Finances were in a dire state. Hang on. There was this 22 Billion black hole. We spend 1200 Billion billion black hole. We spend i200 billion pounds every year in this 22 Billion so called black hole, a mere accounting device. In this whole debate, what the Labour Government are trying to do was to make the political point that the Conservative Party ran the country into the ground and therefore weve got to punish therefore weve got to punish the pensioners. It is absolute and complete rubbish. And what those we represent cant understand, these people who worked hard all their lives, have done their bit for the country, their total package is perhaps 13 or 14,000 a year. What they cant understand is that this so called saving of public money is actually going to go to Train Drivers who own 70,000 a year. Theyjust dont understand it. So for god sake, lets have a serious debate. Lets try to unite on this issue and lets not keep taking away benefits from people just above the Pension Credit limit. And of course there are many pensioners who are entitled to pensioners who are entitled to Pension Credit for all sorts of reasons will never claim it. They are suffering and so they will be even worse off than there is another point to be made. I know the government will argue the total package will argue the total package will be worth more after the increase in the Triple Lock next year but, actually, if you are a pensioner who is drawing your pension before 2016, by the time youve had this cut, you will probably be even worse off. The first cut in the State Pension for years. This is not acceptable. This is not the right way to go about things. We should unite around a sensible package that rewards pensioners for their hard work but does not indulge in a political gesture. I recognise the serious political gesture. I recognise the serious economic political gesture. I recognise| the serious economic context political gesture. I recognise. The serious economic context of this debate today. The afs, for example, is estimated that 320,000 people had been pushed into poverty because of Mortgage Interest Rate rises triggered by the disastrous autumn 2022. And of course there are many unfunded policies that the then Prime Minister made. So when i recognised the measures and the Kings Speech will go a long way to reducing and reducing in the medium term, tackling the appalling poverty that we are seeing, they will not come in time for this winter. I am proud that they by continuing the Triple Lock on pensions, something that will be worth an estimated 416, an extra 416. This will not happen until next spring. The setting up of the new energy production company, again, alongside Making Homes more efficient, is a fantastic initiative and it will contribute to our net zero targets and reduce the Energy Bills. Again, this wont be in time to offset the 10 increase in Energy Bills this winter. I support ourfocus in Energy Bills this winter. I support our focus about growing our economy but again, this will not happen overnight. The Joseph Rowntree Foundation estimated in their report earlier this year that there are 2 Million pensioners, one in six of all pensioners. Poverty rates are much higher. We estimate that will also be the Same for pensioners. We know that four in ten older people have a disability and almost half of a long time health condition. Before the Escalation Energy costs one in six were living in Fuel Poverty. Although Pension Credit provides extra support for the poorest pensioners, and opens up help such as Council Tax discounts for those who are eligible for it, only five and a half thousand of the 9000 households are eligible. Again. I welcome the automatic linking of Pension Credit to Housing Benefit to increase the uptake. This wont happen in time for the next few months. Thank you so much. I cant. Ive been under strict guidance from the deputy speaker. 0ne under strict guidance from the deputy speaker. One in three pensioners live in poverty are on private rented accommodation to what are we going to do about that . But even if Everyone Eligible for Pension Credit would claim it, according to Age Uk that will still be 2 Million pensioners less well off it wont be eligible for the Pension Credit or the Winter Fuel Payment. The Cut Off threshold for Pension Credit is just under 12,000 A Yearfor a single person, not wealthy pensioners. Poverty is poverty, whoever experiences it. We have 8 Million working people living in poverty. 4 Million children and 2 Million pensioners. As we did under the previous labour administrations, we know it wont happen overnight so can i point out what we know about the Health Effects of the cold. There was a very good paper published, revealing date of the past 20 years, which shed the past 20 years, which shed the extra deaths, the excess deaths as a result of the cold. I could mention dozens and dozens of cases from my constituents are written into me who are reallyjust clinging on following the last 14 years. Could i ask my right honourable friends if they are able to say what they may have considered notjust in terms of offsetting the loss of 300 but also alternative ways of raising the 1. 4 billion means testing that we will get from the Winter Fuel Payment. I know how complex and difficult our situation is but please, we must protect our most vulnerable citizens. I called the liberal vulnerable citizens. I called the Liberal Democrat the Liberal Democrat spokesperson. The Liberal Democrat sokeserson. spokesperson. Thank you, very much. Spokesperson. Thank you, very much my spokesperson. Thank you, very much. My inbox spokesperson. Thank you, very much. My inbox has spokesperson. Thank you, very much. My inbox has been much. My inbox has been inundated with correspondence from pensioners in north east fife, where it gets very cold, who are deeply worried. I know thatis who are deeply worried. I know that is far from a who are deeply worried. I know that is farfrom a unique experience across this house and send the chance Thes Announcement in latejuly we have held the concerns of our elderly constituents. We know that the Winter Fuel Payment provide support during the coldest months of the year. It is not a luxury and a chance oppose Nay Decision believe as many as too many people extremely worried how they will afford their Energy Bills this winter. Now, we accept that the new government has been left with an unenviable task of rebuilding our economy after the mess left by the previous Government And Nobody is disputing years of conservative mismanagement have left the public finances in crisis. But this cut is simply wrong. It is wrong to strip support from the poorest pensioners just as Energy Bills are set to rise again. It is wrong to force vulnerable elderly people to make that choice between heating and eating this winter and it is the wrong answer to the challenges that we face. The way that we treat them well debunk vulnerable members of our community reflects who we are as a society and what sort of signal does it stand, turning our backs on millions of pensioners . In addition, i have campaigned consistently for unpaid carers and election, as indeed has my party and our leader. Scotty centres data is still awaited but there are almost 1. 4 Million people across the Uk Aged over 65 who are providing Un Paid Care and though Carers Uk await data on whom many will lose the Winter Fuel Allowance we know that these are some of the most vulnerable in our society. Im vulnerable in our society. Im ha vulnerable in our society. Im happy to vulnerable in our society. Im happy to give vulnerable in our society. Im happy to give way. On the net of disproportionate attacks on certain groups, im sure she is aware, North Norfolk is home to 20,000 pensioners and has a title being the oldest constituency in the country, and many of them face, already, higher Energy Cost due to the huge number of North Norfolk homes which are off the gas grid. Does she agree that these cuts will have a disproportionate impact on older rural constituencies like North Norfolk and the government must go back to the Drawing Board with these misguided proposers . I Drawing Board with these misguided proposers . I think my honourable misguided proposers . I think my honourable friend misguided proposers . I think my honourable friend forgiving misguided proposers . I think my honourable friend forgiving me. | honourable friend forgiving me. I think that is one of the things often loss in relation to the Energy Energy Crisis increases. The guarantee does not support those using other forms of fuel and i know that thoseissues forms of fuel and i know that those issues have been raised in the house before and i look forward to hearing what the government is going to do to support those individuals. The new parliament represents an opportunity to move on from the Chaos And Misery of recent years but this cut would be far from a fresh start. It would be a disappointing and shameful abandonment of poor and vulnerable pensioners. Age uk have condemned this cut. They point out that it has been introduced with virtually no notice and no compensatory measures and Ijust Notice and no compensatory measures and i just want to note from the debate this morning, when the Pensions Minister was talking about compensatory measures, that we know that there is real complexity around what will additionally be available to support people. In other questionnaires needed for Pension Credit. We know that Household Support Fund has been extended but we dont know what that will mean and we know that the 150 grant may be available for some but what you are left without a listing to the debate this morning is that we are in a position where the government made a decision to make this cut but have road properly thought through the consequences of the measures that will be available to support those most in need. When the Coalition Government came in in 2010, we faced a really serious economic crisis. A very genuine blanco. And we had to make some very tough decisions as a Coalition Government but we never considered, never did this. A very genuine black hole. There are difficult decisions made during the coalition but the government is saying today that there Triple Lock and one of the reasons the Liberal Democrats brought that enduring coalition and by the continue to support the Triple Lock as we know that not enough has been done to better support vulnerable pensioners. I been done to better support vulnerable pensioners. Vulnerable pensioners. I am sure she vulnerable pensioners. I am sure she will vulnerable pensioners. I am sure she will acknowledge l vulnerable pensioners. Lam sure she will acknowledge that in scotland we have the coldest climate in the whole of the united kingdom. Well be disproportionately hit and it is absurd that will happen in energy rich scotland. She appealed to all scottish members to ensure this is supported. Im sure constituents right across scotland will be watching very carefully how scottish members of Parliament Vote Tonight will she encourage them to bed with us this evening . I she encourage them to bed with us this evening . Us this evening . I think we all know that us this evening . I think we all know that geographical know that geographical disparities exist not only in terms of how cold parts of the country are but also in relation to the differing Energy Costs, the different communities face. Notjust in terms of those different ways but also because of the different means of fuel. 0bviously, different means of fuel. Obviously, i am standing here and we will be supporting the official opposition is tonight and other mp5 across the house do so. Going back to Age Uk, they have drawn attention to low take up rates for Pension Credit around 1 Million pensioners would be eligible but do not claim it often due to a lack of awareness. Since the chance Thes Announcement Weve Seen Lots from the government about how going to increase the update and we have seen reports that suggest an increase in application but also that that wait times for thatis also that that wait times for that is increasing. What i would like to see from the Secretary Of State is if people are applying for Pension Credit and only get that confirmed after the Winter Fuel Payment is made, will those people be caught up with . The dwp has stated that its calculations assume an increase in that uptake of Pension Credit but that will still leave over 700,000 eligible pensioners not getting Pension Credit and therefore not getting Winter Fuel Payments. Those of us in the last parliament will remember numerous Drop Ins to outline the steps the then government was taking to encourage Pension Credit uptake and what mps themselves could do, i certainly remember, writing regularly in my local Newspaper Column to outline how people could apply but the reality is the numbers of people up taking Pension Credit is stubbornly stuck at 70 ceiling. Id be very interested to know what this government is going to do that will be radically different in order to increase this. And the Governments Rationale is that this cut will save 1. 4 billion. But how they made an assessment of what that saving would be if they fulfil that day to day of making sure that all those eligible claim . Is another fundamental contradiction at the heart of this Measure Today . How can the government aim to boost Pension Credit on the one hand while aiming to maximise the fiscal savings that it maximise the fiscal Savings Thatitis maximise the fiscal savings that it is making through this cut . What will it cost to increase the take up rate and can the Secretary Of State give an assurance that the treasury will give its full support to any measures aimed at boosting the uptake of Pension Credit. A separate but unrelated issue is the cliff edge. Analysis by Policy And Practice shows that around 130,000 elderly people miss out on Pension Credit as they are just 500 over the Income Threshold to claim the benefit and we know that those vulnerable elderly people will now be Cut Off from Winter Fuel Payments with just a few months notice. That leaves me feeling that there is cruelty at the heart of this cut. These vulnerable pensioners who spent years struggling under a conservative cost of living crisis are now faced with a double hit, an increase in Energy Price Cut from the 1st Of October alongside being stripped of Winter Fuel Payments. It is important that we do not forget that Energy Costs are much increased than they were from a few years ago so arguably a Winter Fuel Payment is needed more than it ever was. This house has an Opportunity Today to do the right thing and protect those vulnerable members of our society. The Liberal Democrats will be supporting this motion and i hope other members will do the Same. Do the Same. Im going to Im Ose do the Same. Im going to impose a do the Same. Im going to impose a clear do the Same. Im going to i impose a clear threeminute impose a clear three minute time impose a clear three minute Time Limit impose a clear three minute Time Limit from now on. I m Time Limit from now on. Im pleased Time Limit from now on. Im pleased to Time Limit from now on. Im pleased to have Time Limit from now on. In pleased to have the opportunity to speak in this debate on changes to winterfuel changes to Winter Fuel Allowance. I, like many of my colleagues on these benches have been contacted by constituents worried about the impact of these changes but i also bring 25 years of experience of working on Public Health and older people, laterally, Chief Executive of the national ageing charity. During this time i came to understand the impact of cold and damp homes on the health and damp homes on the health and Well Being of older people and Well Being of older people and the challenges of addressing pensioner poverty. With those pensioners up and down the country who will be losing their Winter Fuel Payments this winter, where the ultimate decision lies. Not with the Memberfor Ultimate Decision lies. Not with the member for Leeds West. But with the member and his party. It turns out they were pursuing a scorched earth policy. The nhs running on empty, cost of housing, Asylum Seekers and hollow promises on capital projects across the country including in my own constituency. I know that the chancellor and her colleagues have not taken the decision lightly to means test the Winter Fuel Payments. Hard choices have to be made to put the countrys finances back in order. We know there are many pensioners who are going to miss out and i worry that they going to be left in the cold. In my constituency there 1160 Thousand people eligible but not receiving it. I spoke to one constituency did not know if he was eligible. I urge colleagues to work to support their residents to apply for Pension Credit and other benefits to which they may be entitled. The other group who risk being left in the cold this winter are those with disabilities, Health Conditions who live in cold and damp accommodation. We know that Cold Homes can cause respiratory conditions, cardiovascular disease, Mental Health and hypothermia. In 2019 nhs spent at least 2. 5 billion per year treating illnesses directly links to cold, damp and dangerous homes. So pensioners are more likely to be living in poorly insulated homes leading to a higher risk of Fuel Poverty and worried about pensions like barbara in my constituency, a full time carer, a husband with dementia, having spent my money because they are at home and because he is ill. I would also urge my colleagues that, given the crisis that the nhs faces, oversell directly of the 14 years of Funding Pressure and cuts from the party opposite, they work with colleagues to ensure Winter Planning Guidance means the nhs tackle Fuel Poverty. Means the nhs tackle fuel ove. ~ means the nhs tackle fuel ove. ~ , who wouldve thought a Prime Minister, not even an office for weeks, would be so out of touch with the public . Yet here we are and yes, this Prime Minister is. Along with the chancellor and the whole of his cabinet to a going along with and supporting this cruel policy. The chancellor should be u