setting on television because they know it will get back to the president. the president does believe that giuliani is serving him well based on our reporting right now. so people don t want to cross the president, it seems, or get on the wrong side of him. but there is a real concern that giuliani and his interviews, the things that he s talking about, what he s doing in ukraine are not necessarily helpful to the president s cause. that said, there s not a lot of incentive for the president to make a change right now, right? he s got a whole team. it s not just rudy giuliani that represents the preps, he s got a whole team of people who are working with him on these other court cases that we may not be talking about too much, for example the monumenemoluments, cetera, et cetera, it s not just giuliani, but he s the most high profile and the public defender of the president s. not getting paid, giuliani said he s doing this for free. but i do think that lays out some of the dynamic the
that he proved it in the way his cellphone conversation with the president ended. how did the conversation end? i only heard ambassador sondland s side of the conversation, sir. and at the end of the conversation he said he was giving the president advice on how to deal with his situation, and he said they should have released him on your word and you can tell the kardashians you tried. you can tell the kardashians you tried. gordon sondland knows that the kardashians are very big stuff to donald trump. leading off our discussion tonight are democratic congresswoman val demings, and she has taken part in all the public impeachment hearings. also joining us joyce vance, former u.s. attorney for the northern district of alabama and msnbc legal analyst. and ron klain, former senior aid
and as the new york times writes pelosi s use of the word bribery is significant because it s suggested that democrats are increasingly working to put a name to the president s alleged wrongdoing and moving toward a more specific set of charges that could be codified in articles of impeachment in the coming weeks. leading off our discussion democratic congressman david of rhode island a member of the house judiciary committee and house foreign affairs committee. joyce vance, former u.s. attorney for the northern district of alabama. and an msnbc legal analyst. and neera tanden, former senior advisor to obama and hillary clinton. and congressman, i want to go to you on this first. the white house s argument or the republicans argument on their behalf has been that all of the witnesses who have come forward thus far are secondhand they hold
in articles of impeachment in the coming weeks. leading off our discussion democratic congressman david of rhode island a member of the house judiciary committee and house foreign affairs committee. joyce vance, former u.s. attorney for the northern district of alabama. and an msnbc legal analyst. and neera tanden, former senior advisor to obama and hillary clinton. and congressman, i want to go to you on this first. the white house s argument or the republicans argument on their behalf has been that all of the witnesses who have come forward thus far are secondhand they hold secondhand information. they didn t talk to donald trump directly, they didn t participate in the events or testify about it directly. and yet they re holding up all the direct participants and not letting them testify. does it surprise you that the response of the house committee has not been to simply subpoena and order the direct
microphone as donald trump wanted, politico published an article based on a leak that military assistance for ukraine was being held up. and then the washington post published a similar story. and as the new york times reports tonight, word of the freeze in military aid had leaked out, and congress was in an uproar. two days before the scheduled interview, the trump administration released the assistance and mr. zelensky s office quickly canceled the interview. not only had the news leaked out that donald trump was holding up assistance to ukraine, but what the trump administration already knew was that a whistle-blower complaint had been filed against the president that was a very accurate description of president trump s extortionist telephone call with president zelensky. joining our discussion now is joyce vance, a former u.s.