Some pieces to bang your head on. Yeah. We have a GrAnd Piano if youd like to entertain us. A GrAnd Piano . Yes. I can open it, but i couldnt play it. John laughs Michael Palin, welcome to This cultural life. Thank you. You were born in sheffield in 1943. What are your earliest memories of childhood, Home Life . Um, i think it was shopping in the Ration Book era. Um, And i can remember going with my mother to get. I think we were given free Orange Juice at that time. Really, This must have been. I must have been three or four. And watching it being filled up And hAnded over. Your father was an engineer in the sheffield steel industry. Yeah. What Sort Of man was he . What was he like . He was. He was quite a difficult man in a way. He was a little Bit Sort of. Could be quite cantankerous. And i think a lot of This went down to the fact he had a stammer all his life. He was a man with a good sense of humour, but probably unable to telljokes because of the stammer. So i think there was a Bit of frustration there. And did his stammer make him angry . I think it did make him angry at times, yes. Id say, he was a Bit. He was a Bit short tempered. And my mother, who must have lived with it all her, well, heradult life, was very good, just carried on doing whatever had to be done. She was, um. She had a terrific Sort Of practical, pragmatic, functional way of doing things, but was lovely And funny, too. So. There we were. Many years later, you played a man in a film called a fish called wAnda. Yes. A man with a severe stammer. Yes. Were you drawing on your father then . Consciously . Oh, yes. Um, John Cleese had asked me if i. Very early on, he was writing This heist movie, And one of the people in the gang had vital information, also had a stammer, which, of course, you know, whatever you may think, its a very funny idea. Do you know where theyve gone . Ehm fine. Where . The c. Hotel. The hotel . Which hotel . Ca. The ca. The. And he said, look, Iwant The Stammer to be. To sound Right And realistic. And he said. He knew my father, And he said, can you. Can you Sort Of deliver that . And i said, well, yeah, i think i could. And i wanted to make sure that the Stammer Wasnt a Sort Of Ba Ba ba, Da Da Da da, um, comic stammer, butjust a kind of frustration when you have. Very important things to say. And theresjohn on the other side. Yes, Come On, Come On. Ca. ca. Oh, Come On im sorry. Was your father still alive when the film came out . No. No, he. I wouldnt have. I wouldnt have done it. Mm. I wouldnt have done it if hed still been alive. It would have just been a Bit too. Too painful. Mm. What Sort Of cultural upbringing did you have at home . Was it an artistic household . Musically, yes. My father played the piano a lot, um, And big Stuff Bach And all that Sort Of stuff before supper. It was a fairly Sort Of conventional middle class household. A few books, but not a lot. I loved reading, And i actually used to go to the Sheffield City Library with my father, And he would go upstairs And id go downstairs to the childrens library, And i just thought that was absolutely wonderful. And what about your Mums Influence . What was. What was her influence on your creative imagination . She was just very sympathetic to anything. If i wanted to tell her a story about something, Shed Listen rather than be too busy. She was very nice that way, And was very encouraging about my work at school. I can remember. I remember it was my father used to go. He was a Bell Ringer at the local church. So hed go down And do bell ringing on friday night. And that was a Bit of a relief because he was out of the house And we could do. And i remember my mother was so. She was so indulgent. I would read shakespeare plays to her, playing all the characters. At home . Yes, yes. And she never told me to stop. Which wasjust nice. She made me feel i could Sort Of express myself at home in a way which my Father Wouldnt have had the patience to allow. And when you were reading those characters, i presume they came with voices And distinct characteristics, then, did they . Oh, yes. Yeah. I was a terrible old ham. That was your first experience of performance, then, i guess . Uh, yes. I was in a couple of plays at school. I was a little nervous about acting in front of an audience. It was a different Sort Of experimenting on characters And parts for my mother on friday night, but, uh, it was much later on that i actually Sort Of became comfortable in front of audiences. Taking you back to Home Life, mid 50s, what about Radio Comedy . How important was that . Radio comedy was very important in ourfamily, And it was a nice thing we could. All of us, my mum, my dad And me And my sister, if she was back from work, would sit round And listen to much binding in the marsh, programmes like that. And there was a real. We could all enjoy that. It was one of the few things that as a family, wejust all enjoyed. On the other hAnd, the Goon Show, which i really, really liked, i could only listen to on my own. Even my mother was Goon Show proof. My father thought that, you know, the radio had broken when he came in And. Highpitched gibberish like that. He speaks gibberish he couldnt understAnd it at all. At all. Heavy knocking tinny knocking laughter who is it, eh . Who is it . Quickly open This door| or else we break it down, so heaven help me as i live And breathe. However did you get a name like that . Laughter i have influence. Open up, mrcrun. Its me, eccles. 0h, eccles, its me, mr crun. 0h, mrcrun, its me, eccles the Goon Show was actually the first time i had discovered something on my own. Of course, my friends at school, some of them absolutely loved it. Not all of them. Oh, really . People who couldnt suspend their Sort Of, uh, seriousness, um, found it quite hard. Whats the point of it . And all that. And i said, well, theres no point. Thats the point. Its interesting, though, with the absurdity And the surrealism, the goons were clearly paving the way for python. Did you end up working with Spike Milligan ever . Yes. Um, we did. I did end up getting to know spike quite well, which was an extraordinary thing, really. And, infact, i did a programme for the bbc called Comic Roots when they filmed Sort Of your childhood influences. Right. And in one of them, i, um. I asked spike if hed come along And sit with me in a room which was Sort Of designed like our house at home, And i got the same radio huge, great radio with three valves which i used to listen to the Goon Show on. Radio This is the bbc light programme. And, cAndidly, im fed up with it. And just. And play a Bit of goons together. And i could not quite believe what was actually happening. Here was spike in the room, you know, And we just played a little Bit. Spike, i lived for the show. I mean, the day of the week. So i heard. When i heard the Goon Show Kept me going for the entire week. But did you know via letters or any feedback at all that there was This generation growing up who had been totally liberated By. . No, the bbc Kept. Kept EnglAnd Secret from us, totally. We had a good summer. Yeah thats how it was. I thought that was very nice because, you know, spike was a little Bit on the manic depressive side. He found it very hard work, writing these brilliant scripts that we all laughed at. So one good summer was. I know what he meant, you know. You look back nostalgically And say, oh, everything was just perfect. And, of course, it wasnt if you were writing it. It was bloody hard work. Thats a lovely phrase, isnt it . Yeah, yeah. On This cultural life, i ask my guest to choose the most important influences And experiences that have inspired their own creativity. And the first Moment Youve chosen, michael, is Meeting Terryjones in 1962 at Oxford University. How did you meet terry . It was the first day there, And there was a man called robert hewison, who thought he was very funny. And i thought, Come On, im the funny one. I tell the jokes here. But robert was very funny. And we shared a love of the Goon Show And Peter Sellers And all that, And he said, you know, what weve got to do is Sort Of do a Comedy Act together. In oxford you can get money, you get 30 a night if youre doing cabaret at a big party. Big money. Yeah. Big money. Very Big Money then. And maybe it was 3, i cant remember. There was a three in it somewhere. Anyhow, um, What Robert did, And what was so important, was that he moved me away from, i suppose, the Sort Of Career Path that my father was kind of thinking of me doing public school, playing sports, getting a good job as a Sort Of, you know, um, Doctor Or Manager or something like that. I met other actors And other writers, And the most important, um, meeting i had, of course, was terryjones. Um, And terry And i got on very, very well, Right. Right from The Start. And he was a marvellous performer, And very, very bRight. I was chosen in 1964 to be a part of the Oxford University revue at the edinburgh festival. Terry was in the revue as well. This completely changed my life because there i was, with a slight worry about performing in front of large audiences, performing to full houses every night. The revue was very, very popular. David frost came to see us, you know, some Talent Spotting And all that. Who would have been a massive star at the time, because he was hosting. That was the week that was. That was the week that was at that time. Yes. Were you aware that frost was in the audience . Oh, yes. Yes. I suddenly realised that there was. A possibility of my using the things i could really do fairly well, which was Sort Of tell stories, um, make people laugh, um, And, you know, act characters. Suddenly there was a little glimpse that perhaps there was a future in just writing And doing comedy. So that was why, i mean. And thats the way i went in The End. You mentioned David Frost coming to see you that night. It was probably a couple of years later that you ended up writing for David Frost on the frost report. So This is one of your first jobs in television And put you in the room with terryjones, but also withJohn Cleese And Graham Chapman as well. And Eric Idle. So how did you go from frost report, alongside your future Monty Python Team mates, to actually forming python . I mean, how was it commissioned . Cleese rang me up in. I think it would be 1969, april, something like that, And said, look, weve enjoyed. There was a series that, um, id done with Terry And David jason And Eric Idle called do not adjust your set, which was for children. Im the fantastic Eric Idle. And im the short david jason. Im the violent Michael Palin. Im the round And cuddly terryjones. John said, you know, we like what youre doing. And i said, i love what youre doing. He said, shall we get together . Lets do something thats fresh And different And new. That was the basis on which we started, which was to try And carry on the evolution, if you like, without sounding too pompous, of Television Comedy By using film cleverly, By, um, doing away with sketches that have to have a punch line. Generally shaking it all up, you know, being quite disorderly. And thats what python really was. I mean, people say, oh, it was very, very rude And disgusting And all that Sort Of thing, which it wasnt, really. It was just disorderly in terms of. Anarchic. In terms of comedy. Yeah. And we had gilliam, of course, By that time, terry gilliam. Terribly important in bringing that quality of the animation. Very sharp, very, very funny, very, very good. So we were able to experiment. How did it work in the writers room, then, with suddenly This group of people who were coming from different Comic Perspectives . Was there kind of a creative hierarchy . Um, well, the perspectives were not that different, really. Wed all played to little university audiences. Wed honed our material quite well. So there was a certain similarity there. Gilliam was a Sort Of wild card. And in the writing, it was very democratic. We would discuss silly ideas, have a morning of silly ideas, which was just great, And someone would have to write them all down. And then at The End of the Morning Youd say, well, you go And write that And ill go And write This. And wed go away And write in our separate groups. Terry. Terry And myself, um, graham And john, eric on his own. But characters were always important for you. And its interesting thinking back to the series, And also the Films Life of brian And the Holy Grail your characters are often mild mannered, theyre polite, frustrated. Were you channelling aspects of your own character into those characters, do you think . Probably. I could do them, thats all i can say. I could do shopkeepers very well, And john And i did a lot of shopkeeper material. And i could be the boring shopkeeper. Its also about affability, isnt it . Its a kind of recurring trait of so many of the characters, And that really is you. I mean, is there anybody thats got a bad word to say about Michael Palin . You are famously the nicest man in britain. Ooh grr now s the time to change that. Come on. Well, i am. What makes you angry . Well, uh, you know, lots of things make me angry. You know . But theyre tiny things, like everybody else. You know, people who drive very close behind you on the motorway, people who throw litter out of car windows, silly things like that. But, generally speaking, i find you get far more out of people. Weve got to know each other, And being responsive to other people. Mm. Its very much about giving And taking And not being the one who is The Star or has to be This or that. Did the comedy ever become competitive in the Writing Room with python . Was it fractious as well . Well, like every Bit of creative work, of course there are fractures. I mean, with terry, i didnt always agree. Um, thats not the way to produce good material. Youve got to have someone saying, thats not funny. This is. But definitely, you know, there were other things that we wrote sometimes that they. Thatjohn And graham And eric didnt like, And vice versa. That competition was very, very important. Mm. But in The End, i think we all knew if it was funny, it made people laugh, then that was probably ok. And we set our stAndards fairly high. You wouldnt think so from looking at some of the python material. Dreadful. But generally, we set our stAndards fairly high. Always look on the bRight side of Death Whistling just before you draw your terminal breath. Whistling And when it was good, it was great, And it was breaking new ground. It brings to mind. There was a late Night Discussion Show in 1979, i think, it was called friday night, saturday morning, in which you sat alongside John Cleese And had to defend the Life Of Brian Film against This. This Sort Of complaint that it was sacrilegious, led By, i think it was the bishop of Southwark And Malcolm muggeridge. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All youve done is to make a lot of people on a cross singing a music. A music hall song. Laughter i mean, its so disgusting when you think of it. If we wanted to make a joke out ofjesus, jesus would have appeared on the cross. He was an actor. He was there in the film. He does not appear on the cross. Its a gang of thieves, of common criminals who were at that time crucified in hundreds, day By day. I mean, thats. Im sorry. I know you think im wrong, but thats what i feel. Is that the closest weve come to see you riled in public, do you think . Well, people do. Are quite surprised. They said, oh, you look really angry. I said, well, i do get angry. It was because the. The two people representing, if you like, the conventional religious view, that This was a film making fun ofjesus, which of course it wasnt. But, you know, thats. They. All our protestations were dismissed, you know, because they knew, they were the people from the religious hierarchy. Theres nothing in This little squalid number that could possibly affect anybody. In that sense, i give you This point, i give you This point, that Theres Nothing in This film that could possibly destroy anybodys genuine faith. No. That i grant you. Absolutely not, because its much too tenth rate for that. But. Audience react there was a key moment, i think, in broadcasting, i dont think its too great a thing to say, when suddenly the establishment was seen to have got it wrong, And they thought theyd got it Right. Because h