A critical sense, well, in the sense of reinterpretation, because the ancient greek krine is a weighing, yes, that is, it does not weigh, thus from one on the one hand, the decommunization legislation started this process of eradicating the soviet, but on the other hand, they put a taboo on touching the topic of the Second World War, that is, they were not afraid , they could not, they bargained, this is the second question, that is, this topic of the Second World War and a serious rethinking, it is for the russians it was fundamental, because it is part of the scrap. Ugh, for a part of society, this discourse never took place in the 90s, it turned out, well, everyone understands that this is an important memory, because we lost from 8 to 10 Million People in the Second World War, this is a neverdisappearing topic for us, but how to withdraw, how to touch the overgrowth, if even the political leadership, the top president , the parliament could not touch this topic, and they never touched a fullscale war, already only with the acceptance laws on the submission of imperial succession, these safeguards were effectively removed, and now we are in earnest. We can talk about it, but no one touched it, not even the most great and bright patriots, who alone tried, in particular, the institute of National Memory, tried to raise this, but at the highest level it was all extinguished, well , i remember that Viktor Yushchenko dared to touch on this, he even speaking near this very museum, like the Second World War, he once invited soviet veterans and upa soldiers, he said that all people. Those who fought in the Second World War for the independence of ukraine are our heroes , we honor them, and you remember what a ruckus there was then, how people did not perceive, that is , society was not ready, not only the Political Class, society, well, and now we ready, what hindered us after the 15th, 14th year to do this, it seems that this sacredness has fallen, this madness has fallen, but we have already had 10 years of war, now what is stopping us from doing it, lets say there. Sacredness has not fallen, i say, laws, decommunization laws are 2015, they record the inviolability of this topic, look at how the architecture of this law looks like, that except for the places associated with the memory of the Second World War, except for the monuments of the Second World War, everything is excluded there, that is, this space was as if put on pause, well, dont throw it away, i m not saying that nobody should throw it away in slavi park graves, you dont need to bury that. It has ceased to be only a symbolic soviet memorial, look to change, that is, what does a healthy process of commemoration look like work with complex memory, we are launching a public discussion, scientists, society , a Civil Institution of Civil Society with the support of the state, it has been going on there for several years, maybe five years, yes, that is, i will understand how, for example, questions arose that the memorial, a series of memorials, should be changed. The name is not, for example, not 4145, but 3945 and so further, this is an idea being launched, the state should support this discourse, not impose a ban, yes, roughly speaking, monuments are not touched at all, they are untouched, but says that it is necessary to rethink on a fixed at the political level, and this was not done , accordingly, the first part is a public expert discussion, the second part the state accepts the results of the public expert discussion, the third part the state supports key objects, begins to. Finance and show examples further on the ground already local selfgovernment bodies memorials, this is what it should look like, each of these stages can take several years, it was never launched in 2015, and i can say for sure that on the 19th20th we launched this discourse about the submission of the imperial legacy , which is called decolonization, and at the legal level they began to promote it, and here the academic environment, the Civil Society, reacted to our, so to speak irritant, our request, the state, so this issue is now easier already after the start of the war, so if this process is not in itself it will not happen, leadership is needed here, because it cannot, for example, lets imagine. A person, an engineer, a biology teacher, or a salesman or a saleswoman or a professor there , i do not know medicine, they live their normal lives, no one thinks about what is there in the arsenal with the memorial, they know that the Second World War is there, somehow it is connected with grandfathers and everything, grandfathers, grandmothers who fought, if someone does not initiate this discussion, does not ask a valid question, why not rebury other heroes there, they are like that, well, yes, this is a good story, but this voice the one who raises this question should be. The voice of the state, so that people are serious about it, this was never done until, roughly speaking, the 20th year, somewhere in the 22nd, when the threat of russia was already hanging in the air, and even before the symbolic spaces, the last question i will ask before talking about the military memorial complex is fairy tale, but for me a fairy tale cemetery, a fairy tale cemetery this is the principle of such value schizophrenia, right . Generals, that is, it just sounds, well, like some kind of absurdity and sur, yes, when opposite the grave of mykolaichuk, very modest, rises such a snowwhite marble figure of the executor, the executor of the executor of the murder of gong. That is, what to do with it, when it is the central, central cemetery, and on the central alley, in fact the entire central alley and all the most prestigious places, they are occupied, if not by kagabi generals and secretaries of the Central Committee of the communist party of ukraine, then, with all due respect, by Football Players now and now its a completely different kind of value trend, so now its Football Players and some peoples deputies of the party of regions. And so on, what to do about it . Well, in such cases , the best way is because the issue of places of memory and burial places in general is even more complex and delicate from the point of view of legislation than even places of memory, the best way is a special program or efforts of the state to strengthen these loci connected with, for example, we are currently discussing the restoration of lesya ukrainkas grave, the same baikov bike center, well, he. Not in proper condition, as for the level of such and such a person for our society, accordingly, if the state, for example, changes, makes the restoration of the alleys, will highlight , i. E. Illuminate, modernize, put appropriate memorials there to hrushevsky, lesa and other figures, it will be this gesture that will change this symbolic space, but it is not only a good wish, it is a political understanding of this process, b leadership , so that, for example, during the war, we will allocate a certain amount for this. Funds from the budget, because no one, well there, or plus the budget plus the patron, that is, it is a political responsibility to say that it will be so, because it is right, and the third story is to allocate these funds, for years, in the 90s, 2000s , and 10s, everyone was just talking about the fact that culture is important, even now many people will say that culture is important, it is a strategic area, but as soon as it comes to budgetary allocations, so that simply no i say that everything should be changed, but it should be shown, the state should set an example, it should say, here they are. Top memorial, all local selfgovernment bodies, business, such people think, well, yes, this means it is important, because the state does not only talk, but does, then there was no one, the only exception is yushchenko, and then only in the projects related to the famine, yes, that is, under yushchenko, it ceased to differ from words to deeds in matters of memorialization, because the memorial was built in the first place, they were made around the country, but it was only a drop in the ocean, it was only the beginning, so it has never been systematic. Unfortunately in the field of culture, and i would also comment on the quote from schopenhauer with which you started this conversation, the point is that it makes sense that a nation is made up of dead heroes, but if a nation is only made up of from dead heroes, it turns into some kind of antique, not a living nation, what is important to us is a nation that remembers, honors and in a symbolic space fixes the importance, like such beacons from the past, the light they send to. Ed the future, captures these heroes, these outstanding figures of the past, but makes them part of living life, living discussion, society, scientists, because if this does not happen, well, we will have beautiful folios and dead memorials, which simply no one will go to, we have to come up with , how is it to tie like this, actually this bar, which the heroes ask us and in this sense, and i want to continue your opinion, specifically about the neglect of the graves. Lets say, you said about lesya, there are many other graves of ukrainian writers, yes, repressed writers, historical figures who are now in a very neglected state. I had a discussion with my polish colleagues, we argued about something some historical, about some historical facts, and my polish colleague said you just go and look at the grave of stus, in which you see your National Genius grave, and then i actually started thinking about who should take care of the graves, and what if there are families there. Not everyone has it, yes or they cant, or as in the case of lesi ukrainian women, there is no one, its an institute of National Memory, its some kind of city services, how should it work . Legally, it now looks like this, if there is a cemetery such as baikovu, which has a special status there, then the Relevant Services of this cemetery are municipal, by the way, it belongs to the city of kyiv, they are obliged to take care of it, but one thing to take care of. There a couple of times a year, it is oldschool to update the inscription, and another thing is to raise funds, launch public discussions, the process of attracting attention, for example, we met with representatives of the Kyiv City State Administration and the ministry of culture, proactively, because there is an proactive person, mariana toman from of the ministry of culture, this topic is very white to me since the time when we initiated the change of the inscription there to and its good that anna. Starostenko from the kmda agreed, well , we treated it well, and now we are even found several patrons there from volyn who are ready to finance the project, because there you cant just come and make it beautiful, you have to make a project, it has to pass an examination, and this is an example of indifference at the level of a program, but it did not arise because there is some big state program, and these are caring citizens who use their duty as Public Servants to do good deeds, so in essence it is. What hlibovytskyi calls mastery of ones own state, yes, actually, when we, it does not become something foreign, a becomes the norm, because thats what you have to do, you have to occupy your state and use it for the common good of all members of the state, accordingly, this is such an option, but in a good way, it should be civic initiatives of business, which shows, for example, we are taking care of this grave, ideally it should be a state register, Something Like a National Care program for. Places of memory, places of final resting place of the most important figures in the history of ukraine, and this list should be formed according to it have to look after i think there is such a term, in modern legislation people with special merits to the state, they have there, they have a whole procedure of free burial there, there is the creation of some kind of memorial, but it should be, you know, no longer about party, new parties, new ones. Not the highranking officials there, but specifically about such people at the level of the stus, well, with all due respect, none of them are representatives of the highest states, the highest officials of independent ukraine, well, there, with the rare exception of some super cool dissidents, who did for these founders of this republic, well, no reaches to level of shock, accordingly, the grave should be such that the shock of that or that mykolaychuk was visible, accordingly, it was supposed to be a state program, but i assure you, as soon as we sew up, for example, such a program of the ministry of finance. Will tell us additional expenditures of the state budget are not foreseen byebye, and this must be political will, it must be fundamental, because it must, for example, like our war on the information front, for example, i often argue, Pavlo Kazarin says , there is no war in the sphere of culture, it is not that there is no front, yes in the field of information, i do not agree here, there is an information front and a front in the field of culture, because there are top platforms where we can win in the field of culture, and this is a war in the field of culture in russia, the war has been going on for a long time, the same in information, and so , for example, every year we need to have a few Million Dollars in the budget for translations of such books as those by larisa yakubova, who examines this anatomy of racism, or by elena styashkina, or by the same snyder, translated into languages other than english, by chinese, indian, and so on, that is, hindu, and we we have to have it, because if its not us, no one will do it, accordingly, this is a specific program, specific funds, its not some kind of big money, thats how it should be. But the society should come to its deputies, whom the elections will wear them for a jacket, you submitted, you submitted this item to the state budget, or the institute of our memory, why didnt you support it, why didnt you tear your jacket at the committee, until you knock out this item, but most citizens are busy with other issues, other deputies are busy, and deputies are busy with other issues, and we have to sit this the state finally, to use it for the good of the same state, and regarding the political will of the Political Class and also regarding why we as citizens do not take from. The jacket, the Political Class and do not say whether you did it. I remember the speech of svitlana aleksievich, when she received the nobel prize, she came here, met in, i think it was in moghila. With the students, and she then said this thing that the postgenocide nations, they, she, she said so, we are very easy to step over our fallen, because there were so many, yes, there were so many million, which we are used to, she was talking about the soviet people, yes, but now i am asking you about the postgenocide nation of ukrainians, isnt that why we dont abuse our politicians . And why , and why, isnt that why we do our business, because we are a postgenocide nation, or is it somehow related to the fact that we dont respect heroes enough, i think there are at least three reasons, and maybe better experts than i may be called more, the first reason is that it is scary for us to realize how many such people there could be, that is, even to approach of this topic, not in the sense that we are used to trespassing, or we begin to understand that as soon as we touch this box, there will appear. More, more, more, and we will eventually have to realize how many such people lie throughout the entire space of both modern ukraine and the soviet union, that is, this is a certain system of warning of fear, once, secondly, you still have to give, well, you have to admit that the 90s, it was a very difficult time in economic terms, when people actually survived , that is, families, good families, which should first of all become the conscience of this. Well forced used to sell pants in stadiums in order to survive, and accordingly, in such a situation you have three children on your back, and such a situation that there is no salary for three months, five months, and you simply cannot at this time , psychologically it is difficult for you to go and tell someone something about someones graves, if your children are not fed, this is the second reason, well , the third reason, this helplessness that was cultivated by the soviet system, because it was trained on the fact that. A person did not interfere in these matters , she could quietly take care of her own, that is, the space of Civil Society the responsibility of a soviet person had to end at his door, at the door of his apartment maxim, well, the state is foreign, we could not take over a foreign state, it even sounds abstract, the entrance is foreign, so there is always no care, and only now, when we have gradually created the osb, having created some forms, when we built relations with private property in a slightly different way, we began to. Expand a little, then together with our neighbors we cleaned the entrance, then we began to plant flowers around apartment buildings, then decentralization, we began to feel there the community, for example, go to the rush and feel how the community works, there, well, in addition to the fact that there is a wonderful head who works on it, but it is being built little by little, you understand , its mine, its ours, its common, it, and accordingly, before that happened, these are some other peoples graves, someone elses family, and since i have a border, a door, a border. A safe space, maybe i know for sure that i can influence and i wont get anything for it, its my door, my apartments and not always, then its not like that, that is, these three factors will definitely influence, and understanding this, working with it, changing it little by little with specific examples that the state should encourage, it cant do everything , the state will never do, no state will ever have enough money for this, but it should set an example, say do this, i bless it ,