In check, cant pass legislation, cant keep a speaker, theres got to be a better way. Except it isnt an infomercial and there doesnt seem to be a better way because House Republicans have a Governing Majority so narrow, it is doubtful theres anyone in the gop who can get away with disregarding the most extreme elements of the party. In other words, someone who can pass legislation without being held hostage by the likes of matt gaetz. A budget, which is coming due in a quick 31 working days. There is, of course, one option. A coalition government, led by someone dedicated to working with the middle. Someone who can get votes from both parties, thereby neutering people like matt gaetz. Former speaker Kevin Mccarthy sort of did that with the debt ceiling. Then again over the weekend to pass the 45day Stopgap Budget Measure is coming to the reality of a divided government, which is that there is literally no passable legislation that is not bipartisan. Why does that sound so crazy . Even if Steve Scalise or jim jordan who have both officially announced are able to rise to the speakership, they too will learn that lesson. The hard right may make demands but the hard right cannot pass bills. So what is the Republican Party to do . Because there has got to be a better way. Let us ask one of them, an influential republican lawmaker, who will emerge as a power broker in this drama. Joining us is republican congressman from new york and member of the main street caucus, mike lawler, congressman, thank you so much. I hear you have an opinion about matt gaetz, and that you do think he should be expelled . Oh, i think he should be expelled from the conference, no question. He violated the conference rules by bringing the motion to vacate forward without a majority of the majority. And teamed up with 208 democrats to remove a dually elected House Republican speaker. He undermined the conference, he undermined the institution, and he undermined the country, and he doesnt care. And so to me, i dont really see why we would have him part of our conference Going Forward. Its clear hes not somebody whos willing to work within the conference. And wants to associate himself more with House Democrats to remove republican speakers. So i certainly believe that he should be removed from conference. What about the other seven who voted alongside of him, what do you think of them . I think unfortunately, you know, some of them were useful idiots in this crusade on matt gaetzs part. It was petty. It was personal. And it really, again, undermined the conference and the institution. Look, voters elected a House Republican majority to govern the house, to serve as a check and balance on the reckless spending of the biden administration, 5 trillion in new spending in two years. Totally unsustainable. And they wanted us to to do something about the border. Unfortunately these eight individuals torpedoed the conference, took out our best player on the field, if you will, and created a constitutional crisis. We need to get a new speaker elected. We need to get back to doing the work of the American People, holding this administration accountable, raining in spending. Dealing with our southern border, which in my home state of new york has created an absolute calamity, you have the mayor of new york city saying that the migrant crisis is destroying new york city. The governor saying theres no more room at the inn. We need to slow down the influx at the border. We have real challenges, and this prevents us from dealing with those challenges. I think youre right about the border and especially in places like new york where it is coming to a head, and i have questions about the bipartisan nature of the house and whether it can work together. But i do want to get your take on the two people that are currently now, i guess, leading the house. Sation about leading Steve Scalise and jim jordan. Do you support either one of th let me just comment on the bipartisan nature of the house real quick. I think there was an opportunity yesterday frankly. I am a member of Problem Solvers. We did have a meeting, and i think there was an opportunity for folks to put the country above the insanity, and all 208 democrats that were here voted with matt gaetz. I think it was an opportunity that was missed, and i think it, you know, left a lot of people with a bad taste in their mouth about the ability of Problem Solvers to function. My understanding from the democrats, part of the problem was that Kevin Mccarthy wasnt trust worthy from the democrats, he needed them to help pass the funding bill, and then he went on tv and blamed them for trying to shut down government when that just wasnt the reality. With all due respect, ive never seen a Speaker Of The House thats not partisan. Nancy pelosi was as partisan as they come. Hakeem jeffries literally met with us two weeks ago on the issue of a cr and potential shutdown and said, oh, i dont want to politicize this on the same day House Majority forward dropped mailers and ads attacking people like me. Lets be real. I understand theres definitely going to be a partisan back and forth, but let me ask you this, if you want to come to a bipartisan coalition, i mean, youre from new york, youre from a moderate district, a place where people want to see the house function, they want to see compromise, they want to see bipartisan legislation. Obviously youre a republican in new york. Is there not something that you think that can cross the aisle, that can do that, that can find that middle part of the party in order to get things done . Because there are some big issues facing us, immigration, as you said, but also the government needs to be funded and theres 31 days to do so. Theres a reason that folks like me won, and that was because democrats had one party rule in washington, albany, and new york city for the first in our nations history, and voters want balance. They want compromise. They want common sense. We are in a divided government. Any final legislation is going to have to be bipartisan, which is why the speaker agreed to a bipartisan cr on saturday to keep the government open and funded. He had exhausted all options to get a republican plan through the house to negotiate with the senate. And my colleagues torpedoed that. Thats what happened. Whats going to happen next . We all have a responsibility to govern. Whats going to happen and that is what im here to do. We are going to meet next week as a conference and elect a speaker. This is not going to be a speaker that is elected by democrats. Democrats just removed the republican speaker, so i dont see how youre going to get to 218 without it being the choice of the House Republican majority. Its going to have to be, but theres no question long term, we have to find balance, we have to find compromise, and we have to find bipartisanship in a divided government. I think youre right about that. Let me ask you about specifically jim jordan or Steve Scalise, do you support either one of them . Do you think either one of them will play in your district . If you dont win again, its going to be harder for republicans to maintain control of the house again next year . I havent made any decision as to who i will be supporting for speaker . I think we have a lot of talented people in our party. I think its unfortunate that we took our best player off the field. Kevin mccarthy was the right person to lead this conference. So theres going to have to be a reckoning within the conference Going Forward and determining whos the best person to lead us. Do you think Steve Scalise or jim jordan helps you in your Reelection Bid . I have a lot of questions with respect to, number one, accountability for the eight that torpedoed the conference. Number two, the motion to vacate and changing that rule. How were going to build consensus to get to 218 in the house, and so im looking forward to the conversations, and hearing the answers from those that are seeking this position. And im here today because im speaking to a lot of my colleagues to determine the path forward. And youre speak to go a big audience that watches us from new york, and i think im just trying to get you nailed down on this because, again, youre going to be a power broker as Punch Bowl News has described you Going Forward because youre one of the front line republicans that needs to get reelected again. Do you think hard liners like Steve Scalise or jim jordan who are Lightning Poles among democrats and moderates are going to be good for dwrou . You . At the end of the day, i didnt get elected because of who the leader is. I got elected because i represent my district, and i made the case to my constituents on the issue, and my democratic opponent, Sean Patrick Maloney voted 100 of the time with joe biden and nancy pelosi. Voters want balance. I represent that. Im not concerned about the impact of this on 2024. We need to elect a speaker. We will see who can build consensus to get to 218, and then move forward and focus on the work of the American People because thats why were here. This isnt about personalities. Its not about, you know, leadership. It is about doing the work of the American People. We need to elect a speaker. We will do that and get back to the work. I think youre right about that. People want to see work get done. They want to see bipartisanship. They want to see compromise. We really appreciate you coming on, congressman mike law ler. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you. Appreciate it. Take care. Joining us now, democratic congressman from michigan, dan kildee, congressman, thank you so much. What do you think of this accusation that we have been hearing from a lot of republicans and the Problem Solvers Caucus that the democrats really didnt do the institution any favors yesterday by, as they say, voting alongside matt gaetz . Well, first of all, we dont vote alongside matt gaetz, we took the question that was presented to us, and that is is Kevin Mccarthy fit to be the speaker, and just based on his track record, we came to a unanimous decision that, no, he is not. And its because he can not be trusted to tell the truth. He cant be trusted, you know, when he makes a commitment, he doesnt keep it. I go back to january 6th. When he stood there and held donald trump responsible. Two weeks later was in maralago on his knees to donald trump. I think about the debt ceiling negotiation, where we came together in a bipartisan fashion, shook hands, made a deal. We lived up to our part of it. And within just a few days, Kevin Mccarthy walked away from that deal that he struck with democrats and with president biden. And then i think about this most recent continuing resolution, and i think you pointed it out in your conversation earlier with mike lawler, he went on the sunday shows, the democrats rescued Kevin Mccarthy from the Kevin Mccarthy shutdown. And then he fabricated facts to indicate that we were somehow responsible. I mean, this is just not a person whose word is any good. We know that the republicans get a choice to pick their own speaker. But when they wrote those rules, they knew that democrats were going to hold the speaker to a standard, if that motion to vacate ever appeared on the floor. They knew that, otherwise they never would have argued about it. Do you think that theres go ahead, go ahead. I was going to say, if they expected that we always would have supported the republican speaker no matter what he does to us or no matter how untrustworthy he is, they never would have had a debate about the motion to vacate because it would have been inert. They knew what they were doing. And they knew what the consequence would be. Let me ask you this because and i agree with Congressman Lawler when he says the American People want to see things get done, and right now nothing can get done in the house because theres no speaker. Is there somebody that the democrats can work with . If you were advising anybody on the other side of the aisle, not to say that you would, if you want to get things done, passed in the senate controlled by the democrats, signed by a president whos a democrat, i think you should choose this person, this is a person who can help us work in washington . I can give them a name, hakeem jeffries, hes a person whose word you can trust, but obviously i dont think republicans, i cant imagine republicans are going to embrace that. Im not as concerned about the ideology of who they select as their nominee for speaker because i can deal with any ideology. Jim jordan, Steve Scalise . The question is this a person whose word can be trusted . Can we actually do business . Can we work across the aisle and have some level of trust . So as republicans measure the candidates, my hope is that they place a very high premium, not so much on where this person lands on the political spectrum. Theyre going to elect a conservative. But they can operate in a way that allows us to come together at a table of goodwill and have an honest conversation, knowing when we get up from the table and come to an understandings that the speaker is not going to go out and break his word in 15 or 20 minutes. You did end up working with Kevin Mccarthy, even though he did throw you under the bus afterwards, do you think you can work alongside Steve Scalise and jim jordan. I have a personal relationship with Steve Scalise. Ive probably had 200 conversations with Steve Scalise, ive had about five with Kevin Mccarthy, so i would put him in a different category than kevin. Its not my business to decide. Certainly if i endorse somebody, that probably hurts them. Hakeem jeffries would be a speaker that anybody can work with, and i hope its not too long before hes the speaker. Congressman dan kill lee, thank you very much for joining us. We appreciate you coming on. Who will most likely end up as speaker and where their power will lie. And getting their act together before the next shut down deadline next month. What made donald trump throw up his hands in court today. We are back in 60 seconds. K in. Unresolved Depression Symptoms were in my way. I needed more from my antidepressant. 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Joining us now msnbc political contributor, jake sherman. I ate into some of your time by going along with those lawmakers. You tell me, whats the word on capitol hill . Is it going to be jim jordan or Steve Scalise . You know, katy, i actually am not confident its going to be either of them to be frank with you because of that interview you had with mike lawler, the republican from new york. Im reading tea leaves, i dont see him supporting scalise or jordan, personally. I think its quite possible that the candidate well have for speaker, that will win the speakership is not somebody that were thinking about now. Who is that person . I dont know the answer to that, but i just see very difficult that anybody, that scalise or jordan will get the republican conference, and no chance for unity at this point. I was going to ask that. I started the show saying theres got to be a better way. It seems like a bad infomercial, they cant get the hard right in line, they cant pass legislation, and they cant pass legislation that the hard right wants either. So theres got to be a better way. I would say this. The speaker election is supposed to be next wednesday. I think its safe to say that that could slip. I think if we get into week two or week three or, you know, some period past next wednesday without a Consensus Pick for speaker, and when i say Consensus Pick, i mean, theyre not going to the floor without 218. Theyre not going to go to the floor unless they know they can elect the speaker because theyre going to look like clowns if they do so for another 15 round balloting. It aint going to work. If they get to week two or three, theyre going to have to start looking for a consensus speaker. I dont think its plausible. I dont think its really likely, but i just dont know who in that conference could get 218. I dont know. And you have the balance youll have to make, katy, between the mike lawlers of the world who want to punish the lawmakers who voted