performance was perfectly serviceable, it was much better than what we did before and to be honest we have to keep in mind this is knocking the rust off for him, as long as he's been in politics he hasn't really been in the day-to-day debates and i think that was a good performance on his part. >> you hear in terms of -- >> he keeps underestimating and has big lead. they would rather have more younger liberal challenger. >> case of media objectivity, i'm not sure that vice president biden deserved much more credible praise here. we are talking about stumbling for words, he wasn't crystal clear and therefore he got kind of a b minus which is not very exciting and the old expression