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Transcripts for MSNBC The Rachel Maddow Show 20240604 01:47:00

five hours in this hearing? yeah, simply because he didn t have to, rachel. i mean, his side could have tried to meet their burden of proof and it was their burden of proof today by putting in affidavits or calling other witnesses. but remember, he is a defendant in a criminal case and so anything he says can be used against him in that case. that is pretty treacherous. it s one thing for him to answer questions from his own attorneys. that could be scripted. that could be prepped. that could be tested. it s another thing for him to answer questions on cross examination, which is precisely what happened. so if prosecutors got something valuable from his testimony today, they could use it against him in a criminal trial. that s what is surprising. that he took the stand at all when he actually didn t have to. the hearing today did not end with the judge ruling. the judge has to decide whether the case will be removed to federal court, which is what mr.

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Transcripts for MSNBC The Rachel Maddow Show 20240604 04:45:00

being here tonight. my thanks rachel. how do we know how well meadows did today? how get his cases that his trial should be moved to federal court? it is the three part supreme court test that is important. that i want to talk to you about. in order to get plucked out of state court as you described, he would have to so that he was a federal official. he was, that part is easy. that he was acting within the scope of his federal authority. that part is hard. and the third piece rachel, that he would have a federal defense of the case if it were moved from state to federal court. and at least for the state of the proceeding. its focus on number two. is he acting within the scope of his federal authority. i think that that is a hard thing for him to show. chiefs of staff do lots of things. and the chief of staff to a prison of course does lots of things. but this was a political effort

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Transcripts for MSNBC The Rachel Maddow Show 20240604 04:46:00

to thwart f fair and free election. and if mr. meadows is going to get tripped up over everything. this notion that he was acting within the scope of this federal authority. so he has a plausible claim. not a frivolous claim. but i think that the judge is going to be skeptical that he mates that second proud. to show that he was acting in the scope of his federal authority. chuck why is it that every smart lawyer in the country. looking at the news today. said that it was shocking that mark meadows decided to take the stand and testify. let alone for five hours in this hearing? simply because he did not have to. inside he had to meet the burden of proof. and it was inside there today that he was calling on affidavits. but remember he is a defendant in the criminal case. so anything he says can be used against him in that case. that is pretty treacherous.

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Transcripts for MSNBC The Rachel Maddow Show 20240604 08:31:45

Transcripts for MSNBC The Rachel Maddow Show 20240604 08:31:45
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Transcripts for MSNBC The Rachel Maddow Show 20240604 08:45:00

joining us now is chuck rosenberg former u.s. attorney, former senior fbi official. chuck, it is great to see you. thanks for being here tonight. my pleasure, rachel. what do we know about how mark meadows did today, how good his case is that his trial should be moved to federal court? yeah, so there s a three part supreme court test that s important that i want to talk to you about. in order to get plucked out of state court as you described, he would have to show that he was a federal official. he was. that part s easy. that he was acting within the scope of his federal authority. that part s hard. and the third piece, rachel, that he would have a colorable federal offense if the case were removed from state court. let s focus on number two was he

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