Joining me is jeff okeefe and sarah clip. I am pleased to have both of them here. Let me begin with you, tell me what happened . Administration, the president and other key leaders were saying they had the votes, and in fact, they did. Was it difficult to pull this off . Absolutely. They did it today by the skin of 13. They did it today by the skin of their teeth. The magic number was to get it over to 16, which they barely did. They call the bow shortly thereafter. This crats voted for they called the vote shortly thereafter. No democrats voted for this. Article conservatives dont think the bill went far enough. But they decided they had to do it on thursday and they did it. It is a significant achievement, whether you are a fan of this president or republicans, or not. There is noted night at the house pulled off many thought they could not do. This is the first major legislative achievement for House Speaker paul ryan, who has been on the job a little over 18 months. Survey, of course, the signature achievements of far for President Trump. The senate remains, if you thought the house was difficult, let me introduce you to the upper chain. [laughter] the senate is going to be a struggle. You already have two republican senators who have come out today and said they do not support this bill. Some of them are very concerned about medicaid. The American Health care apple cut a lot of money from medicaid. We do not know exactly how much. It is probably in the neighborhood of 800 billion, which is a huge concern to the senators in the states that expanded medicaid. Is is a big hit this is a big victory for republicans. Now the senate has to go through the fights that the house already did. This is one victory in an ongoing fight. Now the focus turns to the senate and what they are going to do. Charlie there has been much discussion with the president as to what was in the bill and not in the bill. Give us a sense of the key aspects of that conversation part of the debate over the last three or four days. What is in the bill and what is not in the bill . President suggested this is a bill that protects people with preexisting conditions. He said he wants to sign a bill that protects everybody with preexisting conditions. The problem with those statements are there are actual provisions that are not good for someone who has a presenting condition. One of the ways that the conservative members of the house caucus were brought on board was by letting Insurance Companies in some states seek a waiver, charged the sick people higher premiums. This is really a nonnegotiable for the Freedom Caucus. There wanted to get rid of this will Call Community rating. If this bill that the house passed goes through, if it is signed into law by President Trump, google wants again we will once again have a system where people will have higher premiums. Charlie and sometimes high deductions, too. Yes. Charlie when you look at this bill and who gave up what, who made the toughest compromise . It is more mainstream, moderate republicans who had to go along to get the concessions. These ads write themselves. Democrats are in fantastic political position because now they get to run campaign ads against Republican Senate are going to cut hundreds of billions of dollars from medicaid. If you got cancer, you will have to pay more for your health care. If your mother is sick, you have to pay for your health care, plus your own. All sorts of different kinds of ways they can spin this. We had a Group Interview with nancy pelosi, and she conceded saying it is much easier for us to talk about things and they are going to be taken away from americans as to when you are trying to explain what you are going to do to change a big law that really is becoming a settled issue for many americans, even if they have general concerns with it. I would say it is people who faced difficult reelections next are in the suburbs, certainly in the northeast, surly some for congressional districts and a handful of congressman in california that will face an appeal interesting and challenging time in the next few months explaining what they did, especially if that estimate from the congressional budget office, the nonpartisan counters comes back and demonstrate yet again that tens of mens of people could lose, and this bill could potentially cost billions of dollars to the federal government. Tells a big risk and they took in having this boat not knowing exactly the potential cost of it come and in many cases, nubbers conceding that they did not read the thing. Charlie why did the president feel like he had to do this now instead of going directly to tax reform . Because you need a lot of the savings that republicans helped to generate from health care in. Order to help pay for an figure out tax reform. That is the basic policy answer. But he also knows that if you cannot get health care, it may be impossible to get tax reform, and maybe very difficult to do anything else, and they needed to get to a point where they got a win. And House Republicans said, we can government and come together on something as difficult as this was. It was a big step. Rightfully today, wanted to celebrate that with House Republicans and delayed his trip to new york to see the upstream Prime Minister in order to do so ause today is the only because the only thing because the only big thing they have given him was Supreme Court justice neil gorsuch. They have a working relationship. Have a sense of how the white house and how the house can work together. Depending on how the final healthcare bill will look like, what exactly you would do to save money or to move money around, it would make doing tests are from a policy standpoint as well. Charlie sarah . A step four,ld be but we are seen that health care is becoming this allconsuming task. January, President Trump wanted to sign and Obamacare Repeal bill in his first day of office. It is hard to see a timeline where republicans are both able to finish health care this year and go into tax reform given all of this work. That has to be done the senate that has to be done. When you look at the legislative calendar, it seems hard, but not impossible to achieve both health care and tax reform, two major overhauls in the same year. Charlie, there was a moment at the white house in the rose garden that the president said, maybe we should get rid of paul ryan, no, he is going to stay. The president did not deny that he had thought about it, and did nothing to suggest that he wants ryan to stay put and is happy with the work he has done. Clearly, that relationship has been strained. It wouldve been far worse if this had not happened both for ryan for trump, but more importantly, for their relationship. If they were not able to work together, the Republican Party and their ability to govern would be circe jeopardized. Paul ryan has consistently said ever since obamacare was passed, republicans had said, we got to do something about it. They try to change it in every possible way, including a court challenge. Here it is, finally having a toublican president , not tackle this would be a defining of their own constituency. It wouldve been an existential crisis. He said look, there are people in this chamber who are here because they vow to take this boat. Vote,do not take this their entire political is extends political existence is called into question. They understand that much of their political success in recent years has been to rail against legislation like this. They needed to demonstrate that they tried very hard to get it done. Several one of the interesting dynamics is it seems like no one wants to be blamed for stopping this. You see in the first round of negotiations, the Freedom Caucus was a roadblock to passing the health bill. And it was the moderates who were in the hot seat. It is a most like this Health Care Hot Potato that no one really wants to drop, even if they are not thrilled with the final product. We will see that tournament play out in the senate. Inre are a lot of hurdles the senate towards passing legislation, but one of the things i definitely learned from this Health Process is that nobody at the end of the day wants to be the one with the finger pointed at them, saying you are the one standing in the way of his Campaign Promise we made for seven years. That is going to be a motivating factor in the senate try to pass something. It does not look like the house was able to do this, but we were the place where it all fell apart. Charlie when you look at this bill, which may people have not [laughter] charlie as a point has been made, how where is that that people are asked to vote about something that they do not know what is in the . Sarah it is incredibly rare. This is what happened with the Affordable Care act. Manager theyhe needed to be a score before you vote. It also seems quite risky for the republican members. It has been mostly democrat chastised in chastising republicans for doing this. But we could see millions of people losing coverage. You cannot take back the fact he voted for it. It seems quite the risk republicans are taking decide to vote for a Health Care Bill not knowing who was covered in how much a cost. They can go to their constituents and said, they did we about to repeal and replace obamacare and we did it. We dont know for certain, charlie, that they have. The way that it is written, it is not a wholesale replacement of the Affordable Care act. It is a conservative sweeping rewrite, but elements of the law will still be there. If you wanted to see completely wiped clean and your conservative, you wont the happy. If they go on a week long recess, that is underway, if they get asked by someone at the Grocery Store at a town hall meeting next week, what is really in this thing . And they struggled to answer, even the republican supporters would wonder, was that the best thing to do . But it shows you they were willing to put all of that at risk and still hold a vote because they understood that the consequence of dragging it out even longer and possibly fumbling the ball yet again was worse than taking the boat now starting this process and taking it over to the senate. Greater than 50 50 that the republicans will be able to vote in the house and senate, critical signed by the president . [laughter] aarlie that will be republican active health care . Sarah i think it is an uphill battle, but the desire to have something is very strong. Was about to say, given republicans control the senate, the house, and the white house, it would be hard to say that we were not that we were not able to get this done. And they hold 52 seats. The question will be whether they get at least 51 because there is no democrat who plans to vote with them. It was described to me by democratic aides yesterday, we are sitting on our hands watching republicans deal with this. Charlie ed in sarah, thank you. We will be right back. Stay with us. Ago, three years selfdescribed hipsters created a free Montrell Jackson magazine, which could be developed a reputation for bold, provocative reporting. It was called vice. It is valued at nearly 5 billion. Along the way, the company has issued many of the trappings of traditional news media and immersive journalism pared immersive journalism. It is then called hard news with an edge. News tonight was launched. Founder and is the a host of their with the documentary series on hbo. And josh is the executive Vice President of news executive producer of vice news tonight. I am pleased to have them both back on this program. In case i didt is not know . We started the magazine and montreal, and then we came down here as the first dot com revolution and then moved to brooklyn and started being a digital company. We were the first to do online video and native advertising and all that good stuff. And then got bigger and bigger and grew internationally. Now we are in 80 countries and a tv networks. Have online. Were mobile. We have online. We have mobile. Charlie it is a Media Company . That at about 5 billion . Last year. [laughter] your show is about hellbent libertarianism . Yeah. I was lucky that i got to spend time with david. I loved him. When he was shooting page one and we butted heads in the making really good friends. Me,member when they called they said if we get chain, will you come to dublin for round two . We said sure. It was a lovefest. Irishum up all these musicians they sent up all these irish musicians and we danced around this crazy castle together. But he was one of the best. He called it right. Nonparadigm,s, nonpolitical. Charlie is it news or entertainment . It is news, but it is entertaining news. To speak of reviews or critiques, the first review of vice news is that New York Times am paraphrasing, but it is hipsters with skinny jeans and tattoos highfiving in war zones. They are not saying this stuff is not greater good news, they are saying we look different from them, and if we look different from them, guess what . That is our audience. Those of the millennial. So you can have the older generation, but we will take the younger generation. And if youre making fun of the way we dress, it is a win. Series you have the hbo , then you decided you wanted to come up with a nightly presentation. It was a combination. He said it was his idea and that it was not a combination. [laughter] richard loves the news that we create for hbo. Loves what we do for hbo and we love being on hbo. It is a great platform for us. And when he came to us and said, we want to do this all the time and we want to do it nightly, and it was a big conundrum not want thed voice of god or hosts, or to look like other news. So we had to reinvent news, which is hard to do. So i got sick of actually being beaten by this guy at all the awards shows every year when he was at bloomberg. We would always be up for best magazine and he would win it. [laughter] so when we wanted someone with a Creative Vision to say, im going to reinvent news, which is hard to do because it has to be recognizable enough to call it news, but different enough so we are not derivative of anything else. Charlie you have been in Time Magazine and really made Bloomberg Businessweek a magazine. You had no trepidation about this because when you were leaving, and tons of people wanted you to come. Why was is right for you . It was a combination of things. I like solving problems in the naughtier the problem, the more interested i am. But what i learned over the years and i have been blessed with having good patrons, is that you need support because you are not going to get it right the first time out. When you are taking on a big media problem, like how you get people to watch something that has not changed in 60 years, on the one hand, there was shane was a record of being the right kind of media rogue and saying were going to do it we will figure it out. And it was expressing the kind of commitment that you need and the insistence on quality. I felt safe because jumping into the most competitive landscape, delivering news over the air, is not a safe thing, but i like for all the things i was interested in, you could be smart, get permission to experiment, and that is a dream. That is what you want to be able to do. Charlie what are the elements of the nightly show . Josh when shane and i first spoke of this and i first set this to him and richard, i said, nobody needs this, right . The media has changed so much. If you are an engaged news consumer, you are getting it all day on your phone, over the radio, watching tv. Nobody needs it to just tell you what happened. What happened is pretty obvious. If you are going to do this, you have to make people want it by seducing them. You have to give them something a little familiar. We are unconventional in many, many ways. You watch a show, youre going to hear a lot about what happened in the world today and you understand it better. That is it losing value proposition, but from there, we looked at what conventional news delivered. We saw that it is the only news product where it is on at the same time. It has the same format, which is one person behind a desk. Oftentimes, they are doing the same kinds of stories. Lets make the thing we want to make. The visual inspiration in some ways was saturday night live on the one hand, sesame street on the other. Because he want to be funny or childish, but both of those things knows what their audience is. You go to saturday not you go you gorday night live to saturday night live telephony go to sesame street educate your kids. No matter what the problem there are trying to solve, they have moves. Live does it with shorts, commercial spoofs, they have ways to package all of those ideas. Sesame street is sometimes an ethical dilemma and the characters involved. The first to talk about was having moods. As good as we are at immersive journalism, we need more than that. We need data that moves on screen. When the animation. One of the reasons people have fallen out of phase tv news faith with tv news is that if you do not have footage, you do not have a story. Charlie that is interesting you say that. It. Ll at fox to they are rich summer between up to 5 Million Viewers a night they all reach up to 5 Million Viewers a night. We had the youngest audience according to nielsen of any new show on the cable networks. There is some consistency, obviously. 12 and 13 . [laughter] josh im sure they would be thrilled if it was. Charlie what is the personality . Not a anger or a voiceover it is not an anchor or a voiceover. Audience is tracking stores outside of your news program in bringing context to it. They are going to put up with some longer form storytelling. We do packages that are sometimes anywhere from four to 12 minutes. I think if you look at the hbo is, then you say ok, in 30 million homes. The networks are in full distribution. B, if you look at some of the top new shows that are 200,000, 300,000 the fact were doing 500,000 off the bat and were the number one digital for hbo is fantastic. If you combine the nightly and the weekly, we are doing somewhere north of 5 million ourselves. Now it is video on demand. The numbers are very similar. Charlie what is the difference between what you are doing and what he is doing . He does all the work and he will me out to lunch. [laughter] i work on some of the longer tale stuff and more interviews. I like to get into the field and should, but i dont have a lot of time. You are an executive as well as being onair. The weekly is my baby, but josh is on weekly and on specials and i am a nightly. Charlie when is that show on, vice . S. Friday nights charlie take a look at this clip featuring you reporting from the north ceiling on the cause of Climate Change. Here it is. Would just landed here in the the biggestne of platforms in the world. We are talking to a company who has admitted Climate Change is real and supported the gop protocol they support of the protocol. Oilre going to see how big and gas can do something to reduce emissions. Charlie you see what i see there is reporting, and i see a lot of video, well done. And i hear a lot of music. [laughter] that story is actually about there is a lawsuit against exxon that is being put forth by number of attorneys in america same that they knew about spent theynge, yet developed to say that it wasnt. A lot of the same scientist that did research into tobacco did the same for big oil. We were talking to a lot of lawyers about the lawsuit, which is a great tv. Iswe went and said norway interesting because they are progressive government, yet, they are the biggest oil and natural Gas Producers saying yes, Climate Change is happening because of oil and gas and we have to do something about that come so we are doing carbon capture. All of those rigs are actually energy coming from hydro. Do have an oil company tell the truth was fantastic. And they on these platforms. Back in the 1980s, the elevated the platforms eight to 12 feet. We had to get them insured for many they were raising everything by eight feet and now it comes about that that is the level of Sea Level Rise and so it was sort of a gotcha moment. Charlie you shoot and broadcast the same night . Yes. Charlie do you have to do that or can you package stuff and decide . We have longer lead stuff we invest a bunch of time in. On the show last week we did a piece we started shooting really in december about Gang Violence in chicago. Takes a long time. But we are oftentimes really just cutting in the control room and we go live two or three nights a week meaning we feed live to hbo and what youre seeing has just been dispatched. Were trying to strike this balance. We need to use that time to get as much up to date stuff into the show. Were going to do it. We also know that like planning, preparation, longterm story telling is our hallmark. Were blending those two things. Charlie you said somewhere story selection is about asking whether we can add value. We dont just want to do another story then another. Yeah. Look, i am very cognizant as an avid news consumer. Im tracking a lot of stuff all day. If youre just going to tell somebody something, and i can find that information out in a bunch of different places, you havent distinguished yourself at all. One the ways this has come up for us is the election of donald trump has been like a volcano and there is lava everywhere. A lot of times thats trumps tweets, its other things. We i think for the first week or so like a lot of newsrooms, we were just tearing up lineups all day long. There is so much stuff going on. I think what we discovered was that we were, for that period, really doing things that were not as value added as we ought to be doing. We decided to step back. If people already know he tweeted the media is the enemy to people, what is the point of adding more to that outrage . What can we actually do with our 30 minutes a night that is going to distinguish us . Were really kind of protecting that time. If we overlap with somebody else, we better overlap for a good reason. We better have Something Different and additive. There are so many choices. Were new. We look different. Use that. Charlie this is for both of you. Whats the profile of the people who watch your show or theyre all your shows. Shane yeah. Young, affluent, diverse. Charlie all that. But have they been news watchers . Have they been news watchers or are they people simply turned off by news because they were tired of it and thought it was boring and didnt believe in Appointment Television or anything like that . Shane we have both. Josh a little from klum a and a little from column b. We make this nightly show, slave away, get it to 7 30, push it out, and one of the first things we heard from hbo is a lot of people Binge Watching and would sabre up a couple episodes and bin ch watch it which is interesting behavior for a news show. Not one weve heard of before. Charlie people all the time come up to me and say i devote my saturday mornings to watching your shows. I take five hours and go through it and what i like, ill watch, and what i dont, you know, i skip right through it. Josh it gives you more liberty because it allows you the extra day of consideration to do something you might not have been able to do if youre just responding to deadlines. It is interesting our users want us in the present tense. They are not expecting us to tell them the future. They dont necessarily demand that everything we do be up to date provided we keep adding value to it. Shane on the audience, when you talk about millennials, 18 to 34, 18 is much different than 34. So we have people who have been disenfranchised by main stream media and we have people who charlie disenfranchised by main stream media meaning what . Shane they dont feel it speaks to them or sl have been scandals. So basically theyre saying im going to these guys over here. Then we have other, younger kids who have come up because their older brothers or sisters or whoever were watching vice they sort of have been reared on vice news so were their goto on the younger edge of it. Then there are people who compare us to all the other sort of main stream media and say they do stuff thats not on the news cycle or they go behind it. Charlie you know, during, when john stewart was at the helm for the daily show everybody was saying, this is not really good. That is a comedy show, not a news show, and john would be first to tell you that. It was about satire but at the same time the story you always heard was is it good or bad that so many young people, this is the only way they get news. They watch the daily show. Josh i think its good. Shane i think its good because theyre getting news. Charlie then johns show, news as much as josh well, issues. Shane he was talking about issues. He was popularizing it. Josh you also cant enjoy it unless you know the news. That is the thing about that critique. Charlie that is a good point. Josh otherwise all the references pass you. So that was a kind of like, i believe an under estimation of that audience in the same way i think our audience is a little bit under estimated, too. You cant enjoy a 12minute piece about Gang Violence in chicago unless you come to it prepared. And have a little bit of a knowledge. Charlie i think you said somewhere, too, vice doesnt assume that young people dont care about news. They assume that they do. Its presented to them in a way that is part of who they are nd their own sort of lifestyle d. N. A. Experiences. Josh one of the things in Business News where i was for six years, that you sort of forget, is people actually want to feel something when they watch the news. You know, you mentioned the music under shanes piece. One of the things that one the things i have learned in part from shane and from spike jones and others is that people dont mind feeling something while theyre learning something. If you can show them a great character, move them, thats okay. I think a lot of our audience comes, they may not be expecting it but i think that is the reward if theyre careful watchers that they met someone they can remember and attach to that issue. Charlie where is it going . What is your trajectory . Shane for news or the company . Charlie both. Start with the company. Shane well, we started when i first came to talk to you. We were sort of 110. Then we were 14. Now were 11, the largest new Media Company in the world. We want to take the new out and be the largest Media Company. Charlie i heard everybody was running out to brooklyn. I thought i better find out whats going on. I went out there. Shane yeah. Well, everything is going on out there. Thats the hub. Charlie okay. So the trajectory is what, though . For the company. Shane for the company, show, for the next two years its boring. We go into a country, we launch the tv network. We push all that into mobile. We launch our studios. Then we go to the next country. Its just bang, bang, bang, launching all of our platforms in 80 countries. The big question isnt what we do over the next two years, which is just expand, expand, expand, it is what do we do after that . Because you have vice on hbo. You have, you know, vice on sky. You have vice on times india. At some point you have to go direct to consumer. And i think that is where everything is going. Charlie when . Shane well now, i think if you charlie when will it be predominant . Shane i think air seeing it beginning. Netflix. Obviously the success there, success with amazon. Now apple is signaling theyre going to enter the fray. Hulu. So its going to be and then as thats happening youre having skinny bundles and everything going to spoke so what is going to happen is youre going to have, lets say, 30 things that you pay for and some of them will be over the top and some will be old school tv but its happening today. The fact that at t is buying time warner is because of that. Because that is what they have to drive data which is video. Charlie good luck. Josh thank you. Great to see you. Charlie back in a moment. Stay with us. Ive spent my life planting a sizesix, nonslip shoe into that door. On this side, i want my customers to relax and enjoy themselves. But these days its phones before forks. They want wifi out here. But behind that door, i need a private connection for my business. Wifi pro from comcast business. Public wifi for your customers. Private wifi for your business. Strong and secure. Good for a door. And a network. Comcast business. Built for security. Built for business. Ways wins. Especially in my business. With slow internet from the phone company, you cant keep up. Youre stuck, watching spinning wheels and progress bars until someone else scoops your story. Switch to comcast business. With highspeed internet up to 10 gigabits per second. You wouldnt pick a slow race car. Then why settle for slow internet . Comcast business. Built for speed. Built for business. Charlie in 2002 tab that soren began photographing a group of Minor League Draft picks for the oakland as. For the next years Tabitha Soren captured the lives of players working to achieve their dreams of playing in the big show and the ones that never made it. The photos and the stories behind them are captured in her new book. It is called fantasy life baseball and the american dream. She also has a new project called surface tension opening this month in san francisco. I am pleased to have her back at this table. Welcome, welcome. Tabitha thank you. Charlie where have you been . Tabitha well, i have been following some baseball players, but in that 15 years i also had three children, got married, and i sort of disappeared from television. Charlie your husband occasionally stops by to tell us about his latest magnus opus. Tabitha true. Thats right. So i havent always been a baseball fan. But when my husband Michael Lewis wrote money ball after the reporting was done he still really wanted to continue to hang out with billy bean so he dragged me to spring training in 2003. You know how you make those compromises in relationships, and when i got there i was really happy that i went, because i met 21 guys from the 2002 draft class at their very first spring training and i felt as an artist, how often do you get to meet a whole group of people embarking on the exact same journey at the exact same time . And their faces were so full of hopefulness and purpose that i had a hard time figuring out, you know, how fast to get started. When i met these players i actually assumed they were just on their way to the major leagues. That it was inevitable that they would get there, and i had to learn through hanging out with them for a long period of time that, really, only 6 of them get there. And i actually figured out eventually i would i assumed i would fall in love with baseball like all of the fanatics in the stands. And it never really happened. But what the project turned into was much more about resilience and striving and what baseball says about american culture, because these guys know only 6 of them get there, but theyre pushing, pushing, pushing anyway. And i felt like its not just professional athletes who are driving themselves at that speed and with that endurance and risking injuries and leaving college. I feel like a lot of americans push themselves that hard. Charlie these photographs are linked by stories. Tabitha thats right. We are both from the bay area and he is a very generous soul as im sure you must know. So when he found out i was doing this, he asked if he could help. I said, why dont you write one of those art essays at the beginning of the art book . He said, tabitha, nobody reads those stupid things. I dont want to write something nobody is going to read. So he wrote a short story instead, which i never would have asked dave eggers to write a short story for me, but he did. He is incredibly prolific. I feel very lucky. Charlie theres a movie, is it the circle . Tabitha yes. Cant keep up with him. His wife is no slouch either. Charlie lets talk about the pictures then come back and find out whatever happened to you. Tabitha im still here. Charlie yes you are. Lets look at the first one. Tell me what the photographer saw here. Tabitha so that is the stockton ports dugout in stockton, california. Theyre a Minor League Affiliate of the oakland as. I felt like that picture encapsulated sort of the daily routine, the groundhog day like grind of people being bored, ther people being upset. Helped rture publishing me take 15 years of work and pare it down into this visual, alternate reality of the long us rides, cramped motel rooms, injuries, friendships. Charlie all built on a hope. Tabitha well, you have to believe youre going to make it or you wont. We cant all be derek jeter. I think they know that logically at some point, but if you dont believe youre going to be, if you dont believe youre the person who is going to win the game, get the oscar, go from mail room to board room, as an american were really wrapped up in what i think is a slightly false premise, that if you have a dream and you work hard, success is within anyones reach. I think thats not logical. Most people know its not logical. In this case and in a lot of cases where youre trying to be the exception, youre trying to be number one, its the dream that matters. Charlie lets look at the second picture. Tabitha the picture on the left is ben fritz in a pool during spring training. It is very hot as you know, so they would cool off in the pool. The reason i like it is thats what you see on the surface, but what it means to me is that you can take the personal and go universal with this. We are all trying to stay afloat. I think that you cant tell whether hes sinking or whether hes floating. Looks like an under water super hero. He is a guy who showed up at spring training. Everyone assumed he was going to make it. He showed up injured. He had surgery. He got another injury. He kept going and pushing and pushing and i just feel like thats what we all do. We learn resilience that way. Thats derek jeter at his last home game. Charlie number two. Yes. Tabitha so he is the exception to the rule. Charlie because of supreme talent or because of Something Else . Tabitha i think all of it. I think lack of injuries. I mean, injuries play a huge part in derailing these people. Charlie okay. Look at the next slide. Tabitha this is clinton iowa. And its so hot there that they have showers attached to the outside. So probably most of the photographers were inside the stadium taking pictures of the game and i probably got bored and wandered outside and i caught this young man, who probably plays Little League and probably idolizes the people on the field, taking a break. Charlie what am i looking at . Tabitha this is oakland coliseum. They have an annual night where they not only float fireworks but let all fans down on field. This is the case where i feel like art is really an antidote to the busy, over scheduled lives we all lead. In this case i wasnt interested in the fireworks. I was interested in what happened after, just like the name that these guys are making for themselves within baseball is less interesting to me than how they rebuild their identity afterwards. Charlie they call it the night on the green. Tabitha yep. Charlie this is rain. Tabitha it was a torrential downpour when i arrived to shoot one of my players who was now in the independent league, which is basically hed been released. And it was so stormy outside. I didnt feel safe carrying my equipment. So i stayed in the car and my breath fogged up the window. Charlie this is from surface tension. Tell me what surface tension is. Tabitha so the last picture we saw is a harbinger of this next project. I like it so much because the aesthetics from the stadium shot in the rain really relates to this new work. Im taking letting people use my ipad and im using the ipad and i let the dirt and grime and fingerprints build up and then i go into the history and grab a link that i have looked at and pull it up and then i shoot it with an 8 x 10 view camera, one of those very old cameras that you put the black hood over you so that the negative is the is this thick. Im using an analog process to shoot a digital project. Its something that i think speaks to the struggle of forces within our heads, while were trying to deal with email and texts and various screens in our lives, i feel Like Technology has created a lot of tension and distraction in our heads. And this visually gets at that. Charlie when did you decide you wanted to be a photographer . Tabitha well, i have always taken pictures. My dad was in the military, so i took pictures all the time as sort of a memory bank. They were not interesting pictures. It was a catalog basically. My bed, the rug, my desk, outside of the house. We moved so often that i would forget. And once i got very successful in television, i felt like the work i was doing was getting more and more main stream. The higher i rose, the more watered down it got, and the less agency i had over the creative process. So for me, art was the solution to that. I feel like i can get to a truth in the work, but its less of a who, what, when, where, and why, and more of an emotional truth. There is more room for subtle and nuance, which is what i was looking for. Its hard to cram that into a threeminute news segment. Charlie you couldnt have the creative thrill that you have now . Tabitha it wasnt quite as focused as that, but, yes. Eventually. I mean shall the other thing is that ive got kind of a dark side. Nobody ever tells me to smile in the art world. So if i want to explore panic and dread and anxiety and the conflict of mental turbulence i feel in managing all my devices, then, you know, theyre interested. Charlie do you miss it at all . Tabitha no, not really. The only thing i miss is sort of being at the center of politics or current events. But i think that charlie that is the point of it all. Tabitha well, but there is a lot of other work you have to do in addition. I did tons of stories that werent that important. Because it was my job. Its nice to be able to explore things that occurred in a way thats never been done. So these images are very much talking about how the world is getting more visual than verbal and as a very verbal person i think its interesting that, you know, l. O. L. Is a funny kind of laugh and my daughter sent me a jpeg air kiss to say good night. Shea didnt even think to call me. Thats, you know, obviously a funny kind of kiss, but i think that the we are substituting a lot of intimacy with these devices. I dont think we know what effect theyre having on us. I can think of a ton of Great Things Technology affords me as an artist and as a journalist and the amount of research and the history you have access to, g. P. S. , everything. But i dont think that we are very good at sort of anticipating the effect of technology on us even as. Charlie in terms of robbing us of some kind of intimacy and personal communication . Just coming together as human beings . Tabitha there is certainly that, but in addition, i think that there is a we dont anticipate the effect its going to have on us even if it incarnates our wishes and our pathology. Its not just screens. Can you think of anything more pathological than Nuclear Weapons . That is a technology, too. We didnt really anticipate the problems that would occur with building Something Like that. Charlie one of the interesting things about technology is that its not just in the hands of good people. Its in the hands of bad people, too. Tabitha sure. So i would also say that so you have this grind, this residue. You have this grime, this residue. When we space out on your computer, how many times have you been managing a bunch of different windows and your phone and then its time to go. Whatever the deadline is. And you have no idea what youve been doing the last three hours. Time has disappeared. These fingerprints and grime are sort of a map of what youve been up to. I love the idea that photography can show you what would otherwise be invisible. Charlie thats julian assange, right . Tabitha yes. Charlie thats come from a video of him . Tabitha yeah. I froze a video of him walking into a ted talk or something. So he, basically any time you have him in your work, you are dealing with issues of privacy and surveillance and i think that i i needed to have each one of the pictures connect to some aspect of the internet that we all deal with and, certainly, he belongs in there. Charlie the next one is your daughter sending a virtual good night kiss. This is what you were referring to, right . Tabitha thats right. Charlie she didnt call you up and say, mom i love you, just want to say good night. She just sent you this. Tabitha thats right. So the digital substrate under the analog fingerprints is very obvious because the negative is so large. And i do think the world is becoming more visual than verbal. She trans acts most of her social relationships just by sending manipulated pictures back and forth. Very rarely do they have a phone call or a text. Charlie what do you think its doing to her . Tabitha i sound too old if i answer that question im afraid. Charlie i want to know. Tabitha i feel like there is a lack of social development that happens by being able to handle some of the awkward moments that a facetoface encounter requires. Charlie how old is your daughter . Tabitha this one is 15. I have two. Charlie both daughters. How many children do you have . Tabitha i have three children. Charlie michael is crazy for baseball. Tabitha yes. Charlie and he coaches Little League. Tabitha thats right. Charlie and hes obsessed by that, too. Tabitha yeah. They make art with me. A lot of these fingerprints are my 10yearold son playing video games. His hands are fantastic, because they sweat so they leave these heavy duty drifts and easy things to focus on. Charlie all right. Next slide. Tabitha one of the things im trying to get the project to address is us confusing the perfection of these devices with perfection of ourselves. I feel like the apple designers or any designer has made this screen to be perfectly minimal. Its shiny. Its totally smooth. Its meant to resist oil. I am reminding viewers with all of these markings, with our harriness and saliva and our oil that, you know, our humanity is very messy. And i dont think we should feel physically inferior or i dont think we should deny that part of ourselves even as were dealing with all of this technology. Its kind of beautiful in the end. Charlie fantasy life was published april 1, right . Tabitha thats right. Charlie and surface tension begins exhibitions tabitha this saturday in san francisco. And then it moves to los angeles in june. Charlie congratulations. Tabitha thank you very much. Charlie great to have you here. Tabitha nice to see you again. Charlie thank you for joining us. See you next time. Welcome to best of bloomberg markets. The major story driving the headlines in the region this week, they plan to stand by even after the reported soaring operating losses and despite the other european partner going into bankruptcy again. Meanwhile the regulator of the Saudi Arabian force makes a play for Foreign Investors bringing its markets more in line with international standards. We spoke with the vice chairman of the Capital Market authority. And the reforms