohesion, even as they have been confronted by challenges, including intensified urban combat, increased casualties, and nearly continuous conflict that has hit at their ability to reset. This sustained operational temple is also a challenge beyond Coalition Training efforts and contributed to the difficulties of recruiting and retraining troops. , sustained combat operations have taken a particular toll on the Afghan Special Operations Forces, the most capable of the Afghan Security forces. They have been relied upon heavily to retake territory from the taliban, and overreliance on their special capabilities is is resulting in a high level of casualties and i look forward to your assessment of the performance of the Afghan Forces over the past year and played for sustaining the force and addressing remaining capability shortfalls. Aghanistan is and must remain key pillar of our longterm a global counterterrorism strategy , we continue to observe more aggressive taliban operations, capable of pressuring the Afghan Security forces simultaneously on multiple fronts. This is compounded by elements of the socalled Islamic State in iraq and the labonte and the lk, whone province orisi remained in afghanistan this fights suffering losses despite suffering losses, the Pakistani Military has increased operation on their side of the border, this resulted in an increase in number of bytes in afghanistan, which is ironic addition, elements of al qaeda, the taliban, and other associated groups continue to enjoy safe haven along the afghanistanpakistan border. To hear yourrtant views on the status of ever counterterror fight and the resources you require to continue this mission. The National Unity government led by president donnie and as demonstrated the will to work to a complex set of issues with the goal of addressing muchneeded political and governmental reform. I hope they will continue to do so. Particularly with respect to anticorruption, economic development, and other government initiatives which bowie centric to longterm success. I look i look forward to hearing your progress made in helping the afghan Central Forces built and reform afghan institutions which are critical to our longterm security. Thank you again for your service to the country and i look forward to your testimony. Sen. Mccain welcome general. The you need to punch there you go. Gen. Nicholson thank you, sir, members of the committee, thank you for the honor of appearing before you today. I appreciate this opportunity to update you on our mission in afghanistan. To thank the committee for your leadership and your dedication to the men and women of the United States forces in afghanistan and the nato resolution for mission. Deeply appreciate your visits to afghanistan and your steadfast support for protecting our homeland. Your commitment is also in building and enduring partner in the Afghan National defense and Security Forces. They know that we support them. It gives them the confidence they need to do their job. I would like to start by honoring the men and women who have served in afghanistan who are currently deployed there. U. S. Service members, nato allies, and by the way, the nato allies to invoke article five after 9 11 have been by our side ever since in afghanistan. And our nato partners who have joined the mission in afghanistan. I particularly want to highlight the role of the nato framework ,ations, italy, germany, turkey who provided leadership, manning , and funding and are nonnato partners such as georgia, the larger desk largest nonnato troop contributing nation. We should remember that as we sit here today, five americans and two citizens from our Coalition Partners are being held hostage in unknown locations. By members of the taliban aligned network. I would like to highlight the case of a doctor who has been unjustly imprisoned. Mennt to know it the brave and women of the Afghan Security forces and the people of afghanistan who are fighting for a secure and stable country, the success of our mission depends on their courage, determination, and sacrifice. Those heally remember made the ultimate sacrifice for our country in afghanistan. Their strength and the strength of their families inspires us to do our jobs. Our pledge is that we will deliver on their sacrifice. Main objective in afghanistan is to prevent our country from being used this country from being used as a safe haven for terrorists to attack the United States and our allies. We perform to complementary missions, the u. S. Counterterrorist mission, operation freedom sentinel, and the nato train, advise, and assist mission, Operation Resolute support. Of the 98 use as u. S. Designated terrorist groups globally, 20 operate in the afghanistanpakistan region with three violent extremist organizations, the highest concentration of terrorist groups anywhere in the world, which underscores the importance of our counterterrorism platform and essential asiasalvation region which protect our homeland. We remain focused on the defeat qaeda, and his associates, as well as the defeat of Islamic State khorasan province, the isil affiliate in afghanistan. Last year, the Afghan Forces developed and implemented a Detailed Campaign to take the fight to the enemy. It was a hard fight. But the Afghan Forces prevailed. They prevented the taliban from accomplishing any of their strategic objectives. The authorities and airpower which i was granted in june were critical to the success of the fight last year. The Afghan Special Operations Forces also played a crucial role, as a result of our role, as a result of our training, equipping, and partnering, the 17,000 strong Afghan Special forces are the best in the region. They now operate independently on roughly 80 of their missions. The Afghan Air Force is also rapidly gaining capability. The first rather tax aircraft entered the fight in april. They are now integrating Intelligence Surveillance and reconnaissance assets into the new targeting process, they are making great progress. Congressional approval of the funding for the Afghan Air Force is key to improving the offensive capability of the Afghan National defense and Security Forces. There is an urgency to this request, in order to get these aircraft and air crews into the as soon asble possible. I am concerned about external actors, particularly pakistan, russia, iran, who legitimize and support the taliban and undermine the Afghan Governments efforts to create a stable afghanistan. Our complex relationship with pakistan is best assessed through a holistic review. Many nations are committed to the success of afghanistan. Julye warsaw summit last nato reaffirmed its commitment until 2020the amd sf and at the brussels conference in october 75 countries and organizations confirm their intention to provide 15. 2 billion to Afghan Development needs which plays a very positive role going into the future. India has dedicated another 1 billion on top of the 2 billion they have already given to Afghan Development needs and we appreciate their support. These expressions of International Commitment reflects the importance which the world places on stability in afghanistan and confidence in and confidence in the Afghan People in and Afghan Government. The Afghan Security forces in 2016. Avely they will do the same this year and in the years in 2016. They will do the same this year and in the years ahead. The Afghan People have confidence in their Security Services and they do not want the taliban to return. They know all too well what that means. We have an Exceptional Partnership with their president and the chief of the chief executive and the Security Forces and the people of afghanistan. The president is making bold reforms and implement anticorruption efforts to improve the afghanistan Security Forces and the government of afghanistan is committed to achieving peace through how astion but long as external say caven persists, the path to reconciliation will be difficult. Afghanistan wants peace and we hope their neighbors realize that their best interests are also served by a peaceful and prosperous afghanistan. Mr. Chairman, committee members, it is a privilege to appear before you and i look forward to your questions. Losing . E winning or gen. Nicholson mr. Chairman, i believe we are in a stalemate. Sen. Mccain our afghan partners have been sustaining very significant losses. I am not sure that is sustainable. The level of losses they are experiencing. Gen. Nicholson we are very concerned about the level of losses. The recurrent recruitment replaces the level of losses that they are experiencing. However, it does not allow them to get to their full authorized strength, which they are below. Sen. Mccain according to the ig 15 e taliban controls carrot more territory than they did in 2015, g you agree do you agree . Gen. Nicholson yes, mr. Chairman, i do. Sen. Mccain 8400 u. S. Troops and 5000 coalition troops, i am fully aware, i know the numbers, numbers are just one parameter, it is what they do and how they do and how they are equipped, but it is an important parameter , how many more do you need to get this stalemate reversed . In. Nicholson mr. Chairman, have adequate resourcing in my Counterterrorism Mission, in my train, advise, and assist mission we have a shortfall of a few thousand. ,his is in the nato training advise, assist mission, this could come from the u. S. And its allies. Sen. Mccain shouldnt it be a concern to all of us that you now have russia, iran, and al significantaying roles, some more than the other . That wasnt the case a couple of years ago, was it . Gen. Nicholson i agree there is an increase in external actors interfering in the afghan attainment of peace and stability. Sen. Mccain the russian involvement . Gen. Nicholson the russian involvement this year has become more difficult. First, they have become the gun to publicly legitimize the taliban begun to publicly legitimize the taliban, they promote that the taliban are fighting Islamic State and the Afghan Government is not fighting Islamic State, therefore there could be a spillover of this group into the region. This is a false narrative. The Afghan Government, along with the u. S. Counterterrorism forces, are successfully fighting against Islamic State in afghanistan. This year alone we have reduced their fighters by half, their territory by two thirds, but yet we have killed their top 12 liters and continue to disrupt operations. Is your what it view concerning the safe avon issue in pakistan . Safe haven issue in pakistan . Gen. Nicholson difficult to succeed when your enemies enjoy safe haven, we need to work closely with pakistan. Sen. Mccain they did some good work in north waziristan, right . Gen. Nicholson they did and we have respect for for the operation they conducted, it was large and significant and a suffered heavy casualties. Gen. Nicholson different sen. Mccain the problem is the network . Gen. Nicholson that is correct, we still have enemy sanctuaries and areas like quite a with the taliban leadership and other cities within the tribal areas for the contribution. Sen. Mccain have your rules of engagement recently been to the point you have a greater ability to combat the enemy . Gen. Nicholson the rules of engagement i gained in june were instrumental to our success this year, they clearly helped us, these rules of engagement or authorities involved the use of u. S. Combat enablers, most notably airpower and support of Afghan Security forces. And their campaign. Sen. Mccain as you pointed out, the afghans want to fight for themselves, they do not want us to go in and fight for them. Gen. Nicholson right. Sen. Mccain if they will be affected, they need the kind of assistance and capability, including you might mention air capability that we are now training them for. For example, i am proud that many of them are training in f16s in tucson arizona, isnt that isnt there air capability and important ofponent of their capability getting responsibilities from us . Gen. Nicholson if i may elaborate, offensive capability is what will break the stalemate in afghanistan, the key offensive capabilities in the Afghan Security forces are there special forces and their air force. This investment which we are requesting in the afghan air youe will help them, as mentioned, to take over responsibility for their own air support, and even more important , this will be to an offensive capability that allows them to overmatch the taliban or any other group on the battlefield anywhere around the country. Sen. Mccain it might be nice if they could come to the United States to train. Gen. Nicholson yes, sir, and they look forward to this. Sen. Mccain they are not allowed to do this at the moment. Thank you for your service and please relay our thanks and gratitude to the men and women you lead. Gen. Nicholson i will, senator, thank you. Not only u. S. Forces but nato forces. You have stated your counterterrorism platform, both personnel and equipment is more than adequate for the task, is that your view . Gen. Nicholson yes, we have adequate resources and when we need to do additional operations , we can search assets into the country which is why it is acted, generals from Central Command and special Operations Command have the ability to move assets and coordination with the department, so this has proven to be a successful tactic. Sen. Reed the need for more manpower is on the train, at thisassist area, juncture, you are operating at the core level . Gen. Nicholson that is correct. Sen. Reed exceptions . Gen. Nicholson in the last summer since we gain the last authorities in june, we have been developing advising packages which we pushed below the core level, this was something we put together based on the authorities and approved quite successfully, but we would like to advise below the core level. This is something nato has agreed to, strictly a question of manning. Sen. Reed so you would be able to have more of these teams below the core level, at the battalion level, but not the individual Company Platoon level . Gen. Nicholson most likely at the brigade level that we think that would be adequate. Sen. Reed our nato allies are prepared to help in terms of looking up these forces bulking up these forces . Gen. Nicholson a great help from germany, italian in the west are looking at something been able toave integrate u. S. Expeditionary advising packages around the country as required in a seamless manner. Chairman andth the myself and you and your Opening Statements have commented on the criticality of dealing with pakistan. It is a complicated situation as you have pointed out, they have conducted serious and very credible operations, they sustain casualties. On the other hand, they seem their Intelligence Service seems to assist the Haqqani Network and others. You have had some dealings with the new chief of staff of the army, i do not know if there were dealings with the new head of isi, does it make sense to onus our persuasive efforts not the overall country, but specific sub elements within pakistan . Gen. Nicholson i have Great Respect for the Pakistan Military and its leaders. I am developing a positive and constructive relationship with a general and his team. We have Great Respect for the operations they have conducted in the father and us both you and the germans have mentioned, the pakistan people have suffered from terrorism. I sincerely want to eliminate those terrorists that are attacking their society. If i may, i may like to highlight one example, this year, u. S. Counterterrorism efforts kill someone named omar, he was the head of a group who perpetuated the harvards attack on the bush our army school this attack killed over 130 children and the twoyear commemoration was in december. An example of how the United States is working with pakistan against our common enemies. In a rated this year in eastern afghanistan, we liberated the son of the former pakistani prime minister. And returned him to his family in pakistan. Ofighlight these as examples how the u. S. Is working with pakistan against common enemies but we need to improve in the areas we need you mentioned, improve the pressure applied on the taliban on the pakistan side of the border. Sen. Reed thank you again for your service. I look forward to your continued service. Thank you. Gen. Nicholson thank you, senator. Thank you, mr. Chairman. You were generous enough to come to the office and we had a nice visit and i wanted a couple things that have been responded to so i will not bring them up, one was the fact that the Afghan Security forces, the districts they control has gone down to 57 from the 72 which you responded to in the german question. The second thing the chairmans question, the second thing which you answered is the troop levels, except, as it is 8500 ofw, we have about our guys over there and 12,500 total . Gen. Nicholson yes, sir. Sen. Inhofe you said the shortfall is a few thousand. We need to correct in order to accomplish what we are trying to. When you say a few thousand, is that ours or the total allies and the total figure . Train,cholson in the advise, assist mission which is a nato mission so these contributions could come from our allies or the United States. We have identified the requirement and the desire to advise below the core level, these Additional Forces would help us thicken our advisory effort across the afghan ministries and do more advising below the core level. This i am currently in discussion with my chain of , secretary matus and the generals and when secretary matus has a test to attend the defense ministerial and consult with allies and visit the theater, we will be able to discuss this in greater detail. Sen. Inhofe that clarification is good, necessary because the media will cover this and we want to make sure they know what we are talking about. The main thing i wanted to cover know, weat is you have these meetings, we have private meetings with you and the great people we are depending on and im very proud of all of you and what is going on, we have that opportunity and you have the opportunity to consult with us because we have a little answer contact with the people out there who are paying for all of this. Is of the problems we have even in my state of oklahoma, that in we have been there 15 worked alle is that of that why is that worth all of that, the strongest thing i can say is something i honestly believe in my heart, if we do not do it over there it will be done in the homeland. You address this in your written statement. When you said your predecessor, that if we do not stay engaged to build the afghan capacity to fight the threat, keep the sanctuary down, it is coming back to our homeland. You reemphasized that in your opening statement. What i would like to do i think it is worth getting into the record here asked to how this may affect something on our homeland. We understand this, we have a lot of things and confident for briefings and it is important for the country to know that. Any comments you can make on any specific, i know that when you the death of lets see they had actually made had plans for an attack on the mainland, can you comment . Gen. Nicholson thank you for the opportunity to articulate this. We believe that our operations in afghanistan directly protect the homeland. The individual you are referring we killed him on october 23 in eastern afghanistan in a remote area of yunnan province. He was the external Operations Director for al qaeda, he was involved in plotting against the u. S. Homeland. One example, without getting into classified details, of a specific terrorist operating in afghanistan who was involved in plotting against the u. S. Homeland. More importantly, his organization, al qaeda, and their affiliates, have been severely graded and our them ine is to destroy afghanistan and we will continue to keep pressure but in order to do that, we need to maintain the counterterrorism platform we have in afghanistan. This is how it directly relates to our National Security at home. I would also say that from a height of our engagement in afghanistan over the past 15 years, we were over 100,000 troops, now down to 10 of that. As we look at this commitment over time, that surge we did into afghanistan, it allowed us to build the Afghan Security forces and it is they who are doing most of the fighting. At the height of our assistance to the Afghan Security forces was 10 billion to 12 billion and now down to about 3. 5 billion for the Afghan Security forces fund, with additional funds to support our troops. There has been a reduction in the overall cost of this mission to. Sen. Inhofe i appreciate that, it is the homeland connection that we need to be armed with an you have done a good job. Gen. Nicholson thank you, senator. Warren thank you for meeting with me earlier this week, i appreciate the generosity of your time, we officially ended our combat mission in afghanistan at the end of 2014 but we still maintain a substantial presence there. One of our primary objectives in afghanistan is to help build and sustain a capacity of the Afghan National defense and Security Forces to secure their own country, as he discussed. That includes paying salary for afghan personnel. I understand why this kind of support is powerfully important when you are trying to build a local force. In a report issued last month identifying the greatest threat to the success of our mission, a special Inspector General for Afghanistan Reconstruction repeated the nagging problem of salaries being paid to nonexistent or socalled ghost soldiers and ghost police officers. To succeed, i understand that the Afghan Forces must be trained and capable. Above all they must be fully manned, there must be people there. Although they are offering authorized at 352,000, reports have estimated there are still tens of thousands of those ghost first announced who are getting salaries personnel who are getting salaries, the strength of the Afghan Forces must be substantially less. It is dangerous for our troops, damaging to the mission, it is also plain old corruption, and the american taxpayers are footing the bill. General, i know you recently identified corruption as a serious problem that you wanted to tackle, one of the business Biggest Challenges facing the Afghan Security forces. Could you speak to the question of how we are helping the afghan ministries of defense and interior develop a fully operational system to help eliminate this problem . Gen. Nicholson thank you senator for highlighting this issue which is a critical issue. As we look at the high casualty rate last year, the principal cause we identified were failures in leadership on the battlefield. Second, was corruption. As you have highlighted, the corruption primarily has occurred in the pay system and the personal system as you have highlighted, and also in the supply system. The third factor of high casualties was tactics and primarily the reduction of the checkpoints, the isolated checkpoints that become more vulnerable to attack. Back to corruption, how to improve it . This is where i commented on the president s courage in going after this, we have done a number of things, in these specifics of ghost soldiers, we believe there are tens of thousands you were soldiers in the field soldiers fewer soldiers in the field that have been reported and we work closely with the cigar and the government of afghanistan. This year, in response to this problem, we have issued a letter to the Afghan Government advising them that we are withholding the funding for those soldiers who we cannot biometric ring account for thistrika account for, creates an identity in the system that is hard to fake, basically. As previously we paid based upon the number that they stated they had been. The biometric enrollment is ongoing and we look to have that complete in the next four months to five months. Then we will give them the money for those soldiers who are and rolled biometricly. And asked for better capabilities to find our money and follow our money to make sure it is not been diverted so we can be good stewards of taxpayer resources. Sen. Warren thank you very much, we have been in afghanistan for 15 years and funds, according to the special Inspector General we are spending 13 million every day to be in afghanistan. 13 million. 2000 American Service members have made the ultimate and more thane 8400 American Service members are there today, along with thousands of diplomatic personnel and contractors. Cannotry and our and should not be in afghanistan forever. Our finished goal must be to finish afghanistan build a selfsustaining force that is capable of securing the country so our u. S. Troops can come home. I appreciate your work in this direction, thank you, general. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you, general for your service and the service of those you command. It is appreciated by everyone in this country. When you and i had our conversation in my office we talked about possible additional capabilities that you would need. And we specifically focused in on the contractors that are in afghanistan now. Could you talk about the consequences of the socalled boots on the ground limitation that we are looking at . Particularly with respect to the reliance that we have on contractors. It has anlson invitation for us on the ground in afghanistan and for overall readiness of our Armed Services which i know is of great concern to this committee. Specifically, as the Manning Levels have taken effect, what we have done in some cases is substitute contractors for soldiers in order to meet the force Manning Levels. I will give you an example of that in the case of our Aviation Brigade. Our combat Aviation Brigade of the First Infantry Division from fort riley, kansas is in afghanistan and they deployed with their helicopters and their pilots and her staffs. Because of our troop limitations, we left their mechanics back in for riley and substituted contract mechanics. Optimizein order to the amount of actual uniformed soldiers we are allowed. Maintenancet for runs into the tens of millions of dollars. The soldiers who are trained to be mechanics are sitting back in for riley not having the opportunity to do their job. This has a direct impact on Army Readiness and costs us more money. As we have begun these discussions with the administration and with is, this is an issue we put on the table, how to optimize readiness and our performance in the battlefield by managing by objective and not by force Manning Levels. Currently, with contractors, we have a 21 ratio of contractors to soldiers and if we look at deploying all units instead of portions of units, this would enable us to reduce contractor loads somewhat and be better for army and service readiness. Sen. Fischer i would imagine you would raise those concerns and have asked for more flexibility from these limitations when you are able to have those discussions . Gen. Nicholson yes, senator. Sen. Fischer you spoke about the increase in russian involvement in afghanistan and the growing relationship they have with the taliban. Can you elaborate on that a little bit more. Given that they engage in extensive criminal activity, kidnapping, illegal mining and other criminal activity to fund their operations, russia has legitimized them with this false arrative of fighting isilk. They also have initiated a series of meetings in moscow, which the afghans have not been invited for the first several meetings, in which to discuss the future in afghanistan. Afghanistan has reached out to the russians about this. We believe that a peace and reconciliation process in afghanistan should be afghanled. This has been the position of the United States government. These are the, we believe this will be the most lasting, enduring, effective peace arrangement. So ultimately where were trying to go and help the afghans go is to try to get to a point where they reconcile with the belligerence and the long war theyve experienced and be able to move forward with a peaceful and prosperous country. Senator fischer thank you, general. Thank you, mr. Chairman, general, wonderful to have you here, appreciate the time we had yesterday in my office as well talking about a number of these issues. During this hearing, a number of folks have referenced the Inspector Generals report about whats been happening in afghanistan. I want to highlight some of these findings i find particularly striking and then ask a question. As others have mentioned, since 2001, 2,247 u. S. Military personnel have died, 20,000 have been wounded. Adjusted for inflation, the u. S. Has spent more on afghanistans reconstruction than on the Marshall Plan to rebuild western europe after world war ii. Reconstructing afghanistan has now become the largest expenditure to rebuild a single country in our nations history. The Afghan Security forces are not capable of providing security for the whole country. The Afghan Government cannot sustain many of the investments that the u. S. Tax pay verse made in in the country. Afghan opium production is now alltime high despite a billion investment in Afghan Security forces, only 63 of the country is under government control, corruption continues to erode alltime high legitimacy, support for the opposing insurgency and after 15 years, afghanistan still cannot support itself financially and longterm Financial Assistance will be required if the country is to survive. Not a good record after 15 years of involvement in afghanistan and after what ive heard today and what we talked about yesterday, its becoming even more complicated with russian involvement, chinese involvement, natural resources, and the list goes on. What ive heard is a lot of what ive heard over the last 15 years what the United States will be doing in afghanistan. What are we going to do thats different, that has not been this, i years given think pretty damage regular port about whats happened over the last 15 years. . Thank you, senator. I appreciate the reviewing this and the chance to talk about the lan for the way ahead. Jenny colson i acknowledge the great support from this body to sustain this effort. Our number one objective has been to protect the homeland and we have not had another attack on the homeland if the from afghanistan in the 15 years we have been there. As i mentioned before i acknowledge fully the significant cost we have made in after began stan. I would mention that we now are at about 10 of what we once were in terms of troop commitment and have reduced other expenditures significantly. Yes, the problems persist and i dont want to minimize those. What we have with president ghani is a partner who is willing to boldly go after these problems problems. This is significant. And the i offered the example of the ghost soldiers. This was something he was willing to do that previously we had not been able to do. I also want to share the plans we are working with the Afghan Government which president ghani calls the andsf road map, four 46 year road map. After the warsaw summit this sumner july of 2016, when the allies granted four more years of commitment to afghanistan, president ghani sat down with his team and us to say, how are we going to achieve success in the next four years . We are working on that plan now. This plan involves expanding the amount of control that the government has over the population. I should point out that this investment that we have made has resulted in an afghan population who universe lil, well almost universally, 87 reject the taliban. They do not want to. A population and a government who need our support. Eostrategically a population. We have a partner in afghanistan. A modern Islamic Republic that ants to partner with us. We have an ability to have a counterterrorism platform and a critically important in a critically important part of the world. So success Going Forward, we believe, means helping the after begans to achieve this greater population control. That then will enable us to have the enduring counterterrorism plat frm form to help to continue to protect our homeland and those of our allies. We also see, if we can get to a place of reconciliation, that we then bring a degree of stability to this critical region that will benefit the entire neighborhood to include india, china, everyone. So in my initial conversations with my new chain of command, we have touched upon all of these areas. So your concerns and the concerns of this committee are at the top of the list as we discuss this Going Forward on how we can achieve success in afghanistan Going Forward to protect our National Interests along the lines i just outlined. Thank you, general. Senator mccain general, i might add, there are some of us who predicted exactly the scenario thats taking place as the previous president withdrew our forces to levels that put remaining troops lives in danger and were doomed to failure because of everything ranging from incredible rules of engage that engagement that required National Security Council Approval to repel an attack to the unilateral and unnecessary and unwarranted reduction of forces which led us to the position were in today which was predicted. Predicted. By many of us who know something about warfare. Senator cotton. Senator cotton general, welcome back. You have heard skepticism in the past about the on fwoing mission in afghanistan. We have accomplished things that benefit the Afghan People, they are safer, they have more g. D. P. Per capita. They have better education, especially for girls. Those are all great things. We have to worry more, though, about the safety and the prosperity and the education of the American People. Could you tell nuss plain language, what are the American People, what are working folks out in arkansas, getting for more than 15 years of our presence in afghanistan . Jenny colson thank you, for that question, and for your support and service in afghanistan. Our number one goal is to protect the homeland from any attack emanating from the region and of course we have achieved that in the last 15 years. However we need to stay on top of it because of this confluence of 20 terrorist groups in the region. I believe this is an enduring commitment to keep pressure on these groups and help the afghans move toward a Successful End state. What would that look like . Success might be the mint mans of this enduring counterterrorism effort to keep pressure on these groups. It means we would destroy Islamic State and al qaeda inside afghanistan, something we are actively pursuing every day. It means we would help the Afghan Security forces and government to extend their control to a larger and larger percentage of the population. It means that we would help afghanistan to become ideally a place where reconciliation is achieved with belligerence and then they can become a more stable and prosperous entity in a critical part of the world. I recognize the distance of afghanistan and the length of this has been challenging for the American People to support. However, i personally believe that this effort that were undertaking there is protecting the homeland and preventing these terrorists from bringing their fight to our doorstep. Senator cotton if the United States saze, we had enough, 15 years is enough, lets roll up the operation there and come home, do you think we would face the risk of an attack plan and directed from afghanistan . Jenny colson yes, definitely. Senator cotton thats a pretty big success then in our time there. A year ago, your predecessor testified about his concern over the role iran was playing in afghanistan. Could you give us your view of what iran has been up to in the last year since he testified . Jenny colson iran is supporting the taliban in western afghanistan. Theres a complex relationship between afghanistan and iran, it not only involves Security Matters like this, iran is recrowding afghan shia to fight against Islamic State in syria and iraq. There were also areas of cooperation between iran and afghanistan. Number one would be economic cooperation. The governments of india, iran and afghanistan signed an agreement over the port in southern afghanistan. This niche ty would be beneficial to afghanistan in terms of economic development. Theres also ongoing conversations about water treaties between afghanistan and iran. Iran needs afghanistans water. So its a complex relationship. It has areas of potential synergy and benefit for both parties. But it also has important security equities. E Afghan Government is is raising these issues with the government of iran and asking them not to support the taliban and undermine the Afghan Government. Is irans support 234er taliban primarily or exclusively located in hambings rat and ferrar . Or is it throughout the country. Jenny colson without getting into classified material, id say its primarily in the west, in the north and kabul in particular. Senator cotton so iran is supporting a sunnilead movement but recruiting shiite from afghanistan to travel to syria to fight. Seems like a complex movement from tehran united by a single interest, uniting against u. S. Interests. Jenny colson when we look at them, i believe theyre there to undermine the United States and nato and prevent our, this Strong Partnership that we have with the afghans in the region. But it is complex, as you point out. They are recruiting shia, the afghans are concerned about the theea fighters returning to afghanistan at some point, and what will they and will they become a destabilizing force or not. Senator cotton thank you, general, say hi tooth troops and stay safe. Jenny colson thank you. I want to continue the discussion about isil specifically. The afghan spokesman said they were active in 11 of the countys 34 districts. He reports russia, china, and pakistan met to discuss the growing influence of isil in afghanistan. Whats your understanding of the size and lethality of afghanistan and what was the role in the meeting and what coordination have you seen between the Afghan Government and its regional counterparts to date . Jenny colson theres no u. S. Role in the russia dialogue as far as i understand with respect to isil. This was a conference where they invited china, pakistan, and now other regional countries and i believe for the next meeting they have extended an invitation to afghanistan. So back to isil, so we saw Islamic State was formed of existing fighters from existing groups in afghanistan and pakistan, primarily their membership has come from the t. T. P. A pakistanbased opponent of the pakistan regime. From the agency. These fight enmeas joined isilk en masse joined isilk and moved into the province an their spread out to about 11 districts initiality. They have had recruitment activities around the country but they attempted to establish their form of the caliphate starting in nangahar province with jalal bad as the capital. This was their aspiration but they failed to achieve it. When authorities were granted for the u. S. To begin striking islam exstate, since that time we have worked closely with the afghans, doing several deliberate operations against the Islamic State. We have done three of these in my time. We have shrunk their geographic space from this larger 11district number down to a smaller three to four districts in southern angar, but they are still there. And they have shown an ability to conduct suicide attacks inside kabul and elsewhere arn the country. So they have attacked shia targets primarily. They attacked in a peaceful demonstration. They attacked shia mosques. They attacked on shia religious holidays. So we see a definite isilkshia connection there. I would comment this group is universally rejected by the Afghan People. These are primarily nonafghans in this group, in addition to the t. T. P. We have members of the Islamic Movement of uzbekistan. Are there some afghans in there . Yes. But very few and generally id say theyve been attracted by the money, isil pays their fighters more and by the ideology and the effective information on that. Senator jill brand which countries are they from . Jenny colson from pakistan and uzbekistan. Enator jill brand can you senator gillibrand canned you talk about them taking control in parts of the country where taking control . En nicholson general jenny colson general nicholson the taliban rejected the peace process. I think at that point, we were working very closely with pakistan, the United States, china, afghanistan, pakistan working together. On this process. Ince then weve lost ground. The pakistan leadership has articulated they support our objective of a peaceful afghanistan. All leaders said theyre committed to this. Thus far we have not seen this translate into any change in erms of behavior, if you will. Senator gillibrand it was reported that the first afghan female Fighter Pilot was seeking asylum in the u. S. Last year. What is the status of women in afghanistan today and have the successes we have made been unwound . General nicholson i think we have made many successes with women in afghanistan, maam. Let me expand beyond the services, although well come back to that. When the taliban were there only one million children were in school. Thats expanned now to about nine million children, 40 are women. You have women parliamentarians, women ministers, women governors, women members of the provincial councils, 3,000 women in the ministry of interior. We are making progress across the board on the role of women in society and throughout their military. This is a high priority for the president and his wife. Her excellencey and i chair a meeting on a quarterly basis called women in security and all ministers come to this. My wife has attended this meeting. We have worked together on these issues frequently. We appreciate the support from this committee and the congress on funding womens initiatives. They have been very important Going Forward. Senator gillibrand thank you, its great to see you back on american soil. I also want to take the time to thank your family who is with you today, for their support of you and sharing you and your talent in a leadership capacity in a very difficult theater of operations. Thank you and your family very much. Id like to pick up where we left off in afghanistan when i visited a couple of monses ago. Senatorerness you better than most understand senator erness you better than senator ernst you understand the establishment of the first ranger battalion, that is established in the army , he said that this unit was to be, and im going to quote him, an elite, light, and most proficient infantry in the world a battalion that can do things with its hands and weapons better than anyone. Wherever the battalion goes it must be apparent that it is the best, end quote. And today the army does continue with the Abrams Charter and we send our rangers into regular units, all around the globe. And we know that this is for the betterment of those units and to boost their performance. We have had a discussion about the afghan regular forces and how they werent performing maybe as they should be but the Afghan Special forces were performing quite well. But they were being overutilized. Do you think its time that the afghan army introduce, per se, an Abrams Charter into its own forces and start sharing some of those talents with the regular units so that they can boost their performance as well . General nicholson thank you very much, senator. I want to thank you for your service in our army and in afghanistan. Thank you for the visit and it was great that your unit that you commanded was in afghanistan at the time you visited and they deeply appreated yr visit. I also appreciate very much your sentiments for my family, thank you, ill pass that on to everyone. And on with respect to Ranger Regiment, i think the reason i was smiling is youre hitting on an exact team were working with the afghans. I want to acknowledge the contribution that the 75th Ranger Regiment are making to our campaign in afghanistan and have done for years. My personal Security Officer is a member of the 75th Ranger Regiment and as an example, he has 15 deployments to afghanistan. 15 deployments to afghanistan. And the rangers are key in our Counterterrorism Mission in afghanistan Going Forward. Youre exactly right about the Abrams Charter and in fact in working with president ghani, we have worked closely on how to leverage the excellence that we have seen in the Afghan Security forces, after began special forces and leverage that for the good of the rest of the army. So one of the hallmarks of the fouryear road map which we are working together on is to increase the size of the Afghan Special forces. These these unit because these units have proven so effective on the battlefield. We cant produce these units overnight, as you well know, maam, it takes years to grow a special operations soldier, a ranger a commando. So we are embarked upon a plan where they are recruiting more commandos now and we are expanding those units one company at a time so that in the four years we have gained by the warsaw summit, we will almost double the number of special forces units. When we couple that with the air force capability, this gives an offensive punch to the Afghan Security forces that the enemy will not be able to stand up to. So this the nucleus of special forces will provide the offensive capability to the afghan army to enable it to expand, to break the stalemate and expand their control over the country. Senator ernst im glad to hear that. In spring, 300 marines are set to go to helmut province. Thats historic for the marines. 80 of the province is now controlled by the taliban a province that supplies the taliban with approximately 60 of their funding. And its my understanding that the marines are replacing an equally sized army unit that is currently deployed in the region. The chairman stated something about, you know, were not really trying to win, were just trying not to lose. Do you see this as moving the ball forward in the ability to help the afghans . Or are we going to continue to see losses in hellmund . General nicholson maam, first off, to echo the conversation i had with the chairman, we want to succeed in afghanistan. We believe that success in afghanistan is critical to the United States, to the Nato Alliance and of course to the Afghan People. Hellmund, as you pointed out is important to the taliban because as a narcoinsurgency, this is where they get their money. And the principal poppyproducing provinces are hellmund, kandahar, and to the west, increasingly, farah province. So the advisory effort at the end of 2014, as we drew down our presence, we shrunk our advisory effort in hellmund and other places around the country significantly. So in the last year it became apparent that we needed to, instead of advising on an add hoc basis, we needed on an ad hoc basis, we needed to go in with a structure purposely built to advise. When we reached this conclusion, i reached out to the commandant, general neller, to request his assistance with this. The marine corps has deep experience in hellmund they have a lot of skin in the game and did a great job there. We wanted to see if the marine corps could help us with this critical area thats been so important and their impressive legacy. Were grateful that the marines have stepped up to assist in hellmund and we look forward to getting the team over there. Theyll be arriving this spring and when they come in, theyll have a more structured advisory effort than weve had up to this point. The we have suffered casualties in hellmund in our advising capacity this year, sadly. And this was in our special forces units who are accompanying afghan commandos on missions in hellmund. But overall were going to work for to keep those potential casual fis to a minimum. Sadly, theres casualties to a minimum. Sadly theres been some fighting, we had another American Special forces soldier wounded this morning just before i walked into the hearing this highlights the criticality of the region and the need to keep focused on the afghan success down there. The final piece id add is that the 215th corps, the corps in sangan, after the tough fight in 215, we did a significant regeneration effort on the 215th corps. And again, we embarked on a significant regeneration effort now because that is where the afghans are suffering very high casualties. The we put in a new commander, his name is general amadzai, doing a great job with the unit there, but they need our help with regeneration and building. We have a great governor down there who is doing a very good job but we have experienced problems with Police Corruption to a significant extent which are undermining our efforts. So this is an area in relation to some of the earlier questions i answered on corruption and ghost soldiers in particular that were very foe that were very focused on is hellmund. Its a comprehensive effort to get he will mound hellmund back on track. Senator ernst thank you, general. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Senator mccain you stated at the beginning we are at a stalemate. Do you believe were developing a strategy to break that stalemate . General nicholson yes, senator. Senator mccain senator king. Senator king the original justification and one you emphasized today is a sanctuary argument, we have to stabilize afghanistan so it cant be used as a sanget ware for terrorist attacks on the homeland. My concern about that strategy is if its not afghanistan, it could be somewhere else. Thats a strategy that could justify significant investment and occupation, if you will, and i dont use that in a military term but presence in, you know, libya, iraq, syria, eastern pakistan. Where does it stop . In other words, our original mission was alchi depa. We were very successful. Al qaeda was broken up. But its moved to other places. Now were in the business of keeping afghanistan afloat from an enemy, from the tall began venban and all these other groups. Help me out with where you draw the lines on this sanctuary strategy which could be anywhere in the world. General nicholson thank you, senator for that question. I think there are some aspects that are unique to afghanistan that dont apply elsewhere in the world. Number one, the number of terrorist groups. The u. S. Has designated 98 groups globally, 20 are in afghanistan and pakistan. So this is the highest concentration anywhere in the world. So this policy of creating an encuring counterterrorism platform applies enduring counterterrorism platform applies to this in a way it would not in some of the other areas that dont have the high concentration of terrorists. I would suggest some of the other areas could be handled by our global counterterrorism strategy and i dont want to speak for general thomas of special Operations Command or the chairman or the joint staff but i know theyre working on this. But we think because of the high concentration of terrorists groups in this region it would necessitate an enduring counterterrorism platform. The conditions in this region also lend these 20 groups sit on top of a population between afghanistan and pakistan of over 200 million people. 75 of them are under the age of 30. Unemployment is low. There is radical forms of islam. It is like a petri dish into which you drop 20 strands of dna of these terrorists groups. We see convergence and growth in connection that develop. You understand the concern . Articulated why afghanistan let me change the subject. Opiate production is up. The feels are up. I would argue that we are being invaded every day and losing four people and our in this country to Overdose Deaths heroin, opium, growing in places like afghanistan. Weree feels in afghanistan terrorist camps killing four people in our in the United States, they would be gone. They would be long gone. Why dont we take that out . Power just your eliminate that source of scourge in our country . Gen. Nicholson yes, sir. Council is narcotics not the purview. You have highlighted an area that is extremely important to the outcome in afghanistan. I dont want to make afghanistan safe for shipping heroine heroin to the United States. Gen. Nicholson senator, i agree with you and support that. This is a topic that we have raised with our chain of command and need to be a part of policy consideration. I think the president has to has to understand that part of the support rest upon that industry, which is destructive around the world, but especially destructive in this country could finally, you mentioned pakistan in this country. Finally, you mentioned pakistan. What can we do to get pakistan off the dime on this issue . As you pointed out, there are plenty of areas they left untouched. What do we have to do . Cut off funding . Summit or something . We are doing all of this work in afghanistan, which will never achieve final success, or thorough success as long as pakistan is enabling this activity. An. Nicholson we need to do review of our pakistan policy and said della pakistan leaders. We have an opportunity for such a review given a new administration and the new chain of command. And we have many areas we could be working together. I think this is key to the future. I know i am committed to this and working with pakistani counterparts. Workdent donnie wants to towards a peaceful resolution. My initial conversations with my chain of command this is a high priority for all of us. Pakistan is a substantial recipient of u. S. Foreign aid. There should be some connections drawn because they are endangering american lives. Thank you very much, mr. Chairman. Thank you, general. I appreciate your time this week. Walking isaden Osama Bin Laden walking the face of the earth today . Gen. Nicholson no he is not. Has al qaeda mounted a major attack on the land in the u. S. . Gen. Nicholson no, sir. Will you the folks at those facts are not lost to us in washington to mark gen. . Icholson gen. Nicholson yes sir. Makes in position to do nefarious things Going Forward. I am concerned that in afghanistan, after years of being out, they are back in there and i am concerned that it looks like in the north and northeast of afghanistan, it seems like russia is coordinating with and helping isis in the north and northeast. Is that a fact, sir . Gen. Nicholson sir, we do not have those facts. We know that they are adversely minimizing the taliban. Anything more than that, sir, i would ask to discuss in another forum. Recently in december, you condemned the malign influence that external actors that istan, russia, and it ran iran. Do you believe rush intent has anything to do with isis . Gen. Nicholson no, i think it is to undermine the United States and nato. Hike of, one of the greatest tactical challenges for the Afghan Security services is extremely limited. I know a lot of the pilots are a29. Trained on the gen. Nicholson the a 29 was first introduced in april. We have grown our pool of pilots to 20. Get eight aircraft there. These aircraft have been in excess of 800 missions. It has been a significant effort. The system that does this is more than pilots and aircraft. Includes the aircraft maintainers back at the base. We have seen progress in all of these areas. It is been impressive for a young capability. You talk about working below the core level. Two areas you say you are doing this in aviation and special forces. Learned the 215 core. Did you limit you have to be below the core level in aviation . Gen. Nicholson absolutely. The authorities the authority i was granted necessitate that i push advisers below the core level if we were to accurately the use of these assets below the core level. What are the three to five things you would advise this new president to consider that you need to be successful against the counterterrorism fight that you have, defeating al qaeda, and finding some solution with the taliban in afghanistan . Gen. Nicholson sir, thank you. First, the viability of an enduring antiterrorism platform is critically important for National Security in preventing an attack on the homeland. There are objectives we would seek Going Forward. The destruction of al qaeda, the destruction of Islamic State, and helping afghans to extend control over the population to at least 80 Going Forward. Working closing with the pakistanis to eliminate or reduce sanctuary for the teleban and other groups. And working with the afghans and the International Community for an afghanled reconciliation process. If we could get these elements into our plan Going Forward, we can bring this fight to a successful conclusion Going Forward that enables us to continue our efforts, but in an environment of a prosperous, stable afghanistan. Sir, thank you for your professionalism and leadership. Gen. Nicholson thank you, sir. Sen. Ernst thank you, general. Most important, please to all of the men and women how much we respect the choices they have made to protect our country. Recording to be a broken again and get to contracting. I had a chance to review the cigar report. Even though we have made progress, and i knowledge we have made progress, there are still some problems that we have to talk about. We are talking about 100 billion to contractors in afghanistan in the last eight years. This is real money. This is a significant amount of taxpayer resources that are going to contractors. Problems thates are cited over and over and over again. That wehose problems have corrected and i want to make sure on the record that you could confirm that. We put in a provision last year that you cannot spend money billing anything in areas of the country where we cannot get oversight personnel there to check and see the progress, and to make sure the money is not walking away. Are you confident now that there is no project that is ongoing with contractor money right now in afghanistan paid for by u. S. Dollars where our oversight personnel cannot get to it to look at it . Gen. Nicholson i believe so, maam, but i would like to verify that and give you a more thorough answer. That would be terrific because what we learned is there were areas we were paying contractors, many of which are local contractors in areas that we can get to because of security concerns. That is where the money was disappearing. And things were not getting built. At the money was being wasted. And money was being wasted. Projects construction did not meet contract requirements and specifications. Apparently, the dod has knowledge has acknowledged that u. S. Forces lacked capacity to administer, oversee coming close contracts to ensure proper performance. I know it is hard. Do you think you have adequate forces to do the oversight necessary on this contract work that is so incredibly expensive . Gen. Nicholson the limitation on forces limit our ability to do oversight. There is no question about it. We are trying and we have to substitute contractors for Service Members to do functions that normally Service Members would do. I offered a couple of examples earlier for example, on aviation maintenance, we bring in contract mechanics to maintain our helicopters because we leave their mechanics back in the states because of forced limitations. I knowledge, i have the authority i acknowledge the limitations puts us in a situation that we try to optimize, and having uniform Service Members doing only what they can do substitute in contractors wherever possible to maximize our effort. , frome got to a point now a commander standpoint, would rather see soldiers doing what soldiers are trained to do, and thats been the money on contractors, which is more expensive. Inevitably. And it is one of these things and we do this a lot and government under the guise of saying we are going to limit some of the employees we have, but that doesnt change the requirements of a federal agency and does not change the mission of our military. So, we just bring up contractors without adequate scoping, without adequate work, oversight , paying contractors bonuses when they have done a terrible job. I did not want this moment telling you that we are paying close attention on the contract side. I look for to working with you on that. Corruption is a big part of this. Do you believe that we have made any progress overall in afghanistan on the corruption front . Gen. Nicholson i think we have made progress recently. The Development Phase of the anticorruption effort he is doing . Gen. Nicholson the Anticorruption Justice Center with the support of the community, we had our first trial of a two star general. He was convicted of 14 years in jail for engagement in bribery concerning a fuel contract. We have pulled back fuel because ofr the corruption that point to them that was linked to them. Money inlding back the terms of pay accounts until they can verify they have the people. These efforts alone feel contracts totaled 200 million. By putting them under control of our officials, we can reduce the space for corruption. The same with the pay. I should point out that ani initiated a council, and he personally oversees the awarding of the large government contracts and a committee that is transparent. We attended. Our own officials attended. They work through a rigorous process to reduce the space for corruption. So, back to your original question. I do think under the president possibly to, we can do this. Record, if we could get the relative strength in numbers of the 20 different terrorist groups you say are on the ground in afghanistan, that would be good to get it in perspective where the numbers are in any help you can get us. Gen. Nicholson we got that. Thank you, mr. Chairman. General nicholson, thank you for your leadership and for your concise answers to tough questions. Before has been asked and you have answered, we will go to the record. Sorry i was not able to be here. With the authorization for the use of military force in the president ial policy guidelines. When i was in afghanistan come it looked like there were kinks to years ago in terms of you being able to take the fight to people that maybe should be targeted. Do you feel like we are getting to a point where you have all of the authorizations under president ial policy guidelines, which i assume are being modified for being assessed . And can you talk a little bit about the need to revisit authorization for the use of military force in the area you are concerned with . Will be the benefit or disadvantage . Gen. Nicholson i feel i have the authorities necessary to strike in the areas we need to. Will be an issue that we will discuss with my chain of command Going Forward. And as we discussed earlier, we are engaged in those conversations right now about the authorities Going Forward. I would ask your indulgence to let those conversations play out. The ones that were granted in june were instrumental to our success this year. With those authorities, i can strike in the areas where we need to, when we need to. If i could come back to you senator in another forum on the specifics, i would request that. Thank you. I think those were some of the authorities we were talking about when we visited afghanistan two years ago. Glad to see they have come along. You mentioned earlier the investment by other nations and the economic other nations on the economic site in afghanistan. Two years ago, we were talking about a potential cliff you are running over in 2017 because of funding to get infrastructure in place to get rid of corruption and to continue to build. We haveeel like overcome that threat, and that we got the adequate amount of nonmilitary funding flowing in from our partner nations to keep the economic revival going . Senator,olson yes, they should we had the brussels Donor Conference in october. The Afghan Government made an effort in engaging with all the donors. Countries there and they expressed an intent to commit 1. 2 billion. This was a significant Success Story for afghanistan. Warsawild upon the conference in which the alliance committed to four more years. I believe there was a connection between this and the confident demonstrated in the Afghan Security forces at the warsaw summit to commit to four more years provided assurance to the donors that there would be a more secure environment Going Forward. Our job is to work with the afghans to improve the security situation and break the stalemate, and get to a place where they can apply these development dollars, most effectively. Questions that senator mccaskill was saying that i got in on the tail end are we on a positive end in terms of corruption in afghanistan . Gen. Nicholson positive, but we have a lot of work left to do. Thank you, and thank you, mr. Chair. Thank you, mr. Chairman. And thanks for having this hearing, which is so important. General nicholson, i join my colleagues in thanking you for your service. Everyone who works with you and under you, thank them as well. You mentioned in your testimony, and i am quoting of the 98 u. S. Designated terrorist organizations globally, 20 are afghanistan for last pakistan region . This constitutes the highest terror groups in any place in the world. Probably getting the kind of cooperation we need from the pakistani . Gen. Nicholson senator, we like to see greater cooperation. Were significantly in your view has it been deficient . Gen. Nicholson with respect to the connie network and taliban, inside pakistan. And that would be the Northern Area of pakistan . Gen. Nicholson it would be the tribal areas of pakistan, north and west, primarily the western areas. Where taliban leadership resides. And in other areas. Usthat area has bedeviled for years, correct . Gen. Nicholson correct. Are we doing enough to bring pressure on the pakistani government to be more aggressive and active because my understanding is that the materials for ieds, a lot of the other kind of support are adversaries in afghanistan continue to come from that area of pakistan . Gen. Nicholson that is correct, senator. With respect we need to do a whole we need to do a holistic review with our relationship with pakistan. There are elements of common interest we can work together. But you are absolutely right. It is been frustrating. Nicholson,general you are absolutely right in that statement. But i have heard that to view from commanders in your position repeal the over the years as my colleagues. What will and can be done to change it . Gen. Nicholson sir, i think this is a key discussion with my chain of command and what the secretary of defense, with the white house i think this needs to be at the top of the agenda when it comes to the future of our policy in the region. I know my chain of command is ready to have a conversation. I would ask your indulgence to not get in front of my can of command on this particular topic. I know this is at the very top of our list when it comes to the future in the region. You cannot bee ahead of your chain of command, but you are an integral part of that chain of command. Partse of the most able of that chain. And so, i hope you will convey the urgency of that message. I think that a lot of americans are frustrated at the border nation, which purports to be allied on so many areas and resources,ource of and fighters, and others who commit the kinds of acts you withed just this morning the serious wounds suffered by one of our special operators. Gen. Nicholson yes, sir, it is the number one factor that can for a positive result in afghanistan. It is critical. You mentioned a range of actions that i think this is exactly what we need to consider. I appreciate that and thank you for your frankness to the committee. About want to ask briefly one other area concerning helicopters. As you know, because you responded to our letter, senator ernest and i wrote to the department of defense asking that it developed a plan to told an american alternative the 17, which it has done. Blackhawks as part of the fy17 to support overseas contingency operations. Briefly on thent status of that effort . Gen. Nicholson sir, i am told that this will be a part of the next supplemental submission that will be made. It has not been completed yet, but it is an issue i have raised because it is critical and there is an urgency to getting this program going. Take from the time the funding is approved to the aircraft arrival on the battlefield over 20 months. And so we want to give these aircraft in these crews into the fight as soon as possible. It will be critical to the offensive effort to regain the territory in the population that the government seeks to regain to break the stalemate. Is why this particular aviation issue is so critical. Going forward so critical Going Forward. The use of u. S. Training deepens a relationship with the afghans and the United States, and of course, much of that funding goes back into the u. S. Economy. My time has expired, but i appreciate your efforts in that regard and i would like to stay current on them. Thank you very much. Gen. Nicholson we will keep you updated, senator. Thank you very much. You and all ofr those under your command. I cannot thank you and those serving in afghanistan enough. You mentioned in your testimony that you see a change in russian behavior for the worst. Is that correct . Gen. Nicholson yes, senator. What other goals changing . Gen. Nicholson the goal is to undermine United States and nato. Ok. I agree with you. What about iran . Gen. Nicholson it is a little more complex. There are mutual interest that afghanistan and iran share. Water, rethink this offers an economic alternative. Do they have backyard issue . Gen. Nicholson yes, sir. And they have a goal of stopping democracy . Gen. Nicholson their actions are undermining the Afghan Government comes similar to what the russians are doing. Not want toanians democracy on their border . Gen. Nicholson sir, i think it would be a threat to them. Do you think the afghans want democracy . Gen. Nicholson yes, senator. They wanted representative form of government. A have a form of social government that has existed for centuries. If they areocracy practicing is relatively new to the country . Gen. Nicholson yes, senator. And it is hard . Yes, and it is hard. Yes, and it is hard here. Can we put in a non . Can we win . Gen. Nicholson yes we can. Please describe what winning would look like. Is to have america to get a get a hold of terrorist agencies in the region . Gen. Nicholson yes, sir. They call this their foundational partnership. Sir, it would involve the destruction of al qaeda and afghanistan. The destruction of Islamic State and afghanistan and helping the Afghan Government to expand its control over the population. Is it fair to say that most afghans want the same thing when it comes al qaeda . Gen. Nicholson yes, sir. So that is winning for them in winning for us . Gen. Nicholson yes, sir. The taliban is who is connected to al qaeda. Saysf the Afghan People that the returns afghan rule would be bad for the company. For the country. The organization they are different our enemy in afghanistan. To say that the taliban aided bin laden . Gen. Nicholson absolutely. Would you have more authority when it comes to engaging them . Gen. Nicholson sir, if i was granted those authorities at administration, i would. Would you use them . Gen. Nicholson yes. With that change the momentum on the battlefield . Gen. Nicholson it would. What does losing look like . Gen. Nicholson it would be an attack emanating from this region. Is it possible if we leave . Gen. Nicholson absolutely. Is it likely if we leave . Gen. Nicholson yes, sir. Just a matter of time. When it comes to staying, do you have the ability to ask for more troops that go more troops . Gen. Nicholson i think the conversation is open for that. My initial impression in these conversations are ongoing we are open to a discussion of an objective space approach rather than an artificial number . Gen. Nicholson yes, sir. The best thing to happen for our success in afghanistan is to have troop levels against the objectives . Gen. Nicholson the objectives of conditions on the ground. And the objective is and the objective is to win . Gen. Nicholson yes, sir. And the objective is to keep afghan stable on the trajectory of a rule of law, democratic nation. Gen. Nicholson yes, sir. Do you believe you can do that with less than 50,000 troops . Yes, sir. Do you believe you can do that with 30,000 troops . Gen. Nicholson thats a conversation i need to have with my chain of command, but yes. Is it fair to say that success in afghanistan would be judged not based on the day we believe but what we leave blind . Gen. Nicholson yes, sir. And you think we can leave behind a stable afghanistan . Gen. Nicholson yes, sir. Thank you. On behalf of chairman mccain, senator nelson. Senator nelson if the russians stated goal is to undermine the influence of the United States, when did this effort start . Gen. Nicholson sir, the with respect to afghanistan, they have not stated that as their goal, they have stated senator nelson i understand, thats your opinion and i agree with you. When did the ovid them cozying up to the taliban start . Gen. Nicholson it started in 2016, within the last year, this has started. It was a gradual progression. Senator nelson is that progression increasing . Gen. Nicholson yes, sir. Senator nelson i think we better let President Trump know that. Gen. Nicholson yes, sir. Senator nelson if russia is cozying up to the taliban and thats a kind word, if they are giving equipment that we have some evidence that the taliban is getting it and other things that we cant mention in this unclassified setting, and the taliban is also associated with qaeda, therefore russia indirectly is helping al qaeda. Gen. Nicholson yes, sir. Senator nelson in afghanistan. Gen. Nicholson the taliban are the medium for many of these other terrorist groups to operate. Because of the convergence of these groups. Your logic is absolutely sound, sir. Senator nelson does that include isis . Gen. Nicholson we dont see the same level of cooperation between the taliban and isis. They are in conflict with one another. But the taliban is not achieving the key effects in reducing isis. Thats coming from the United States and the afghan counterterrorism effort. Senator nelson in response to senator graham, you said, when restate what you said. In your opinion we can leave a stable afghanistan . Gen. Nicholson i think reconciliation would be the goal between the belligerents and afghanistan. This is what the government want a reconciliation with the belligerents. A lier this year there was reconciliation. 20,000 of them are returning to afghanistan to be reintegrated into society. If this goes well, hopefully this would be a catalyst for further reconciliation. Thats the ultimate goal. When i say stability, it means ultimately a political reconciliation. So our octoberive will be to assist the afghans to achieve that. Part of that is military pressure. Approach to ghanis thb has been fight, fracture, talk. We need to keep pressure on them, i articulated ways to do this, through special forces, to increase control. Through diplomatic engagement with pakistanis to increase pressure on that. This would be a whole government approach but the objective would be an eventual reconciliation. This will take some years, i believe. Senator nelson does that reconciliation include the taliban . Gen. Nicholson ideally, the taliban would reconcile and that would remove their support for groups. Senator nelson how does the taliban reconcile with the government of afghanistan when theyre being aided and abetted by russia to work against our efforts . Gen. Nicholson youre exactly right this requires a wholegovernment approach. Senator nelson so you dont see a dynamic between isis and the taliban . Gen. Nicholson theyre ideologically in conflict and then in practical matters, theyre vying for control in certain areas, but i dont see an effective effort by the taliban against isis. Senator nelson but you have to be careful about that in the future because obviously isis, just like al qaeda, would be against our interests, u. S. Interests. Gen. Nicholson absolutely sir. What we have seen is fighters changing allegiances. This is an important point to note. One of the dangers in this area is that fighters would change allegiance, for example, from the Pakistani Taliban and join isis. So the majority of the fighters in isis right now came from the t. T. P. , the Pakistani Taliban, and joined the wanner of i the ban over isis. Senator nelson do you think theres any reason that the russians, other than trying to dermine us, would be wanting to expand their sphere of influence and take back the territory that they got whipped and had to leave afghanistan with their tail between their legs . Gen. Nicholson i think they are concerned that if theres a coalition, a u. S. Presence in afghanistan, that this affects their ability to influence the Central Asian states to the north. I do think this is part of their concern. Senator nelson i agree. Thank you, mr. Chairman. On behalf of chairman mccain, senator. Ze i want to pick up on senator nelsons line of questioning because as you said in your testimony, were seeing russian influence in afghanistan only recently. Senator shaheen earlier, four or five years ago, we were bringing in our supply line through with russias help into afghanistan. So what changed the dynamic there . Nip maam so within the last year is then weve seen this shift to this overt legitimizing of the taliban an thnd and then reports of support provided to the pal ban and others in the north. So i think getting a little bit out of the just purely afghan context, undoubtedly the issues were seeing in iraq and syria, in terms of cooperation with the russians and that effort, perhaps theres some spillover from that. Secondly would be again this concern about central asia and the desire to remain to maintain their influence in central asia. So this narrative of a threat spilling over from afghanistan is touching a nerve with the Central Asian republics because during the antisoviet jihad and what followed, they had this concern. And then in central asia there is a concern about terrorism and i think its fair to say there are legitimate concerns that russia has about the region with respect to counternarcotics because much of the narcs flow from afghanistan into russia and then secondly, the spread of terrorism. Is a concern. But we are dealing with that concern. So theres no acknowledgment that the u. S. Government, the afghans, are working together to contain this terrorist threat. Is there any evidence that the russians are providing money, material fighters to the taliban . Gen. Nicholson we dont have theres some classified reporting that id request to share with you at another venue but we are concerned in general about support and ill leave it at that. Senator shaheen what does this mean for the dynamic between russia and pakistan . Are we seeing additional engagement in pakistan because of whats happening in afghanistan . Gen. Nicholson we are seeing additional engagement, there was recently a Training Exercise conducted in pakistan with Russian Troops and we have again reporting of increased conversations going on in the country about potential support to these groups. Senator shaheen clearly, given Pakistans Nuclear arsenal that should give us all much more reason to be very concerned about whats happening in that region. Gen. Nicholson yes, maam. Senator shaheen i had the opportunity, when we had the confirmation hearing for secretary mattis, to ask him about our special immigrant visa program for iraq and afghanistan, which, as im sure you are aware, has made a huge difference for our men and women serving on the ground. My understanding is that we are oon going to run out of visas, s. I. V. Visas for afghans who are in the pipeline to come to the u. S. Who are being threatened. Can you speak to how important you think that program is and why we should extend it to make sure we address those people who have been so helpful to us . Gen. Nicholson thank you, senator, for your support for that program. I wrote a letter to chairman mccain last year on this program. Were strong supporters of this program because these brave afghans, who have fought alongside us an served alongside us, we believe strongly deserve the opportunity, if they wish, if they so desire, to participate in this program. We do have a backlog and we do have many, many afghans who would like to come to the United States and i know many of these after begans who have come and joined our society, theyre very productive citizens, great contributors, and so i strongly support this program and will continue to do so and offer my help in any way i can. Senator shaheen i appreciate that. Can you also talk about what you think the message would be if we end the program and refuse to allow in anymore people who have helped us . Gen. Nicholson yes, maam, i think this would be the wrong message to send to our afghan partners, just to give one data point on the fighting, the difficulty of the fighting as has been mentioned several times here today. The afghans are willing and want to fight for their country and so in one year, in this period we just had, the last two years, they have suffered almost twice as many casualties as we suffered in the previous 10 years. I just mention that, not to highlight the casualties but as an indicator of the depth of commitment of these afghans to our common cause. They dont want terrorists in their country. They want a peaceful and stable environment for their families. They want to improve the world that they live in for their children. They share many, many objectives with us. So these afghans who have worked alongside us, who have taken great risks, i think deserve this opportunity if they so desire to come to the united tates. Senator shaheen thank you very much. On behalf of chairman mccain, senator kaine. Senator kaine i was back an forthing with the committee, i took your testimony up and read it to our witnesses and i wanted to ask you about it, i know others have asked you. On page 10, russia has overtly lended legitimacy to the the taliban, using the false narrative that only taliban are fighting isilk. Are you ey are seeing coordination of efforts in russia and iran. You dont draw a causal link but i was curious about your thoughts . Gen. Nicholson there may be, but i have not seen it. I think these are two separate issues. Know theres a dialogue a relationship between russia and iran. Russia is selling advanced Weapons Systems to iran. We know theres communication between them. Senator kaine russia and iran are deeply engaged together in the campaign in syria, iran allowed russia to use air bases in iran for the syrian campaign. Gen. Nicholson yes, sir. Senator kaine it seems unlikely they would both be engidging in efforts to bolster or prop up the taliban completely independently of one another, throes theyre probably communicating ose about those efforts. Gen. Nicholson we believe they are communicating about the effort, we believe, and that the effect of their efforts would are undermining the Afghan Government. Senator kaine there was a statement that he could alie russia and use russia as a check against iran. Tell me if you dont feel that you can comment on that, thats a fair answer, but i wonder do you think that thats realistic . That given all the areas where russia and iran are now working to at least promote a similar purpose, including, according to your testimony, in afghanistan, do you think its likely that the u. S. Could peel russia away from its cooperation and coordination with iran . Gen. Nicholson i havent had the chance to discuss that with my chain of command. That havent been something weve looked at as an option. The i look at it from an afghan perspective. I think theres areas of interest iran has with afghanistan. Senator kaine because of being on the border . Gen. Nicholson exactly. I think the afghans are trying to establish a statetostate relationship with iran to deal with these matters of mutual concern. Enator kaine antiopium production . Gen. Nicholson yes, sir. And then what the afghans would seek to reduce is eliminate support to the taliban, lets deal with each other as neighbors. And lets work on these areas of mutual interest. So i think theres potential in the afghaniranian relationship for a more positive outcome than we see with the russian relationship. The russians lack legitimacy in afghanistan because of the soviet jihad. Millions of afghans were killed by russians and russianbacked sforses in afghanistan. Theres a legitimacy question when it comes to russias involvement in afghanistan that is right at the fer front of this conversation with the Afghan People. Senator kaine it shows how antinato russia is that they would engage with elements of the taliban, some of whom were responsible for kicking the soviet union out of afghanistan, that they would troy to bolster the taliban as a check against nato influence in afghanistan. That is a pretty bold statement of how much they hate nato. Gen. Nicholson it is surprise, senator, especially when you consider the talibans involvement in the narcotics trade and the detrimental impact that narcotics from afghanistan are having on russian society. Senator kaine i met with the afghan ambassador to the United States yesterday and we had a good visit. One thing he said to me, i just am curious as to your opinion on this, sometimes you know, our military or intel dont see it the same way as they see it, as theyre describing it he said the thing thats most exciting to after begans is that they have a national identity, a national voice. Theyre discussing tough issues. Some of which are hard to soverb. But theyre discussing the openly and publicly. He painted a pretty positive view of the civil government and relationship between the members of the coalition. Im curious if your view is as positive . Gen. Nicholson yes, senator, we have an extremely positive relationship with the government. We work very closely on the security equities Going Forward. I think that the tough fight they experienced this year and the that threw us together in ways, the use of our authorities our soldiers advidsing and assisting them on the ground the way we did and the way they prevailed, theres nothing like going through a difficult, shared experience to bring you closer. And i think the afghans are convinced of our commitment to them. They saw the International Community at warsaw commit to four more years in afghanistan and the International Donor Community Came together with 15 billion, so i think the Afghan People took those as very reassuring signs, despite the difficulty of the fight, what they saw was strong commitment at the strategic level by the International Community to peace and stability in afghanistan. Senator kaine thank you so much. Mr. Mccain thank you for your testimony, thank you for a very informative exchange youve had with the members here. I think theres one point thats very obvious as we discussed at the beginning is that were not winning and i know that you have been asked by our secretary of defense and others for a strategy to change that equation and i know you havent fleshed all that out but youve been faced with this situation for quite a period of time. We look forward to sharing with you, or you sharing with us, the elements of that strategy and we on both sides obviously are committed to seeing this situation resolved in a more beneficial fashion as we fashion. As we said at the beginning, we have been there many years, theres been a great sacrifice made by afghans and our brave americans and we need a strategy to succeed. And if we can know that strategy, which is being developed, i hope, i can assure you you will receive the bipartisan strong support from members of this committee and the congress. But we need to develop that strategy and we need to know what assets and capabilities and support that the congress can give you. So we thank you for your service, we thank you for your testimony this morning and unfortunately, tragically for you, some of us will be visiting you in kabul. Thank you, general. Gen. Nicholson look forward to your visit, senator. Thank you for the opportunity. Senator mccain really . [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2017] the ninth Circuit Court of appeals has ruled on President Trumps travel ban on refugees and immigrants, voting unanimously to continue blocking the president s order. Usa todays brad heath writes, the opinion cites numerous statements by the president about his intent to implement a muslim ban. President trump has responded with pa tweet reading, see you in court. The security of our nation is at stake. The president s tweet came 22 minutes after the decision was announced. On now to oklahoma where republican governor mary fallin gave her state of the state address earlier this week. [applause]