what do you see? well, hungary is in trouble. this is what i see first. it is diverting for a track where we entered 30 years ago, the western way of life. the generation of politicians which are characterised by fidesz, viktor orban s party, where i started my political career 32 years ago, we thought we are the party of the west. actually, orban, even 15 years ago, mentioned in a speech that fidesz party is the new western generation, and what we see today is everything but that. so that, of course, makes me very sad. and i think hungary is a trouble for hungarians, and also for europeans. yeah, the scale of the trouble that you see hungary being in is pretty obvious if one looks at the title of your new book, viktor orban, you call it, and the subversion of hungary: tainted democracy. it is pretty extraordinary
to think that, what, three decades ago you and orban were like that. you were political allies, you were co founders of this fidesz movement. well, fidesz was a fascinating party which was established in 1988 as a youth party. and it s one of the most successful party, i think, definitely in eastern europe, but maybe even in europe. and it was a liberal alternative and radical organisation. this is how we defined ourselves. yeah. it wanted to dismantle the communist system. it looked to the west for inspiration. it was all about freedom and democracy and a sense of civil society which was absolutely of the west, not of the totalitarian moscow soviet experience. yes. not only. even among the hungarian opposition party, fidesz party was a very liberal party, very pro civil society. we thought that democracy can
and he made a very radical turn then, that time. he gave a big speech saying that we can t be in opposition because the nation cannot be opposition, which. in essence, he said fidesz is the nation. he wrapped himself in the hungarian flag. exactly. and my point to you is, when you say this man over the last 13 years has subverted hungarian democracy, the immediate response has to be this is a man who has taken his message to the people on four different occasions and he has won a clear, overwhelming majority on all of those occasions. this is not a man who has tried to destroy democracy. he has used democracy. so, 0rban got to power again at 2010, as you say, after the 2008 financial crisis. so it was a very fortunate moment because hungary made very badly in the financial crisis. and he got a landslide victory, which was a genuine victory. and ever since, he changed the
and it s one of the most successful party, i think, definitely in eastern europe, but maybe even in europe. and it was a liberal alternative and radical organisation. this is how we defined ourselves. yeah. it wanted to dismantle the communist system. it looked to the west for inspiration. it was all about freedom and democracy and a sense of civil society which was absolutely of the west, not of the totalitarian moscow soviet experience. yes. not only. even among the hungarian opposition party, fidesz party was a very liberal party, very pro civil society. we thought that democracy can be born only from the bottom, and not from the top. we believed in the control of any power and in rule of law. and also, we had a historic awareness, because hungary had a history of very divisive parties during
of the west. actually, orban, even 15 years ago, mentioned in a speech that fidesz party is the new western generation, and what we see today is everything but that. so that, of course, makes me very sad. and i think hungary is a trouble for hungarians, and also for europeans. yeah, the scale of the trouble that you see hungary being in is pretty obvious if one looks at the title of your new book, viktor orban, you call it, and the subversion of hungary: tainted democracy. it is pretty extraordinary to think that, what, three decades ago you and orban were like that. you were political allies, you were co founders of this fidesz movement. well, fidesz was a fascinating party which was established in 1988 as a youth party.