Dead or dying . David i think the leadership in the house and senate decided its dead and ignoring it. Although i was pleased that over half the House Republicans voted no, even with pressure from the white house and their leadership to vote yes for it. But its true. Epublicans have become big spenders. At least the house and Senate Leadership republicans, just like the democrats. And the tea Party Started out as an independent group. They lined up with republicans because they were smaller government, but they were suspicious of politicians, and i think that sentiment is very much alive. If you had to describe it today, how would you describe President Trumps fiscal legacy . David my view is President Trump worked hard to reduce spending and they were ignored by republican allies in the house and senate, and couldnt get better deals than what they got. So right now, its building debt. And thats going to be a big problem for our country. Weve been saying that for probably a decade now. The economy, fortunately, is expanding, which i think is the trump legacy. That expansion lets you absorb more and get a chance to get to a balanced budget. But you have to put the brakes on spending to do that. You put the responsibility on the part of republicans in the house and senate. But theres also a republican in the white house. Two what do you attribute this change in attitude towards deficit spending other than the fact republicans were against it when there was a democratic president , and now for it when theres a republican president . David i see a couple of them couple of dynamics. The omb is a deficit hawk. They work very hard to try to keep that lower. I kind of think with the president s encouragement and approval. But youve got the big spenders, particularly in the senate, the procreatives on the republican side, are happy to spend larger amounts. They think its good politics and they dont mind if some of the money goes to democratic causes and some of it goes to theirs. You also have a complicated dynamic among republicans right now, where defense talks have basically made a deal for about five years now with the democrats. If you let us increase the defense spending where we think it should be, well sign on to your domestic spending, let you decide where that goes and what its for. That secondhalf cuts against everything they campaigned on, reducing welfare, the size of government. But their goal of having a strong, robust defense department, lets them trump that and sign up for spending goals. You guys have since refashioned yourself as a pro club pro Trump Organization ahead of the 2020 election. I was wondering if you would explain that decision you made. David yeah, and let me go back a little bit. Youre right. We had other candidates that were club supported candidates that we preferred. But when President Trump at the nomination, we stepped back and did things that supported him in pennsylvania and wisconsin, where we had candidates running for senate. Then when he got elected, he started governing on our agenda in many respects. The taxcut bill, repeal and replace, obamacare, cutting regulations and making that a primary goal. Trade was an area where we still werent aligned, but he started to articulate a goal of 00 tariffs, but im going to use tariffs to bring people to the table. Weve accommodated that and said tariffs are costly and hurt the economy, but well support you and try to negotiate for the much better trade deal. And the bottom line answer, hes governed as a freemarket conservative for the most part. Its those policy results that dictate where we go and where we align. Looking forward to the next election, he clearly is going to be the most freemarket candidate there is. And hes going to be up against a democrat, almost all of whom are now starting to move towards socialism or very radical big government, leftist, nonfreemarket proposals. So the contrast is going to be really clear. So for our goal, promoting policies, President Trump being reelected makes sense. So were aligning with that and doing things that would help him position himself to be in a good place to run for reelection. Speaking of 2020, now 15 months away, do you know how much the club is going to spend in the cycle . And how much of that is president ial versus congressional . David let me share what were doing now because it gets to the nswer. Essentially we decided President Trump has his own campaign, his own super pac educated to that. He didnt really need club for growth money being spent on his behalf. Ut what we could do is highlight the chaos thats going on in the democratic field. But to do that, and alex reported on that, knows some of the things weve done, we have to think how do we communicate to democrats in their primary about their issues and their values . Very different. We kind of started by recognizing none of them are going to be progrowth on freemarket candidates. But what will they care about on their terms, and how can we understand that and bring that information to bear . With joe biden, we ended up doing an ad that highlighted his discord between his earlier positions on racial positions and current positions. Kamala harris picked that up, ran with it in the debate, and its been something hes had to deal with since then. Early on with beto, we knew all about him in the texas race against ted cruz, and that he really wasnt the progressive innovative guy he was projecting himself to be. He, in the past, had done a lot of things to help big business. Again, to the disadvantage of poor, hispanic people in el paso. We highlighted that so the voters in iowa would know that. We decided the best thing the club could do in this stage is bring forward those two things, information, messages, let them affect what is going on on the democratic side of the primary next year. You were asking how much well spend. I couldnt tell you how much it will be. But i think what well end up doing is focus on areas where nobody else is bringing forward a message, and fits with our alignment of fiscal conservatism and broadcast the differences. Do you think it will be more than what you spend in the 2016 cycle . David i think it will be on par with that. We spent a lot. Ballpark . David 14 million 15 million in 2016. I dont think it will be that much. Well end up focusing on senate and house races, the bulk of the resources. It wont be as much, but it will e significant. One of the strongest arguments President Trump has for reelection is the economy. But weve had a number of signals from markets and Consumer Confidence that maybe things this growth cycle were on has run its course. What tools does the president have left in his toolbox, after already cutting taxes and regulations weve seen a decrease in interest rates. We have a deficit spending fueling the economy right now. If we do end up in a recessionary cycle, what else can the president do . What else can congress do . Or is he really at the end of his rope . David great question, gregory. I think the key there now is in the trade ground. One, the fundamentals are swollen. Youre seeing volatility in the marketplace as people are projecting where were going to be 18 months ago from now. Where do i put my money . They put it in treasuries. Thats crated temporary inversion. But the fundamentals of production, economic growth, unemployment, are still very, very good. Whats happened that i think is causing volatility in the market space, the president s strategy in china imposed tariffs on china, and those are ultimately a cost to the american people. That one point, i think he articulated it. Were doing well now. Let me use this tool. I understand the tariffs might be a drag on the economy, but now is the time to do it because both sides will benefit. Hasnt he tried to go both ways on that . He delayed implement and tariffs saying he didnt want consumer staffs to pay. David right, which i think is recognizing that the tariffs are a drag right now on economic growth. Theyre i wouldnt say a small drag. They werent as significant as other things. Like higher taxes or more regulation. What it really means is the window is narrowing for when we have to get the new trade agreement. When that happens, then i think you see another boost to economic growth, sustain the cycle were in for a number of years because youve got certainty, basically, in the World Economy about trade with the United States. And im actually confident the president is able to deliver on that. Its taken time. The chinese basically called him on it and said we think you have to have an agreement in name, but we dont have to give you any subsidy substantive concessions. But trump called an audible. m not just going to sign an agreement that Means Nothing in reality but says we have an agreement. There has to be a real concession. China, by the way, is hurting worse than the United States. Theyre a dictatorship. They can last through the next election cycle, but its also possible theyll get to the point where they see it as a winwin to meet us partly. Would you say the United States is winning the trade war . David i think the fact that china needs to consider basically accepting International Test intellectual property rights, changing their fundamental business model. Theyre saying no right now, but its on the table for something they have to concede. Thats a win. Were still in the middle of the backandforth of the negotiation. Theres no clear winner, one way or the other. But the possibility of getting a good trade agreement is there. Club for growth has been participating in a special election in North Carolina next month. To what extent is that contest going to be National Issues weve been discussing . And to what extent, given that this is a republican seat, is there pressure on the party to win this seat come next month . David to your second question, i think theres tremendous pressure on the party. Kevin mccarthy has laid out a plan to retake. If he loses, it will be much harder next year. We are coordinating with what we do in the super pac with what both entities are aligned. We like dan bishop, the candidate. Hes a strong, fiscal conservative. Mccready is a democrat. Hes actually very vulnerable on nonpartisan issues because he wont answer questions and it looks like hes hiding liberal views. And the voters are starting to sense that. So, i think in the one way, every election for congress has a local element. They have people they like and dont like. This one is starting to become nationalized. Its going to be, will a trump supporter, republican, be able to win what should be a republican seat against a democrat who tries to distance himself from nancy pelosi . Tries to, but then has overwhelming support from radical environmental groups aligned with some of the new green deal and the most radical elements of their agenda. So, i think its a test. Will a mainstream conservative republican, who supports the president , win against a democrat who claims not to be a socialist like everybody else, but in reality is supported by the same forces . You tend to get involved more often in open seats, but you havent been afraid to challenge republicans in primaries. Does your Strategy Change now that democrats are in control of the house of representatives . Are you defending more seats . Are you attacking more seats . David yeah, thats a very good insight. We still kind of reserve that, if a republican is acting more like a democrat than a good free market conservative, well challenge an incumbent. But we looked at this week was getting more progrowth candidates into the conference. So, we started with open seats where there were republican retirees. We identified good potential candidates there. Then we looked at democrat seats where democrats won, but trump had carried the district. Thats a great challenger race because the turnout will be more balanced, and a republican has a chance to win. So well engage in the primary to get a progrowth candidate who can carry that. And we have had to be on the defensive in a couple races. The democrats have their target list of sitting republicans that they think are still vulnerable. One of them is a great candidate, we think is going to win, but its going to be a tough race, is it scott perry and pennsylvania. Weve got a mix of all those. One of my favorite races is the virginia seven, where dave lost. Democrats have a strong incumbent. Weve identified a strong potential candidate there and believe that it could be a bellwether of whether republicans can get the majority back. Who are some republicans acting more like democrats . David some of them are retiring. But one of them is elise stefanik, who has been put in charge of recruiting. You look at her voting record, she aligns much more closely with emigrants in congress than the majority of the republican conference. Shes a likable person. People like her. But her voting record is not that strong. I know you put out a scorecard on members of congress. Justin amash, independent, is somebody who has a 99 record with the club for growth on the things that you score. Are you going to be supporting him in 2020 . David youre right. Justin has a great record on our Economic Issues. He basically made a political misstep in calling for President Trumps impeachment. I think hes wrong on the merits on that. But also, that means i dont think hes a viable candidate on that. We look for ideology. Are they promote test committed to progrowth agenda . And are they electable . Weve got about five minutes left. President trump held a rally in new hampshire, talked up candidacy of corey lewandowski. Should he enter the senate race, does he represent the kind of candidate club for growth would support . David we havent met with corey yet, and were going to and well find out after that interview. Wed like to see what hes going to campaign on. Is it fiscal issues . Or is it social issues we dont engage on . One of the things i find appealing about that is it would put the democrats on defense in the senate race, everyone assumed would not be a race this year. As, when you think about it, its always better to be on offense than defense. And potentially, corey could achieve that in new hampshire. For maybe one question that well ask you to put on your other hat, cofounder of the federalist society. What is the mix here of Economic Issues, social issues, that the Supreme Court was a very animating force in President Trumps election the first time around. Please of the kind of Supreme Court justices im going to nominate. Can that issue still propel his base to the polls, or do you need to make the economic argument youve been making . David right, so conventional wisdom is if the economy is strong, the president will be reelected. There is data going back multiple decades that will be the case. So, the economic issue is always really important. But your point is a good one. The courts became a symbol on a lot of the social issues because the court had driven issues on marriage, issues on life. Those are ones we dont engage in. But i think President Trump successfully harnessed that conservative momentum by picking really good potential justices and campaigning on that. I see that happening again. I would project that one, hell want to make that another issue. And i suspect the democrats will want to make their view a entral part of the campaign, given what happened on the last Supreme Court nomination, where you saw a very stark divide between the party. Not about confidence, and it ended up being a character assassination. But in the end, i think the democrats justified character assassination because they didnt want the principal of a conservative justice on the court. Social issues . Or what kind of Business Decisions . David by the way, we do engage on confirmations because a lot of Business Decisions are at stake. Regulating the internet, right . The court is going to decide the use of government power to nationalize industries, which some of the democrats are calling for. Those could be decided by the Supreme Court. It goes beyond social issues. And its also about who decides in our system . Do we want to have the constitutional system weve had, where decisions are mostly done in the elected branches, and the court, as the chief justice says . Or do we want a Super Legislature to enact progressive, socialist, whatever label, legislation that doesnt have majority support . Thats really what the court comes down to. Are we going to have separation of powers and a Constitutional Government that limits what the court does . Or do we go towards an era where the court becomes a Super Legislature . Conservatives strongly believe the role of the court is limited to interpreting the laws and not making it. If theres an opening on the Supreme Court next year, should Mitch Mcconnell move to fill any vacancy with the president s nomination . David absolutely. If the president has the opportunity to fill that vacancy, he should do it, pick a strong nominee, and the senate should do its work to confirm it. One more question each. Youve been involved in the conservative movement for some time. The nra has been going through a lot of turmoil, and i know youre on the outside, but do you believe there needs to be a shakeup at the nra . And what is the future of the nra at this point . David the nra stands for a value that is central to conservatism. Its the second amendment, but fidelity to constitutional liberties and freedoms. I think theyre going to get through the season and emerge as a very strong organization. From the outside, i wouldnt want to be suggesting what they do or how they do it. Thats something thats up to them, their board, their preside