business in russia and then go out and lie to the american people by saying the same thing. in his way, he was telling me to lie. so, garrett, that was such a headline grabbing moment when it sounded as though there was going to be an overt direction to lie to congress. and this is much more subtle of michael cohen saying he got the message. and i'm wondering what you think of that testimony that he'll say? >> this sort of perfectly explains and is consistent with the buzzfeed reporting and then the special counsel's unprecedented denials saying that they don't vefds have evidf that. which is not to say that cohen sort of didn't feel that way that he had been instructed to lie. it's just that the special counsel did not have evidence of a direct overt act, as you said. this is sort of the who will rid me of the meddlesome priest question, which is if donald trump and michael cohen have worked together long enough, he